RIM: Restructuring, possible sell-off

[KnightWRX]

They were told it was too late to jump into the Console market, that it was in Japans hands. (Playstation and Nintendo).

Doesn't mean the person telling it was sane or close to the truth though. Japan basically wrested the industry from the US companies dominating it at the time. It's a fast moving, young industry, anything can happen, could happen and will happen. Anyone using words like "impossible" in the context is quite ignorant I'm sorry to say.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

"A few weeks ago, Canadian Federal Finance Minister, Jim Flaherty, said his government wouldn't try to keep RIM from being acquired by a company based in another country."
.

I read that. Just because that is what they say does not change the fact that they would get involved if it is a company from other certain other countries.

Also what the government says and does are often times two different things. The things I have been reading is multiple governments would be getting involved and try to block it if the company buying up rim is not from a Western country.

 

[sysiphus]

It is a shame to see RIM go down like this. I doubt they'll totally disappear any time soon, but they clearly can't afford to maintain the status quo, either.
The enterprise market will let them hang on by their fingernails for a while yet, but their high-end consumer market is pretty much gone.

Honestly, I really want them to succeed--not only because competition is healthy, but because I *like* hardware-based keyboards. I refuse to buy any of their current phones, since BB7 is clearly on its last legs...but I'd like to see them pull a rabbit out of their hat with BBX.

My contract renewal date with the Death Star is in November--I'll be away at school then, but over the Christmas break, I'll be in the market for a new phone. Round about then, I imagine there will be first-gen BBX and WP8 devices, along with the standard turnover of iOS/Android phones. I love my Samsung Focus (WP7.5), and would happily use my contract upgrade on another WP device--while it's true that the software ecosystem is a bit small, my primary "apps" on a smartphone haven't really changed in the ~6 years I've owned a smartphone...internet, email/messaging, and camera. Everybody's pulled that one off well by now, so the rest is pretty much a non-starter for me.

That being said, I'll happily consider everything on the market by then--I'm pretty much brand-agnostic*. I'm pretty much RIM's best-case "new" customer. I'd love for them to win me over, but I wouldn't bet big bucks on it. A Verizon exec was recently quoted as saying VZW would like to see Windows Phone provide a viable 3rd ecosystem for consumers, along with iPhones and Android devices. The silence regarding RIM is deafening (and sent the RIM fans over at Crackberry crazy)...when one of the top-tier US carriers is implying that RIM is no longer a priority, that the yet-to-be-well-established Windows Phone (which has gotten terrible Verizon support) is of greater import...well, you know there's trouble.

*I've owned and enjoyed phones representing pretty much every major software platform in the past few years, from Symbian (both UIQ and S60) to BB6 to iOS (1.0-3.x, 4.x), Android (1.5-2.2). I buy what looks good at the time, and try not to get tied into an ecosystem...

 

[Dr McKay]

Just the non-performing dead-weight. The ones holding back the rest of the industry.

How exactly are they holding back the industry? If they were truly dead-weight the industry would simply move on without them.

Are Apple and other Phone Companies holding back revolutionary ideas because they want to let RIM have a chance? No.

 

[boss.king]

How exactly are they holding back the industry? If they were truly dead-weight the industry would simply move on without them.

Are Apple and other Phone Companies holding back revolutionary ideas because they want to let RIM have a chance? No.

It's just LTDs usual nonsensical rambling. It's best not to encourage him.

 

[0dev]

It is a shame to see RIM go down like this. I doubt they'll totally disappear any time soon, but they clearly can't afford to maintain the status quo, either.
The enterprise market will let them hang on by their fingernails for a while yet, but their high-end consumer market is pretty much gone.

Honestly, I really want them to succeed--not only because competition is healthy, but because I *like* hardware-based keyboards. I refuse to buy any of their current phones, since BB7 is clearly on its last legs...but I'd like to see them pull a rabbit out of their hat with BBX.

