iPhone 12 Pro Returned iPhone 12 Pro - Do not trust Apple

[BigMcGuire]

This is a bit of a nightmare with me. Every iPhone shipping transaction I’ve done has always been through FedEx. Even though it annoys some of the staff, I demand a receipt and have never had a problem. I have had my package take 5 days to go less than 30 miles... but eventually it made it.

As far as customer service - I’ve seen a MASSIVE difference between Apple Stores even 20 miles apart. The one where I live near has a manager who doesn’t frustrate the staff and they’re amazing. One Apple Store I went to closer to LA - half the staff were playing with cameras laughing around while tons of us were waiting for service - when we did get it, they broke our phone and told us they wouldn’t do anything about it. Going back to the Apple Store near our house - they replaced it within 3 mins and apologized for the other Apple Store (We had AppleCare+). Lol.

Back to topic... I’ve always wondered what would happen if the phones disappeared in the mail.

 

[jr866gooner]

I hope all works out for you, no way this is your fault. It is on apple's end since they chose to ship it with them and should have (and probably) insured the package. They should be the ones doing the heavy lifting and maybe you can dispute the charge?

This is why I waited till stores opened to replace the keyboard on my mac, no way I'm going to risk "losing" my mac and having to go through this.

We sent a MacBook over to the Czech Republic for a service and it came back sorted and unscathed with emails sent upon them receiving etc.

I’m sorry to hear of your issues, I’m sure it will be resolved.

 

[xyaqubx]

First in UK with Apple products the main carrier is usually UPS...

I assume due to Covid-19, chaos with recent Snow it’s possible they use different carrie.

Second , I work for Royal Mail, tracked parcels are scanned on every point while they moving from location to location ( that’s why they called Tracked ).Recently in Royal Mail, we experience huge amount of parcels , shortage of stuff, everything gone worst after 3 days of snow in UK at the beginning of the week , basically we stopped delivery due to safety reasons...Still Tracked parcels are treated as priority and have to be delivered in 48 or 24 hours...If parcel was lost or stolen , Royal Mail is able to say exact last point where has been scanned, on requests from Apple, not customer who send it, he just followed instructions given by Apple. For example once I returned some order to UK clothes company Asos , parcel was lost by carrier (Hermes), order was worth about 400£ , I provided proof that it has been send and received straight away refund, same practice applies to companies like Amazon, Nike , they prefer lost money than value customers. Apple should be similar, but now due to COVID , shortages stuff, people working from home , strange things happening, the best customer services can act like the worst ones.

 

[Hoyboy]

I have been fallowing along with this whole thing since it was started...

Hopefully this happens to you. Would like to see your reaction then

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Apple use UPS, DHL and DPD in the UK in my experience and with the pandemic basically quadrupling the parcel traffic in this country at the moment, they may well be using RM now too. When you take a parcel to the post office, it’s weighed, scanned and you are given a big receipt with a tracking number on it.

Apple organised the postage label for this item according to the OP, so they are responsible. If the insurance has been set at just £200, then Apple have taken that risk, not the OP. Once that parcel is scanned into the system and in the possession of the post office, the OP has effectively returned the item. Apple entered that contract with Royal Mail and it is down to them to recover, resolve the issue. As long as the OP has that receipt proving they have returned the phone, they have every right to escalate the complaint within Apple. Personally I think the OP spoke to someone who was a bit of an idiot. I would phone back and try again with someone else. It may well be resolved now though and likely is.

 

[macintoshmac]

IF you were Apple, then how would you react? Should Apple give new iPhones (or other products) with every “lost in the mail” complaint?

Who lost your package? Apple? Or the shipping company?

No need to mock the OP for the mental anguish they are going through. Your tone, "should Apple give new devices with every lost in the mail complaint" is condescending and unbecoming.

1. Apple sent a prepaid box (Royal Mail) as per OP.

This means Apple has a tie-up with Royal Mail. From a business standpoint, the customer has nothing to do with this (after consigning the shipment over to Royal Mail). This is between Apple and Royal Mail if Royal Mail lost an Apple product that Apple paid for.

2. If OP can prove to Apple that he sent his phone back and Royal Mail has an inward entry to show for it, at that point it is Royal Mail's problem, not the OP's. Apple will have to provide the OP with a new device since it was not OP's responsibility to ensure Apple receives the phone (it was Royal Mail's) nor his choice to use Royal Mail (it was Apple's, since they sent a prepaid Royal Mail box).

