Reasons why I think there will be a refresh in June...

[vader_slri]

LOL. I look forward to every revision and order the moment they're available. Money for my mac addiction is thankfully not a concern

I've been hanging around the MacBook Air forum long enough to say that other members here who are lending their experienced opinions on MBA updates are also looking very forward to and buy updates when they're released.

You're not likely to find conservative spenders in the MBA forum, nice try though but it won't distract MBA owners offering their advice to people considering buying a new Air.

I think your perspective is couched in the past when the MBA was a niche product because of its high price tag. That was a major barrier to adoption and why the previous MBA was primarily the domain of the big spenders.

Fast forward to today when the entry level 11" MBA is now the most affordable Mac notebook (tied with the Macbook). The MBA market has exploded simply because of the relatively low price tag as evidenced by brisk sales in the last quarter. Apple has totally repositioned the MBA in their lineup. It is more of a mainstream model now and is well within the range of "conservative" spenders. So, I would say that the demographics of MBA owners has changed dramatically with the current revision, which is part of the point that Alexandero was making.

 

[vader_slri]

I bought AFTER making considerations. Plenty have done so.

And that was the right decision for you since you needed a computer at that time and the MBA fulfilled your needs. No one is disputing your choice. However, what seems strange is that so many owners vehemently oppose a Sandy Bridge update. I just don't understand that mentality. The appearance of a Sandy Bridge update will not make your C2D MBA suddenly useless. You will continue to enjoy the experience that you already know and appreciate. Why the hate for Sandy Bridge?

 

[KPOM]

And that was the right decision for you since you needed a computer at that time and the MBA fulfilled your needs. No one is disputing your choice. However, what seems strange is that so many owners vehemently oppose a Sandy Bridge update. I just don't understand that mentality. The appearance of a Sandy Bridge update will not make your C2D MBA suddenly useless. You will continue to enjoy the experience that you already know and appreciate. Why the hate for Sandy Bridge?

I think a lot of the Sandy Bridge "haters" actually want to upgrade but not at the expense of the graphics performance. We all know the Core 2 Duo is aging and that future hardware will pass it by in the coming years, but we're not ready to take two steps forward on the CPU and 1-2 steps back on the GPU.

 

[TrollToddington]

I think a lot of the Sandy Bridge "haters" actually want to upgrade but not at the expense of the graphics performance. We all know the Core 2 Duo is aging and that future hardware will pass it by in the coming years, but we're not ready to take two steps forward on the CPU and 1-2 steps back on the GPU.

And there are those of us who don't care much for the GPU but need a faster CPU. Provided the GPU is capable of displaying a video @ HD resolution on the 11" I'll be perfectly OK. I am not a serious gamer - the only games I play are Civilization IV and SimCity IV Rush Hour. Apart from that I am into small and unobtrusive games like Luxor 5th Passage which do not require a speedy GPU.

 

[entatlrg]

I think your perspective is couched in the past when the MBA was a niche product because of its high price tag. That was a major barrier to adoption and why the previous MBA was primarily the domain of the big spenders.

Fast forward to today when the entry level 11" MBA is now the most affordable Mac notebook (tied with the Macbook). The MBA market has exploded simply because of the relatively low price tag as evidenced by brisk sales in the last quarter. Apple has totally repositioned the MBA in their lineup. It is more of a mainstream model now and is well within the range of "conservative" spenders. So, I would say that the demographics of MBA owners has changed dramatically with the current revision, which is part of the point that Alexandero was making.

My perspective is not couched, lol.

I'm well aware of the new MBA price point and it's popularity, in fact MBA sales are double Apple projected.

That doesn't change where the MBA is going to fit into Apples product updates, nor does it eliminate the challenges of putting SB in such a thin notebook. Previous MBA owners are too familiar with heat and noise we don't want it back. Hell read about heat and fan noise issues over in the MBP forum, you think SB is near ready for a MBA?

The only point Alexandro was trying to make was insinuate current MBA owners fear a SB update because it will decrease the value of our current machines... and that is not a fear of most MBA owners I'm sure.

 

[Hellhammer]

That doesn't change where the MBA is going to fit into Apples product updates, nor does it eliminate the challenges of putting SB in such a thin notebook. Previous MBA owners are too familiar with heat and noise we don't want it back. Hell read about heat and fan noise issues over in the MBP forum, you think SB is near ready for a MBA?

