iPad Pro Q: What’s a Computer?

[Bustermd]

Computer nerds that frequent internet forms define "Pro" and "Computers" and "Pro Computers" as stuff they need to do the stuff they do. Or the stuff they want to think they need to do the stuff they do. Usually there is a hefty dose of the No True Scotsman faulty logic in their reasoning.

Meanwhile actual professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers) and people that run multi million and billion dollar business could care less as they see a "computer" as a tool to accomplish a job. Some computers come in different form factors (smartphone, tablet, desktop, or laptop) and thats OK because again its a tool to accomplish a job, not a lifestyle accessory.

 

[The Apple Bitch]

Is this discussion really happening?

Perchance.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Computer nerds that frequent internet forms define "Pro" and "Computers" and "Pro Computers" as stuff they need to do the stuff they do. Or the stuff they want to think they need to do the stuff they do. Usually there is a hefty dose of the No True Scotsman faulty logic in their reasoning.

Meanwhile actual professionals (doctors, lawyers, engineers) and people that run multi million and billion dollar business could care less as they see a "computer" as a tool to accomplish a job. Some computers come in different form factors (smartphone, tablet, desktop, or laptop) and thats OK because again its a tool to accomplish a job, not a lifestyle accessory.

There are folks who bought/buy iPad Pro with FOMo, and an expectation Apple is magically gonna announce Mac OS on iPad at WWDC. This has been going on for almost a decade. Sooner or later, the reality and regret takeover the rationality.

 

[kc9hzn]

Excel peaked 20-25 years ago. In this age of data science lot of companies are moving away from excel. No one wants data in silos, except for nice applications. Recently I worked with a large lender with spreadsheets calculating values, adjustments, interest rates, and other calculations. It was a nightmare, how these guys were working all these days, when you can have API integrations to automate most of the data collection, analysis, and risk decisions.
Excel on Mac wouldn’t do what these guys were doing. Accounting, investment banking firms are well on their way to move out of spreadsheet and manual work.

No kidding re: finance and whatnot moving away from Excel. Excel only runs on one person’s PC. So much of what large firms are doing anymore can only be done with distributed computing tools (like NoSQL databases) and programming languages. Increasingly, what you might’ve done with an Excel macro back in the day is now being done using Python and Pandas or Python and PySpark (and I should know, that’s basically my day job these days).

 

[shadowboi]

That’s exactly what I am saying: Apple’s overuse of “Pro” is really going wild. One can do “Pro” work even on dirt cheap 10.9 iPad and earn money for that work. Same with iPhones, SE can do 95% of what “Pro” or “Pro Max” can. Back in the days there was ONE iPhone, ONE iPad, ONE iMac. Now they are even thinking to bring “iPhone Slim” to the party🤦‍♂️

Right now “Pro” branding feels like some elitist kind of badge Apple introduced for people who love to flex in a company of friends. No one will notice SE but everyone will stare at tripple (double) camera setup (who really uses ultrawide?) and maybe even ask “ohh, is that new iPhone 15 Pro?”

 

[ginkobiloba]

People don’t need massive power for spreadsheets, notes, and surfing the web. They need power for video editing, photo editing, rendering, compiling, etc. This has become synonymous with the moniker “pro”, not using it for something you’re getting paid for.

Yes, this.
i don’t think anyone is saying iPads are not computers, of course they are, just like my Apple Watch is too. It’s just that the OS and the hardware has some limitations compared to Macs, that keeps them from being really useful for some intensily computational tasks, for some applications.
my Mac is connected to 7 external HDs , a thunderbolt audioDSP interface, a bunch of USB devices ( like a mixing control surface , etc) . I have over 100 plugins running in Logic… I wish all this could be replaced by just an iPad that i could throw in a bag without anything else but a pair of headphones, but it’s not gonna happen anytime soon it seems.
As for 3D rendering and compositing wich i do as well, i gave up on the Mac a while ago and use PCs with Nvidia cards for that, although a MacStudio with an M4 Ultra could sway me back.

Usually, a computing device that can do the above , can also do accounting and spreadsheets, while the opposite isn’t always true.

 

[Analog Kid]

I used a CRAY that fit that bill and it was certainly a computer.

You thought so, but it wasn't. It didn't run Xcode, so you can't call it a computer...

 

[NastyMatt]

Excel peaked 20-25 years ago. In this age of data science lot of companies are moving away from excel. No one wants data in silos, except for nice applications. Recently I worked with a large lender with spreadsheets calculating values, adjustments, interest rates, and other calculations. It was a nightmare, how these guys were working all these days, when you can have API integrations to automate most of the data collection, analysis, and risk decisions.
Excel on Mac wouldn’t do what these guys were doing. Accounting, investment banking firms are well on their way to move out of spreadsheet and manual work.

Agreed.

