Rip Those Macs Open

Ppq · Feb 12, 2013

happyhacking said:
From specs there isnt doubt that thunderbolt is faster, but its a recent technology, so its very possible that right now the available thunderbolt components/controllers dont reach the full capabilities from this technology, but its the way to go for the great features on connecting multiple devices.

Remember from your own benchmarks the following line:

Here is a good article concluding that thunderbolt is faster, even at tomshardware they reached about ~925 MB/s

Image

do you also know that the main thing regarding ssd/hdd is not the sequential read/write speed, but IOPS ?

Thunderbolt IS SLOWER than SATA. Happyhacking claims it's MUCH FASTER, i'd just like to see.

from current benchmarks, sequential reads are about 510MB/s using direct SATA,
and 465MB/s using thunderbolt cradle. (quoted from web in my previous post)

so the same ssd connected via thunderbolt is slower than internal sata in sequential,
and now, imagine the true test with e.g. random 4k reads/writes...

happyhacking · Feb 12, 2013

cmjars said:
HappyHacking can you post some pictures of your teardown and some insight on how to go about replacing the Apple ssd and the Hard drive?

Thank you.

I will try to made a picture with some details about removing the motherboard

happyhacking · Feb 12, 2013

epine said:
Are you suggesting that I remove the 128 SSD and turn that into an external drive? Would that require me taking out the logic board to remove the said drive? My original thought was to replace the HDD with the samsung 840 pro and leave the 128 SSD and have two SSD's running in the imac. What do you suggest?

I believed you want to replace the blade ssd too, thats why i recommended you the external enclosure for the 128GB blade.

For removing the HDD you just had to move the speaker gently, instead to replace blade ssd you should remove the power source and motherboard.

You can keep the 128GB ssd and do the same RAID i did or replace it for the 256GB blade which could be better since the 256GB blade ssd its a little faster aafaik, anyway your raid array will be limited to the double of your smallest drive.

If you can afford the extra 256GB oem rmbp ssd, and you can find it at a good price get it !! You will not open your iMac again (At least i wont do it) so put the better components you can r8 now, but if you want to keep the 128GB, it will be a lot easier to do, and the performance improvement will be very good too, so its up to you. XD

Calipad · Feb 12, 2013

happyhacking said:
I will try to made a picture with some details about removing the motherboard

Thank you. I bought a 256 Apple blade, have the Apple Spec Relacement Tape kit and just hoping you can help with removal of the motherboard.

Thank you again!

jmpage2 · Feb 12, 2013

For anyone who wants to make a career out of disassembling late 2012 iMacs, I've updated my post in the marketplace forum, I'm ebaying what's left of the Apple screen repair kit that includes all of the necessary bits and pieces. Please see that post in marketplace for details.

Zandros · Feb 12, 2013

Ppq said:
Thunderbolt IS SLOWER than SATA. Happyhacking claims it's MUCH FASTER, i'd just like to see.

from current benchmarks, sequential reads are about 510MB/s using direct SATA,
and 465MB/s using thunderbolt cradle. (quoted from web in my previous post)

How did you exclude the SATA controller in the Thunderbolt device as the culprit?

epine · Feb 12, 2013

happyhacking said:
I believed you want to replace the blade ssd too, thats why i recommended you the external enclosure for the 128GB blade.

For removing the HDD you just had to move the speaker gently, instead to replace blade ssd you should remove the power source and motherboard.

You can keep the 128GB ssd and do the same RAID i did or replace it for the 256GB blade which could be better since the 256GB blade ssd its a little faster aafaik, anyway your raid array will be limited to the double of your smallest drive.

If you can afford the extra 256GB oem rmbp ssd, and you can find it at a good price get it !! You will not open your iMac again (At least i wont do it) so put the better components you can r8 now, but if you want to keep the 128GB, it will be a lot easier to do, and the performance improvement will be very good too, so its up to you. XD

I intend to keep the 128 blade and install the 512 blade along with it. do you advise I use the 512 for OSX or the 128? thanks for your help!

Qnsboy · Feb 12, 2013

Would the OWC Aura Pro SSD for the MacBook Pro 2012 work in the Late 2012 iMac?

Great info happyhacking. I've spent days searching google for info on a RAID setup for this machine. Apparantly there are only a handful of us that are into this.

Quick question. Would this SSD work for a similar configuration as your's:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012

Thanks in advance.

MasterLibrarian · Feb 13, 2013

Just a question for all you experts out there...

