MP 7,1 Radeon Pro W5700X and the Mac Pro

[Coyote2006]

He wrote me in an email:

“I had the 5700 XT installed along with the Vega II Duo when it caused a crash at wakeup.

I have not tried running with the Pro Vega II Duo removed and the 5700 XT as the only GPU — mainly because it has no EFI with Apple Startup and Boot screens. I only use it as an secondary GPU — and only for measuring its performance compared to other GPUs.”

Thanks a lot.

So the only solution is going with the 580 MPX and plug it into another display for boot screen and use the 5700 for the main working screen (or the other way round if you use a TB3 display and your software can be selected to a decent GPU that's not even hooked up to a monitor).

And hope that Apple finally provides drivers that work at least the few AMD GPUs on the market.

 

[chfilm]

Thanks a lot.

So the only solution is going with the 580 MPX and plug it into another display for boot screen and use the 5700 for the main working screen (or the other way round if you use a TB3 display and your software can be selected to a decent GPU that's not even hooked up to a monitor).

And hope that Apple finally provides drivers that work at least the few AMD GPUs on the market.

Not sure, he also wrote me this few days ago:

“
Last night I removed the Pro Vega II Duo MPX and fired up the 2019 Mac Pro with only a Radeon VII installed.

I got an Apple Startup screen!

This morning I tried the Radeon RX 5700 XT.

Apple Startup screen again.

A Twitter follower responded with, “Apple’s firmware now supports UEFI graphics cards.”

It may also have to do with the similarities between the VII and Vega II as well as the similarities between the RX 5700 XT and the soon-to-be-released Apple W5700X MPX.”

 

[bsbeamer]

“Apple’s firmware now supports UEFI graphics cards.”

This has NOT been 100% confirmed yet. There's a UEFI validation test @tsialex had me attempt with MBP16,1 but the software/application was not compatible. Kept getting stuck and would not complete the test.

Overview

The Value of the Linux UEFI Validation Project (LUV) This "Linux-readiness" distribution provides a new level of support to developers identifying firmware implementation issues. Bringing together multiple separate upstream test suites into a cohesive and easy-to-use product with a unified...

01.org

 

[tsialex]

This has NOT been 100% confirmed yet. There's a UEFI validation test @tsialex had me attempt with MBP16,1 but the software/application was not compatible. Kept getting stuck and would not complete the test.

Overview

The Value of the Linux UEFI Validation Project (LUV) This "Linux-readiness" distribution provides a new level of support to developers identifying firmware implementation issues. Bringing together multiple separate upstream test suites into a cohesive and easy-to-use product with a unified...

01.org

Seems people are mixing things here, pre-boot configuration support and full UEFI support are different things. GOP support is enough for pre-boot configuration/boot screens and seems that since the Catalina firmware upgrades for Mac mini 2018 and the Mac Pro 2019 initial firmware, both are working fine with cards that fully support GOP - we have reports that at least some Asus cards are not totally GOP compliant and don’t work, but most recent GPUs will work fine.

Full UEFI compliance seems not to be an Apple goal, T2 appears to get in the way.

 

[profdraper]

Personally am awaiting with interest the arrival of the Navi 21 24GB RX 5950 XT; I have found Vega II 32GB performance to be underwhelming in comparison to (say) the 11GB RTX 2080 Ti running in my Dell T7910 workstation (rendering in DaVinci Resolve Studio). Maybe mid-year release? And then waiting to see how long it takes for Apple to do drivers & support etc.

AMD Radeon RX 5950 XT Specs

AMD Navi 21, 1670 MHz, 5120 Cores, 320 TMUs, 96 ROPs, 24576 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 384 bit

www.techpowerup.com

AMD Radeon RX 5950 XT spotted again – is the ‘Nvidia killer’ coming sooner than we think?

GPU turns up in another EEC filing – but we need to be cautious about this rumor

www.techradar.com

 

[impulse462]

Looking forward to it, but can't help but to think it might be a bad mistake because of Big Navi's launch being imminent w/ Ray-tracing & Deep-learning cores (my workflows involve deep-learning & real-time rendering) later this year.

Ordered my Mac Pro w/ the 580X base GPU deliberately to upgrade it having 16 cores, 128-192GB Ram upgrade upcoming (32GB deliberately ordered to upgrade manually as well), & 4TB SSD.