My contract renewal date with the Death Star is in November--I'll be away at school then, but over the Christmas break, I'll be in the market for a new phone. Round about then, I imagine there will be first-gen BBX and WP8 devices, along with the standard turnover of iOS/Android phones. I love my Samsung Focus (WP7.5), and would happily use my contract upgrade on another WP device--while it's true that the software ecosystem is a bit small, my primary "apps" on a smartphone haven't really changed in the ~6 years I've owned a smartphone...internet, email/messaging, and camera. Everybody's pulled that one off well by now, so the rest is pretty much a non-starter for me.

That being said, I'll happily consider everything on the market by then--I'm pretty much brand-agnostic*. I'm pretty much RIM's best-case "new" customer. I'd love for them to win me over, but I wouldn't bet big bucks on it. A Verizon exec was recently quoted as saying VZW would like to see Windows Phone provide a viable 3rd ecosystem for consumers, along with iPhones and Android devices. The silence regarding RIM is deafening (and sent the RIM fans over at Crackberry crazy)...when one of the top-tier US carriers is implying that RIM is no longer a priority, that the yet-to-be-well-established Windows Phone (which has gotten terrible Verizon support) is of greater import...well, you know there's trouble.

*I've owned and enjoyed phones representing pretty much every major software platform in the past few years, from Symbian (both UIQ and S60) to BB6 to iOS (1.0-3.x, 4.x), Android (1.5-2.2). I buy what looks good at the time, and try not to get tied into an ecosystem...

That's one of the most sensible posts I've read on this forum on the topic of RIM. Good to see something that isn't basically "RIM IS OLD AND CRAP LOL EVERYONE GET IPHONES THEY IS BETTAR!"

I certainly agree that being brand agnostic is a smart thing to do. I'm always trying different smartphones and just recently got a Bold 9780 to replace my 9700 (I'd get a 9900 but I lack the funds). BBs are quite good phones and, like you, I'm excited for BBX.

 

[smoledman]

It's just LTDs usual nonsensical rambling. It's best not to encourage him.

Agreed. I don't understand why some people actively hate on a failing company. I mean RIM is probably on their way down, but the need to join in the kicking...

 

[smithrh]

Agreed. I don't understand why some people actively hate on a failing company. I mean RIM is probably on their way down, but the need to join in the kicking...

Well, not that I'm defending this in any way, but there were quite a few people put off by some of the comments made by RIM senior management folks along the way.

Or have people already forgotten the "Amateur hour is over" comments?

 

[smoledman]

Well, not that I'm defending this in any way, but there were quite a few people put off by some of the comments made by RIM senior management folks along the way.

Or have people already forgotten the "Amateur hour is over" comments?

Honestly I don't follow RIM that closely so I don't know about that. Also the average consumer wouldn't know either. The reason RIM is dying is because of how strong iOS/Android ecosystems are, not because RIM made some big mistake. Innovation happens and if you can't adjust early enough you get left behind.

 

[*LTD*]

Honestly I don't follow RIM that closely so I don't know about that. Also the average consumer wouldn't know either. The reason RIM is dying is because of how strong iOS/Android ecosystems are, not because RIM made some big mistake. Innovation happens and if you can't adjust early enough you get left behind.

Of course they made "some big mistake."

It's called "doing nothing." Their answers to iOS and Android were . . . more of the same crap. When it was obvious to everyone, even the most slack-jawed yokel, that something was terribly wrong, RIM did . . . nothing. Much to the astonishment of industry observers and consumers. All of their answers to iOS/Android were so inexplicably weak that it almost seems as if Ballsilie and Laziridis did all this deliberately. No one could be this stupid. But of course, they can. And most of this inexplicable (and obvious) corporate stupidity arises from delusion. They simply did not want to believe that the Blackberry platform had to evolve and re-create and that businesses and consumers alike wold leave. And leave in droves. In this market, if you fail to evolve your business, you'll fail.

