iPhone 12 Pro Returned iPhone 12 Pro - Do not trust Apple

[macintoshmac]

Hmmm, you and the other guy are pinning on Apple without a shred of proof from accuser..........just saying.

Please show me the words I used with the slightest cadence towards pinning on Apple.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No, my initial response was in response to his claim. Let’s step back and be fair when judging something on the internet. Why assume immediately that it is Apple’s fault?

Again, in any natural rule of law, the burden of proof is on the accuser. If the OP wants to make claims, then bring the proof. If we believe everything we read on the internet, then that is maybe what is wrong with out society as a whole.

Why assume it was the OP’s fault? They explained they had posted the phone back to Apple in packaging Apple had provided and with a postage service Apple had organised. Why not suggest they persist with Apple to make sure the representative follows the correct course of action and contacts Royal Mail rather than accepting the poor advice that the onus was on them?

My wife buys clothes weekly online to try on and send back outfits she doesn’t like. Imagine if one of those packages goes missing and the retailer asks her to contact DPD or FedEx even though returns are part of the process?? It just doesn’t work like that and if what the OP has said is true, then someone is not doing their job properly and they would be right to escalate a complaint. You may not want to believe them and demand proof, but you are someone in the internet too and your demands and feedback are just as spurious as any other anonymous party. At least @macintoshmac understands how consumer returns work and has offered some very good feedback .

 

[macintoshmac]

And Apple, for the most part, has done that. Maintaining relationships...which is reflected by their brand loyalty and value.

Apple has. They rule the customer satisfaction roost for the most part.

 

[Madtiger27]

1. Apple sent a prepaid box (Royal Mail) as per OP.

This means Apple has a tie-up with Royal Mail. From a business standpoint, the customer has nothing to do with this (after consigning the shipment over to Royal Mail). This is between Apple and Royal Mail if Royal Mail lost an Apple product that Apple paid for.

Actually, IMHO, the customer has A LOT to do with this. If customer can show that he did indeed mail it and left his hands at the carrier’s office, then i agree that Apple and carrier need to take responsibility.

BUT, what you wrote above is wrong. The fact that Apple paid for postage does NOT automatically clear the OP of not needing to provide proof of shipment.

 

[Madtiger27]

Why assume it was the OP’s fault? They explained they had posted the phone back to Apple in packaging Apple had provided and with a postage service Apple had organised. Why not suggest they persist with Apple to make sure the representative follows the correct course of action and contacts Royal Mail rather than accepting the poor advice that the onus was on them?

My wife buys clothes weekly online to try on and send back outfits she doesn’t like. Imagine if one of those packages goes missing and the retailer asks her to contact DPD or FedEx even though returns are part of the process?? It just doesn’t work like that and if what the OP has said is true, then someone is not doing their job properly and they would be right to escalate a complaint. You may not want to believe them and demand proof, but you are someone in the internet too and your demands and feedback are just as spurious as any other anonymous party. At least @macintoshmac understands how consumer returns work and has offered some very good feedback .

Why assume the other way? Again, for the 10th time, this is the internet. He is asking. He accuses Apple.

My response is the same as i would provide in real life. Burden of proof is on the accuser. Rule of law. Now, Apple may be nice and believe the customer...great! But that does not make the accuser right either.

 

[macintoshmac]

Actually, IMHO, the customer has A LOT to do with this. If customer can show that he did indeed mail it and left his hands at the carrier’s office, then i agree that Apple and carrier need to take responsibility.

BUT, what you wrote above is wrong. The fact that Apple paid for postage does NOT automatically clear the OP of no needing to provide proof of shipment.

Oh, no; I never said OP does not need to show (to Apple) that they sent the device back. I neither said nor implied that. What I said was that this is not even something that needs discussion. This is the first thing OP would have done (show Apple he sent the device) and Apple would have done (asked OP to show a receipt).