It's frustrating I can't put one of my two 2080TI RTX cards or Quadro cards for such purposes. Nvidia & Apple need to kiss & make up already!

what software are you using for deep learning w/ AMD GPUs? ROCm?

agree w/ your points on nvidia and apple. you consider installing ubuntu (or another linux distro) on the pro?

 

[straightMacin]

Anyone have a clue when this card will be released? I'm itching to get my hands on one!

 

[bsbeamer]

Keep an eye on the 10.15.4 betas/release at this point. Not a lot of improvement for AMD 5XXX drivers in 10.15.3 in early reports. Will test personally next week. Apple really should not release the W5700X without addressing, but they did release MBP16,1 “as-is” and attempt to improve later...

 

[HWPro]

Also waiting for release of W5700X..seems like an interesting option IF the price isn't too high. IF the RX5700 XT gains full support in 10.15.4 then that may be a better option in the mid-range, multi-purpose GPU's. They are the same card accept for updated 16GB GDDR6 vs 8GB GDDR6 (RX 5700 and W5700)...which is just overhead depending on the workflow. It's odd to me that AMD releases one "version" of this RDNA platform for Gaming then 4 months later releases a "workstation" card with slightly less spec's but seemingly aimed at similar performance with less total power draw as the only benefit...which in the Mac Pro won't matter. If you can afford 3 Pro XDR displays then the choice is already made for you. I can't find any spec on whether or not the W5700X improves on compute units, stream processors, or FP32 performance compared to the W5700.

I'm sitting on some AMD GPU's (WX9100, Radeon VII, RX5700 XT) and am expecting my Mac Pro this week so I can start testing-wish I had 3 XDR displays It's hopeful that right now the Radeon VII I kept will be the best option...it's the same Vega architecture so I assumed it would boot up out-of-box (?) and as stated before the W5700X and RX5700 XT are essentially one in the same-so I hoped that 10.15.3 added updated RDNA support. I guess we'll see....it's worth noting that the VII outperforms the WX9100 in almost everything, while maintaining being a "Gaming" card that was half the cost at time of release....SEE THIS

The VII seems discontinued for now which is too bad. I know it runs hot too (experience from an AMD PC build I did) and cooling was always a factor for it in PC's...wanted to also try and benchmark temperatures in the Mac Pro around the VII as well to see how the Mac Pro favor's vs my custom NZXT case-build I had the VII in originally.

I'll try and post updates as I'm able to do these kind of things-one card at a time and maybe link to Youtube but work bench isn't conducive to good video

 

[bsbeamer]

Personally have found no improvement for AMD 5500M (MBP16,1) and RX 5700 XT (eGPU) drivers in 10.15.3 in all testing so far, especially with METAL. It's really frustrating to have the issues with the 5500M since it's a native dGPU on a brand new machine. I've reported all bugs to Apple and none have been responded to.

One client's office is getting really antsy on the wait for W5700X. They're configuring other options and generally do not seem "impressed" with lower-end configs for MP7,1 for "value" vs. other workstations or even some iMac configs. W5700X pricing will determine a lot for their needs. Keep trying to remind them the macOS drivers may still need 1-2+ versions to mature after release, which likely would be after NAB 2020 (April). I'm betting they pickup more iMacs.

So much promise, but it really seems like it's the same old Apple when it comes to professional needs.

 

[CMMChris]

I am reporting bugs to Apple regarding the 5700 XT since day one beta support and also never got any feedback from them. I will now ditch the card. There are better ways to waste my time.

 

[1147402]

It's too bad that there's no release date regarding the W5700X whatsoever since Dec. I'm holding the purchase simply because R580X is hard to sell and MPX module for W5700X probably would take forever to be available as standalone for purchase just like those Vega II MPX modules.

 

[bsbeamer]

Found this filing for W5700X with KCC (Korean Communications Commission). Would guess similar applications with FCC around the same time. I would guess initial BTO orders would be available in mid/late February.

-----

RR-APL-A2322
Device: AMD Radeon Pro W5700X - A2322
Manufactured by Apple Inc.

Application Number: 202017210000008963
Company: Apple Korea Limited
Device Name: AMD Radeon Pro W5700X
Model: A2322

Authorization Number: RR-APL-A2322
Alphanumeric Authorization Number: RRAPLA2322
Manufacturer: Apple Inc.
Country: China
Date of Application: 2020-01-07

 

[straightMacin]

Great news! Here's to hoping they have the MPX module for sale along with the BTO options! ?

