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Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,024
2,617
Los Angeles, CA
I've been working in cybersecurity for 21 years and a pro Mac user since 2003 (17" Powerbook - PowerPC G4).

Current machine is 32GB 13-inch, 2020, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports with 2TB disk and 2.3GHz Quad core i7 - it's a maxed out 13".

If you're comparing the MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Four Thunderbolt 3 Ports) to the MacBook Pro (M1, 13-inch, 2020), you do need to consider that the former is a Mac from a mature hardware platform whereas the latter, at least as far as a Mac is concerned, is still very new. I say this with specific regards to support for third party hardware and accessories. Certainly as far as external display output is concerned, while Apple has always had software issues with outputting reliably to external displays with macOS, the M1 represents yet a further step backwards in that only two displays are supported in total. That being said, as far as the base hardware is concerned; it using the same design as the MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Two Thunderbolt 3 Ports) that it replaces actually means that you are using a mature design that is less likely to have the kinds of defects and flaws typically associated with most newly redesigned MacBook Pros.

I read all the reviews on the new MacBook Pro M1 and have been hesitating since it's release. 2 weeks ago after WWDC read that the next MacBook Pros will likely be released in Q3/Q3 2021.

Unlike all previous Macs I've bought, I waited for the 2nd iteration of a new generation of the product, thought to try out the M1 with 16GB ram and 2TB disk for work.

Again, it's still using the same body design as its predecessor; from that standpoint it's not a first generation product. The computing guts are all new (to the Mac at least), but this is true of every Apple Silicon SoC across all of Apple's other product lines every year as well.

My experience in the 2 weeks:
- It doesn't feel right - It's a Pro with the same chip as my 2021 iPad 11" and MacBook Air. It just doesn't feel like a pro device and different to the others in the product line.

The word "Pro" when used after "MacBook Pro" and in the same string of words as "13-inch" has always been more about marketing than it ever has been about the device being a professional grade computer. It's not and never has been a professional grade computer. Apple makes one of these computers. It's called the Mac Pro. You could argue that the 16-inch MacBook Pro and the 27-inch iMac are also professional grade computers (though I'd counter-argue that they're more squarely in the "prosumer grade computers" territory with everything lower-end being consumer-focused). The M1 13" MacBook Pro IS similar to the M1 Air. You get a fan for sustained workloads, a better microphone system, and the Touch Bar. Otherwise, they're the same computer. This is similar to how there's a 2-port M1 iMac and a 4-port M1 iMac, with the latter having better cooling, two additional USB-C ports, Ethernet and Touch ID.

But honestly, it sounds like you're more tripping over marketing here than anything else.


- The performance is OK - but there's still delays and drag when you push the laptop and when using a 2nd screen.
- Was disappointed that you can only connect 1 external monitor (have 2 4k LGs) and have the Apple XDR arriving next week. I work with 2 external monitors and the laptop screen.

Again, this is the only "1st Gen" limitation of the M1 in a 2-port 13-inch MacBook Pro over its immediate predecessor. Apple Silicon has never had to perform on more than two displays before. Apple had to make a step behind, but figured that with these consumer grade products, it wouldn't be an issue. Largely, they are correct. Between May and the end of October of 2020, if you needed to drive multiple 4K displays, you'd probably already be gravitating toward the 4-port 13-inch MacBook Pro rather than the 2-port model anyway. Incidentally, the latter is the model that made the jump to Apple Silicon. It's still serving the same role in the lineup as before. Just with Apple's chips instead of Intel's.

- fans were not used as much (only time was when photos was doing some machine learning to sort out the albums, faces, objects etc)
- read all the reviews of photo/video encoding improvements etc - I don't use the Mac for that in security.

The M1 builds upon T2's pedigree when it comes to security. Then again, if you're talking about the cybersecurity field, I'm not all that sure of what you need to do on a Mac that you are going to have a good time doing on a new processor architecture at this point in time. You probably need native binaries to get most of your work done effectively. If Apple Silicon native binaries were not available when you got your M1 Pro, you were never going to have a smooth experience.

- Only has 2 thunderbolt/usbc ports - I use the external monitor (only 1 now), usbc security keys (ubikey) and other inputs - now can't with only 2 ports. I need 4.

