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hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Hi, I am considering to buy a NAS for file sharing and backup among multiple devices and OS. One of the reasons is that dropbox only allows use of 3 devices for free. Can the NAS replace dropbox?

What is the recommended number of LAN ports for NAS? Is one sufficiently good enough? Also, can I use only one hard drive in a two-bay diskless NAS or I need to fill in both bays in order to use the NAS?

For laptops and desktops drives I bought the past few years, I only bought SSD due to sudden dead of several hard drives over the past 30 years. Is it better to choose NAS with SSD or hard drives for NAS are robust enough compared with those made over 10 years ago?
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,209
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Perth, Western Australia
1 LAN connection is fine for home use.
2 drives are fine for home use (set up in RAID1 for fault tolerance - otherwise one drive failure and you're toast)

For NAS type stuff (bulk storage of non-hot data) spinning disks are fine and much cheaper to get the capacity with.

SSDs actually fail in a nastier manner than hard drives (at least hard drives start failing, making noise, etc. before totally dying - SSDs effectively just disappear if they fail - there's often no warning), and hard drives are cheap enough that getting 2 in a mirror is not cost prohibitive.
 

robbieduncan

Moderator emeritus
Jul 24, 2002
25,611
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Harrogate
I'd say the answer is impossible without more information. What is your current home network setup? One "big" network? VLans for segregation of management or users? How much data will you store? How much read/write performance do you need?

You may well be fine with 1 Gb network port and 2 drives. You may way to segregate management onto a separate VLan (or even separate physical network) which might be easier with 2 network ports. If you have managed switches you might want to bond network ports for greater throughput...

In terms of disks you might want huge storage that cannot be provided from a single drive. You might want to improve the performance of spinning disks through using more than 2. You might want >1 drive redundancy...

I have 2 NAS devices at home: an ancient Synology RS812+ that has 4 drives in RAID with single disk redundancy and 2x1Gb network ports bonded. This is going to become my backup NAS being replaced by a FreeNAS VM that has boot provided off mirrored RAID and 8 drives with 2 disk redundancy for ZFS storage. This has 3 network ports assigned to it: a 1GB port for management and 10 10G ports for 2 different VLans it serves files to. The later setup is ridiculous for home usage bit I have the hardware so why not! For most usage a NAS appliance from Synology or QNap will be just fine.
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
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What is the recommended number of LAN ports for NAS? Is one sufficiently good enough?
Is it better to choose NAS with SSD or hard drives for NAS are robust enough compared with those made over 10 years ago?
I'd say the answer is impossible without more information. What is your current home network setup? One "big" network? VLans for segregation of management or users? How much data will you store? How much read/write performance do you need?

As above, need more information.

My experience with Time Machine Backups on QNAP and Synology is not good. They run for a while, then get corrupted and have to be restarted from scratch. They are also very, very slow, even for incremental. Be careful with the backup solution you choose.

The number of ports you need is dependent upon your network bandwidth, network capabilities, amount of data that you will be transferring, etc. Note that 1 GbE at its best will only give you around 800 Mbps transfer rates. This is probably close to the write capacity of NAS with a few disks, but considerably less than a NAS with more (say 4 or over) drives in a RAID configuration. Port aggregation (if your NAS is connected to a switch and the switch supports it) will allow give you greater throughput, but won't increase your transfer speed. Once a transfer is started it is usually bound to a specific port and is limited by that ports speed. However a 2nd user can start a transfer and if it is bound to the 2nd port then they will limited by that specific ports speed. Without aggregation the bandwidth from one port would be split between the two transfers, cutting them in half (theoretically).

If you get a NAS with say, 10 GbE, then you don't get this problem until you get a lot of users since there is a ton of bandwidth available to be shared. This does, however, require upgrading your network which can be expensive. There have been a number of posts about using 2.5 or 5.0 Gbe ports, but I don't see much future in them. Maybe more cost effective now, but my guess is that 10 GbE will be the standard in X number of years.

For NAS type stuff (bulk storage of non-hot data) spinning disks are fine and much cheaper to get the capacity with.

SSDs actually fail in a nastier manner than hard drives (at least hard drives start failing, making noise, etc. before totally dying - SSDs effectively just disappear if they fail - there's often no warning), and hard drives are cheap enough that getting 2 in a mirror is not cost prohibitive.

Agree. I have lost count of the hard drives that have failed on me, but it doesn't bother me. There are utilities can give you a picture of drive health so you can be warned of potential problems. If you look at the BlackBlaze drive statistic reports drives have gotten a lot more reliable, especially in the last couple of years. SSDs can have an estimated lifetime that is 1/10 of a hard drive (extreme case). Not worth the expense for this use, particularly since their speed is no advantage due to the bottleneck of your network speed.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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For that ethernet port on the NAS, is it for connection with the wireless router? So, I better put the NAS next to the router for direct connection?

I am the only user. Currently three computers are being used at home. They are connected to a wireless network. They are backed up using different SSD. I plan to buy a NAS mostly used to store data that I have under Mac, Windows, Linux OS created over the past 30 years (maybe less than 2TB in total) and for sharing some files among the current three computers. I guess compared with some of you, my network and usage are not that big.