 

[lilkwarrior]

what software are you using for deep learning w/ AMD GPUs? ROCm?

agree w/ your points on nvidia and apple. you consider installing ubuntu (or another linux distro) on the pro?

Yeah the ROCm editions of Tensorflow & so on; technically I'm using the tensor-cores implicitly for apps such as Octane, C4D w/ Arnold, Adobe Dimensions, Blender, & so on.

I haven't considered installing Ubuntu on my Mac Pro; I have a far powerful PC w/ RTX cards I prefer to use Ubuntu on (I have a todo to dabble w/ DaVinci Resolve on Linux to compare perf to the Windows version & so on to consider Ubuntu for work more seriously)
[automerge]1580985242[/automerge]

It's too bad that there's no release date regarding the W5700X whatsoever since Dec. I'm holding the purchase simply because R580X is hard to sell and MPX module for W5700X probably would take forever to be available as standalone for purchase just like those Vega II MPX modules.

What's your thoughts on the fact Big Navi is coming w/ ray-tracing definitievely this year as soon as this March (doubtful; Summer makes more sense)?

 

[VJNeumann]

What's your thoughts on the fact Big Navi is coming w/ ray-tracing definitievely this year as soon as this March (doubtful; Summer makes more sense)?

Indeed. Equally to curious to see if Arnold GPU rendering will announce support for AMD (and by inference Mac) once they release Big Navi.

 

[1147402]

What's your thoughts on the fact Big Navi is coming w/ ray-tracing definitievely this year as soon as this March (doubtful; Summer makes more sense)?

I might be able to get a 3rd party 5800/5900/5950 later on if needed as long as I can have something better than 580X as MPX when I purchase the MP.

It might be a long long wait before we see Apple releasing the W5800X or W5900X by the current speed, but I could be wrong. Maybe they just wanted to wait until they can have all 3 listed lol. And to have standalone MPX module actually purchasable on Apple Store? Probably right before MP 8,1 was announced.

 

[Peterjuulk]

Newbie question: I'm in Audio, so really no need for fancy or fast video rendering - BUT - I do need at least support for these 4 monitors:

• 1 LG 5k (LG 34WK95 - TB3)
• 1 4k Panasonic TV (HDMI)
• 2 Dell HD 19020x1080 monitors (HDMI or DP)

As far as I can make out, the MP base model graphic card will NOT run all these four monitors. So we too are waiting for the W5700X which I think can - and we also gain 4 TB port on my system!

BUT (and here comes the question!) the wait is starting to get a little long in the tooth. SO can I instead of waiting, just use the base model card, and plug in another card that we have already (Sapphire RX 580) and us that AS WELL - gaining the extra outputs we need?

I know this has a lot of disadvantages (like taking up more space inside the MP and loosing the TB ports) but will it work? Advantage: Less expensive and we can the BTO order in at apple now, and the MP sooner, rather than later.

Any help is Kindly appreciated!

 

[thexash]

I think that should work, I put an Asus RX580 in my MacPro - alongside the existing MPX 580 - and it worked fine for another display. That being said it was a short test to see if/how it worked, I haven’t actually tested four displays, but the MPX should do 2 and your extra card 2 without issue. You can probably do up to 3/4 per GPU depending on target resolutions...

The main issue I have with those thirdparty GPUs is that they are certainly not silent when in use... but then spending 3-4K on a equivalent silent version from Apple is not a great choice either, if you dont have a need for the memory on those.

 

[Coyote2006]

I think that should work, I put an Asus RX580 in my MacPro - alongside the existing MPX 580 - and it worked fine for another display. That being said it was a short test to see if/how it worked, I haven’t actually tested four displays, but the MPX should do 2 and your extra card 2 without issue. You can probably do up to 3/4 per GPU depending on target resolutions...

The main issue I have with those thirdparty GPUs is that they are certainly not silent when in use... but then spending 3-4K on a equivalent silent version from Apple is not a great choice either, if you dont have a need for the memory on those.

How is the Fan noise of the additional 580?

 

[thexash]

How is the Fan noise of the additional 580?