- - -

Here is a direct response to your query.

If I were Apple, I would do these three in listed order:

1. Contact the customer to prove he sent the phone to Royal Mail using the prepaid box and that Royal Mail has an entry for it
2. Contact Royal Mail since I am having a business tie-up with them (sending prepaid Royal Mail boxes to customers for device returns) and it is their fault they misplaced my customer's device. If the device is not recovered, this will be recovered from my payment to Royal Mail.
3. If this is happening frequently, I would raise this issue with Royal Mail in my meetings with them and look for another provider that I can trust, so that neither my customers nor I undergo such hassles and losses again.

 

[Madtiger27]

No need to mock the OP for the mental anguish they are going through. Your tone, "should Apple give new shoes with every lost in the mail complaint" is condescending and unbecoming.

1. Apple sent a prepaid box (Royal Mail) as per OP.

This means Apple has a tie-up with Royal Mail. From a business standpoint, the customer has nothing to do with this (after consigning the shipment over to Royal Mail). This is between Apple and Royal Mail if Royal Mail lost an Apple product that Apple paid for.

2. If OP can prove to Apple that he sent his phone back and Royal Mail has an inward entry to show for it, at that point it is Royal Mail's problem, not the OP's. Apple will have to provide the OP with a new device since it was not OP's responsibility to ensure Apple receives the phone (it was Royal Mail's) nor his choice to use Royal Mail (it was Apple's, since they sent a prepaid Royal Mail box).

- - -

Here is a direct response to your query.

If I were Apple, I would do these three in listed order:

1. Contact the customer to prove he sent the phone to Royal Mail using the prepaid box and that Royal Mail has an entry for it
2. Contact Royal Mail since I am having a business tie-up with them (sending prepaid Royal Mail boxes to customers for device returns) and it is their fault they misplaced my customer's device. If the device is not recovered, this will be recovered from my payment to Royal Mail.
3. If this is happening frequently, I would raise this issue with Royal Mail in my meetings with them and look for another provider that I can trust, so that neither my customers nor I undergo such hassles and losses again.

Ok... has OP provided proof that he has sent it? Has he taken a pic of the receipt? Where is it? Has he posted it to this thread?

I have not followed this thread. Where is the proof?

 

[waquzy]

Ok... has OP provided proof that he has sent it? Has he taken a pic of the receipt? Where is it? Has he posted it to this thread?

I have not followed this thread. Where is the proof?

No, he has not provided any proof whatsoever, regardless, if he has the receipt, he will walk away with a new phone in the end. Apple will make sure of it.

The reason why the OP has gone silent now, is probably because the issue has been resolved and he has a new replacement iPhone, but he is too embarrassed to come back here and admit it after shouting DO NOT TRUST APPLE!

 

[macintoshmac]

Ok... has OP provided proof that he has sent it? Has he taken a pic of the receipt? Where is it? Has he posted it to this thread?

I have not followed this thread. Where is the proof?

Your questions are valid, but OP does not need to show us the proof. All OP needs to do is have proof and share with Apple. Your query was "how should Apple react to this" and I responded to that.

I do not need to see proof to help a person out. I just responded with sharing what I'd do if I were Apple, and what I do anyway for my customers. A business that wishes to maintain relationships with customers does not blame them. It tries to create a win-win or a compromise for both parties so that the fragile thread of trust and prospects of future business are not severed.

In this case, the best is that Royal Mail lost it and Apple should send a device to customer and recover the cost from Royal Mail since they are in a partnership with that business, not the customer. The customer would have used a service they trusted, and then the onus would have vested in the customer. Any problem would then have been between customer and the service they used, not Apple.

Since Apple sent a prepaid box to customer, this is between Apple and the business Apple partnered with, once the customer hands over the shipment to Apple's business partner.


I wish to share a personal anecdote here.

A telecom company sent me refund cheques. The shipping partner they used did not deliver the cheques to me, they called me and asked me to collect if I can.

What did I do?

I first wrote a mail to the shipping company, telling them that their last-mile field office is behaving this way. When they still did not deliver to my address after a couple of weeks, I wrote to the telecom company that the shipping partner they chose to do business with is behaving this way with their customer. I received my cheques in hand in 2 days.

Would you say this was between me and the shipping company? I never asked the telecom company to use the partner they did! It is their shared responsibility if their customer does not get the shipment they sent using the partner they did, no? That is all.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Ok... has OP provided proof that he has sent it? Has he taken a pic of the receipt? Where is it? Has he posted it to this thread?