Also, again, I never said or implied that if I pay for return postage for my customer to use, I am liable for anything. What I said was that if I want to keep my customer with me, I will have to make up for the whole world's shortcomings - my own company's, my business partner's, and my customer's. All so that my customer is happy with me and does not go to my competitor.

Again, how, just how, do you keep thinking somehow the blame is being shifted to Apple?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Why assume the other way? Again, for the 10th time, this is the internet. He is asking. He accuses Apple.

My response is the same as i would provide in real life. Burden of proof is on the accuser. Rule of law. Now, Apple may be nice and believe the customer...great! But that does not make the accuser right either.

If the OP has said I have proof of postage via a Royal Mail receipt and have provided Apple with a copy but are not comfortable sharing this on an Internet forum, would you believe them?

 

[macintoshmac]

Why assume the other way? Again, for the 10th time, this is the internet. He is asking. He accuses Apple.

My response is the same as i would provide in real life. Burden of proof is on the accuser. Rule of law. Now, Apple may be nice and believe the customer...great! But that does not make the accuser right either.

Why does your whole argument revolve around "burden" of proof lying with the "accuser"?

Suppose, the accuser has offloaded this burden. Now what? What next do you think Apple should do? Does this change anything for the customer who does not have a working device? Does this change anything for Apple who does not have a happy customer in OP? Does this change anything for the shipping company?

Again, this is not about who is right and who is wrong. This is about finding a way forward for Apple to keep their customer (OP) happy and for Royal Mail to keep their customer (Apple) happy.

 

[Madtiger27]

Why does your whole argument revolve around "burden" of proof lying with the "accuser"?

Suppose, the accuser has offloaded this burden. Now what? What next do you think Apple should do? Does this change anything for the customer who does not have a working device? Does this change anything for Apple who does not have a happy customer in OP? Does this change anything for the shipping company?

Again, this is not about who is right and who is wrong. This is about finding a way forward for Apple to keep their customer (OP) happy and for Royal Mail to keep their customer (Apple) happy.

Whether Apple makes things right without evidence is on their end. Great for all parties involved. But that does not mean that it was all on Apple as you wrote above, right?

 

[Madtiger27]

Oh, no; I never said OP does not need to show (to Apple) that they sent the device back. I neither said nor implied that. What I said was that this is not even something that needs discussion. This is the first thing OP would have done (show Apple he sent the device) and Apple would have done (asked OP to show a receipt).

Also, again, I never said or implied that if I pay for return postage for my customer to use, I am liable for anything.

We agree then. ?

 

[Madtiger27]

If the OP has said I have proof of postage via a Royal Mail receipt and have provided Apple with a copy but are not comfortable sharing this on an Internet forum, would you believe them?

Did he say that? I may have missed it. I did not read this thread since original post till this AM.

But if he did show that then I am sure Apple did the right thing.

 

[waquzy]

If the OP has said I have proof of postage via a Royal Mail receipt and have provided Apple with a copy but are not comfortable sharing this on an Internet forum, would you believe them?

No, as you can easily blank out the important bits

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Whether Apple makes things right without evidence is on their end. Great for all parties involved. But that does not mean that it was all on Apple as you wrote above, right?

If Apple provided the postage label and packaging, they already have the information needed to check whether the parcel is in the system or not. They have all the codes from the initial transaction.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

No, as you can easily blank out the important bits

Why do you to see it in order to offer any constructive advice? What does providing a redacted document to you offer the OP in return? The privilege of your anonymous trust?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Did he say that? I may have missed it. I did not read this thread since original post till this AM.

But if he did show that then I am sure Apple did the right thing.

Always best to read through a thread as a general rule of thumb, especially if criticising someone’s shared experience. The OP has stated Apple have acknowledged the parcel has been recorded as in the postal system.

 

[Madtiger27]

Always best to read through a thread as a general rule of thumb, especially if criticising someone’s shared experience. The OP has stated Apple have acknowledged the parcel has been recorded as in the postal system.

Where? Save me time.

BTW, i responded this AM to the other poster who quoted me originally. But, being the all knowing, you knew that already, right?

