So you're saying that the full OS is not included on the disc? Then explain how people install the full OS on blank hard drives they install themselves.
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Psystar to countersue Apple for antitrust violations
- Thread starter macenforcer
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So you're saying that the full OS is not included on the disc? Then explain how people install the full OS on blank hard drives they install themselves.
Screw all this talk about Apple opening up OSX to other hardware. What I really want is someone to sue Ferrari so I can finally buy that Toyota Enzo for $20,000 I've always wanted.
If these guys really cared about what was "fair" in all this, they would have been pursing actions like this from the beginning, instead of simply trying to profit off of it. Now that Apple has told them they can no longer make money off of Apple's hard work, they pull the "it's not fair to consumers" card. I hope they get there you know what's handed to them.
If these guys really cared about what was "fair" in all this, they would have been pursing actions like this from the beginning, instead of simply trying to profit off of it. Now that Apple has told them they can no longer make money off of Apple's hard work, they pull the "it's not fair to consumers" card. I hope they get there you know what's handed to them.
This isn't about what YOU do with your license of the software, this is about whether another company can profit from Apple's research and development work by hacking OS X and selling it for their own profit.
That's quite correct. My point is that Apple could ADD a standalone version for $700 (or whatever) to the existing single offering. That would address any "monopoly" concerns, and at the same time force Psystar out of the market, or to compete only with high end products. <which really wouldn't be bad-- I can see a 3rd party $3000 super gaming Mac being complementary to Apple's strategy>.
This would allow Apple to make ultra high margins on any third-parties that chose to compete, rather than having low-enders like Psystar squeezing their margins from below.
The point is, if you think their computers are overpriced, don't buy them. You don't have the right to purchase a computer running Mac OS X at the price you demand.
Actually.... no. The SLA requires a previous installation, even if there is no software check. It's a honor system based thing, but that doesn't affect the legalities of the situation. If the SLA says it can only be installed on a single Apple-labeled computer, and the SLA is found to be binding (which historically they have), then that's that.
jW
Bleem got sued out of existence for making Playstation 1 games playable on the Dreamcast 
I think I'm going to sue Microsoft because I can't play 360 games on a PS3
Some people just have the strangest notions about computers being a no holds barred war-zone. No wonder closed devices like gaming consoles and the iPhone attract developers...
I think I'm going to sue Microsoft because I can't play 360 games on a PS3
Some people just have the strangest notions about computers being a no holds barred war-zone. No wonder closed devices like gaming consoles and the iPhone attract developers...
The full version of XP is on the upgrade discs, makes it easier to do a full install without relying on old, possible corrupt files already in place.
By that token should ATI and nVidia be sued for limiting Crossfire and SLI to their own licensed hardware? Afterall, the graphics card driver themselves support all chipsets ("generic hardware" like their Apple claim) and are freely available for all chipsets, they just artificially lock SLI to nVidia chipsets and Crossfire to ATI and select Intel chipsets. nVidia claims their chipsets have special hardware to enable SLI, but I'm pretty sure the drivers have been cracked to allow SLI on non-nVidia chipsets, and ATI's Crossfire implementation doesn't require special hardware support in the chipset at all.
And why is Microsoft allowed to keep control over the games that ran on the original XBox? The original XBox was built on generic parts including an Intel Celeron and what is pretty much an expanded GeForce3 GPU. There is nothing proprietary about the original XBox's hardware. And XBox games ran on a modified graphics API that was basically DirectX 8.1. Shouldn't PayStar sue Microsoft to allow for the right to run original XBox games on third party consoles built on generic parts? Admittedly there would be a bit of work to translate some of the API calls, but it'd be no different than Wine and a lot faster since it'll be mainly converting the XBox's pseudo DX8.1 into DX8.1.
Not quite...
That's not why Microsoft got sued. They got sued because they installed IE on your Windows machine regardless of what your choice was... and ingrained it in the OS so deeply you were forced to use it... despite what most Netscape users wanted to do they were forced to use IE for system tasks and had no choice. This is anti competitive and eventually killed Netscape because people acquiesced... Packaging an OS with a hardware purchase is hardly anti competitive... you have other choices... given that you can just as easily install Linux on that same hardware...
OS X software was never branded as multi platform... Its not like you have to buy Apple... but if you buy OS X it is analogous to buying a particular part for say your bicycle. You can't sue Trek because they don't make a universal pedal or some such...
That's not why Microsoft got sued. They got sued because they installed IE on your Windows machine regardless of what your choice was... and ingrained it in the OS so deeply you were forced to use it... despite what most Netscape users wanted to do they were forced to use IE for system tasks and had no choice. This is anti competitive and eventually killed Netscape because people acquiesced... Packaging an OS with a hardware purchase is hardly anti competitive... you have other choices... given that you can just as easily install Linux on that same hardware...
OS X software was never branded as multi platform... Its not like you have to buy Apple... but if you buy OS X it is analogous to buying a particular part for say your bicycle. You can't sue Trek because they don't make a universal pedal or some such...
Except you're wrong ....
You can add a second monitor to any of the new iMacs with a $15-20 mini-DVI to VGA (or mini-DVI to DVI) adapter cable that plugs into a little port on the side of it.
I ran a 20" aluminum model this way for a while.
For that matter, any Macbook Pro can handle attaching a second display, and use the built-in LCD in tandem with it, too.
I think some of the rulings in the Microsoft case were nonsensical B.S., actually. They did a lot of questionably legal things, but the courts went after them and punished them for some of the wrong ones. (The big MS issue wasn't the IE bundling, Media Player bundling, or any of that. It was the way they strong-armed companies into only loading and offering Windows on their hardware. You can't legally make an agreement that tells someone you'll sell them your product at a nice discount, ONLY as long as they refuse to sell the competitor's offerings. For that matter, I think their attempts to violate "Right of First Sale" laws by denying people the ability to resell any OEM copies of their software, even if said copies were never opened and used, is a legal violation too.)