I have not followed this thread. Where is the proof?

Why would the OP need to provide us with proof of a receipt? He only needs to send that to Apple, not an Internet forum. Plus it would contain information that you wouldn’t want strangers to get hold of if this is still in dispute.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No, he has not provided any proof whatsoever, regardless, if he has the receipt, he will walk away with a new phone in the end. Apple will make sure of it.

The reason why the OP has gone silent now, is probably because the issue has been resolved and he has a new replacement iPhone, but he is too embarrassed to come back here and admit it after shouting DO NOT TRUST APPLE!

Or it’s been resolved and they don’t care enough to put some of the posters minds at rest here lol. I occasionally visit Honda forums for answers but don’t return once I have my answer. Of course I thank people who help but it may be that the OP has a new phone and has moved on .

 

[Madtiger27]

Your questions are valid, but he does not need to show us the proof. All he needs to do is have proof and share with Apple. Your query was "how should Apple react to this" and I responded to that.

I do not need to see proof to help a person out. I just responded with sharing what I'd do if I were Apple, and what I do anyway for my customers. A business that wishes to maintain relationships with customers does not blame them. It tries to create a win-win or a compromise for both parties so that the fragile thread of trust and prospects of future business are not severed.

In this case, the best is that Royal Mail lost it and Apple should send a device to customer and recover the cost from Royal Mail since they are in a partnership with that business, not the customer. The customer would have used a service they trusted, and then the onus would have vested in the customer. Any problem would then have been between customer and the service they used, not Apple.

Since Apple sent a prepaid box to customer, this is between Apple and the business Apple partnered with, once the customer hands over the shipment to Apple's business partner.


I wish to share a personal anecdote here.

A telecom company sent me refund cheques. The shipping partner they used did not deliver the cheques to me, they called me and asked me to collect if I can. Would you say this is between me and the shipping company?

What did I do?

I first wrote a mail to the shipping company, telling them that their last-mile field office is behaving this way. When they still did not deliver to my address after a couple of weeks, I wrote to the telecom company that the shipping partner they chose to do business with is behaving this way with their customer. I received my cheques in hand in 2 days.

Of course my questions are valid...because they are.

Does he need to show us? No. Does he need to post his dirty laundry on the internet for all to see? No. But, SHOULD he given his proclamation in his title of thread? Yes.

Apple should react exactly like he described until he provides the proof he did indeed ship it and was in the carrier’s hands when the returned item went missing. Otherwise, like i wrote in the original post, how can you fault Apple because every Tom, Dick, and Harry out there will claim the same thing and get a free ”replacement”.

It’s funny...OP and you want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company......i wonder how many threads we will have on this forum complaining about Apple’s mistreatment of them and how cheap they are!

Your anedote is wrong. The cheques were sent out from telecom company, not you. It left the hands of a telecom employee and onto the hands of the carrier. The problem resides with the telecom company (the one who physically walked into mail office and handed off the cheques) and carrier (the one trusted to deliver their goods to you), not you.

That anecdote has nothing to do with THIS thread’s issue. The OP is the one that physically walked into mail office to hand off the item. Did Tim Cook personally get OP’s broken phone and handed it to the mail office to be sent back to Apple? You see the flaw in your anecdote?

The issue here is that the fault ALWAYS lies in the person in charge of handling off the product and the carrier. It is NEVER with the the person receiving the product. Now, if the person receiving the product paid for the postage, then that does not always mean the fault shifts to the receiver...the point of origin HAS to show proof that he handed the package off to the carrier. Without this proof, the fault still resides in the “shipper”.

 

[Madtiger27]

Why would the OP need to provide us with proof of a receipt? He only needs to send that to Apple, not an Internet forum. Plus it would contain information that you wouldn’t want strangers to get hold of if this is still in dispute.

For point of discussion. Otherwise why post this thread to begin with, right? If he wants to show his side for all to see, then show us the shipping proof. What is the point of his original post if he cannot show us anything? Why do we side with him and burn apple to the ground just on what he says without any proof????

Sorry, with so many stuff in society going on where accusers get benefit of the doubt without a shred of evidence, i am more skeptical than you i guess.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

For point of discussion. Otherwise why post this thread to begin with, right? If he wants to show his side for all to see, then show us the shipping proof. What is the point of his original post if he cannot show us anything? Why do we side with him and burn apple to the ground just on what he says without any proof????