 

[Madtiger27]

If Apple provided the postage label and packaging, they already have the information needed to check whether the parcel is in the system or not. They have all the codes from the initial transaction.

Are you sure of the chain of events? You’re making a lot of assumptions.

That's right, even Apple, on their side, confirm they can see I handed the package to Royal Mail.
And that's why I'm so frustrated, because I don't understand how this whole situation is possible, especially coming from Apple.

I asked the Customer Service to, at least, tell me what motivated their decision not to replace my phone but they don't have the information. And when I ask for a contact they tell me there's no contact I can liaise with.

This is hearing one side. Why not post the receipt?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Where? Save me time.

Here you go:

That's right, even Apple, on their side, confirm they can see I handed the package to Royal Mail.
And that's why I'm so frustrated, because I don't understand how this whole situation is possible, especially coming from Apple.

I asked the Customer Service to, at least, tell me what motivated their decision not to replace my phone but they don't have the information. And when I ask for a contact they tell me there's no contact I can liaise with.

BTW, i responded this AM to the other poster who quoted me originally. But, being the all knowing, you knew that already, right?

‘Being the all knowing’? No need to be rude and condescending. I don’t understand the concept of your sentence here. I responded to a post of yours originally. Whether that post was responding to someone else prior is neither here or there.

 

[waquzy]

Why do you to see it in order to offer any constructive advice? What does providing a redacted document to you offer the OP in return? The privilege of your anonymous trust?

The OP is a newbie, who just registered in order to post a thread that reads "Do No Trust Apple"
That is a very bold claim, and frankly, it is not a very good start, I am afraid. Then he proceeds to explain what has happened to him etc. without providing any proof. In my eyes the guy has no credibility whatsoever.

He then posts a picture of his "friends" return packaging...

 

[macintoshmac]

Whether Apple makes things right without evidence is on their end. Great for all parties involved. But that does not mean that it was all on Apple as you wrote above, right?

I really do not see which words I used mean that it was all on Apple.

 

[svanstrom]

Getting the same vibes from this newbie as from the OP in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/do-you-have-a-non-bricked-air-pro-m1.2282711/

A case of apophenia? ?

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The OP is a newbie, who just registered in order to post a thread that reads "Do No Trust Apple"
That is a very bold claim, and frankly, it is not a very good start, I am afraid. Then he proceeds to explain what has happened to him etc. without providing any proof. In my eyes the guy has no credibility whatsoever.

He then posts a picture of his "friends" return packaging...

I just know from my experience with Royal Mail being poor and having had a frustrating experience with Apple myself in the past, what he is saying is not unbelievable. Whether he is new or not, his status here is the same as yours or mine. Post counts and time here don’t really come with any form of badge of honour for me.

Still, we all have our own opinions I suppose. Nice to see someone else from the Midlands here btw.

 

[waquzy]

I just know from my experience with Royal Mail being poor and having had a frustrating experience with Apple myself in the past, what he is saying is not unbelievable. Whether he is new or not, his status here is the same as yours or mine. Post counts and time here don’t really come with any form of badge of honour for me.

Still, we all have our own opinions I suppose. Nice to see someone else from the Midlands here btw.

Fair enough

 

[aRByJr]

Hopefully this happens to you. Would like to see your reaction then

Ok when this happens to me, the first thing I’ll do is come right here and let you know, even though, as i have said if I knew in the beginning that the insurance was way under for the product i was shipping i would either insurance the package myself or have Apple change the shipping,

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Ok when this happens to me, the first thing I’ll do is come right here and let you know, even though, as i have said if I knew in the beginning that the insurance was way under for the product i was shipping i would either insurance the package myself or have Apple change the shipping,

I wouldn’t. As soon as that parcel is checked in and you have proof, it’s not your problem if it gets lost. Sod paying out of my own pocket for extra insurance and wasting time trying to get extra responses from the company. Apple know how much the device is worth and it’s down to them to make sure they’ve covered it.