As for connection speed, something like transferring files between a computer and dropbox is good enough.

Is the Synology 2-Bay NAS DS220j (512MB DDR4) sufficiently good enough? Shall I go for the 2-Bay DS220+ (2GB DDR4). As for the hard drives, is 4TBx2 5900RPM 6GB/s sufficiently good enough? Not sure about speed of NAS HD but I used 7200RPM drives on local PC 20+ years ago.
 
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robbieduncan

Moderator emeritus
Jul 24, 2002
25,611
893
Harrogate
Yes, I would connect the NAS to the router using a wired connection. I would try and use wired connections where possible for speed/stability as you bulk-copy to the NAS.

For 2TB, yes a 2 drive NAS with a couple of drives will be fine. Try and get a Synology that supports btrfs to prevent bit rot. The 220j does not seem to. The 218 or 220+ do
 
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hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Yes, I would connect the NAS to the router using a wired connection. I would try and use wired connections where possible for speed/stability as you bulk-copy to the NAS.

For 2TB, yes a 2 drive NAS with a couple of drives will be fine. Try and get a Synology that supports btrfs to prevent bit rot. The 220j does not seem to. The 218 or 220+ do

Thanks. For gaming PC, higher GHz is more important than more cores. For NAS, how the 4-core 1.4GHz CPU of the DS218 compared with 2-core 2.0 (base)/2.9 ((burst) of the 220+?

Am I correct that if I have a NAS, I don't need to worry about running out of storage of my free iCloud account and the free limited-access-from-3-device dropbox account?
 

robbieduncan

Moderator emeritus
Jul 24, 2002
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Harrogate
Like all CPUs comparing clock speed alone tells you very little (would you take 3.0Ghz gen 1 i7 over 2.9Ghz gen 10 i7)

The DS218 has a Realtek RTD1296
The DS220+ has an Intel Celeron J4025

So we are comparing an ARM Cortex A53 vs an Intel Celeron (Core architecture I think) CPU. Pretty hard to compare. And don't think: Apple are going ARM so the ARM is better: there are tones of performance variations in the ARM lineup and this is a low-cost generic ARM CPU not a super Apple one.

However the DS220+ is a 2020 model, the 218 is a 218 model: I'd go for the 2020 model

In terms of dropbox, iCloud etc I'd read up on Synology Drive. Certainly this can replace personal DropBox usage. In terms of iCloud I don't think you can have your photos auto backup to anywhere other than iCloud...
 
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Boyd01

Moderator
Staff member
Feb 21, 2012
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New Jersey Pine Barrens
FWIW, I am using a 2012 quad-core Mini as a file and time machine server using the built-in Catalina sharing functions. This is what I see when I access it as a network disk on my 2018 Mini

mini-server-ethernet.png


I am the only user. Currently three computers are being used at home.

This may not be the solution you want, but I'll just throw it out here because it's what I did in a similar situation. Got tired of dealing with shared disks across platforms, and my PC was old and needed replacing. So I got a 2018 Mini with 64gb RAM and am running my Windows software (primarily Globalmapper, a powerful GIS app) with Windows 10 in Parallels. Works better than I ever imagined and really runs circles around my old Windows PC. So I have replaced my 2012 Mini, 2013 MacBook Air and 2012 HP desktop PC with one system. No need to share files over the network, no rolling my chair around the room to different computers. :)

As a bonus, I'm also running MacOS Sierra and Mountain Lion in Virtual Machines which gives compatibility with over $3000 worth of legacy CAD and 3d software on the same machine. In your case, you could also run Linux in a VM. Like I said, maybe not a good solution for you but it's made my life a lot easier.

I converted the 2012 Mini into a server with 20tb of disks for backups and archival storage of legacy data.
 
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hobowankenobi

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2015
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on the land line mr. smith.
Synology Drive is a pretty good Dropbox alternative. Clients for Mac, Win, and mobile.

Drive also has a backup function too, separate from sync. I like it better than TM overall, though it has quirks...but more reliable than TM on NAS. More granular control too.

If you use their Quick Connect, you can sync and backup anywhere on the internet with no static IP, no DDNS, no router config. Pretty slick.

I would go with a mid-range 2 bay, dual NIC is nice (although 1 NIC is fine). Be wary about the low-end boxes: the J series. They are cheaper for a reason: less CPU, less RAM = lower performance. I would go with the DS218 or better...as mentioned above: DS220+.

2 bay with Synology Hybrid RAID lets you mix, match, and upgrade/upsize drives. Very flexible.

QNAP likely has a similar product, though I have not used one in years so I can't say.
 
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HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,298
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For that ethernet port on the NAS, is it for connection with the wireless router? So, I better put the NAS next to the router for direct connection?

Although there are wireless cards, it is better if you go with a wired connection. You can place it anywhere on the same wired network. Router, Mac, etc.

If your NAS is right next to your Mac I would consider QNAP. They have thunderbolt 3 solutions, although it looks as if a 4 bay is the cheapest.