Why did you buy this computer if you knew it wasn't going to meet your needs? Clearly the 4-port Intel model suits your needs in ways that the 2020 M1 13-inch model does not and won't for a long while, if ever.

- 16GB ram is not enough for pro users, I was already hitting limits when you've been working with 32GB in my field.

What do you do that requires so much RAM? Incidentally, both the M1 MacBook Air and the M1 2-port 13-inch MacBook Pro have the exact same maximum RAM capacities as the Intel Macs they directly replaced in the line-up. Which is to say that if a 2-port 13-inch MacBook Pro wasn't the right Mac for you in July of 2020, it still isn't the right Mac for you today. The only difference is that, now it's plenty faster when running native applications. But that difference isn't enough to negate that it's still not the right Mac for you.

- I remember when we migrated from PPC to Intel and Rosetta was used for universal binaries - took about 2 years to get there. This time migrating from x86 to ARM has to go through the same process. The current generation of apps just haven't had time to be recompiled to be M1 (ARM) native yet. So you're relying on emulation which is always going to be slower than actual hardware

While this is true for the most part, it's a bit different this time around. Rosetta 2 doesn't take as big of a speed hit now. And Apple Silicon Macs will run Intel binaries at the same speed as Intel Macs do, if not slightly faster. It just won't be the same speed as if the binary were Apple Silicon native or in the Universal Binary 2 format. But, your mileage will vary by app.

- Hardware fault on the last day - quality wasn't right for me - the screen just developed a large (2cm) vertical line on the right 1/3 side of the screen and the lower horizontal edge of the screen developed about 15 horizontal rows of flickering pixels. That was the last straw and was the decision to return it with the experience I had. Thankfully it happened on the last day to return it under the 14 day return policy.

Those kinds of defects will happen on Apple products. They'll also happen on non-Apple products. I'm not saying you should tolerate it. I'm just saying that it's not out of the ordinary.

For me, the 2020 maxed out 13" Pro is a pro machine and suites my needs with native x86 applications for now.

The fact that it suits your needs now is all that matters. However, you are fooling yourself if you think that's a Pro machine. No 13-inch MacBook Pro is a "Pro" machine. They all are using U-series Intel processors and are no different than any other PC using U-series Intel processors. Business-class? Maybe. Pro? Absolutely not.


I will wait until the M1X or M2:
- differentiate the product line from the iPad and MacBook Air

Again, I'm not sure why this matters from a functional standpoint. If the Air serves your purposes, go with the Air. If the Pro serves your purposes, go with the Pro. If they're functionally identical for your purposes, get whichever one is cheaper and use the rest of the money you save to buy AppleCare+. Not sure why Apple's marketing, however absurd, holds weight for you here, given that your concerns otherwise seem to be more based on practical use cases.

- hopefully have a new body

If you were trying to avoid going with a first generation product, a Mac with a new body IS a first generation product. Not only that, but, given that most MacBook Pros of a new body style (dating back to the very first "MacBook Pro" branded Mac) have had reliability issues over time, you probably don't want to buy the first Macs that use that body style anyway.

- for the new M1X/M2 cpu to provide the Pro feel and experience

First off why does "Pro feel and experience" matter more than something that is functional? That sounds more like feel-good marketing nonsense and less like any actual practical need.

ANY Apple Silicon Mac, including one with an M1, is going to outperform the Ice Lake Intel CPUs that you have in the 2020 4-port 13-inch MacBook Pros by a fair margin on most tasks. If your apps run poorly in Rosetta 2, an M1X and/or an M2 SoC is not going to solve that.

- for apps to have time to be recompiled to ARM by then.

For now, will wait until Q3/Q4 to see what apple has up its sleeves!

I'll spoil it for you: Apple is going to announce MacBook Pros with a new body style. You will be tempted by them as many on here will be. But you'll be disappointed when they inevitably have first generation issues. You'll go back to your 4-port 2020 Intel 13" model kicking yourself for replacing a one and a half year old computer that works with a new one that STILL doesn't run your Intel binaries natively and has engineering/design flaws that will surely have you feeling like this isn't a "Pro" product.
 
