Reverse Switcher

[hcuar]

I'll add my 2 cents.

The iMac isn't intended to be a "high end machine". It's still a consumer machine. The price is inline with the current machines available at Best Buy (although I do think the FSB should have been upgraded to the Ghz FSB).

The Mac Pro should be the elite hardware user. Although the current offering in video cards is pathetic. Apple needs to release faster video cards when they come out, not months down the road.

So... I think based on what you want... you should be in the Mac Pro market. Atlhough i understand it doesn't have the specs or the price you want.

It'll be fine for the everyday user that plays a few games. Just don't expect to run Oblivion in windows with all the bells and whistles turned up.

Folks... there is a hole in the Apple product offering, but the case is... Apple doesn't care. They don't fill all the holes, it's not how the company works.

 

[flopticalcube]

No way Apple can use the 1066MHz FSB in the iMacs. That would require desktop parts along with desktop heat and larger fans. The iMacs video card is the fastest mobile GPU available (ties with the 8600M GT). The only way to get faster is to go full desktop and that's not the iMac.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

In a perfect world, my perfect Mac would resemble a upper-mid level gaming/prosumer PC: single high-end CPU, single high-end GPU, dual optical drives and space for a couple PCIe cards.

The closest thing to that in the real world is the Mac Pro - though it is a server/workstation rather than a consumer PC in the strictest sense of the word.

Realistically, Apple's best option to satisfy the calls for a "gaming" Mac is to make a cheaper Mac Pro with a (cheaper) off-the shelf motherboard and put the money saved on the motherboard into a high-end GPU.

Not that it will happen soon or at all.

 

[wakerider017]

In a perfect world, my perfect Mac would resemble a upper-mid level gaming/prosumer PC: single high-end CPU, single high-end GPU, dual optical drives and space for a couple PCIe cards.

The closest thing to that in the real world is the Mac Pro - though it is a server/workstation rather than a consumer PC in the strictest sense of the word.

Realistically, Apple's best option to satisfy the calls for a "gaming" Mac is to make a cheaper Mac Pro with a (cheaper) off-the shelf motherboard and put the money saved on the motherboard into a high-end GPU.

Not that it will happen soon or at all.

Yup, I want a fast computer but I have no need for dual XEONS and ECC fully buffered Mem...

 

[Hugh]

Yeah, I guess I am the total reversed on that one. I am always telling Windows to 'End Task' some program(s) I have.


Hugh

I don't know, I am very often having to use the force quit option.

Don't see why everyone says XP is so much more unstable... I never had any serious problems with it in the years I have used it. I would say it is equally as stable as OSX..

 

[Chilz0r]

I'll add my 2 cents.

The iMac isn't intended to be a "high end machine". It's still a consumer machine. The price is inline with the current machines available at Best Buy (although I do think the FSB should have been upgraded to the Ghz FSB).

The Mac Pro should be the elite hardware user. Although the current offering in video cards is pathetic. Apple needs to release faster video cards when they come out, not months down the road.

So... I think based on what you want... you should be in the Mac Pro market. Atlhough i understand it doesn't have the specs or the price you want.

It'll be fine for the everyday user that plays a few games. Just don't expect to run Oblivion in windows with all the bells and whistles turned up.

Folks... there is a hole in the Apple product offering, but the case is... Apple doesn't care. They don't fill all the holes, it's not how the company works.

Bullsh*t the iMac isn't meant to be high-end. With a $5000 AUD price tag, with maxed out specs you'd be expecting a bit more me thinks. That's like the price of a MacPro.

 

[WannaGoMac]

How's the reverse switch working for you?

 

[rainydays]

How's the reverse switch working for you?

He bought the new iMac

 

[WannaGoMac]

He bought the new iMac

He did? I didn't see that in the thread?
I think his first post was in response to the new iMac being crappy.

 

[rainydays]

He did? I didn't see that in the thread?
I think his first post was in response to the new iMac being crappy.

Yes, but then he realized that the GPU wasn't so bad after all, and that he got a free iPod, a free printer and a students discount so he just couldn't resist

 

[togermano]

After comming from a amd xp 2500 1.8ghz 512mb of ram, my imac duo 2.4ghz 2gb of ram is alot better!!!! But its a shame the video card can't be upgraded hopefully someone thinks of a hack for that

 

[danysl]

seriously, how much better GPUs does one need?

I game on my win xp laptop, a 1.4 Ghz centrino with an 64mb mobility radeon 9600.