There has always been people complaining about heat and noise, it isn't limited to SB MBPs. It's not like Apple reads the MR forums and makes decisions based on that. Apple did it with the MBPs so nothing is stopping them from doing it with the MBAs too. There are lower voltage CPUs that suit into MBAs just fine.

Apple can't stick with C2Ds forever. What will Ivy Bridge change? Most likely nothing. The TDPs will very likely be the same so Intel can increase the clock speed and/or core count to improve the performance. The IGP will suck as much too. Yeah, it might finally beat the 320M which is based on technology from 2009. Well, it's good that it only took Intel 3 years to get there. It will lag behind the discrete GPUs and I'm sure I will see the same people complaining if and when Apple uses it.

My guess is that Apple will update the MBA in summer or autumn, with Sandy Bridge. Mini also had a very long time without an update but after that, it has gotten several more or less frequent updates. Just because it took long last time doesn't mean that it will this time. If you don't like it, then simply don't buy it. Nobody is going to take away your 2010 MBA. I bet most buyers of MBA couldn't care less about the CPU or GPU.

The truth is that none of us knows what will happen anyway. Everything is a tradeoff and has its pros and cons. We all have our opinions and guesses, and a few things that try to back them up, that's it.

 

[vader_slri]

The only point Alexandro was trying to make was insinuate current MBA owners fear a SB update because it will decrease the value of our current machines... and that is not a fear of most MBA owners I'm sure.

I interpreted your comments differently. You seemed to indicate that MBA owners specifically are deep-pocketed, "not conservative spenders", thus implying that resale value was not important to them. While I would agree with you in the past, I was merely suggesting that the demographics have changed significantly given the new low price point. Many new owners are probably price sensitive, much more so than in the past. Anyway, if that wasn't your point, then I apologize.

 

[vader_slri]

I think a lot of the Sandy Bridge "haters" actually want to upgrade but not at the expense of the graphics performance. We all know the Core 2 Duo is aging and that future hardware will pass it by in the coming years, but we're not ready to take two steps forward on the CPU and 1-2 steps back on the GPU.

I guess I don't see 1 step back on the GPU side as a big concern given there is an available 2+ steps forward available on the CPU side. Overall, I see SB as an improvement. Besides, for the SB detractors, just don't buy the update - your 320m equipped MBA will continue to do whatever graphics-demanding application you need it to do.

What I also find strange, and this isn't directed at you, KPOM, is that SB detractors think Ivy Bridge will solve everything. So 9400m level of performance is unacceptable in 2011, but 320m level of performance is acceptable in 2012?

Anyway, like Hellhammer said, we're all speculating. Only Apple knows when they're going to update the MBA. I think sometime in the June-October time frame is reasonable but Apple has surprised me before.

 

[MacFever]

As much as I would like to see Sandy Bridge Chips in new MBA's....I would be worried about heat after reading about what's happening in the new Macbook Pro's.


Does the Samsung Series 9 run hot?

 

[fatlardo]

Based on the Samsung 9, I don't think they will go with SB because it would mean about a 20%-30% bump in CPU but a degrade of more than 50% for the GPU. Again just speculating. I don't think the 20-30% justifies the down grade of the GPU. What do you guys think bout it?

 

[alexandero]

As much as I would like to see Sandy Bridge Chips in new MBA's....I would be worried about heat after reading about what's happening in the new Macbook Pro's.

Apple chose to use 45W SB chips for the new MBPs, and if you add the GPU you'll understand why it has more heat related issues than the 2010 revision.

On the other hand, it's likely that Apple will use the 17W SB in the 11" and the 25W SB in the 13" SB, and without a dedicated GPU the new MBA revision will use less watts than the 2010 revision. So there's no need to worry.

 

[rovex]

There has to be a refresh. They can't honestly still be using intel core duo in the year 2012. That's like 4 year old tech.

 

[WesCole]

I've said it before, but I won't buy an Air until they bring back the backlit keyboard. Writing reports while in bed is really difficult for me (not a great touch-typist). Also, I have been leaning toward the 15 inch Pro for a while now since I can still get the anti-glare screen and work out by the pool on nice days.

 

[mutsaers-vr.nl]

Maybe Apple and Intel are working on an option not mentioned yet in this thread !!!!

 

[Susurs]

My subjective view is that everything has to be balanced...if you put a good CPU in computer than you can not put a garbage GPU/HDD and other things in it as it will make bottleneck sooner or later. This combination in Air's is well balanced in my point of view and I do not understand for what reason some of you need this enormous CPU power alone and what are you going to use it for as I can still see even C2D doing tasks great and fast there. Photo/video pros will use something else than Air anyways. I mean I am not against SB, but other components has to be in same level as well.

