Reverse Switcher

[wakerider017]

I started to read this thread but it comes down to this:

"Bye! Don't let the door slap your arse on the way out!"

mature...

 

[wakerider017]

No need to turn this into a flame war, people.

I think it's fair to say that Apple does not meet everyone's needs as far as a PC goes and that Macs do have their flaws. We have had threads in the past about "switching back" that were started by trolls but I don't think that's the case here so let's keep it civil.

With the current Mac lineup being what it is, two related groups of computer users are still largely dissatisfied with Macs: people who spend a lot of time playing 3D games at high-res and people who build/overclock for the fun of it. Macs can't be built from components (legally anyway), and the problem with a "gamer" oriented machine is that it uses some specialized hardware that the vast majority of other computer users do not need.

I think the best solution to this would be for Apple to release an iMac or (preferably) Mac Pro derivative specially designed for and marketed to gamers that would slot in somewhere between $1600-$2000 and would focus on a high performance single CPU/GPU combo using an off-the shelf motherboard design similar to those popular for gaming PCs. It would essentially mimic the specs of some popular gaming PCs but also feature OS X and iLife.

Thanks for that post, couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[cmvsm]

A lot of you guys act as if OS X is a God Send... It is great, but not with out its own flaws...

As anything. It is a machine after all. But a damn good one at that!

It does lock up, it does have it's problems and if you don't believe take a look around the forums... You guys may not want to talk about it, but I quite often have to use force quit and I have gotten 1-2 kernel panics in a year. The OS is not perfect... It has problems.

1-2 in one year huh? For the record, I haven't had a kernal panic in almost 2 years, and I use my system 5-6 hours a day. Even at one to two panics in one year, that beats the pants off XP. I had to reformat my drive when I used to build PC's at least every few months due to all of the internet trash and lost files or bad links in the registry. And of course, Vista is another nightmare in the making. How many patches have already come out for it? Too many. You can talk about the great pieces of hardware that's out there for the PC, because there is quite a bit to crow about. But DON'T try and sell me on a Microsoft OS. You are just wasting yours and my time. And you know it anyway, otherwise you wouldn't be looking at Apple hardware in the first place.

How about the problem with macs where you can't turn off the auto dim. there is an option to turn it off, but it does not work... Apple knows about this problem, but there is no fix....

Why is this a problem? Its an energy saving feature that I welcome. No different than a semi sleep mode for the monitor. You'll have to do better than that. WAY better.

To be quite honest I have found OS X Tiger to be no more stable than XP.

Now that's quite laughable. You're starting to believe your own nonsense aren't you? The only thing that I can attribute this nonsensical comment to might be your age. Just how long have you been working with Windows OS's? If its been a short time, you are forgiven due to inexperience. If its been a long time, then you should know better.

Also EB GAMES is undoubtedly gear toward console games. There are quit a few PC Games in both circuit city and best buy. Just b/c you don't see a bunch of PC games on the wall in a brick and mortar store does not mean that no one wants them... I can tell you right now there are more PC games out there than all your consoles put together.

Just a few years ago, EB games was virtually ALL PC games. That has changed quite significantly. According to NPD, overall retail sales of PC games increased by only 1% in 06' versus 05'. This was a fall of 14% from 2004's total sales. So even though there was a 1% increase over 2005, which is basically flat, it was still down 14% compared to 2004. There are only a couple of titles that are floating the PC game boat so to speak, one of which is WOW. Without it, 2006's numbers would look much worse.

In contrast, console game sales were up 35% from 2005 to 2006. I'm sure that you can do the numbers and see where all of this is going.

Also did you think that a lot of games are now purchased from online stores like newegg... If you have a PC and play games, chances are you have the internet and know how to you use. A lot of games can even be downloaded now.

All outlets are included in the above figures.

 

[psingh01]

I agree with the original poster. For the most part I've been happy with the mac laptops, but the "desktops" have been overpriced and lacking in the hardware department. As it goes you can build a very good pc for MUCH cheaper cost. As nice as OS X is, the OS isn't what I ultimately want to run.

 

[davekarn]

honestly, I think that they will offer a BTO GPU by the time of the Leopard release. Makes sense to me anyways

 

[Alloye]

For me, the "Mac Experience" is more about OS X and its applications and less about the box it runs on. But it wasn't always that way for me. Prior to my switch in 2003, I used to build my own PC hardware and obsess over every spec of every component. It was a time when the computer itself was far more important to me than what I ultimately did with it.

Today, things are exactly the opposite. Now I care more about enjoying the time I spend actually using a computer. I no longer worry about having the world's fastest CPU, or the latest video card, or 8MB more cache on my hard drive than everyone else. Now I just want things to work as they should without any intervention from me.

