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Recommend a typeface...
- Thread starter anim8or
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If you read my previous post then you may see why I may not have much confidence in my own work, I am not being lazy, i have played with probably 100 fonts/typefaces for this logo and nothing seems to work for me, nothing feels right.
I understand i may have been pretty, well extremely vague in my original post but it was late and i had been working all day then came home to work on this logo, i was tired and in my desperation thought coming here, as i have seen some great advice given over the years, would help.
Trust me when i say i have done a lot of work and research for this project and i haven't posted my design as i dont want to be roasted by those who know better and lose total confidence in this piece.
The reason you've received such harsh treatment around here is because you're essentially asking us to concept and make decisions for you. If you're not willing or able to make those decisions on your own, and frankly, if you're afraid to ask for thoughts and opinions on your piece before you present it to the client, then maybe you should reconsider graphic design as a career choice.
Would you rather receive a harsh critique from us on your piece or from your potentially paying client? Sometimes a very harsh critique can steer you in the right direction and prevent you from losing a job or a client.
I've been designing for at least 9 years now, and some of the critiques of my work I receive today are just as harsh as when I was taking a class. But that doesn't stop me from continuing in my profession. And fear that a piece might not be good enough never stops me from asking a friend or coworker for help. But I never ask anyone to concept a job for me - even if it's just choosing a font.
I have well over 1,000 fonts. And yes - sometimes choosing one can be a bit daunting. Narrow your font choices down to 3-5. And sometimes, doing that is a leap of faith. But that helps to build the confidence.
I completely understand if you don't want to post any concepts here. But try to find someone with more experience than you – especially if you're just starting out – to give you a critique of your work before you show it to the client.
Out of random curiosity....why not? I'm not aware of any legal or ethical problems of posting concepts on here and asking them to be critiqued. I'm just curious as to your reasoning.
Well, I'm a designer (an architect), and I'm pretty sure the reason everyone thinks we're elitist pricks is because of the way some other posters in here are behaving. He asked for a damn font. Being a designer entitles no one to have the high horse crap attitude these guys are having. We're not better than anyone, your or my skills in no way make our opinions superior to someone else's. To discredit someones advice because they are not a designer is trivial and unnecessary. Garbage like that is disgusting and a disservice to what we try and do. To take such offense to someone asking for a font, seriously just a font, is perhaps the most childish reaction I have ever seen. Some people need to reevaluate their priorities...
P.S. To the OP, I know some may call it overused, but Helvetica is perhaps the most perfect sans serifs font ever made, IMO, and by changing the size, boldness, and letter spacing, can convey a number of different intentions. I despise overcomplicated typefaces. Good luck!
P.S. To the OP, I know some may call it overused, but Helvetica is perhaps the most perfect sans serifs font ever made, IMO, and by changing the size, boldness, and letter spacing, can convey a number of different intentions. I despise overcomplicated typefaces. Good luck!
You can't just pick a font without knowing the brief, the intent, the proposed corporate identity.
The font is the absolute base, the bedrock of the design. Effectively, you were asking for someone to design this for you gratis.
Strangely, I have no particular objection to doing freebies, but what got up my nose was the implication that recommending a font was a throwaway thing.
It's not. If typography is not your strong point, then work on it. You can't call yourself a graphic designer if you don't know anything about typography, and if you're not a graphic designer it's a bit of a nerve asking graphic designers to do your job for you at no charge.
Sorry, but that's how I feel.
Jim
Yeah. Well, I ended up getting out of professional design because I got SO sick of people undervaluing design, imagining that it was easy, that anyone with a copy of GIMP or Publisher could do it.
I've designed newspapers, magazines, books, brochures, leaflets, catalogues, POS displays, packaging, stationery, CDs, and an entire shop-front in Birmingham. I've never met a file I couldn't get to go through a RIP by one workaround or another, I championed InDesign and PDF workflow when everyone was still using Quark and Postscript and got at least one national chain of regional newspapers to change their entire production infrastructure.
And, as my posting history shows, I have absolutely NO objection to offering help and advice, but this post was a very offhand way of asking for the most fundamental design decisions to be made for the OP, by design professionals.
Maybe it's a raw nerve for me, but I'm a little bit tired of people coming into this forum and implying that they can do what I can do, without knowing what I know.
You have to learn this stuff, folks, so get off your ar$es and learn it.
Bah!