Just as an aside, guess who has the art of evolution and re-creation down to a science? Apple. They're all about pushing forward and constantly redefining and reshaping markets. That's their mantra. the old "skating to where the puck will be" aphorism is as true of Apple today as it ever was of anyone in the history of this industry.

The kicker in RIM's situation, however, is that they had every opportunity, from June 2007 to the present, to raise their game to a new level of competitiveness. That never happened. And all we heard were the delusionally arrogant comments from the co-CEOs that everything is perfectly fine and that the iPhone is a big joke. When everyone and their dog knew that nothing at all was fine with their situation and that the joke was on them.

The writing was on the wall for RIM years ago. They saw it, too. All they did was sit around. And you expect people to feel sorry for those fools? LMAO not a chance, pal.

 

[maflynn]

not because RIM made some big mistake. Innovation happens and if you can't adjust early enough you get left behind.

You can make the argument that RIM's lack of innovation while being a market leader was a big mistake. They had the enterprise market, and consumers were using their phones but they sat on the same tired old design on the phone and failed to really innovate the OS. Heck their web browser has been all but useless until recently.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Honestly I don't follow RIM that closely so I don't know about that. Also the average consumer wouldn't know either. The reason RIM is dying is because of how strong iOS/Android ecosystems are, not because RIM made some big mistake. Innovation happens and if you can't adjust early enough you get left behind.

Whenever you have a company that was a market leader 6-7 years ago and is now barely hanging in there, they screwed up. Ironically RIM had an ecosystem that could've competed with iOS/Android - they had a successful vertical integration, owned the enterprise market and their consumer market had that BBM addiction going. But everything from that one disgruntled employee to that 3 day BB server outage to their CEO's stepping down has hinted the company is now a mess.

RIM is probably going out like Palm. Some other company will probably end up acquiring RIM for QNX just like HP bought Palm to get WebOS. Sad thing is a little over half a decade ago, the smartphones to get were Blackberry's and Treo's.

 

[0dev]

RIM is probably going out like Palm. Some other company will probably end up acquiring RIM for QNX just like HP bought Palm to get WebOS. Sad thing is a little over half a decade ago, the smartphones to get were Blackberry's and Treo's.

If this happens it'll be very sad. Palm's WebOS is actually fantastic. I inherited a Pre recently and I hacked WebOS 2.1.0 onto it, and I think it's a great piece of kit. The device looks very nice (though the build quality isn't exactly 100%, I grant you) and the OS is brilliantly intuitive, much better than my Android-powered HTC.

It really is sad to see WebOS relegated to wireless printers, and it would be a big shame to see RIM go a similar route

 

[smoledman]

Of course they made "some big mistake."

It's called "doing nothing." Their answers to iOS and Android were . . . more of the same crap. When it was obvious to everyone, even the most slack-jawed yokel, that something was terribly wrong, RIM did . . . nothing. Much to the astonishment of industry observers and consumers. All of their answers to iOS/Android were so inexplicably weak that it almost seems as if Ballsilie and Laziridis did all this deliberately. No one could be this stupid. But of course, they can. And most of this inexplicable (and obvious) corporate stupidity arises from delusion. They simply did not want to believe that the Blackberry platform had to evolve and re-create and that businesses and consumers alike wold leave. And leave in droves. In this market, if you fail to evolve your business, you'll fail.

Just as an aside, guess who has the art of evolution and re-creation down to a science? Apple. They're all about pushing forward and constantly redefining and reshaping markets. That's their mantra. the old "skating to where the puck will be" aphorism is as true of Apple today as it ever was of anyone in the history of this industry.

The kicker in RIM's situation, however, is that they had every opportunity, from June 2007 to the present, to raise their game to a new level of competitiveness. That never happened. And all we heard were the delusionally arrogant comments from the co-CEOs that everything is perfectly fine and that the iPhone is a big joke. When everyone and their dog knew that nothing at all was fine with their situation and that the joke was on them.

The writing was on the wall for RIM years ago. They saw it, too. All they did was sit around. And you expect people to feel sorry for those fools? LMAO not a chance, pal.

