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Recent 27" iMacs are NOT silent
- Thread starter motrek
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Jony Ive 😍😍🧡
MBPr 2012 was my first Mac ever. But it only had 8 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD.
Changed it a bit later with my still-daily-driver 2013 MBP 15 for 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD.
MBPr 2012 was my first Mac ever. But it only had 8 GB RAM and 256 GB SSD.
Changed it a bit later with my still-daily-driver 2013 MBP 15 for 16 GB RAM and 512 GB SSD.
The first Macs through the Plus had no fans. If they ran too warm, you could buy a plastic chimney for the top that gave better drafting for more air flow. You could also buy a fan unit that sat on top and had a couple of switched outlets.
Since my office was where I met clients, I opted for the fan unit. It looked better and being the same plastic, didn't draw attention to itself. The fan was hardly noticeable. I have no idea if it really helped but my Plus was working perfectly long after it was too old to run anything current.
Hard to believe that I paid $7,700 in 1986 dollars for that system—imagine a 20MB hard drive costing over a thousand bucks but they did. Factoring inflation, my two iMac Pros and 2020 combined didn't cost that much but I ran my company on it for 5 years. It was when I could no longer do my taxes that I had to replace it and I was not happy about that. Got over it, of course.
Since my office was where I met clients, I opted for the fan unit. It looked better and being the same plastic, didn't draw attention to itself. The fan was hardly noticeable. I have no idea if it really helped but my Plus was working perfectly long after it was too old to run anything current.
Hard to believe that I paid $7,700 in 1986 dollars for that system—imagine a 20MB hard drive costing over a thousand bucks but they did. Factoring inflation, my two iMac Pros and 2020 combined didn't cost that much but I ran my company on it for 5 years. It was when I could no longer do my taxes that I had to replace it and I was not happy about that. Got over it, of course.
The retina MacBook Pro was first introduced in 2012, What 14 years are you talking about?
I was talking about the first macbook pro.. not the retina one. I guess I wasn't really replying to that video.. heh
Thank you for this thread. I have the same problem. The Genius Bar told me twice that is all normal, I got one iMac 2007, one 2013, one 2015, and now from this 2019 I didn't expect all the noise I get. Is the loudest one. Very disappointing. For example during a normal compression of a 1giga mkv file to mp4 fans get very loud and running at top speed for 20 minutes, or the time is necessary to compress a simple video file. I can produce the same process with those other Macs and no one is that loud, the fans don't even engage on the other 3 iMacs. Looks not an healthy process but for the Genius is all normal. Attached what they answer to my specific question and detailed process to be reproduced. Looks like they can't reproduce the customer issue and process but only execute their own tests. Really it's the first time I am that dissapointed. Attachment is in Spanish since I am in Spain. Thanks again for this thread I feel less crazy. I should have sent it back in the first 30 days during April 2019, but I bought it during covid, we were in lockdown and I needed a new machine because all the family was studying and working from home. I didn't realize that issue in those days. 
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I also expect powerful computers to be noisy when under load. That was never my complaint.
My complaint is that the iMac fan has a minimum speed of 1200 RPM which is easily noticeable and annoying to me in a quiet room.
You might think your iMac's fan is stopped when the computer is idle, but that just means that whatever room you have the iMac in has enough ambient noise to drown out the fan noise.
Since getting my iMac, I've done the hack to lower the minimum fan speed to 1000 RPM. I find this to be inaudible and the change doesn't affect the internal temperatures of any of the components when the computer is idle-ish. I really wish Apple would officially lower the minimum fan speed so I wouldn't have to do this hack. There's really no reason for them not to.
So what does it mean? Can I buy the i9-10core iMac and let it run and also sleep next to it (Small Apartment problem)?
Or will the fan noise disrupt my sleep?
I plan to use it as hypervisor for lightweight tasks (more IO oriented )
Or will the fan noise disrupt my sleep?
I plan to use it as hypervisor for lightweight tasks (more IO oriented )
I don't think the number of cores has anything to do with anything. If the computer is under load, the fan will run at its maximum speed of ~2600 RPM and you probably won't be able to sleep.
Regardless of which processor is in the iMac, it will use very little power when idle (or close to idle) and thus the fan will run at its minimum speed of 1200 RPM.