Is there any way to keep the internal 1TB HDD and also add a Samsung 840 Pro SSD internally?

This would be the ideal as far I can imagine. Having both the 1TB space and the extreme performance of the samsung SSD. The blade SSDS are a bit more tough to find and don't have the same price/performance as a standard SSD drive...

So ... is there a way to do it?

Geux · Feb 13, 2013

zonesey said:
Do you mean that you put a Samsung 840 Pro into a LaCie Rugged Thunderbolt enclosure?

Yep. It's very easy to do. Case isn't hard to open.

And it was a lot quicker then the Crucial that's in there normally.

Ppq · Feb 13, 2013

Zandros said:
How did you exclude the SATA controller in the Thunderbolt device as the culprit?

we are talking about internal SATA vs thunderbolt case.

of course external thunderbolt case communicates with the drive via SATA, how it could be different?

Zandros · Feb 13, 2013

Ppq said:
we are talking about internal SATA vs thunderbolt case.

of course external thunderbolt case communicates with the drive via SATA, how it could be different?

The point is that not all SATA controllers are created equal. It is likely that the internal drives are using the Intel controller on the PCH, and Intel usually makes pretty good stuff.

On the other hand, it is not uncommon that manufacturers of peripherals go for a cheaper controller that may perform worse.

See, for example, http://www.anandtech.com/show/2973/6gbps-sata-performance-amd-890gx-vs-intel-x58-p55. Not as a demonstration that Intel is better, mind, as the test is pretty old, but as a proof that there may be rather large performance differences between SATA controllers.

That is, I think it's unreasonable to claim that Thunderbolt is slower than SATA, without testing a Thunderbolt device that ideally has the same SATA controller as the internal drive.

happyhacking · Feb 13, 2013

epine said:
I intend to keep the 128 blade and install the 512 blade along with it. do you advise I use the 512 for OSX or the 128? thanks for your help!

If possible do a RAID 0 for OSX, if dont want this setup use the 512GB for OSX, remmeber that the 840 pro is faster than blade installed

zonesey · Feb 13, 2013

happyhacking said:
Hi, guys, finally i completed my configuration for my

Apple iMac 27" Late 2012, 3.4 GHz Intel Core i7, 32 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 CL9 LowVoltage, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680MX 2048 MB, Apple SoftRAID 0 (Samsung SSD 840 PRO + APPLE SSD SM256E), Dual Boot (Windows 7)

And imo benchmarks are damn great with this config, its perhaps the fastest iMac you can build by today.

----------------------------------
More pics comming...

That read speed of 840 MB/s is just sick...

Personally, I'm (wishfully) waiting on a 1000 MB/s external PCIe Thunderbolt SSD to hit the shelves...

----------

Geux said:
Yep. It's very easy to do. Case isn't hard to open.

And it was a lot quicker then the Crucial that's in there normally.

Nice

I might as well do this (once I get the money to do it).

Ppq · Feb 14, 2013

Zandros said:
The point is that not all SATA controllers are created equal. It is likely that the internal drives are using the Intel controller on the PCH, and Intel usually makes pretty good stuff.

On the other hand, it is not uncommon that manufacturers of peripherals go for a cheaper controller that may perform worse.

See, for example, http://www.anandtech.com/show/2973/6gbps-sata-performance-amd-890gx-vs-intel-x58-p55. Not as a demonstration that Intel is better, mind, as the test is pretty old, but as a proof that there may be rather large performance differences between SATA controllers.

That is, I think it's unreasonable to claim that Thunderbolt is slower than SATA, without testing a Thunderbolt device that ideally has the same SATA controller as the internal drive.

fair enough, but you also can't expect that PC->thunderbolt->external thunderbolt case SATA->SSD will have the same speed and IOPS as PC->internal SATA->SSD even with the same e.g. Intel SATA controller.

happyhacking · Feb 14, 2013

epine said:
I intend to keep the 128 blade and install the 512 blade along with it. do you advise I use the 512 for OSX or the 128? thanks for your help!

If you dont mind to have just 256 GB for OSX then:

OSX booth drives (2 x 128GB RAID0 = 256 GB)
Windows on the remaining 384 GB

If you dont like RAID, then:

OSX on 512GB samsung 840 pro
Windows on 128 GB blade ssd

----------

Qnsboy said:
Great info happyhacking. I've spent days searching google for info on a RAID setup for this machine. Apparantly there are only a handful of us that are into this.