Jim
If I have come across as elitist or snotty (and one can argue my first couple of posts were a bit on the sarcastic side), I do sincerely apologize. But I have to agree with the sentiment that asking us to choose a font for you is crossing a line. When you're being hired to perform graphic design services, you're not being hired just to slop down some images and a font on a page. You're being hired to think. You're being hired to use your knowledge of design to successfully convey a message to the viewer. The typeface you choose is an integral part of that process. So being asked to pick a font for you is very insulting.
I will be glad to assist you in your design...once you've designed it. I cannot in good conscience be asked to think for you. You have to make those decisions yourself. As I said earlier, if you aren't able or willing to do that and aren't able to understand negative criticism is some of the best criticism you can ever receive, you really should consider another career path.
If you don't want to face the gauntlet of public criticism on this forum, I completely understand. But if you would like to PM me with your design, I'll be more than happy to offer you some advice and/or critique...as would most graphic designers on this forum.
I know that starting out in graphic design can be a little daunting. I wish you the best of luck in this process.
I will be glad to assist you in your design...once you've designed it. I cannot in good conscience be asked to think for you. You have to make those decisions yourself. As I said earlier, if you aren't able or willing to do that and aren't able to understand negative criticism is some of the best criticism you can ever receive, you really should consider another career path.
If you don't want to face the gauntlet of public criticism on this forum, I completely understand. But if you would like to PM me with your design, I'll be more than happy to offer you some advice and/or critique...as would most graphic designers on this forum.
I know that starting out in graphic design can be a little daunting. I wish you the best of luck in this process.
Your post made me grin. The graphic design industry needs more people who are willing to stand up for what competent design is worth.
Get off my high horse? Is that your answer to everything, to assume that I am an elitist B*tch because of my reaction? Are you disappointed because we asked that you actually, I don't know, work??? To come on here and throw us this random font question is not only ignorant, but condescending to say the least. To assume that we as graphic designers don't take the time to conceptualize a composition to ensure that we're using the perfect font choice, is insulting and degrades our profession.
And you say you're an animator? How on earth did you handle criticism in college then? How did you accept criticism, if you can't even accept a critique from us—professional designers in the industry? This is how we evolve in our field—we accept constructive criticism and move on to the challenge, not walk away and pout because we didn't hear what we wanted to hear. Or do you think you're above all of that? I agree with SwiftLives and suggest that perhaps you should choose another career path, because as a graphic designer you will be faced with MANY critique challenges from co-workers, supervisors, clients, et al.
And if a Jr. Designer approached me with "what font should I choose?" Then guess what, s/he shouldn't be a Jr. Designer to begin with, because they obviously didn't take the time to sit down with their design and not only conceptualize what typeface to use, but to come up sketches as well. In graphic design—unlike what most people think—it isn't about creating something with the computer, but on the contrary, the computer is just a tool, not the end all with a design project.
I, too, have over 2,000+ fonts installed on my system, so the last thing I am able to do (or desire to do) is to "find a font" that is best suited for YOUR needs, without any background info or visual to guide us. How do you expect us to proceed with such limitations?
What if we went on your animator thread and said "please design a background for my animated city." But without actually providing details and/or a visual to what your city looks like? Same thing applies here.
I'm done with this thread as it's clear I'm dealing with children.
Wow, the guy asked for a font. Jesus. Some people.
It's never just a font, as I believe I have adequately explained in my posts above.
Cheers
Jim
Oh, hey, since it's just a font ...
Oh, no, wait. I've made conscious decisions about what combination of upper and lower, tracking, kerning, baseline shift and point size ... without knowing the intended target audience, the branding and to what variety of purposes it could be put, I've had to go for a pretty scattershot approach, but if it were my brief, I'd be pretty confident of ending up with a working logo from one of these starting points.
(Ironically, I have no idea whether I've made my point, or shot myself in the foot with this post.)
Cheers!
Jim
Oh, no, wait. I've made conscious decisions about what combination of upper and lower, tracking, kerning, baseline shift and point size ... without knowing the intended target audience, the branding and to what variety of purposes it could be put, I've had to go for a pretty scattershot approach, but if it were my brief, I'd be pretty confident of ending up with a working logo from one of these starting points.
(Ironically, I have no idea whether I've made my point, or shot myself in the foot with this post.)
Cheers!
Jim
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I honestly don't know what to say to a post like that. That is a perfect example of "high horse'ism" if ever i've seen it. You've really got quite an attitude problem towards non designers - you obviously resent non designers designing.
I painted my kitchen last month, would a decorator be upset with me? I also replanted my garden, would a gardener be upset? Of course they wouldn't.
So seriously you need to get rid of that chip on your shoulder that everyone thinks graphic design is somehow inferior to other jobs and be a bit more welcoming to people asking advice.