I don´t play the lastest of games but when it was kinda new about 3 to 4 years ago and still now I have tons of fun gaming on my laptop, I don´t expect to always play at the highest settings (for me, it does not justify the investment needed).

What are the video cards on the Xbox, PS2, Xbox 360 and PS3.
Are they that superior?

I would not think a card with 256mb would completely suck, maybe people are rellying too much on benchmarks.ç

I will buy an imac and a mac mini come december and january. The previous imac model seems like a better deal to me right now, several hundred bucks less.

 

[WannaGoMac]

I game on my win xp laptop, a 1.4 Ghz centrino with an 64mb mobility radeon 9600.

I don´t play the lastest of games but when it was kinda new about 3 to 4 years ago and still now I have tons of fun gaming on my laptop, I don´t expect to always play at the highest settings (for me, it does not justify the investment needed).

What are the video cards on the Xbox, PS2, Xbox 360 and PS3.
Are they that superior?

Xbox360 PS3 Yes they are superior to your laptop.

Macs are fine if all you want to play are games about 2-3 years old.

 

[danysl]

Xbox360 PS3 Yes they are superior to your laptop.

Macs are fine if all you want to play are games about 2-3 years old.

I actually wanted to compare the iMac's video cards to the console's video cards.

 

[rainydays]

Macs are fine if all you want to play are games about 2-3 years old.

Or if you don't mind lowering the details and resolution a bit. Besides not all new games are that demanding, especially those games that has a broader market, because the developers know that everyone doesn't sit around with the latest and greatest GPU.

Also, there's new games coming that are using "older" engines. Like HL2 Ep 2, Team Fortress II and Portals. They will play just fine on the 24" iMac at native resolution.

 

[flopticalcube]

I game on my win xp laptop, a 1.4 Ghz centrino with an 64mb mobility radeon 9600.

I don´t play the lastest of games but when it was kinda new about 3 to 4 years ago and still now I have tons of fun gaming on my laptop, I don´t expect to always play at the highest settings (for me, it does not justify the investment needed).

What are the video cards on the Xbox, PS2, Xbox 360 and PS3.
Are they that superior?

I would not think a card with 256mb would completely suck, maybe people are rellying too much on benchmarks.ç

I will buy an imac and a mac mini come december and january. The previous imac model seems like a better deal to me right now, several hundred bucks less.

Consoles are running at lower resolutions for the most part.

 

[WannaGoMac]

Or if you don't mind lowering the details and resolution a bit. Besides not all new games are that demanding, especially those games that has a broader market, because the developers know that everyone doesn't sit around with the latest and greatest GPU.

Also, there's new games coming that are using "older" engines. Like HL2 Ep 2, Team Fortress II and Portals. They will play just fine on the 24" iMac at native resolution.

But I wouldn't expect to play Crysis at native resolution on any Mac

 

[rainydays]

But I wouldn't expect to play Crysis at native resolution on any Mac

So you can't play all the new games. There's plenty of them that plays just fine, and they don't have to be 2-3 years old.

Last time I checked, the gameplay is far more important than the graphics.

 

[flopticalcube]

So you can't play all the new games. There's plenty of them that plays just fine, and they don't have to be 2-3 years old.

Last time I checked, the gameplay is far more important than the graphics.

QFT. Unfortunatey, there are a few that will never be satisfied.

 

[WannaGoMac]

So you can't play all the new games. There's plenty of them that plays just fine, and they don't have to be 2-3 years old.

Last time I checked, the gameplay is far more important than the graphics.

Lol, read the 2nd part of my sig. You just provided a perfect example of the "beaten wife" LOL.

Anyway, I can't wait to buy my Mac Mini refurb once Leopard comes out. It will be a nice play computer for basic stuff...and the refurb price of $429 is about right.

Just wish Mac would make a Mac Pro jr or something, sans xeon procs, ECC memory etc.

 

[rainydays]

Lol, read the 2nd part of my sig. You just provided a perfect example of the "beaten wife" LOL.

Huh? No, I just don't have such a great need to play those games. It's not like I will be disappointed if I can't play a certain game on my computer, it's just a game after all.
I can take a look at it at one of my gamer buddies computers and say "oh, ah, that's impressive". But not being able to play them is not a big loss.
In fact, I mostly play 8-20 year old games anyway. But I like some of the newer ones once in a while.

Being able to do music and art on my computer is far more important to me. And that's something I enjoy doing a lot more on the iMac than on a Windows based gaming rig. And if I can play a game once in a while, sure. But it's not a big loss if I can't.