Stuff I was doing back in the mid 2000’s in banking still cannot be done on a Mac (must be on a Microsoft machine). Nothing to do with Apple - just MS restricting functionality. I still consider a Mac a computer and have never been on the Mac forum complaining.

 

[Timpetus]

i feel you’re pain, but for the most part those people narrowly define a Computer to be what they wish it was, so that they can criticize Apple for not delivering. you aren’t going to get them to be logical.

The flip side of this is people so determined to defend every single design decision made by Apple that they treat the iPad as completely devoid of flaws, and take any suggestions for improvement (including making it more useful for professional use) as a personal attack.

 

[The Apple Bitch]

Replying to this thread ⬆️

iPads are tools, classified as digital computers. They can be used for a variety of things. From entertainment to work and beyond.

Some are labeled with "Pro" while others aren't. What that means is that one is more professional than another. As in heavier equipped, not that the work that can be accomplished varies in quality between the models.

 

[TechnoMonk]

That’s exactly what I am saying: Apple’s overuse of “Pro” is really going wild. One can do “Pro” work even on dirt cheap 10.9 iPad and earn money for that work. Same with iPhones, SE can do 95% of what “Pro” or “Pro Max” can. Back in the days there was ONE iPhone, ONE iPad, ONE iMac. Now they are even thinking to bring “iPhone Slim” to the party🤦‍♂️

Right now “Pro” branding feels like some elitist kind of badge Apple introduced for people who love to flex in a company of friends. No one will notice SE but everyone will stare at tripple (double) camera setup (who really uses ultrawide?) and maybe even ask “ohh, is that new iPhone 15 Pro?”

This is silly, literally almost all companies have something like pro to differentiate products with in a category. Nokia used/s Pro for phones and their headphones, so does microsoft and others. car makers are notorious for using Pro or limited edition. Toyota pushes TRDPro, doesn’t mean non Pro tundra can’t tow or use the space.
Apple iPad revenue dropped from 32 Billion to 18 Billion by 2018. After they revamped Pro line, revenue is howering around 28-31B. If Apple had one model, iPad probably would be 5 B a year product line.

 

[nathansz]

Not sure what point you are trying to make

An ipad is certainly a kind of computer

One could make the case that it is a less useful computer than a Mac (for now) or many other sorts of computers because of how locked down the firmware and software is

If an ipad could run macos (or Linux, or bsd, or windows, or what have you) it would be a computer like any “traditional” “desktop” computer

It’s the artificial lockdown that makes it less of a computer

 

[Analog Kid]

The flip side of this is people so determined to defend every single design decision made by Apple that they treat the iPad as completely devoid of flaws, and take any suggestions for improvement (including making it more useful for professional use) as a personal attack.

Who does this? Is it possible that you are aggregating many people into some composite fanboi and viewing any disagreement with your particular suggestions, versus the suggestion that things could be improved in general, as some form of attack on your personal preferences?

 

[aParkerMusic]

He didn't add a notch, he subtracted wasted bezel space which the menu bar lives in now, giving more room.

THANK YOU!

 

[iPadified]

The flip side of this is people so determined to defend every single design decision made by Apple that they treat the iPad as completely devoid of flaws, and take any suggestions for improvement (including making it more useful for professional use) as a personal attack.

It is about the philosophy and what user groups and professions iPad should be serving and I think Apple is making the correct decisions about the user segmentation. Sure, make iPadOS better but do not forget the iPad user group needs. As usual, those who must use MacOS have very good computers to chose between so why the need destroy the iPad core philosophy?

 

[Richu]

A: An electronic computational* device that helps you get your work done. This includes iPad.

From johnsonwax on arstechnica.com forum: (emphasis mine)
“Why should drawing/painting or music or other thing that iPad is actually quite capable at be an exception? Apple has historically treated these as core pro markets. FFS, look at the first party apps Apple sells?

I used my 13" iPad Pro as a go-to interface for accessing technical print-ready reports. Sufficiently close in aspect and dimension to a standard sheet of paper so everything is legible without zooming so I could hand it to someone without a problem, and I could grab any of the thousands of reports I generated in my career without having to haul binders into meetings. And it was trivial to throw those up on a projector or into a zoom call if needed. Isn't that pro work? I was paid for it. It dramatically improved productivity.

Every single home inspector or general contractor or appraiser that has come in my house in the last 8 years or so had an iPad in their hand. Notes, quotes, measurements, all in their hand. When we had an addition the foreman carried the plans on an iPad. Isn't that pro work?

I swear, according to [the geek] community the only pro work is command line docker deployments of mission critical software. Everyone else can **** straight off, I guess.”

*Yes, I know I used the term being defined in the definition, but this is to prevent people from making comments like “So, a power drill is a computer, then?”

The question itself seems pretty meaningless.

It’s just taxonomy. People get what they need.