Not the same thing at all. If you asked your gardener to recommend which plants to put in, what the ideal soil pH was and how you could regulate the acidity to achieve that, and when would be the best time to plant ... and then said "Well, thanks for the advice, I don't need a professional gardener now!" ... then that would be a more accurate analogy.
If the OP had come and posted one or more examples of his work, explained his brief and asked whether we felt that the examples met the brief -- as many other posters have -- then he would most likely have got a range of useful and constructive critiques.
"Choose my font for me" is pretty much the same thing as saying "Design my logo", and that's what's put people's backs up.
Cheers
Jim
I'll name for you a few considerations I take into account when choosing a typeface for a logo: kerning, leading, size, case, baseline shift, color, ligatures, ascender/descender placement, ascender/descender length, weight, shading, visibility, scaleability, & contrast. Believe it or not, logo design is a bit more involved than selecting "Arial" from your font menu.
Graphic designers as a whole have done a very poor job of convincing the masses of the value of good, competent design. There are people out there who do not understand the difference between hiring someone for $600 with a background in design and hiring someone for $60 who got Microsoft Publisher preinstalled on their new computer. Graphic design is a field that often times is undervalued. Many times potential clients only look at the cost. And people who come on here and ask others to do their work for them are part of the reason graphic design is undervalued.
I'm verrrrrrry tempted to go into my rant about how graphic designers should be licensed.
We don't resent non-designers designing. We resent the non-designers asking anonymous people to concept a logo for them. There are many many threads on this board where designers will help beginning or amateur designers along by providing critiques and advice. But those people have to show us a good faith effort of some initial work on their part. The OP has not.
So, now that you've studied graphic design for a few years, have some experience in the field, and make a good living off it, you won't even take the time to flip through some fonts and refer the OP to even a single font? It doesn't even have to be good advice, no one is judging you by what you say.
Read this. (Please?
)You seem overly motivated by money. Why can't you relax for an hour, and remember how fun it was to design for the hell of it, not for work?
So, now that you've studied graphic design for a few years, have some experience in the field, and make a good living off it, you won't even take the time to flip through some fonts and refer the OP to even a single font? It doesn't even have to be good advice, no one is judging you by what you say.
Read this. (Please?
You seem overly motivated by money. Why can't you relax for an hour, and remember how fun it was to design for the hell of it, not for work?
In onegirlcreative's defense, the OP wasn't asking us to find him a font, he was asking us to design him a logo.
I will, in turn, suggest you read this.
Oh, you are so right. It's much much more important then just a font. It's a type style, a way of life, a true symbolism of this mans dreams! Mehh...Just don't post if you don't want to help the poor guy out. So much wasted time on peoples snoobish elitist attitudes around here.
Logo design ≠ Font selection
Sigh.
The OP asked us to design a logo for him. What may have come across as elitist or snobby on our part is a good-faith attempt by us to push and encourage him to do the job himself.
All designers need to learn to rely on themselves and their own experiences to design a logo, rather than having us do it for them.
There's no shame in asking for help after you've started. There is shame in asking someone else to start and concept the job for you.
This is why so many of us print designers get all frustrated and flustered by these types of posts. As designers, we are constantly having to legitimize our profession.
Unfortunately, I think we're getting to the point in this thread where all sides have made their case. I'm not sure what else can or needs to be said.
By the way, Chico - you've got a pretty kickass site.
And this is your idea of being helpful?
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/532823/
How about this?
https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6095410#post6095410
Pull up my previous posts - I am more than happy to help people. You think that DVD insert template I posted here a couple of weeks back was something I just magically had sitting on my HDD, or maybe I drew it specifically because the OP didn't seem to be getting the idea?
You might want to come down off your own high horse before you start throwing insults at others.
Cheers
Jim
In onegirlcreative's defense, the OP wasn't asking us to find him a font, he was asking us to design him a logo.
I will, in turn, suggest you read this.
Exactly where did i say design me a logo.
Have you even read my first post! The logo is finished, the client wants the name to go with the logo, NOT the name is the logo!!!!!
You are just being idiotic now!
RECOMMEND a typeface.... you know what, i went and asked a lecturer at my old college for some advice and they gave me a nice book on typography, no hints at what she thought would suit, nothing of the sort, just a nudge in the right direction!
Exactly what i expected from this community, so thanks all, enjoy your bickering.
Thank you to those who understood my original query and respected my inexperience with thoughtful insight.
To those who just vented there frustrations, i suggest you go get laid!
PS Jim your signature says it all!
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