Sorry, with so many stuff in society going on where accusers get benefit of the doubt without a shred of evidence, i am more skeptical than you i guess.

Maybe they could come back and tell us what happened but providing an Internet forum shipping proof is a bit over the top IMO. I think the point of the original post was him venting after a very frustrating conversation with Apples call centre. Not sure why someone would angrily make a scenario up just to lie to a load of strangers on the internet. It’s a perfectly believable story and not uncommon in the world of returning things. These sorts of things happen to somebody every day. Not sure why it’s realistic to disbelieve a person in favour of a retailer either? Why does the company automatically get believed but the consumer doesn’t?

 

[svanstrom]

Maybe they could come back and tell us what happened but providing an Internet forum shipping proof is a bit over the top IMO. I think the point of the original post was him venting after a very frustrating conversation with Apples call centre. Not sure why someone would angrily make a scenario up just to lie to a load of strangers on the internet. It’s a perfectly believable story and not uncommon in the world of returning things. These sorts of things happen to somebody every day. Not sure why it’s realistic to disbelieve a person in favour of a retailer either? Why does the company automatically get believed but the consumer doesn’t?

The people here are quite sensible (outside of certain subjects/subforums), so maybe we shutdown an attempt at causing trouble simply by not going straight to attacking the evil Apple.

There's just no way of knowing.

We either gave the support we could, to someone that needed it; or we didn't fit in with the plans of some newbie troll.

It doesn't really matter which one it was. It's over now.

(But hopefully it was a good person, and hopefully they'll show up with an update to let us know what happened.)

 

[Madtiger27]

Or it’s been resolved and they don’t care enough to put some of the posters minds at rest here lol. I occasionally visit Honda forums for answers but don’t return once I have my answer. Of course I thank people who help but it may be that the OP has a new phone and has moved on

Maybe they could come back and tell us what happened but providing an Internet forum shipping proof is a bit over the top IMO. I think the point of the original post was him venting after a very frustrating conversation with Apples call centre. Not sure why someone would angrily make a scenario up just to lie to a load of strangers on the internet. It’s a perfectly believable story and not uncommon in the world of returning things. These sorts of things happen to somebody every day. Not sure why it’s realistic to disbelieve a person in favour of a retailer either? Why does the company automatically get believed but the consumer doesn’t?

Remember, the burden of proof is on the accuser, no?? And if he is gonna post on the internet to “vent,” then he needs to provide the proof to back up his claims.

You and others jump on Apple...but note that Apple has not commented on the matter regarding OP’s situation...so you are passing judgement (against Apple) based on ONE side of the story...and that side has not even provided proof/evidence to support his claim. How fair is that? Is that how it works in real life? (Sadly, it does...but that’s another topic for another day.)

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Remember, the burden of proof is on the accuser, no?? And if he is gonna post on the internet to “vent,” then he needs to provide the proof to back up his claims.

You and others jump on Apple...but note that Apple has not commented on the matter regarding OP’s situation...so you are passing judgement (against Apple) based on ONE side of the story...and that side has not even provided proof/evidence to support his claim. How fair is that? Is that how it works in real life? (Sadly, it does...but that’s another topic for another day.)

I’m not jumping on Apple, I just know it’s possible to sometimes get a poor response from a retailer when something goes wrong. My wife’s Apple Watch died a few years ago and the help in store compared to over the phone was night and day. If I had accepted the call centres answer then she’d have had to pay £400 for a new watch. Thankfully we persisted and dealt with a decent person in their Cardiff store. Sorry I can’t provide any proof of that but it’s an instance I am happy to share.

I just don’t know why the OP owes any of your proof of postage. If you don’t believe them then fair enough, but this is a thread sharing their experience. You say I jump on Apple but I know you defend them in every thread where an aspect is criticised too. You may well be an employee of them I don’t know. I’m just someone who has enjoyed their products for many years but owe them nothing. If I’m not happy, I complain and share my experience. Same with any company where I’ve spent money. I sooner give an individual the benefit of the doubt over a company who pays their customer facing representatives minimum wage lol. They are a consumer driven company after all, not a religion or a sports team. Sometimes a person doesn’t always provide the service they are trained to deliver, Apple are not immune.

 

[Madtiger27]

I’m not jumping on Apple, I just know it’s possible to sometimes get a poor response from a retailer when something goes wrong. My wife’s Apple Watch died a few years ago and the help in store compared to over the phone was night and day. If I had accepted the call centres answer then she’d have had to pay £400 for a new watch. Thankfully we persisted and dealt with a decent person in their Cardiff store. Sorry I can’t provide any proof of that but it’s an instance I am happy to share.