Whether or not you can hear that, or sleep next to that, depends on how much ambient noise is in your apartment.
Depends on your usage... what you consider ideal fan speeds doesn't mean it's the same for all use cases. Apple doesn't want to fry the system, hence the fan in the first place. Granted a savvy engineer could probably devise a more silent system but not likely at a price point or form factor that is desired.
That being said, I have never really once complained about fan noise coming from any computer. Albeit my hearing is skewed from my days in the military. To give a little perspective, I have worked in a black box environment at one job post military. The place was completely sound dampened. It was too quiet. As in no sound at all. Given the choice, I'd rather have some fan noise than no noise.
Look on the bright side, at least there is a hack.
Apple has already "devised a more silent system"--it's the iMac that they're shipping now.
If they just lowered the minimum fan speed down from 1200 RPM to 1000 RPM (as I've done with the hack), I bet it would be inaudible to basically everybody and it would run just as well.
When I lowered the fan speed on my computer, I did a bunch of testing to make sure it wouldn't be damaged. If anything, under light loads, the lower fan speed results in slightly cooler temperatures. My explanation for this is that slower-moving air allows for more mixing, so the heat from some components is better able to enter the exhaust flow. But the difference was 1-2C at most depending on the component so maybe that's just within the margin of error for these temperature sensors. The point is that the slower fan speed does not result in higher temperatures, only less noise.
I am convinced Apple is sourcing different vendors for their fans on the 2020 model then. As I write this I sit in a dead silent room, windows closed, nothing else running in this room except my 2020 27" iMac and even with my sensitive ears I cannot hear anything at all. Only when I walk to the back of the machine and put my ear right up to the vent do I hear a slight whirling.
It's possible but I don't think the actual fan makes that much noise. I notice a huge difference between 1200 RPM and 1000 RPM even though there's only a 20% difference between those two numbers. So I think almost all of the "fan noise" from the computer is coming from air turbulence, presumably as air passes at certain speeds through the various vents. So I would be surprised if the actual fan (or its manufacturer) makes much/any difference.
I can't really explain why you wouldn't hear the fan noise. I guess maybe your room isn't as quiet as you might think (HVAC system? noise coming in through the windows from e.g. outside traffic or something?) or maybe you've just gotten that used to the noise.
Or it might have something to do with your room's acoustics. I've tried putting my ear close to the exhaust vent of my iMac and the volume and character of that noise is significantly different than the noise I hear from the fan when sitting on front of the computer. Maybe it depends, partially, on how the noise reflects off the wall behind the iMac.
If the fan is the actual noise source, you'll hear a low pitched noise or rumble caused by bad bearings or a warped or off-balanced rotor. This is rare but it can happen and is covered under warranty.
In this case, as you've observed, it makes only a slight difference under light load. As the load increases, it can be counterproductive.
Yes—under a light load. I tried a couple of projects on my wife's 2020 that normally run and kick the fans up just a little on my iMac Pro. The fans on the her 2020 were almost as loud as my 2010 before I removed that gawdawful HDD and installed an SSD into it.
For her work, I can barely tell there's a fan in it at all.
I know what the fans sound like at full on because TechTool Pro has a test. Interestingly, it tests only one fan at a time so I've never heard both together at top speed.
That. It's one of the reasons I recommended self-adhesive acoustic panels behind the iMac. On your desk below the ports should also help.
Believe it or not, this is a well known effect but in the automotive field. I spent years between gigs working in that industry from 1973–1996. If one removes the thermostat on a car engine, the coolant can actually flow so fast that it doesn't absorb enough heat from the engine.
In this case, as you've observed, it makes only a slight difference under light load. As the load increases, it can be counterproductive.
Yes—under a light load. I tried a couple of projects on my wife's 2020 that normally run and kick the fans up just a little on my iMac Pro. The fans on the her 2020 were almost as loud as my 2010 before I removed that gawdawful HDD and installed an SSD into it.
For her work, I can barely tell there's a fan in it at all.
Yep.
The iMac Pro is an excellent example.
I know what the fans sound like at full on because TechTool Pro has a test. Interestingly, it tests only one fan at a time so I've never heard both together at top speed.
Indeed. To do the "1000 RPM hack," I use a program called Macs Fan Control. It allows you to configure your own fan curve. I have mine configured to speed up when the CPU PECI temperature is 70C and reach its maximum speed at 90C.