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Mr. Dee

macrumors 603
Dec 4, 2003
5,990
12,840
Jamaica
I have been happy with mine, just didn’t like that it killed my 3 year old hard disk. So, I decided I need to get a separate external hard disk to keep it backed up. I have two other devices that I still use that I need to keep backed up, these include a Surface Pro and a 2015 MacBook Pro. Something with the disk controller software or the USB 4 port on the M1 corrupted my external.

outside of that concern, it’s great machine to use, great battery life (if you use only Safari), it’s a modern Mac that I’ve needed for a while now since I have stopped upgrades on my 2015 at Mojave because I want to keep my existing CS6 and VMWare Fusion.
 

Hoo Doo Dude

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2010
205
250
I'm the happy owner of an M1 MacBook Air and couldn't be happier. I have 38 years experience in cyber security, systems administration and network administration. I did a meticulous study of the M1 Air before buying and knew what it was capable of, how many ports there were, which monitors would be a good match and selected a expansion hub that would fit my needs for desktop use. My use with the Air has been flawless. I haven't found anything that wouldn't run on it except of course Windows but I have no use for that any longer. The M1 Air has been faster more reliable and more of a joy to use than any machine I've used in the previous 38 years. As far as that business about the M1 processor being used in both the MacBooks and the iPads, I can see no reason that matters in the least about either machine.

The original poster picked the wrong machine for his use, that's all there is to it.
 

MrGunny94

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2016
1,148
675
Malaga, Spain
Honestly I have been working as a Cloud / Solution Architect engineer for 8 years and this Air has been the best computer I have ever have.

Ever since we migrated to the Citrix Virtual Environment that I have been looking for a laptop with a great screen / great battery life and doesn't have a fan.

This was it.
 
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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,142
1,900
Anchorage, AK
There are so many assumptions and logical inconsistencies with the OPs initial post, starting with his "It's a Pro with the same chip as my 2021 iPad 11" and MacBook Air. It just doesn't feel like a pro device and different to the others in the product line." statement and going downhill from there. OP doesn't even understand the difference between emulation and translation prior to execution (which is what Rosetta does as a one-time process for x86-native apps instead of emulating an x86 processor). Apple also incorporated certain x86 functions into the M1 processors for two reasons: improve performance for those non-native apps and create a lighter workload for Rosetta when it does the initial translation from x86 to ARM-based code.
 

hagjohn

macrumors 68000
Aug 27, 2006
1,866
3,708
Pennsylvania
What?

1625335954747.png
 

staypuftforums

macrumors 6502
Jun 27, 2021
412
855
Strange that you'd consider the i7 more of a "pro" chip, when the M1 chip you are unhappy with positively blows the doors off that i7.
 
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Queen6

macrumors G4
Personally I think Apple really need to simplify their product lineup.

MacBook Air: Ultrabook
MacBook 13/iBook: Standard Laptop
MacBook Pro: High-end.

The 13” has never been a professional machine in my opinion.
My 13" MBP's have paid for my kid's private schools and then some, so IMO they are plenty professional enough for many a role ?

It's never solely the hardware, rather more about what the user can do with the said hardware. Ultimately the end result delivered to the client. Latest Mac is a 2020 13" base model MBP, no doubt it will serve just as well as it's predecessors, more so given the increased performance of the M1 SOC.

As for most things these days with a "Pro" moniker slapped on, it's purely sales & marketing for the masses and a lot of branded professional gear for that matter. No need to throw money at the likes of Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo etc. Portable Workstation's are a good example, if not needing Zeon CPU & EEC RAM a 15"/17" gaming notebooks serve just as well if not better, just need to wipe the drives and tone down the light show ?

This 17" Asus ROG has been round the world several times pre COVID on multiple engineering projects without a hitch. Cost a dam site less than any HP EliteBook, Dell Precision or a Lenovo ThinkPad. Seriously quick in it's heyday, easily showing up many a "Pro" notebook as it was designed for one thing and one thing only - Sustained Performance.