I just don’t know why the OP owes any of your proof of postage. If you don’t believe them then fair enough, but this is a thread sharing their experience. You say I jump on Apple but I know you defend them in every thread where an aspect is criticised too. You may well be an employee of them I don’t know. I’m just someone who has enjoyed their products for many years but owe them nothing. If I’m not happy, I complain and share my experience. Same with any company where I’ve spent money. I sooner give an individual the benefit of the doubt over a company who pays their customer facing representatives minimum wage lol. They are a consumer driven company after all, not a religion or a sports team. Sometimes a person doesn’t always provide the service they are trained to deliver, Apple are not immune.

Huh? Read what I wrote again.

Sharing experiences without anything to back it up is as useful as poop-flavored lollipop. If anything, what you hear on the internet SHOULD be taken with a HUGE grain of salt...not by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt on the grand world of internet forums. LOL

Yeah, i work for Apple. I am actually Tim Cook. You should believe that since you give everyone benefit of the doubt. Or am i Bill Gates? Vaccine anyone?

What does minimum wage have to do with anything again? Walmart does not? Amazon? McDonalds?

Since we’re off topic...FYI, i buy what is best for my needs. I am not religious. I follow a distant sports team but never bought any products by them. I buy certain Apple stuff because they are the best at what i need them for. YMMV. What you do with your money is your business...i don’t really care.

My point with a lot of these threads is to provide a logical fact-driven response. If you don’t like it, then ignore me or move on. You seem to like critiquing Apple (and then always fall back on your repetitive response above when someone challenges your arguments)...so be it...it’s your keyboard.

 

[macintoshmac]

1. Apple should react exactly like he described until he provides the proof he did indeed ship it and was in the carrier’s hands when the returned item went missing. Otherwise, like i wrote in the original post, how can you fault Apple because every Tom, Dick, and Harry out there will claim the same thing and get a free ”replacement”.

2. It’s funny...OP and you want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company......i wonder how many threads we will have on this forum complaining about Apple’s mistreatment of them and how cheap they are!

3. Your anedote is wrong. The cheques were sent out from telecom company, not you. It left the hands of a telecom employee and onto the hands of the carrier. The problem resides with the telecom company (the one who physically walked into mail office and handed off the cheques) and carrier (the one trusted to deliver their goods to you), not you.

That anecdote has nothing to do with THIS thread’s issue. The OP is the one that physically walked into mail office to hand off the item. Did Tim Cook personally get OP’s broken phone and handed it to the mail office to be sent back to Apple? You see the flaw in your anecdote?

4. The issue here is that the fault ALWAYS lies in the person in charge of handling off the product and the carrier. It is NEVER with the the person receiving the product. Now, if the person receiving the product paid for the postage, then that does not always mean the fault shifts to the receiver...the point of origin HAS to show proof that he handed the package off to the carrier. Without this proof, the fault still resides in the “shipper”.

1. Business is not conducted with ego and who is right and who is wrong. Business is conducted with the attitude of trying to figure out the best way for mutual furtherance.

This is not about reactions. This is about processes. Apple would have asked the OP to provide proof that he did indeed ship. I never thought this was ever in question. What is a question though is why must you consistently think that everyone out here is against Apple?


2. I cannot vouch for OP, but I never said I want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company. My words were:

"The customer would have used a service they trusted, and then the onus would have vested in the customer. Any problem would then have been between customer and the service they used, not Apple."

How can this possibly translate to I want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company?


3. The anecdote is about business partnership and how that changes the equation, it was never about who the shipper and receiver are. As a business, we are there for our customers, even if the fault is not ours. If the customer packs something shoddily, and we receive it damaged, the customer is never going to admit they packed it badly. If we value our customers, we will have to work with them and offer them something - if we want their custom. If it is their fault, we calmly tell them what happened, never blaming them, and helping them with a way out. It is about helping them. If the customer was not at fault but we were, we admit and do whatever we can to salvage the relationship. If it was the fault of a third party that we paid for, we do what is right by the customer and take it up with our business partner (who we pay). The moment we pay for return postage, we become involved even if we were never at fault, because, for our customer, that return postage is a convenience we (and not the shipping company) offer to our customers, they never asked for it. Who will they contact if something goes wrong? The shipping company or us?