This is vastly more conservative than Apple's curve, which often allows the CPU to get into the 90s before it even starts to speed up the fan. And at least for my iMac, the fan never reaches its maximum speed, even though the CPU gets hot enough that its performance is thermally restricted. Ugh.
So not only does the hack make my iMac inaudible (to me) at idle, it also makes my computer a little faster under load and it might even make the computer last longer by reducing thermal cycling.
Unfortunately Macs Fan Control only lets you key off of one sensor. Ideally I would also like the fan to spin faster when the GPU PECI temperature is high. As is, I can imagine a scenario with my current setup where the GPU might get hotter than I'd want. But since I never do anything that stresses the GPU, I'm not too worried.
The only reasons I can imagine for the 1200 RPM minimum fan speed with current iMacs are:
1) Apple designed the cooling system with the redesign of the chassis in 2012 and it has functioned according to their specs and design goals since then, so there hasn't really been a need to update them. Presumably changing anything about the system would require testing (i.e., cost), which they'd obviously be averse to if they think it's good enough already. Also, the fewer variations you have in a model line, the simpler, and simpler is better.
2) A higher minimum speed acts as a buffer, so there are fewer scenarios where transient loads would cause the fan speed to cycle up and down. Psychoacoustically, such cycling is often more objectionable than something that's objectively louder.
So, I get it, but still find it annoying. Happily there is the hack to lower the minimum fan speed and I'm crossing my fingers that it continues to work for the next few years.
Has anyone purchased one recently and gotten one with a completely silent fan under normal load?
Its not going to be completely silent. I guess only AS might give us that as the idle will probably not require as high rpm as Intel.
Or, like other AS products, sometimes the fan is even off.
So forget it with Intel. We just have to be patient a little longer. Few months
Or, like other AS products, sometimes the fan is even off.
So forget it with Intel. We just have to be patient a little longer. Few months
Silent enough. I do not notice it in a normal seated position. I'd have to put my ear up close to hear any noise.
When asked, my wife says it's quieter than her 2011, itself pretty quiet after I replaced the HDD 6 years ago. I had both on the same desk last week as I was preparing the 2011 for sale and can confirm this.
Its not going to be completely silent. I guess only AS might give us that as the idle will probably not require as high rpm as Intel.
Or, like other AS products, sometimes the fan is even off.
So forget it with Intel. We just have to be patient a little longer. Few months
We'll see. Apple may use the M1X chip inside the iMacs, which have a higher thermal design power than the original M1. The thing with AS is that the more high performance cores that are added, the hotter it's going to run. It's efficient, yes, but the more performance you want to extract from it, the hotter it gets.
Of course, but this will be Apple's way. They will design it for their system and won't be limited by Intel's offering (+ GPU). So that itself will be different.
Well, of course—just like everything else. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is hard to get around.
The 16 2019 Intel MBP is one of the noisiest computers I've ever owned, except at absolute idle. Not even a single core running high. And that's with TurboBoost disabled. You dodged a bullet.
I replaced my 2017 iMac (base model quad-core Core i5 with Radeon Pro 570) with a 2020 iMac (mid-tier model 8-core Core i7 with Radeon 5500 XT) and oh my god is this thing loud! What the hell? Before I passed the 2017 on to my wife I was able to compare both iMacs side-by-side at different fan speeds, and the 2020 is much louder at low revs but at the same time significantly quieter at high revs north of ~2,000 rpm.
If it wasn't for the SMC hack I would have returned this iMac right away even before setting it up. For me personally that noise level at 1,200 rpm idle fan speed is absolutely unacceptable. I had to lower revs down to ~850 rpm on the 2020 iMac before I could no longer hear the fan whereas on the 2017 everything below 1,000 rpm was inaudible to me.
No idea what Apple's engineers were thinking and how this jet engine made it past quality control.
If it wasn't for the SMC hack I would have returned this iMac right away even before setting it up. For me personally that noise level at 1,200 rpm idle fan speed is absolutely unacceptable. I had to lower revs down to ~850 rpm on the 2020 iMac before I could no longer hear the fan whereas on the 2017 everything below 1,000 rpm was inaudible to me.
No idea what Apple's engineers were thinking and how this jet engine made it past quality control.