As for Apple's portable Mac line-up that will settle in time as the Intel Mac's are depreciated with Air & MBP being adequate for the majority; Air is the new MacBook, 13" MBP offers more features over the Air, 16" MBP offering higher performance for those that need in a portable format.

If anything Apple should introduce a 16" Air for those that want the larger display, yet do not require the additional features/performance of the MBP, equally Apple & money, so unlikely to happen.

Q-6
 
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richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,432
2,186
Look guys... the OP "should have known"..

Now that he made this thread showing what a poorly thought out mistake he made, let's really take him to task and beat him up about it.

Time to show him who's boss!



(major /s)
And deservedly so …..

Really though it is quite difficult to plan and purchase hardware at present, and now more than ever a little transparency on the forthcoming release schedule from Apple would be useful [but we will never get it].

For example I know for a fact [as announced in May] that HP / Dell / Lenovo are all releasing their 11th gen intel workstation laptops with 3080 GPU’s in July. This makes it easy for me right now to plan the purchases for the studio as we are expanding.

As of this moment, there is not a single machine made by Apple that meets our needs [I wont buy an Intel machine from Apple again]. So basically all it means is I have to change the office to PC’s. Pretty simple really as the M1 is not good enough for our work plus we cannot hook up an EGPU [if we could then M1’s would be fine].

the M1 pro model is a low end prosumer laptop that suffices for those pro’s who just email and use basic apps. Not for 3D graphic intensive workloads like ours.

As one of my old bosses used to say - this is getting boring and tedious.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,151
14,574
New Hampshire
And deservedly so …..

Really though it is quite difficult to plan and purchase hardware at present, and now more than ever a little transparency on the forthcoming release schedule from Apple would be useful [but we will never get it].

For example I know for a fact [as announced in May] that HP / Dell / Lenovo are all releasing their 11th gen intel workstation laptops with 3080 GPU’s in July. This makes it easy for me right now to plan the purchases for the studio as we are expanding.

As of this moment, there is not a single machine made by Apple that meets our needs [I wont buy an Intel machine from Apple again]. So basically all it means is I have to change the office to PC’s. Pretty simple really as the M1 is not good enough for our work plus we cannot hook up an EGPU [if we could then M1’s would be fine].

the M1 pro model is a low end prosumer laptop that suffices for those pro’s who just email and use basic apps. Not for 3D graphic intensive workloads like ours.

As one of my old bosses used to say - this is getting boring and tedious.

That's why I gave in and bought the Mini M1 - to use next to my Windows desktop. I would need, at a minimum, two Mini M1s to reproduce my full environment and I'm not sure that one piece of software would run well enough on M1 (I need to experiment on that). The M1 is nice for my office workload but that's about it so far. I really wanted an M1X, large iMac, Mini or even a MacBook Pro.

At this time, we don't even know if there will be any products in 2021.
 

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,432
2,186
That's why I gave in and bought the Mini M1 - to use next to my Windows desktop. I would need, at a minimum, two Mini M1s to reproduce my full environment and I'm not sure that one piece of software would run well enough on M1 (I need to experiment on that). The M1 is nice for my office workload but that's about it so far. I really wanted an M1X, large iMac, Mini or even a MacBook Pro.

At this time, we don't even know if there will be any products in 2021.
Funny you should say that, as I have one in the box ready to return. Tested it out, and simply doesnt even come close to my maxed MBP 16” [despite what everyone says on this site on how amazing the M1 is…] in GPU performance. Nice for basic office tasks though, however I need exactly the same as you - large iMac/ mini pro or MBP.

The mini was bought for a new contractor to use. He is going to get my MBP now and most likely I will be getting a PC workstation laptop again [despite the Zbook studio G7 from HP making the 16” MBP feel like a fridge!]. Windows 11 actually looks quite nice…… still windows though.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
And deservedly so …..

Really though it is quite difficult to plan and purchase hardware at present, and now more than ever a little transparency on the forthcoming release schedule from Apple would be useful [but we will never get it].

For example I know for a fact [as announced in May] that HP / Dell / Lenovo are all releasing their 11th gen intel workstation laptops with 3080 GPU’s in July. This makes it easy for me right now to plan the purchases for the studio as we are expanding.