4. If you ever used return postage on anything, would you accept a company (XYZ) telling you they won't help you with something they paid for you to use and that you should contact the shipping company instead? Would you accept people on the internet telling you to stop blaming XYZ company who prepaid for your postage and that you should contact the shipping company instead and fight with them about why your shipment did not get delivered? As a customer of XYZ, that is not your headache! That is between XYZ who paid for the postage and the shipping company who gets XYZ's money to collect shipments from XYZ's customers and deliver the shipments safely to XYZ! You are a customer of XYZ, not the shipping company! And, XYZ is the customer of the shipping company, XYZ will take it with the shipping company that XYZ paid for a return shipment and shipping company lost it. Is this becoming clearer now?

I remember magazines often times came with prepaid return envelopes, and sometimes they had offers running where we had to send our consent or entry back to them in those envelopes within a stipulated time. They would tell to send our entries so many days in advance so that they receive them in time. Now, would you rather the magazine fights with the customer if a customer's envelope reaches after the due date in order to disburse a judgement on who is right and who is wrong, who to blame and who not, or just welcome the custom from the customer instead?


I will say this again:

This is business. This is about customers and maintaining relationships.

It is not about fault. It was never about fault and who to pin the blame on. It is simply about how to keep the customer happy. For Apple, whose customer is OP, this would be giving the customer a new device (to retain the customer). For the shipping company, whose customer is Apple, this would be offering them a better deal, a better assurance, or, financially, free shipping on x number of units to compensate for the cumulative losses that transpired while in shipping, so as to retain the customer (Apple).

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Huh? Read what I wrote again.

Sharing experiences without anything to back it up is as useful as poop-flavored lollipop. If anything, what you hear on the internet SHOULD be taken with a HUGE grain of salt...not by giving everyone the benefit of the doubt on the grand world of internet forums. LOL

Yeah, i work for Apple. I am actually Tim Cook. You should believe that since you give everyone benefit of the doubt. Or am i Bill Gates? Vaccine anyone?

What does minimum wage have to do with anything again? Walmart does not? Amazon? McDonalds?

Since we’re off topic...FYI, i buy what is best for my needs. I am not religious. I follow a distant sports team but never bought any products by them. I buy certain Apple stuff because they are the best at what i need them for. YMMV. What you do with your money is your business...i don’t really care.

My point with a lot of these threads is to provide a logical fact-driven response. If you don’t like it, then ignore me or move on. You seem to like critiquing Apple (and then always fall back on your repetitive response above when someone challenges your arguments)...so be it...it’s your keyboard.

Your first response to the OP was to back Apple when the claim was the package had gone missing after it had entered the delivery network. Where was your proof Apple were in the right? It works both ways and you seem to defend just about anything Apple does. I’ve seen you across numerous threads defending them like a PR representative wi try a reputation at stake. Your immediately suggested it was not Apples responsibility even though they had organised the shipping and paid for the return. Why did you assume the OP was responsible to track down the missing parcel rather than the company who organised and insured the return?

I critique any company if I don’t get the service I think I deserve and that’s my right as a consumer. Apple have perhaps the best customer service in the industry and none of their competitors can come close. I know this from past experience of Android. However, there are exceptions with the thousands of people they employ. The OP may have completely made all this up, who knows? The scenario they reference though is not completely unbelievable either. If you want a tracking number, a scan of the receipt and the email chain from the OP, send them a PM maybe. If my responses seem repetitive then that simply gives you a clue that my opinion remains the same. As long as opinions are shared in a discussion I’m apart of then i’ll chip in, it’s a forum after all.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

1. Business is not conducted with ego and who is right and who is wrong. Business is conducted with the attitude of trying to figure out the best way for mutual furtherance.

This is not about reactions. This is about processes. Apple would have asked the OP to provide proof that he did indeed ship. I never thought this was ever in question. What is a question though is why must you consistently think that everyone out here is against Apple?


2. I cannot vouch for OP, but I never said I want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company. My words were:

"The customer would have used a service they trusted, and then the onus would have vested in the customer. Any problem would then have been between customer and the service they used, not Apple."

How can this possibly translate to I want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company?