Anyway, best of luck to you as you transition back to Windows. I have plenty of old friends over there who still love to start with an empty tower and do their own thing.

 

[wakerider017]

As anything. It is a machine after all. But a damn good one at that!



1-2 in one year huh? For the record, I haven't had a kernal panic in almost 2 years, and I use my system 5-6 hours a day. Even at one to two panics in one year, that beats the pants off XP. I had to reformat my drive when I used to build PC's at least every few months due to all of the internet trash and lost files or bad links in the registry. And of course, Vista is another nightmare in the making. How many patches have already come out for it? Too many. You can talk about the great pieces of hardware that's out there for the PC, because there is quite a bit to crow about. But DON'T try and sell me on a Microsoft OS. You are just wasting yours and my time. And you know it anyway, otherwise you wouldn't be looking at Apple hardware in the first place.



Why is this a problem? Its an energy saving feature that I welcome. No different than a semi sleep mode for the monitor. You'll have to do better than that. WAY better.



Now that's quite laughable. You're starting to believe your own nonsense aren't you? The only thing that I can attribute this nonsensical comment to might be your age. Just how long have you been working with Windows OS's? If its been a short time, you are forgiven due to inexperience. If its been a long time, then you should know better.



Just a few years ago, EB games was virtually ALL PC games. That has changed quite significantly. According to NPD, overall retail sales of PC games increased by only 1% in 06' versus 05'. This was a fall of 14% from 2004's total sales. So even though there was a 1% increase over 2005, which is basically flat, it was still down 14% compared to 2004. There are only a couple of titles that are floating the PC game boat so to speak, one of which is WOW. Without it, 2006's numbers would look much worse.

In contrast, console game sales were up 35% from 2005 to 2006. I'm sure that you can do the numbers and see where all of this is going.



All outlets are included in the above figures.

My god man there is so much rubbish in there. You are really full of yourself. You can only see your side of the argument..

I refuse to stoop to your level and turn this into a hate fest... Seriously get a grip.

You want to make comments about my age and at the same time your making posts like a hormonal teenager... Right....

Your looking for an argument and I am not going to give you one. To avoid conflict I will not be communicating with you on this website.

Have a good night sir.

 

[wakerider017]

For me, the "Mac Experience" is more about OS X and its applications and less about the box it runs on. But it wasn't always that way for me. Prior to my switch in 2003, I used to build my own PC hardware and obsess over every spec of every component. It was a time when the computer itself was far more important to me than what I ultimately did with it.

Today, things are exactly the opposite. Now I care more about enjoying the time I spend actually using a computer. I no longer worry about having the world's fastest CPU, or the latest video card, or 8MB more cache on my hard drive than everyone else. Now I just want things to work as they should without any intervention from me.

Anyway, best of luck to you as you transition back to Windows. I have plenty of old friends over there who still love to start with an empty tower and do their own thing.

Thanks bud!

It really is a personal preference thing. I guess you could say to each his own.

 

[aliquis-]

Well I don't mind the mobile cpus or memory, sure the memory are lower clocked but I doubt that will affect anything that much, the cpus for sure isn't a show stopper for me.

The graphics IS, and the ****** graphics panels they use even thought they want to see themself as a premium product.

I to would have prefered a normal machine with better balanced hardware and OS X.

I doubt Apple will release OS X for regular PCs, thought it's weird why not considering how well the hacks run.

But now adays their products seem to have moved away more and more from the os to the machines and over to whatever accessories, mp3-players and phones, whatever that has to do with the parts I'm actually intrested in ;D

 

[aliquis-]

The platter sizes are physically different. That'd be why.

I don't quite understand why you want more speed. My father's 24" C2D iMac does everything he'd ever want to just about instantly. Now, if you're a gamer I have no sympathy for you.

If one isn't a gamer why do one need a 2.4GHz C2D to begin with? Why not a 1GHz P3?

 

[aliquis-]

Seek time is higher.

Seek time of drives spinning at the same speed should be similair, shouldn't it?

But the data at any given time are probably equaly dense on a 2.5 and a 3.5" drive, but the 3.5" drive got bigger plates which therefor get more data / spin and therefor higher MB/s.

 

[cmvsm]

My god man there is so much rubbish in there. You are really full of yourself. You can only see your side of the argument..

I refuse to stoop to your level and turn this into a hate fest... Seriously get a grip.

You want to make comments about my age and at the same time your making posts like a hormonal teenager... Right....

Your looking for an argument and I am not going to give you one. To avoid conflict I will not be communicating with you on this website.

Have a good night sir.