As of this moment, there is not a single machine made by Apple that meets our needs [I wont buy an Intel machine from Apple again]. So basically all it means is I have to change the office to PC’s. Pretty simple really as the M1 is not good enough for our work plus we cannot hook up an EGPU [if we could then M1’s would be fine].

the M1 pro model is a low end prosumer laptop that suffices for those pro’s who just email and use basic apps. Not for 3D graphic intensive workloads like ours.

As one of my old bosses used to say - this is getting boring and tedious.
Pretty decent summary of the situation today. The M1 Mac's are impressive for what they offer, yet they are not heavy lifters by any means nor designed to be so. For CPU bound tasks the M1's can pull ahead, however the are GPU, RAM, IO & storage limited for many workflows.

M1 Air, MacBook Pro & Mini are what they are; first Gen products in a well developed, tried and proven chassis. Makes sense as Apple has a tendency to error when introducing a new design and or technology. No doubt the instruction from the top for the launch of Apple Silicon was one of being flawless. Very likely Apple has more than had it's fill of negativity having all it's portable Mac's on extended warranty solely due to poor design.

Where it will get interesting is the next iteration with the new 24" iMac illustrating the new design language. Hopefully Apple wont be so obsessed with "thin" with the MBP as the 16" needs to be solid/ridged with adequate ports.

Q-6
 
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MrGunny94

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2016
1,148
675
Malaga, Spain
Honestly the base model is worth getting if you want a machine you can take anywhere and work and do your daily stuff. I have the Air and was worried about the lack of fan and the 8GB and it turns it's fine.
 
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gv23

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 25, 2012
15
21
I've been working in cybersecurity for 21 years and a pro Mac user since 2003 (17" Powerbook - PowerPC G4).

Current machine is 32GB 13-inch, 2020, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports with 2TB disk and 2.3GHz Quad core i7 - it's a maxed out 13".

I read all the reviews on the new MacBook Pro M1 and have been hesitating since it's release. 2 weeks ago after WWDC read that the next MacBook Pros will likely be released in Q3/Q3 2021.

Unlike all previous Macs I've bought, I waited for the 2nd iteration of a new generation of the product, thought to try out the M1 with 16GB ram and 2TB disk for work.

My experience in the 2 weeks:
- It doesn't feel right - It's a Pro with the same chip as my 2021 iPad 11" and MacBook Air. It just doesn't feel like a pro device and different to the others in the product line.
- The performance is OK - but there's still delays and drag when you push the laptop and when using a 2nd screen.
- Was disappointed that you can only connect 1 external monitor (have 2 4k LGs) and have the Apple XDR arriving next week. I work with 2 external monitors and the laptop screen.
- fans were not used as much (only time was when photos was doing some machine learning to sort out the albums, faces, objects etc)
- read all the reviews of photo/video encoding improvements etc - I don't use the Mac for that in security.
- Only has 2 thunderbolt/usbc ports - I use the external monitor (only 1 now), usbc security keys (ubikey) and other inputs - now can't with only 2 ports. I need 4.
- 16GB ram is not enough for pro users, I was already hitting limits when you've been working with 32GB in my field.
- I remember when we migrated from PPC to Intel and Rosetta was used for universal binaries - took about 2 years to get there. This time migrating from x86 to ARM has to go through the same process. The current generation of apps just haven't had time to be recompiled to be M1 (ARM) native yet. So you're relying on emulation which is always going to be slower than actual hardware
- Hardware fault on the last day - quality wasn't right for me - the screen just developed a large (2cm) vertical line on the right 1/3 side of the screen and the lower horizontal edge of the screen developed about 15 horizontal rows of flickering pixels. That was the last straw and was the decision to return it with the experience I had. Thankfully it happened on the last day to return it under the 14 day return policy.

For me, the 2020 maxed out 13" Pro is a pro machine and suites my needs with native x86 applications for now. I will wait until the M1X or M2:
- differentiate the product line from the iPad and MacBook Air
- hopefully have a new body
- for the new M1X/M2 cpu to provide the Pro feel and experience
- for apps to have time to be recompiled to ARM by then.