3. The anecdote is about business partnership and how that changes the equation, it was never about who the shipper and receiver are. As a business, we are there for our customers, even if the fault is not ours. If the customer packs something shoddily, and we receive it damaged, the customer is never going to admit they packed it badly. If we value our customers, we will have to work with them and offer them something - if we want their custom. If it is their fault, we calmly tell them what happened, never blaming them, and helping them with a way out. It is about helping them. If the customer was not at fault but we were, we admit and do whatever we can to salvage the relationship. If it was the fault of a third party that we paid for, we do what is right by the customer and take it up with our business partner (who we pay). The moment we pay for return postage, we become involved even if we were never at fault, because, for our customer, that return postage is a convenience we (and not the shipping company) offer to our customers, they never asked for it. Who will they contact if something goes wrong? The shipping company or us?


4. If you ever used return postage on anything, would you accept a company (XYZ) telling you they won't help you with something they paid for you to use and that you should contact the shipping company instead? Would you accept people on the internet telling you to stop blaming XYZ company who prepaid for your postage and that you should contact the shipping company instead and fight with them about why your shipment did not get delivered? As a customer of XYZ, that is not your headache! That is between XYZ who paid for the postage and the shipping company who gets XYZ's money to collect shipments from XYZ's customers and deliver the shipments safely to XYZ! You are a customer of XYZ, not the shipping company! And, XYZ is the customer of the shipping company, XYZ will take it with the shipping company that XYZ paid for a return shipment and shipping company lost it. Is this becoming clearer now?

I remember magazines often times came with prepaid return envelopes, and sometimes they had offers running where we had to send our consent or entry back to them in those envelopes within a stipulated time. They would tell to send our entries so many days in advance so that they receive them in time. Now, would you rather the magazine fights with the customer deciding who is right and who is wrong, who to blame and who not, or just welcome the custom from the customer?


I will say this again:

This is business. This is about customers and maintaining relationships.

It is not about fault. It was never about fault and who to pin the blame on. It is simply about how to keep the customer happy. For Apple, whose customer is OP, this would be giving the customer a new device (to retain the customer). For the shipping company, whose customer is Apple, this would be offering them a better deal, a better assurance, or, financially, free shipping on x number of units to compensate for the cumulative losses that transpired while in shipping, so as to retain the customer (Apple).

Very eloquently put. I often get the impression Apple is unlike any other brand where people feel they need to be affiliated with it through faith. Imagine complaining about a broken Breville toaster and getting the same level of distrust and negativity as we see across this forum when the slightest criticism is shared? You’re right this is a process and Apple like any other retailer seek to keep the customer happy. If they fail, people complain and life goes on. Hopefully the OP has gotten the answer they needed and has a replacement iPhone. I also hope they aren’t put off visiting this forum again.

 

[Madtiger27]

Your first response to the OP was to back Apple when the claim was the package had gone missing after it had entered the delivery network. Where was your proof Apple were in the right? It works both ways and you seem to defend just about anything Apple does. I’ve seen you across numerous threads defending them like a PR representative wi try a reputation at stake. Your immediately suggested it was not Apples responsibility even though they had organised the shipping and paid for the return. Why did you assume the OP was responsible to track down the missing parcel rather than the company who organised and insured the return?

I critique any company if I don’t get the service I think I deserve and that’s my right as a consumer. Apple have perhaps the best customer service in the industry and none of their competitors can come close. I know this from past experience of Android. However, there are exceptions with the thousands of people they employ. The OP may have completely made all this up, who knows? The scenario they reference though is not completely unbelievable either. If you want a tracking number, a scan of the receipt and the email chain from the OP, send them a PM maybe. If my responses seem repetitive then that simply gives you a clue that my opinion remains the same. As long as opinions are shared in a discussion I’m apart of then i’ll chip in, it’s a forum after all.

No, my initial response was in response to his claim. Let’s step back and be fair when judging something on the internet. Why assume immediately that it is Apple’s fault?

Again, in any natural rule of law, the burden of proof is on the accuser. If the OP wants to make claims, then bring the proof. If we believe everything we read on the internet, then that is maybe what is wrong with out society as a whole.

 

[macintoshmac]

Your first response to the OP was to back Apple when the claim was the package had gone missing after it had entered the delivery network. Where was your proof Apple were in the right? It works both ways and you seem to defend just about anything Apple does. I’ve seen you across numerous threads defending them like a PR representative wi try a reputation at stake. Your immediately suggested it was not Apples responsibility even though they had organised the shipping and paid for the return. Why did you assume the OP was responsible to track down the missing parcel rather than the company who organised and insured the return?