I gave you facts, not rubbish. Your reply is indicative of something quite the opposite. If you are going to state things incorrectly, be prepared to furnish supporting figures that's all. You were wrong in terms of the gaming market, so man up and take it and leave this 'good night sir' crap at the door.

 

[aliquis-]

Meh, If you got on a really fast computer you would be singing a different tune. Ya the iMac can do everyday things quickly...

But I live in photoshop and often use video editing apps...


Plus, what's wrong with a few games on the side when all your work is done?



You know everyone can say that an apple computer is not "meant" for games... But hey, look at the half a dozen stories posted on MacRumors about big title games coming to Mac soon.

Do you think a 2600Pro is going to cut the mustard for the next version of Unreal? Or what about the poor guys with the 2400xt?

Again I am not a Mac hater.... Macs are currently just not for me....

Apple is so focused on design, but they put the actual meat of the computer on the back burner this time.


P.S. That is cool about the whole laptop HDD thing... I have really not worked with them much...

But that is all kind of irrelevant. My point was the thing is built like a laptop, and the fact that it uses a 3.5" HDD does not really make a big difference.

"macs not for games" are the lamest excuse ever.

Sure they aren't, BECAUSE THEY SUCK, but why woulnd't mac users want games aswell? How many doesn't buy a mac because they suck for games? Why don't Apple want to sell hardware to the people who REALLY are into premium gear?

If there where no games we could still be using C64s, not that they couldn't do gaming, but uhm, anyway =P

 

[aliquis-]

Personally I would want Apple to just release something like a shuttle.

Sell the case, motherboard, cooling, keyboard + mouse and software in a package and let people put in whatever cpu, ram, hdd, gfx they want =P

Like the mini but good

 

[wakerider017]

I gave you facts, not rubbish. Your reply is indicative of something quite the opposite. If you are going to state things incorrectly, be prepared to furnish supporting figures that's all. You were wrong in terms of the gaming market, so man up and take it and leave this 'good night sir' crap at the door.

Your numbers are bogus, they mean nothing.

So what if console sales are up... was your head in a hold or were 3 brand new console systems released during that time period... Do you think that might have anything to do with it?

Honestly think before you speak!

What you did was like a retailer taking his net earnings from December (Holiday month) and figuring he would make that for all 12 months of the year.

All of this information is taken out of context and manipulated to make your point.



I will not continue his conversation! Because I do not wish to speak with you does not mean that your point must be correct. it just means I don't want to waste my time on a rude person like yourself.

 

[BamaDMD]

I am a recent switcher to Mac

I love this machine. I photoshop alot and I use final cut. Before this I was a PC user for 15 years and an Amiga user for about 5 before that. I have bought, built and still have numerous PCs over the years. I have had the top of the line Desktops and mobile computers too. I bought an iMac before I bought a pro just to see if I would like a Mac and surprise its great. I thought if this was something I would use that I would need to eventually get a Mac Pro. But I was surprised How fast this machine was. I used Vegas (the pro version) and photoshop on my PC. Photoshop runs smoother with less hangups on the iMac than on my PC and rendering and video runs better on the Mac also. Im sorry but you don't know what your talking about. I always felt that I had to keep up with the Jones's in hard ware too in the PC world, But Jobs with OX 10 has done something that some don't understand. He has managed to create a CPU that will work and function better than most high end PC's with better hardware. You apparently are way disallusioned or you have never really tried much as you say on the Mac. Take this from a long time CPU user...... The Mac is the real deal and runs much better and more stable than any of my 16 different pcs that I have right now. Several dells, custom gaming pc, motion mobile, sony vaio, and local built pcs.


P.S. This is on a WHITE CD2 20" with 2megs of ram Just ordered the new imac (according to Mac World will be about 40% faster than the WHite)

 

[wakerider017]

I love this machine. I photoshop alot and I use final cut. Before this I was a PC user for 15 years and an Amiga user for about 5 before that. I have bought, built and still have numerous PCs over the years. I have had the top of the line Desktops and mobile computers too. I bought an iMac before I bought a pro just to see if I would like a Mac and surprise its great. I thought if this was something I would use that I would need to eventually get a Mac Pro. But I was surprised How fast this machine was. I used Vegas (the pro version) and photoshop on my PC. Photoshop runs smoother with less hangups on the iMac than on my PC and rendering and video runs better on the Mac also. Im sorry but you don't know what your talking about. I always felt that I had to keep up with the Jones's in hard ware too in the PC world, But Jobs with OX 10 has done something that some don't understand. He has managed to create a CPU that will work and function better than most high end PC's with better hardware. You apparently are way disallusioned or you have never really tried much as you say on the Mac. Take this from a long time CPU user...... The Mac is the real deal and runs much better and more stable than any of my 16 different pcs that I have right now. Several dells, compaque, custom gaming pc, motion mobile, sony vaio, and local built pcs.