For now, will wait until Q3/Q4 to see what apple has up its sleeves!
Now THIS is more Pro. Just ordered:
  • Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
  • 64GB unified memory
  • 4TB SSD storage
  • 96W USB-C Power Adapter
  • 14-inch Liquid Retina XDR display
  • Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port
  • Backlit Magic Keyboard with Touch ID - US English

Glad I took back the M1
 

richinaus

macrumors 68020
Oct 26, 2014
2,432
2,186
Now THIS is more Pro. Just ordered:
  • Apple M1 Max with 10-core CPU, 32-core GPU, 16-core Neural Engine
  • 64GB unified memory
  • 4TB SSD storage
  • 96W USB-C Power Adapter
  • 14-inch Liquid Retina XDR display
  • Three Thunderbolt 4 ports, HDMI port, SDXC card slot, MagSafe 3 port
  • Backlit Magic Keyboard with Touch ID - US English

Glad I took back the M1
Exactly. The M1 was never a pro machine, despite those on the forum who thought it was.

I ordered the exact same model but 2tb ssd and cant wait to test it out.
 
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gv23

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Jun 25, 2012
15
21
Just received my new M1 Max. Threw a lot at it, gave it large workload when setting things up. And the Chip (GPU and CPU) performed beautifully and did not even need fans. The intel i7 would have the fans on about 90% of the time even for small workloads.

I'm very impressed, well done Apple for making a pro MacBook Pro!
 

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Strider64

macrumors 68000
Dec 1, 2015
1,511
13,533
Suburb of Detroit
These type of threads always remind me of the days when I was a PC person and was building my own computers. I was always chasing that "perfect" computer. I did it so much I kind of lost track of on what role a computer is suppose to take. A computer is a tool that helps you create or process the work that you do. It's a tool most of the time, but you can entertain with it as well. Some tools are cheap and other are more expensive. Sure my MacBook Pro 13" M1 might not be considered professional by some, but to me it is as it does what I want it to. If I was a video person who was rendering a lot of videos or videos that were intensive I would upgrade to a computer that can handle that type of work load. However, I do the occasional video, I edit my photographs to make them presentable and do a lot of web development that doesn't tax the 13" M1. Don't get me wrong I would love a higher MacBook Pro model, but I am happy with what I have and I have money to spend on other things that I am interested it.
 

deeddawg

macrumors G5
Jun 14, 2010
12,468
6,571
US
These type of threads always remind me of the days when I was a PC person and was building my own computers. I was always chasing that "perfect" computer. I did it so much I kind of lost track of on what role a computer is suppose to take. A computer is a tool that helps you create or process the work that you do. It's a tool most of the time, but you can entertain with it as well. Some tools are cheap and other are more expensive. Sure my MacBook Pro 13" M1 might not be considered professional by some, but to me it is as it does what I want it to. If I was a video person who was rendering a lot of videos or videos that were intensive I would upgrade to a computer that can handle that type of work load. However, I do the occasional video, I edit my photographs to make them presentable and do a lot of web development that doesn't tax the 13" M1. Don't get me wrong I would love a higher MacBook Pro model, but I am happy with what I have and I have money to spend on other things that I am interested it.

Well, it's MacRumors...

People buy the wrong tool for their requirements, declare for the world "it's not ready", then later buy the correct tool and are finally pleased.

Folks who really needed four+ ports and multiple external monitor support should've known the two-port M1 models weren't going to meet their needs.
 
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Wolf1701

macrumors regular
Sep 16, 2006
231
229
These type of threads always remind me of the days when I was a PC person and was building my own computers. I was always chasing that "perfect" computer. I did it so much I kind of lost track of on what role a computer is suppose to take.
but this was passion, you can't compare passion and real usefulness ;)

even today, with a past like yours, I feel that wants to try a M1 Max just for the fun of it.
 

pshufd

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2013
10,151
14,574
New Hampshire
The 2021 MacBook Pro 16 is the wrong tool for me but Apple is fairly limited in what they offer. The M1 provides plenty of power and performance for the vast majority and that includes me. But there are some things that I wanted on the 16 (like the larger screen) that I can't get. Yet. They will fill out their product line and there will be more choices but it may take a year or two. In the meantime, I have a beast of a machine.
 
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