But if playing demanding games is what you spend most of your time in front of the computer doing then the iMac isn't a good choice.

However saying that you are limited to 2-3 years old games just isn't true. And it's not like older games is any less fun for that matter, especially when the games are old enough not to come anywhere close to being realistic

 

[GFLPraxis]

I was hoping that with the recent refresh in iMacs we might see some improvements, but when I saw the new specs I was pretty disappointed. Yup we still have the merom chips with the slow bus speed, yup we still have that slow notebook ddr2 memory, and wow now we have cheap ATI cards that cost about 60 bucks.

The crappy video cards in the new imacs is what pushed me over the edge. I mean honestly, Dell and HP are using better video cards in their budget computers!!!

Sure one can argue that Apple has to use these "not so hot" parts (no pun intended) so that the iMac does not overheat, due to it being so thing.

But heck, why do we need it that thin? It is not like I need it super light because I am going to be carrying it around. It is going to sit on my desk and look pretty...

I don't know about you, but I would rather have bigger dimensions and a better computer.


Sooo... For now I am going to use and old Dell in my house...

Going to wait until Q4 2007/ Q1 2008 for the new Intel Yorkfield quad chips (accompanied by DDR3 memory) and the new Nvidia Geforce 9 cards...

Just rough specs of what I am going to build:

Yorkfield CPU
Geforce 9 Video
4 GB's of DDR3 Mem
(2) 500GB HDD's in RAID0
Dell's 24" monitor
And we will have to wait and see on the other parts

I am going to be able to build this computer for as much if not less than what I paid for my iMac. Sure it may not look as "pretty", but i can't bet you it will run circles around the iMac.

I don't want to sound like a Mac hater, I am just very frustrated with the company right now.

Maybe one day Apple will go "public" with OS X. I guess I can dream...

Until then it looks like I am stuck with Vista.

I'd like to point out a few things.

The processors and RAM used in the iMac are not really much slower than the desktop versions; they're just pricier. Dell is NOT using better cards in their budget machines; Dell's budget machines have integrated cards. And the primary reason notebooks feel much slower is that they have slow hard drives (making loading times terrible); the iMac does not have that disadvantage.

So realistically the iMac will NOT feel much slower than a desktop. I think you are seriously looking too hard at the numbers; considering how much slower Vista runs than OS X and how much more RAM it consumes, you'd have to build a CONSIDERABLY faster machine to get the same feeling of speed, because OS X is so snappy.


I would consider the experience more important than the raw specs. Who cares if your computer is faster if it's running buggy, unintuitive software that you dislike?

But I live in photoshop and often use video editing apps...

Then dumping Final Cut is a baaaad move.

Plus, what's wrong with a few games on the side when all your work is done?

Nothing at all. I think people are way overblowing the GPU thing.

You know everyone can say that an apple computer is not "meant" for games... But hey, look at the half a dozen stories posted on MacRumors about big title games coming to Mac soon.

Do you think a 2600Pro is going to cut the mustard for the next version of Unreal? Or what about the poor guys with the 2400xt?

Actually, the 2600 Pro CAN play Unreal 2007. Actually should be able to do it at medium settings if you couple it with a Core 2 Duo and a good amount of RAM.

I think people are WAY too caught up with specifications; sure, you can't play Unreal Tournament 2007 at max settings. Who cares? If you can play it at medium settings at a good framerate, the game is no less enjoyable. I've never played games at max settings.

P.S. That is cool about the whole laptop HDD thing... I have really not worked with them much...

But that is all kind of irrelevant. My point was the thing is built like a laptop, and the fact that it uses a 3.5" HDD does not really make a big difference.

Not true at all! The HDD is the biggest difference. A Merom is hardly slower than a Conroe, it just costs a lot more. Same with the RAM. However, laptops feel slower because the HDD is slower. It takes a lot longer to save and load data, games take longer to load, video editing takes forever to import and export, etc, etc.

High-end laptop hardware with a desktop hard drive should feel very snappy, actually.

 

[wakerider017]

Yes, but then he realized that the GPU wasn't so bad after all, and that he got a free iPod, a free printer and a students discount so he just couldn't resist

Lol exactly...

Too good of a deal to leave on the table.

 

[synth3tik]

Well I hope the OP enjoys his PC life and I hope they have fun trying to get Vista to work.

 

[Adokimus]

Folks... there is a hole in the Apple product offering, but the case is... Apple doesn't care. They don't fill all the holes, it's not how the company works.

...too bad Apple's not your mom.