Its clearly audible if you use the GPU (3d games/apps). The Asus I have switch off the fans entirely at low usage so it can be silent, but that's if only you do only basic UI usage, from what I recall even playing a 1080p/4k video on youtube spins the fans, which you can then hear. They are not super loud, but I really prefer entirely silent...

I removed it from my Mac since I have no need for it, I mainly wanted to make sure that it survived sleep, didnt crash the computer etc... to check whether buying a 3rd party 5700XT / big navi is viable option in the future. All those things seemed to work fine, so I would say that its a fairly reasonable option.

 

[erroneous]

Newbie question: I'm in Audio, so really no need for fancy or fast video rendering - BUT - I do need at least support for these 4 monitors:

• 1 LG 5k (LG 34WK95 - TB3)
• 1 4k Panasonic TV (HDMI)
• 2 Dell HD 19020x1080 monitors (HDMI or DP)

As far as I can make out, the MP base model graphic card will NOT run all these four monitors. So we too are waiting for the W5700X which I think can - and we also gain 4 TB port on my system!

BUT (and here comes the question!) the wait is starting to get a little long in the tooth. SO can I instead of waiting, just use the base model card, and plug in another card that we have already (Sapphire RX 580) and us that AS WELL - gaining the extra outputs we need?

I know this has a lot of disadvantages (like taking up more space inside the MP and loosing the TB ports) but will it work? Advantage: Less expensive and we can the BTO order in at apple now, and the MP sooner, rather than later.

Any help is Kindly appreciated!

I think the middle case in the Apple 580x MPX documentation (link below) fits your case: 2x5k via top and back TB3, 2x4k HDMI direct from the 580x. Guess you’ll need an extra usb-c->dp/HDMI adaptor, but feels like you might be okay with just the standard card.

Use the Radeon Pro 580X MPX Module with your Mac Pro (2019) – Apple Support (UK)

Find out about the many different display setups you can use with your MPX Module on your Mac Pro (2019).

support.apple.com

 

[deconstruct60]

Indeed. Equally to curious to see if Arnold GPU rendering will announce support for AMD (and by inference Mac) once they release Big Navi.

Just because of AMD doesn't necessarily comes for "free" for Macs. For example the Nvidia Optix denoiser that has integration with Arnold is enabled at the interface between those to pieces of software. More than likely Apple's Metal is going to get injected into the picture on macOS and AMD doesn't fully control Metal deployment or features.

AMD would need another interface ( or layered blend of interfaces ) for Windows and Linux. And how many Arnold ports permutations are the owners going to support?

 

[deconstruct60]

Newbie question: I'm in Audio, so really no need for fancy or fast video rendering - BUT - I do need at least support for these 4 monitors:

• 1 LG 5k (LG 34WK95 - TB3)
• 1 4k Panasonic TV (HDMI)
• 2 Dell HD 19020x1080 monitors (HDMI or DP)

As far as I can make out, the MP base model graphic card will NOT run all these four monitors. So we too are waiting for the W5700X which I think can - and we also gain 4 TB port on my system!
...

The W5700X is a bit of just a "ballon squeeze" compared to the 580X. There are four ports on the back of the card but there are less DP streams being feed into the system (so the top+back ports on the Mac Pro (as opposed to direct card edge) run less "full size" 5K+ monitors.

The LG 5K above is a 5K2K which probably doesn't require two Disport Streams ( so in the Apple docs it is closer to what Apple is labeling a "4K monitor" on a single DPv1.2 stream. 5K and XDR are really about double DP v1.2-1.4 streams. The single stream monitors fall into "4K" as long as don't have bandwidth requirements over a single stream. )

580X can run all four of those.
580X edge 4K TV (HDMI ) , Dell 1080 (HDMI)

Apple I/O card (on back) LG 5k (TB cable), Dell 1080 ( type C to DP cable )

5700X can fit all four on the card edge.
4k TV ( HDMI )
Dell 1080 ( TB bus 0 port 2 with Type C to DP cable )
Dell 1080 ( TB bus 1 port 1 Type C to DP cable )
LG 5K2K ( TB bus 1 port 2 TB3 cable ). [ ** a full 5K monitor wouldn't work here with a monitor on bus 1 port 1. ]

it is "neater" and closer to old school video care set ups, but it isn't more of these sub 5K monitors.

 

[straightMacin]

What would the system-fed DP stream pipeline look like with a Vega II and W5700X in the same machine?