I'm shocked you suddenly think Android as something relevant because you keep typing iOS/Android as though they were some 2-headed beast.

 

[*LTD*]

I'm shocked you suddenly think Android as something relevant because you keep typing iOS/Android as though they were some 2-headed beast.

They're obviously relevant as the entity that commands the "other end" of the market, and they're certainly relevant where discussion of RIM is concerned.

Android, fragmented mess that it is, still represents the current mobile standard which RIM didn't bother with. Android and top Android OEMs make RIM's entire lineup look positively ancient. Hell, even WP7 makes RIM's offerings look weirdly outmoded.

 

[smithrh]

Honestly I don't follow RIM that closely so I don't know about that.

It was fairly hard to miss, really.

Also the average consumer wouldn't know either.

Not sure why you stuck that in there, the comment was in regards to why people here might be enjoying some RIM Schadenfreude...

The reason RIM is dying is because of how strong iOS/Android ecosystems are, not because RIM made some big mistake. Innovation happens and if you can't adjust early enough you get left behind.

Uhhh... no. RIM made a lot of really bad mistakes, as others have noted here - mainly inaction while others kept moving.

The fact that they were noisy about things when it was obvious that they were failing is probably why many people are reacting this way. People tend to remember empty boasts made inappropriately.

 

[entatlrg]

I dread the idea that the only vendor for all my computing needs will be Apple. I believe the future of freedom in computing is riding on the success of Windows 8. This is about a blow against mono-tech. Essentially the "big brother" figure in the Apple Macintosh ad from 1984 is now Apple themselves. It's chilling to even think about the irony of that.

Paranoid much?

This really has become the anti-apple forum!

 

[thewitt]

R.i.p. R.i.m.

 

[Liquorpuki]

If this happens it'll be very sad. Palm's WebOS is actually fantastic. I inherited a Pre recently and I hacked WebOS 2.1.0 onto it, and I think it's a great piece of kit. The device looks very nice (though the build quality isn't exactly 100%, I grant you) and the OS is brilliantly intuitive, much better than my Android-powered HTC.

It really is sad to see WebOS relegated to wireless printers, and it would be a big shame to see RIM go a similar route

Yeah I played around with a Pre awhile back. It's a good phone. I have no clue what Palm's marketing department was thinking though, calling their flagship phones Pre's and Pixi's and expecting people to buy them.

I'm hoping HP restructures their mobile line around WebOS and does something innovative with it. Credit to Meg Whitman for not killing it off.

 

[smoledman]

Paranoid much?

This really has become the anti-apple forum!

Really? When Steve Jobs' dying wish is to destroy Android for the "principle" of it?

 

[roadbloc]

It's a fast moving, young industry, anything can happen, could happen and will happen.

Just like the Smartphone industry then?

 

[*LTD*]

Just like the Smartphone industry then?

Except Apple's in it. Changes the dynamics of "anything can happen" completely.

 

[KnightWRX]

Just like the Smartphone industry then?

Just like the smartphone industry. Or the personal computer industry, or the home theater industry.

 

[smithrh]

RIM: Circling the drain...

Yet another restructuring.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/rim-prepares-for-radical-measures-with-global-restructuring/article2444117/?utm_medium=Feeds%3A%20RSS%2FAtom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2444117

Timing is interesting, early Saturday morning on a 3-day holiday weekend (at least in the states).

 

[Ariii]

I have a Cricket phone that is a ripoff of the Blackberry, and have used a BlackBerry for two months. And well, I don't like it. I think the bad thing about BlackBerries is web browsing, and that's already bad with the screen size. I think if they included a trackball, or that cool little red thing they have on a lot of laptop keyboards instead of the very, very tiny touchpad. I like phone OS's that have a minimalistic start screen that leave a lot of free space on the screen. I remember there was this smartphone called the Alias or something, it sounded like a concept I'd like to see in smartphones.