At most taxonomy has a marginal impact on marketing, but the companies will spin things how they want regardless of some dictionary of an arbitrary institution.

 

[shadowboi]

literally almost all companies have something like pro

Yeah this is why it is bad, cycle needs to break somewhere. Apple used to be trend setter, not follower.

I guess their fragmentation strategy is to cover as many potential buyers as possible, but when the price difference between “pro” and “non” pro is JUST 100-200$ it looks silly.

 

[autistic-savant]

👻

 

[Pakaku]

I can't use an iPad to do things like run my own apps, crack the OS open with the Terminal, run my own OS (assuming any CPU compatibility is even possible, and it definitely is possible for regular computers and former intel Macs) or even diagnose an iPhone or another iPad. So no, it's not a proper computer, it's still just a device, and being able to do your job on a device doesn't magically make it a computer.

 

[JamesMay82]

The real question is What can the iPad do that a Mac can’t and the answer is nothing.

The iPad can do certain things but never as elegantly or smoothly and for that reason it’s why I now just use it as mainly consumption device and a companion device as you need a Mac to load on music for example.

The wins it has over the Mac for me are it’s more robust and it is easier to look at construction drawings onsite but not much else outside of that. File management and excel are simply awful.

 

[ericwn]

A computer is what you need for this situation (another iPad won't do)...

View attachment 2383810

Another type of computer you mean.

 

[sparksd]

I can't use an iPad to do things like run my own apps, crack the OS open with the Terminal, run my own OS (assuming any CPU compatibility is even possible, and it definitely is possible for regular computers and former intel Macs) or even diagnose an iPhone or another iPad. So no, it's not a proper computer, it's still just a device, and being able to do your job on a device doesn't magically make it a computer.

It is a computer. Not being able to do your job on a device doesn't magically not make it a computer.

 

[NastyMatt]

I think we should close this thread, it's just a magnet for trolls.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

The real question you should be asking, is why you iPad enthusiasts are so excited about not being able to use the market-leading hardware that sits inside your iPads?

Why are you excited about a $999+ fully fledged computer that only has a single(Thunderbolt) I/O port?

Why don't you run apps that benefit from or need more than 16GBs of RAM?

Why do you want a computer that has enough power to run the desktop version of Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro, but forces you to get a subscription-only versions of these, that won't even bounce/export/run in the background if you multitask and switch to another app window?

Why don't you want to run all the plugins for Final Cut and Logic that you bought for your Mac on your iPad?

Why don't you need a computer that lets you use the full suite of Adobe CC apps but limits you to much less capable iPad versions?

Why don't you need better file management than what iPadOS offers?

Why don't you need to run Xcode?

Why don't you need full, app-specific key commands, but are fine with the limited or completely absent ones found in most iPad apps?

Why don't you need to run any and every kind of third-party app but are fine with the limited selection of apps found on the iPad App Store?

The answer is that your needs in a computer are very limited and fit exactly into the box that Apple has put iPad in and won't let take out of.

I'm not pointing fingers at you. None of us can or should tell each other what we should want or need.

But this goes the other way too -You all know very well of the myriads of apps, plugins, hardware, use cases, etc. that are not possible on iPad and shouldn't argue that we can all swap our desktops and laptops for an iPad Pro.

It does not matter what exact words or verbal definitions we use for iPads and Macs, respectively. Discussing what the word "computer" means is semantics and futile.

TLDR:
The fact that I can install and run anything I want on a Mac but not on an iPad is inarguable and also precisely where the key difference between the two lies.

It's not about the meta-level of iPad vs. Mac, the semantics of the word "computer" compared to "tablet". From that perspective, they are equally capable, both Apple Silicon computers.

It's about the exact specifics of all the big and small things that Apple blocks the user from doing on iPadOS while not providing a valid alternative that's optimized for iPad and equally capable to the Mac version. All while the same restrictions and limitations are nowhere to be found in macOS.

You getting your needs met in an iPad doesn't mean that others don't need a whole lot more, like a Mac.

*Don't @ me about how desktop/laptop apps aren't optimized for touch or Pencil and thus would suck or break the UI design dogma of iPadOS. That's obviously true.

But you don't get the same features and functionalities on iPad versions of "pro" desktop apps, if you even get any version of the app at all.

And on that note, I bet we wouldn't even been having this discussion if it weren't for Apple's many, all too expensive App Store fees, as every third party dev would happily make great iPad versions of their best apps, with no compromises.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Yeah this is why it is bad, cycle needs to break somewhere. Apple used to be trend setter, not follower.

I guess their fragmentation strategy is to cover as many potential buyers as possible, but when the price difference between “pro” and “non” pro is JUST 100-200$ it looks silly.

It’s called choice, and it’s a good thing. It’s no different than what Apple did with iPods, or Macs when Steve came back.