I have both Synology and QNAP. Prefer QNAP for its software and extra features. Worth the extra expense.
 

throAU

macrumors G3
Feb 13, 2012
9,209
7,364
Perth, Western Australia
I'd say the answer is impossible without more information. What is your current home network setup? One "big" network? VLans for segregation of management or users? How much data will you store? How much read/write performance do you need?

Sure, but that's more "technical user" stuff who probably knows what they want/need - or would have the technical knowledge to mention things like that which may be relevant.

The fact that this guy is asking how many NICs he needs and is talking about basic file sharing for a home environment (typically < 10 people) means that you can infer by context that he's a "regular home user" and just wants basic NAS storage.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Although there are wireless cards, it is better if you go with a wired connection. You can place it anywhere on the same wired network. Router, Mac, etc.

If your NAS is right next to your Mac I would consider QNAP. They have thunderbolt 3 solutions, although it looks as if a 4 bay is the cheapest.

I have both Synology and QNAP. Prefer QNAP for its software and extra features. Worth the extra expense.

Wireless router is in one room while MBP and other computers are in another room.
 

HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
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Wireless router is in one room while MBP and other computers are in another room.

If all of the computers are connected wirelessly, none are wired, and the NAS is connected to the router then performance is likely to be poor, particularly if multiple users are using the NAS at a time. Your local Wifi speed is going to be the limiting factor. File sharing and backups could be painfully slow, depending upon file size and number of active NAS files or backups in use. What kind/size of files will you be sharing?

If you run a local (Not internet, not Speed Test) network tester what kind of results do you get? You install the server on one mac and run the client on another Apple device, iPhone, Mac, etc. I use Tamosoft's server & client:

IMG_0748.PNG
 

biffuz

macrumors 6502
Feb 23, 2016
347
349
About HDs and RAIDS: in a home environment, I don't care about RAID. It's just more expensive and doesn't protect you against viruses or accidental deletion. It's better to put money in a valid backup strategy instead, that saved my back more than any RAID ever did.
And don't worry about HDs breaking, this happens often on laptops because they are carried around, it's not as common on desktops.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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I plan to use the NAS to back up old drives of many years. Unlikely to have more than one computer using NAS at any time. Is 2GB RAM sufficient?
 

biffuz

macrumors 6502
Feb 23, 2016
347
349
I plan to use the NAS to back up old drives of many years. Unlikely to have more than one computer using NAS at any time. Is 2GB RAM sufficient?
My NAS only has 1 GB and I use it to record from 4 cameras, and I can still stream movies from it.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Is one or two 5900 RPM HD with 64MB Cache sufficiently good or it is better to get one or two 7200 RPM HD with 250MB Cache?

Also, can I buy one HD first and see how it goes and then later add one more for RAID ? Some said that it is better to buy both HD at the same time to have higher chance of getting very similar ones. Others said that to reduce the chance of getting two from the same bad batch, buy from different stores at longer interval.
 

pldelisle

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2020
2,248
1,506
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
You need to buy both drive a the same time. The RAID array is the first thing you create when configuring the NAS.
If only for storage, 5900RPM are fine since you are limited to 125MB/s by your ethernet link. I understand batches but there’s a limit for geekness. I’d take Western Digital personally.

I have a synology since 2013. Rock solid. DS1513+, 3 LAN bound + 1 management. RAID 5 3x4TB WD SE (now Gold) enterprise grade HDDs + 1 caching SSD. Flawless. I have an external USB3 HDD for backup and one in secret off-site location which I rotate.

Bounding isn’t equal to more throughput to *one* client. It equals more throughput to multiple clients, less bottleneck when serving multiple clients. It doesn’t make a bigger pipe.

I would personally take an Intel x86 based NAS. 2GB of RAM is plenty if only for storage. Consider 8/16 GB if running various containers with Docker. Mine has 4gb and I saw its limit more than a few times.But I couldn’t get higher memory back in the days. And x86 Intel because it will be supported for long time. You change this once in decade, if not even longer. After 7 years mine is totally fine and I don’t plan to change it at least for the next 5 years.

RAID is not backup. RAID is uptime and fault tolerance, not backup. Consider an external HDD for backupping the NAS in case of accidental deletion. Viruses are unlikely.

Consider good network equipment too. Ubiquity makes good products for the price they charge.
 
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hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Under what situation do we need more than 5900RPM for NAS? Before the existence of SSD, I always bought 7200rpm HD for PC. Not sure about NAS.
 

pldelisle

macrumors 68020
May 4, 2020
2,248
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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Under what situation do we need more than 5900RPM for NAS? Before the existence of SSD, I always bought 7200rpm HD for PC. Not sure about NAS.
I wanted enterprise grade HDDs. And this mean 7200RPM. I used this NAS as iSCSI target too, storing VMs on it. So I needed a bit more reaction speed (7200 rpm have lower latency). And running Docker containers too.

Just make sure to buy WD Red or Gold. Not Blue or Black. These drives don’t do RAID well.
 

hajime

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
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Is WD HD better than Seagate IronWolf and Ironwolf with Data Recovery?
 
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