I critique any company if I don’t get the service I think I deserve and that’s my right as a consumer. Apple have perhaps the best customer service in the industry and none of their competitors can come close. I know this from past experience of Android. However, there are exceptions with the thousands of people they employ. The OP may have completely made all this up, who knows? The scenario they reference though is not completely unbelievable either. If you want a tracking number, a scan of the receipt and the email chain from the OP, send them a PM maybe. If my responses seem repetitive then that simply gives you a clue that my opinion remains the same. As long as opinions are shared in a discussion I’m apart of then i’ll chip in, it’s a forum after all.

Exactly! The focus of discussion should be offering helpful, constructive feedback. Pinning the blame on any party (or all parties for that matter) is rarely helpful.

 

[Madtiger27]

1. Business is not conducted with ego and who is right and who is wrong. Business is conducted with the attitude of trying to figure out the best way for mutual furtherance.

This is not about reactions. This is about processes. Apple would have asked the OP to provide proof that he did indeed ship. I never thought this was ever in question. What is a question though is why must you consistently think that everyone out here is against Apple?


2. I cannot vouch for OP, but I never said I want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company. My words were:

"The customer would have used a service they trusted, and then the onus would have vested in the customer. Any problem would then have been between customer and the service they used, not Apple."

How can this possibly translate to I want Apple to allow customers to use their own shipping company?


3. The anecdote is about business partnership and how that changes the equation, it was never about who the shipper and receiver are. As a business, we are there for our customers, even if the fault is not ours. If the customer packs something shoddily, and we receive it damaged, the customer is never going to admit they packed it badly. If we value our customers, we will have to work with them and offer them something - if we want their custom. If it is their fault, we calmly tell them what happened, never blaming them, and helping them with a way out. It is about helping them. If the customer was not at fault but we were, we admit and do whatever we can to salvage the relationship. If it was the fault of a third party that we paid for, we do what is right by the customer and take it up with our business partner (who we pay). The moment we pay for return postage, we become involved even if we were never at fault, because, for our customer, that return postage is a convenience we (and not the shipping company) offer to our customers, they never asked for it. Who will they contact if something goes wrong? The shipping company or us?


4. If you ever used return postage on anything, would you accept a company (XYZ) telling you they won't help you with something they paid for you to use and that you should contact the shipping company instead? Would you accept people on the internet telling you to stop blaming XYZ company who prepaid for your postage and that you should contact the shipping company instead and fight with them about why your shipment did not get delivered? As a customer of XYZ, that is not your headache! That is between XYZ who paid for the postage and the shipping company who gets XYZ's money to collect shipments from XYZ's customers and deliver the shipments safely to XYZ! You are a customer of XYZ, not the shipping company! And, XYZ is the customer of the shipping company, XYZ will take it with the shipping company that XYZ paid for a return shipment and shipping company lost it. Is this becoming clearer now?

I remember magazines often times came with prepaid return envelopes, and sometimes they had offers running where we had to send our consent or entry back to them in those envelopes within a stipulated time. They would tell to send our entries so many days in advance so that they receive them in time. Now, would you rather the magazine fights with the customer if a customer's envelope reaches after the due date in order to disburse a judgement on who is right and who is wrong, who to blame and who not, or just welcome the custom from the customer instead?


I will say this again:

This is business. This is about customers and maintaining relationships.

It is not about fault. It was never about fault and who to pin the blame on. It is simply about how to keep the customer happy. For Apple, whose customer is OP, this would be giving the customer a new device (to retain the customer). For the shipping company, whose customer is Apple, this would be offering them a better deal, a better assurance, or, financially, free shipping on x number of units to compensate for the cumulative losses that transpired while in shipping, so as to retain the customer (Apple).

And Apple, for the most part, has done that. Maintaining relationships...which is reflected by their brand loyalty and value.

I don’t work for Apple. You don’t. This forum has no affiliation that i know off with Apple.

We’re here to read on stuff. And if a forum member brings an issue to light, then he/she is asking for our OPINIONs. If he/she is shy about receiving opinions, then maybe the internet is not where he/she needs to be.

And for us to give opinions, then we need the facts/evidence/proof. When the accuser (apparently) lacks that, then what? Believe him/her? It is not like we have any say in his/her situation with Apple. But if the OP is coming here to satisfy his/her critic of Apple, then he/she should provide SOMETHING, right? Anything is fine 5 pages into this thread!

 

[Madtiger27]

Exactly! The focus of discussion should be offering helpful, constructive feedback. Pinning the blame on any party (or all parties for that matter) is rarely helpful.

Hmmm, you and the other guy are pinning on Apple without a shred of proof from accuser..........just saying.