 

[fyrefly]

Your error in facts is you're using the MBP and applying the chips used in it to the MBA. Look, the MBP buyers care about CPU and bragging rights, so the latest CPU is a priority there while it's not in the MBA lineup.

My bad, I guess? Do you want me to show you how Apple adopted the SL9300/9400 for the MBA right away (they did) and then adopted the SL9600 when it became available in Early 09? They did.

Graphics (and probably the complete redesign) were the only thing holding back from Apple including Arrandale in the MBA.

I believe anyone who expects a June or anything before October update to the MBA is a dreamer and isn't being realistic. I will happily use my C2D and Nvidia 320m in the most amazing Mac ever, the MBA without SB. It would be a mistake to go SB in the MBA, so the only way it happens is if Jobs has no more say and the people there start screwing up the method that works which is not to update until other product updates are cared for and there are components that provide a better complete MBA. Apple is all about the complete package with the MBA, and SB IGP provides a serious constraint.

I will put money on no MBA update in June 2011.

Other than Windows Gaming, I want to see where the SB IGP provides a constraint? I'll give you that maybe not Jue, but if not June then definitely October.

All of this:

No update until June 2012 ... for good reasons as Scottsdale noted above.

No way the Air is going to get an update in 2011.

Seems too far out for me. Whether it's SB or just a RAM Bump, Backlit Keyboard and Thunderbolt (if they can fit it on that Tiny MBA Logic Board) - Apple will most definitely not let the MBA sit stagnant for 24 months.

Additionally the MBP's need a design update BEFORE Apple is going to start spec'ing the Airs to meet MBP performance, that's where their profit is.

Really? Did you notice that Apple sold 1.1 Million Airs (out of 4 Million notebooks) after the October refresh? I'd say their profit is largely in the Airs as well now that the Air has been priced down to appeal to the masses.

And regarding profit, if Apple were to adopt SB, the i5 and i7 chips cost the same or less than the Core2's they're replacing, and also cuts out the cost of the 320M chip. So Apple could conceivably be SAVING $50-$60 Million per quarter if they adopted SB. That could provide enough incentive right there.

Not to mention the better battery life with SB as well.

what seems strange is that so many owners vehemently oppose a Sandy Bridge update. I just don't understand that mentality. The appearance of a Sandy Bridge update will not make your C2D MBA suddenly useless. You will continue to enjoy the experience that you already know and appreciate. Why the hate for Sandy Bridge?

+1, this is what I've been saying all along. If Apple updates the MBA to SB, it doesn't suddenly kill all the C2D+320M machines that people are so vehemently defending right now.

The hate for SB is just in the graphics, I'm hoping? 'Cause otherwise, I have no idea why people would want to cling to a slower chip when a faster, more energy efficient and cheaper chip is available.

My guess is that Apple will update the MBA in summer or autumn, with Sandy Bridge. Mini also had a very long time without an update but after that, it has gotten several more or less frequent updates. Just because it took long last time doesn't mean that it will this time. If you don't like it, then simply don't buy it. Nobody is going to take away your 2010 MBA. I bet most buyers of MBA couldn't care less about the CPU or GPU.

The truth is that none of us knows what will happen anyway. Everything is a tradeoff and has its pros and cons. We all have our opinions and guesses, and a few things that try to back them up, that's it.

This is one of the smartest things I've read in a while.

 

[jamesryanbell]

And that was the right decision for you since you needed a computer at that time and the MBA fulfilled your needs. No one is disputing your choice. However, what seems strange is that so many owners vehemently oppose a Sandy Bridge update. I just don't understand that mentality. The appearance of a Sandy Bridge update will not make your C2D MBA suddenly useless. You will continue to enjoy the experience that you already know and appreciate. Why the hate for Sandy Bridge?

Because since we just bought, NO ONE likes the idea of not having the latest and greatest. That's just part of being a tech head. Everyone wants the "GOOD one". Having said that, there are some real, honest complaints about Intel integrated graphics. Play it down if you must, but there's validity to those complaints. Some owners are much more concerned about the graphics rather than the processor upgrade, simply because it's a second computer to a lot of people (especially 11" owners like myself). The 320m, while not a powerhouse, is simply a superior graphics chip; and the jump from C2D to Sandy Bridge, while nice, doesn't mean much if graphics are crippled and basically downgraded. The C2D is "enough" for a lot of people (again, as a SECOND computer), and a detriment to graphics plus an upgrade to processor speed goes from ok/ok to ok/NOTok.