You can add a second monitor to any of the new iMacs with a $15-20 mini-DVI to VGA (or mini-DVI to DVI) adapter cable that plugs into a little port on the side of it.
I ran a 20" aluminum model this way for a while.
For that matter, any Macbook Pro can handle attaching a second display, and use the built-in LCD in tandem with it, too.
I think some of the rulings in the Microsoft case were nonsensical B.S., actually. They did a lot of questionably legal things, but the courts went after them and punished them for some of the wrong ones. (The big MS issue wasn't the IE bundling, Media Player bundling, or any of that. It was the way they strong-armed companies into only loading and offering Windows on their hardware. You can't legally make an agreement that tells someone you'll sell them your product at a nice discount, ONLY as long as they refuse to sell the competitor's offerings. For that matter, I think their attempts to violate "Right of First Sale" laws by denying people the ability to resell any OEM copies of their software, even if said copies were never opened and used, is a legal violation too.)
And on top of that, the controllers were found to be USB (with a different connector). On the 360, they gave up and made them straight USB.
Welcome to the world of being popular Apple, hope you enjoy your new surroundings, Microsoft is just around the corner on the left and they will happily get you up to speed on the problems you can look forward to experiencing now that you are no longer just for a small group of consumers.
I totally disagree that OS X on third-party equipment will cannibalize hardware sales for Apple. I know so many people who buy Macs just for their hardware, not for OS X. I even know one person who bought a MacBook Pro, and wiped OS X off it: he only has Vista on it. I know another person who installed Linux on it, and wiped OS X off it.
The fact is, Apple hardware sells itself.
The fact is, Apple hardware sells itself.
wait a second. Companies are able to grant exclusivity to their software to toher companies hardware but not their own?
If this is the case. Then Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo should be getting sued. As they publish games made for consoles they come up with. Some being sequals. Just like the different versions of OS X are different version/updates.
Also, Microsoft doesn't have a line of computers, do they?
And by this logic we should also have a lawsuit against apple for the iPhone OS. As people have had to pay for Major updates for the iPod Touch.
If this is the case. Then Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo should be getting sued. As they publish games made for consoles they come up with. Some being sequals. Just like the different versions of OS X are different version/updates.
Also, Microsoft doesn't have a line of computers, do they?
And by this logic we should also have a lawsuit against apple for the iPhone OS. As people have had to pay for Major updates for the iPod Touch.
Legally you are not buying software. You are buying media and you are licensing the use of that software per your agreement with the manufacturer. You don't actually own anything except the media.
If you don't agree with this, then don't check the "I agree" box. Your software won't load, and you should be able to get the refund. If you do check the "I agree" box, one can reasonably assume you "agree". Right?
Or do you usually agree to contracts with the intent to break them?
I have no problem with people making hackintoshes for their own personal use. I have an issue with companies like Pystar making money off of Apple's product. Even if they were to win one court case, Apple would drag it out until Pystar went bankrupt, and would have to give in. I don;t think that any companies (Dell, HP, Toshiba, Lenovo, etc.) should be allowed to include OS X on there computers, because they ridiculed Apple 10 years ago saying that it had no chance to come back.
Don
Thanks for presuming I was saying Apple's installs aren't upgrades.
The point I was trying to make was Apple consciously puts no check in place to establish a previous owner. Of course they're all upgrades - there's no such thing as a Mac that shipped without an installed OS - but it's just interesting to note that Apple choses to create their installers without any sort of previous install check.
You could argue that this is because any Mac already came with the OS, but as threads like this point out, that's not always what these discs are used for and I'm sure Apple is aware of that...
How do you install another browser without first having a browser already installed to go get the other one?
Adding to this, if you read the OS X SLA, if you do not agree to the terms you can return the software for refund. If that software came installed on a Mac, then you have to return both.
I guess that means they are one product, eh?
Psystar are a pathetic company and should go out and earn some money without having to resort to ripping off other people's work or by sueing people. Antitrust? I think not. You can choose to install all kinds of operating systems. The big Microsoft antitrust case was about them forcing IE onto people, not because they didn't make versions of IE for all the other operating systems under the sun!! Besides which, it was the government sueing them, not some mangy little criminal company trying to make a quick buck.
I hope Apple use some very expensive lawyers and Psystar end up having to pay their legal fees.
I hope Apple use some very expensive lawyers and Psystar end up having to pay their legal fees.
Yea, bakeries should sell you bread but only allow you to toast it if you buy their toaster.
The countersuit is just a way for Pystar to get some money from all of this. The lawyer was probably signed on contingency basis and will cost nothing to Pystar unless they win. I wouldn't make to much about this countersuit.
BTW, there is no way that anyone could practically argue that Apple has a monopoly in OS. If anything, one could argue about the bundling between iTunes and iPod. However, iTunes is free and available on both OSX and Windows. I see this suit going nowhere.
BTW, there is no way that anyone could practically argue that Apple has a monopoly in OS. If anything, one could argue about the bundling between iTunes and iPod. However, iTunes is free and available on both OSX and Windows. I see this suit going nowhere.
The problem is that it's applied to to individual consumers as well. If Apple wants this to go away, they can start selling licenses for OSX to people like Psystar.
They can charge $1000 if they want, for all I care.
So as far as you are concerned, it is ok for YOU to break the same license agreement (that you agree to by using the product) that you want Psystar to be bankrupt over. *sniff sniff* I smell some double standards in the house.
Sorry, either everyone has to agree to it or no one is obliged to agree to it.