Thanks and have a nice day keeping up with the Jones'

P.S. This is on a WHITE CD2 20" with 2megs of ram Just ordered the new imac (according to Mac World will be about 40% faster than the WHite)

If I am keeping up with the Joneses then what the hell are you doing upgrading from a White C2D iMac to a Silver C2D iMac? Lol. Can you say hypocrite?

40% speed increase! AHAHAHA! You are sadly misinformed!! You can expect a 5% overall increase in performance. In other words neglible... http://www.primatelabs.ca/blog/2007/08/24-inch-imac-performance-august-2007/

Your entire argument is you like your mac better because it feels faster and less hangups.. Hmmmm, this does not mean much as you could be comparing your new 1500 dollar computer to an old 300 dollar dell.

 

[aliquis-]

Linux isn't a crappy OS though. But I doubt any gamer would be satisfied with it.

True since it's not an OS at all

 

[aliquis-]

compaque

with 2megs of ram

Nice with a fellow amigan but I don't know if I will trust anyone who think the name of the brand is "compaque" and those new imac has 2 megs of ram ;D

Also if it's Photoshop CS2 we are talking about there is no chance in hell that it's faster than on the PC. Photoshop CS3 maybe.

 

[L19L91L]

We're dealing with a person who wants better hardware, I assume, for gaming.. Arguing about it will not make the Mac in his room magically sprout a new GPU. What I have to say here is that if you want a new state of the art gaming rig don't get a MAC. You won't have to worry about pathetic hardware then. Issue dissolved.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

honestly, I think that they will offer a BTO GPU by the time of the Leopard release. Makes sense to me anyways

We should see an 8800GTX or Radeon HD 2900 (but not likely both ) included in the next Mac Pro update as a BTO option.

While I think that the OP has good reasons to stick with Windows for the present, my next machine will be a Mac Pro which will be dual-booted for both productivity and gaming. I built a PC for gaming that is now obsolete, and rather than build another one and buy a new Mac I'm going to try to do it all in one machine.

 

[spac3man]

I agree there is a gap between the iMac and Mac Pro.

I'm currently doing Graphic Design and eventually would like a Mac because of the stable and easy to use OS X. I was so looking forward to the iMac. I read it was going to be revolutionary. Well it wasn't. It looks worse. Brush aluminum, black, glossy LCD, and white keys and mouse, don't match at all. And the speed bump is marginal, and I also was deeply disappointed about the shonky ATI GPU's.

Now I understand that the goal for the iMac is all-in-one. Less wires, more desktop space etc.. But this comprimises hardware, which is a shame for gamers like myself. But I realise iMac are home desktops that are used for Internet and Multimedia applications except intense 3D and games.

I currently have a Athlon64 +3700, X1900XT 512MB, 2GB RAM PC which I use for everything, especially gaming.

My wish would be a Mac Mini, with a good GPU like the Nvidia 8800 GTS, 7200rpm HDDs...and probably call it a Mac Major or a Mac Gamer..hence a concole looking Mac that plays Mac or Bootcamp XP/Vista Games....Thats my wish.

Write now I'm considering in getting a MacBook or a Mac Mini to do my Photoshop and Web Designs...though I don't know if it will hold. At the same time continue PC gaming and eventually an upgrade. But if I wait when new Mac Pro comes out the PC upgrade + Macbook/Mac Mini = Mac Pro :[

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Just to put things in perspective, my primary machines are a PowerMac G4 and a 15" PowerBook G4...and I know of plenty of imaging/graphic design pros who use similar hardware.

Some pros need the latest hardware but most don't, whereas the nature of the gaming industry requires that you upgrade more often than any other computer application. You don't need a Radeon HD 2900 XT to surf the web, use iLife, Photoshop, Office, Final Cut Pro etc. etc. But you will want one if you intend to play all the latest 3D games...

With that being said, I wish Apple would update their GPU offerings about twice as often as they do.

 

[Cosmo modo]

Good luck switching back to Windows.

If you need the bleeding edge in hardware land then a Mac is not what you want.
Mac users like their Macs for design, ease of use and OS X i guess.

I have to use Windows at work, i am so glad i don't have that mediocre software at home.

 

[Aranince]

Apple going public will be the demise of OSX. The reason why its so stable is because theres not a billion drivings crowding the system. The OS being made for specific hardware is what makes it so smooth and stable.

And uhh...Linux is an OS just like OSX and Windows. Do some research please. http://www.ubuntu.com