Make sense?

 

[outsidethebox]

We all know the Core 2 Duo is aging and that future hardware will pass it by in the coming years, but we're not ready to take two steps forward on the CPU and 1-2 steps back on the GPU.

I'm sorry, but pass it by in the coming years??! My 5 year old MBP has a C2D processor, the processor is old as s$%@! There is no excuse.

I am shocked at the way people complacently accept Apple's decisions to put older hardware in their machines and still justify the price. People will argue "oh but its stable, it's still perfectly fine, it does everything I need it to, blah blah blah". Unbelievable. Apple absolutely loves people like you. Enjoy your new MBA with 5 year-old processing technology, that's quite an intelligent buy and future investment, well done. In the mean time, I will wait until Apple picks their a@@es up off the ground and stops screwing their customers over with technology over half a decade old in a Premium-priced machine.

 

[Hellhammer]

I'm sorry, but pass it by in the coming years??! My 5 year old MBP has a C2D processor, the processor is old as s$%@! There is no excuse.

C2D is just a product name. They all aren't the one and the same. The current CPUs used in MBAs came out in late 2008 and early 2009. The first i7 CPUs came out in 2008 as well, but the current ones are nowhere near the same as those.

 

[57004]

Based on the Samsung 9, I don't think they will go with SB because it would mean about a 20%-30% bump in CPU but a degrade of more than 50% for the GPU. Again just speculating. I don't think the 20-30% justifies the down grade of the GPU. What do you guys think bout it?

That engadget review is not a fair comparison to determine the performance of Sandy Bridge in the MBA, because it compares the Samsung 13" to the Apple MBA 13". However Samsung uses an Ultra-Low Voltage CPU in their 13" which Apple uses in their 11".

If you do a like-for-like comparison, the Sandy Bridge variant of the same voltage class / clock speed delivers about double the performance, according to the Benchmark list at NotebookCheck.

If you compare the current 11" base CPU (SL9400), 1.4Ghz to the Sandy Bridge 1.4Ghz i5 2537M you'll see the CPU-bound benchmarks show roughly double (they're mostly lower-is-better-style). The 3D performance is also better but I assume those for the SU9400 are calculated using the intel graphics which are present in Intel's accompanying chipset, which the Air does not use. Please note the higher TDP for the SB one is because the GPU is in the CPU in this case, and the 10W for the current CPU doesn't include the 320M's TDP (which is most likely higher than 7W).

Of course once the Samsung 9 becomes widespread we'll see some more solid real-life scenarios but it is really looking better than a mere 30% improvement in the CPU speed for the same clock speed and that is impressive in my opinion.

 

[Sensamic]

I must say that Im a bit (actually a LOT) worried that the next update will continue to use Core 2 Duo... Is this possible?

Intel will stop production of Core 2 Duo processors this year, so this would mean that the next update should have SB, but...

 

[57004]

I must say that Im a bit (actually a LOT) worried that the next update will continue to use Core 2 Duo... Is this possible?

Intel will stop production of Core 2 Duo processors this year, so this would mean that the next update should have SB, but...

I can't imagine them releasing another C2D update, there would be nothing they could update in that case. They're already using the best C2D's available within the TDP range available (as BTO). I'm sure nVidia won't develop a successor to the 320M since intel stops making the only CPU's it can be used with. Thunderbolt can't be added because it requires Sandy Bridge. Backlit keyboard maybe, but it's not big enough to warrant an official update.

I think it's either Sandy Bridge or no update (until Ivy Bridge).

 

[Scottsdale]

I can't imagine them releasing another C2D update, there would be nothing they could update in that case. They're already using the best C2D's available within the TDP range available (as BTO). I'm sure nVidia won't develop a successor to the 320M since intel stops making the only CPU's it can be used with. Thunderbolt can't be added because it requires Sandy Bridge. Backlit keyboard maybe, but it's not big enough to warrant an official update.

I think it's either Sandy Bridge or no update (until Ivy Bridge).

No, you're right, they will not introduce another C2D. However, they will wait until Ivy Bridge if that makes a better all around MBA than SB can provide. I would love Thunderbolt but not with SB IGP as the sole graphics.