Quick question. Would this SSD work for a similar configuration as your's:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/SSD/OWC/Aura_Pro_Retina_2012

Thanks in advance.

No ! This will NOT work on this iMac, i already purchased the 480GB version and my iMac doesnt even powered on, so stay away from it !

----------

MasterLibrarian said:
Just a question for all you experts out there...

Is there any way to keep the internal 1TB HDD and also add a Samsung 840 Pro SSD internally?

This would be the ideal as far I can imagine. Having both the 1TB space and the extreme performance of the samsung SSD. The blade SSDS are a bit more tough to find and don't have the same price/performance as a standard SSD drive...

So ... is there a way to do it?

No ! Its not possible since iMac has only 1 standard sata port, and there is no place to put both drives, the single internal only config possible is 1 blade ssd and 1 standard sata drive

Qnsboy · Feb 14, 2013

Thanks for the heads up happyhacking.
If there were only a single drive thunderbolt solution that reached the full speed of an internal sata port! I bought a buffalo Ministation thunderbolt installed a Samsung 840 pro and all maxed out at about 400/350 read/write.

epine · Feb 16, 2013

happyhacking said:
If you dont mind to have just 256 GB for OSX then:

OSX booth drives (2 x 128GB RAID0 = 256 GB)
Windows on the remaining 384 GB

If you dont like RAID, then:

OSX on 512GB samsung 840 pro
Windows on 128 GB blade ssd

Awesome, will do.

Alekto · Feb 16, 2013

I'm planning to buy the 27 inch and put in my own SSD, since I'm not keen on paying for the 768GB option and I'd like to choose my own.
I only want a pure SSD and I'm not interested in the Fusion Drive etc. A friend of mine informs me it's easier to access the HDD bay on the 27 inch than the 21 inch. Is that so? What kind of tools do I need? I already have a torx screwdriver set that I used to rip open the previous iMac. Any help would be appreciated.

CJM · Feb 17, 2013

Alekto said:
I'm planning to buy the 27 inch and put in my own SSD, since I'm not keen on paying for the 768GB option and I'd like to choose my own.
I only want a pure SSD and I'm not interested in the Fusion Drive etc. A friend of mine informs me it's easier to access the HDD bay on the 27 inch than the 21 inch. Is that so? What kind of tools do I need? I already have a torx screwdriver set that I used to rip open the previous iMac. Any help would be appreciated.

I too am interested in doing the same upgrade. Do you think someone could create a separate (sticky?) thread for iMac upgrade guides? Kinda sucks there's no ifixit guide for the iMac 27"

Quad5Ny · Feb 17, 2013

Alekto said:
I'm planning to buy the 27 inch and put in my own SSD, since I'm not keen on paying for the 768GB option and I'd like to choose my own.
I only want a pure SSD and I'm not interested in the Fusion Drive etc. A friend of mine informs me it's easier to access the HDD bay on the 27 inch than the 21 inch. Is that so? What kind of tools do I need? I already have a torx screwdriver set that I used to rip open the previous iMac. Any help would be appreciated.

I wouldn't exactly call getting to the 27" HD bay easier.

Make sure you buy new adhesive for the screen before starting your project because when you open it, your going to destroy the original adhesive.

Alekto · Feb 17, 2013

CJM said:
I too am interested in doing the same upgrade. Do you think someone could create a separate (sticky?) thread for iMac upgrade guides? Kinda sucks there's no ifixit guide for the iMac 27"

Great idea!!!

bkonings · Feb 17, 2013

Some apple documents about opening the iMac late 2012 can be found here:

http://sonnydickson.com/applecare-service-training-docs

Blu3Blood · Feb 17, 2013

I cannot access marketplace forum. I am interested in getting a screen repair kit. Is it possible to PM me?
I am new to this forum, I hope I won't be banned for this request

Thanks

jmpage2 said:
For anyone who wants to make a career out of disassembling late 2012 iMacs, I've updated my post in the marketplace forum, I'm ebaying what's left of the Apple screen repair kit that includes all of the necessary bits and pieces. Please see that post in marketplace for details.

Tri-stan · Feb 17, 2013

Blu3Blood said:
I cannot access marketplace forum. I am interested in getting a screen repair kit. Is it possible to PM me?
I am new to this forum, I hope I won't be banned for this request

Thanks

Genuine Apple screen tape kits are now available for the 27 inch here on eBay

It is an easy process to do I recommend it if you want to save some money on Apple upgrade prices.

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