I really cannot believe this thread. The same things get repeated, and nobody is willing to look at Apple's track record. The MBP used to get updates every six or seven months, now it's 11+ for two straight. The iPhone used to get an update every year, which is already too long, and they're pushing it back further... I don't like the strategy, and I don't appreciate it, BUT I HAVE LEARNED FROM IT. I used to always preach an update was coming, but I have learned the facts and methods of Apple in updates, how other products have effects on unrelated product updates, and how Apple cannot seem to focus on many projects at once.

The iPhone 5 needs introduced, the iMac needs an update, the Mac mini needs an update, the MacBook needs an update, the Mac Pro needs an update, all of the iPods need an update, Apple is working on Lion, and Apple is working on iOS 5. The way Apple does things is not to release everything at once which helps with revenue smoothing. I would have to guess that October would have been a good time for an MBA update if it made sense from a product standpoint, but Apple will most definitely wait for Ivy Bridge to provide an actual upgrade for the MBA rather than sideways update offering a spec of a CPU bump and a gigantic loss in graphics performance which Apple pushes.

I say Lion, iMacs, and maybe the MacBook get updated this Summer. iPhone 5 and iPod Touches get updates in September. Possibly a Mac Pro and Mac mini update near that time frame.

January 2012, OR WHENEVER the Ivy Bridge chips are ready, Apple turns its focus to the MBA. This is just the way it is. Now, I will be happy to eat crow if I am wrong, but I am very confident as I have studied Apple's madness. Again, I don't agree with it, but it seems to be working for them. They somehow realize that people will not update their Macs every six to eight months, but if they push them out to once annually they're more likely to make big pushes when they do update the Macs. The MBA makes a lot of sense for an October update if the hardware is there, but at the same time I think Apple's cycles for iOS 5 and its products that the holidays will be covered by iOS products which are natural for consumers...

 

[TrollToddington]

The iPhone 5 needs introduced, the iMac needs an update, the Mac mini needs an update, the MacBook needs an update, the Mac Pro needs an update, all of the iPods need an update, Apple is working on Lion, and Apple is working on iOS 5. The way Apple does things is not to release everything at once which helps with revenue smoothing. I would have to guess that October would have been a good time for an MBA update if it made sense from a product standpoint, but Apple will most definitely wait for Ivy Bridge to provide an actual upgrade for the MBA rather than sideways update offering a spec of a CPU bump and a gigantic loss in graphics performance which Apple pushes.

You forget the things called "Marketing", "Product Life" and "Competition", releasing a new product is not solely dependent on advancements in technology.

So far all we know is that C2D has reached its end of "Product Life" (or approaching it), so there will be an update anytime soon. Whether it will be in June, or October, or January depends on the MBA product life cycle. We can continue this thread forever but since none of us know "the big picture" and the marketing strategies of Apple all we do is to share our hopes, needs and desires of a new computer.

I've got an i3 @3GHz at home, I'm not buying an equally expensive laptop computer with C2D @1.4 GHz, my logic is that simple. I want to be able to run my stuff with equal convenience on both a 11" Air and my iMac. After all, computers should serve customers, it's not the other way round.

 

[Scottsdale]

You forget the things called "Marketing", "Product Life" and "Competition", releasing a new product is not solely dependent on advancements in technology.

So far all we know is that C2D has reached its end of "Product Life" (or approaching it), so there will be an update anytime soon. Whether it will be in June, or October, or January depends on the MBA product life cycle. We can continue this thread forever but since none of us know "the big picture" and the marketing strategies of Apple all we do is to share our hopes, needs and desires of a new computer.

I've got an i3 @3GHz at home, I'm not buying an equally expensive laptop computer with C2D @1.4 GHz, my logic is that simple. I want to be able to run my stuff with equal convenience on both a 11" Air and my iMac. After all, computers should serve customers, it's not the other way round.

C2D is still being made, and if Intel didn't force its worthless IGP at the cost of competition, we would ALL have Core i-series CPUs in EVERY Mac. Apple is using C2D because it isn't forced to use Intel's chipset and can use a much superior Nvidia GPU. You are failing to consider any of the real variables and market conditions that have forced Apple down this path. There is zero doubt that Apple would love progress with CPUs but doesn't care for Intel's dirty games and prefers a well-rounded MBA over Intel's joke of an IGP. It is like using a Porsche 911 Turbo engine but eliminating steering and adjustable throttle. Sure it would be faster but would it be better for the consumer.

Huh, iMac and MBA? Whatever you say then...LOL.