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Samsung 840 Pro - Trim
- Thread starter Ethosik
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Is this thread relevant DIY fusion w/samsung 840
?how can I benchmark the SSD of my fusion setup?
Also, I can't recall why I switched from Groths to chameleon within the last year? Could someone help trigger my memory.
?how can I benchmark the SSD of my fusion setup?
Also, I can't recall why I switched from Groths to chameleon within the last year? Could someone help trigger my memory.
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You can't. The system and any benchmark utility sees the SSD/HDD as one large Fusion drive.
BMagic and trim enabler benchmark useless on fusion?
So, I hope you are telling me black magic and trim enabler benchmark are useless on a fusion drive and I can quit fretting over my really really really low black magic speed results?
So, I hope you are telling me black magic and trim enabler benchmark are useless on a fusion drive and I can quit fretting over my really really really low black magic speed results?
That is exactly what I telling you.
Thanks made my week, been on my mind for 10 months.
Dumb Trim question of the day...
From the wiki article linked to on the bottom of the previous page...
"TRIM is a SATA command that enables the operating system to tell an SSD what blocks of previously saved data are no longer needed as a result of file deletions or using the format command."
The question is a portable SSD drive that operates for 30 days connected to a MP with trim enabled and then goes portable connected to a MBP for 10 days with trim enabled while you travel on business. If you delete or add new files during the 10 days traveling, after you return and plug the portable drive back into the MP, then what?
Since trim is OS based and not drive based the Trim info on the MP is 10 days stale. Then 30 days later when you go on another business trip the trim data on the MBP is now 30 days stale. Is there any data risk running trim from two different computers to the same SSD drive like the example above?
Keep in mind I am a SSD newbee so my first go around with SSD and Trim starts when my February delivery arrives sometime in March I leave on a 14 day trip Feb 28th, and will continue to use my 2 portable spinners in the meantime.
From the wiki article linked to on the bottom of the previous page...
"TRIM is a SATA command that enables the operating system to tell an SSD what blocks of previously saved data are no longer needed as a result of file deletions or using the format command."
The question is a portable SSD drive that operates for 30 days connected to a MP with trim enabled and then goes portable connected to a MBP for 10 days with trim enabled while you travel on business. If you delete or add new files during the 10 days traveling, after you return and plug the portable drive back into the MP, then what?
Since trim is OS based and not drive based the Trim info on the MP is 10 days stale. Then 30 days later when you go on another business trip the trim data on the MBP is now 30 days stale. Is there any data risk running trim from two different computers to the same SSD drive like the example above?
Keep in mind I am a SSD newbee so my first go around with SSD and Trim starts when my February delivery arrives sometime in March
I leave on a 14 day trip Feb 28th, and will continue to use my 2 portable spinners in the meantime.
No, not at all. The drive would have the TRIM function run at the time files are moved or deleted, so what happens when it is moved to another system will be unrelated to what happened on the previous system. There is no OS database or anything where a log is kept or anything... it is a hardware command given by the OS.
Just curious though. This is an external SSD that you will be moving back and forth between the two machines? How are you attaching the drive enclosure? I ask because TRIM is not supported over USB. It will work with an external Thunderbolt enclosure though.
Thanks for the quick reply. To the MP will be TB.
My MBP is Mid 2012 so it has USB3.0 and TB1.0. Was planing on using USB3.0 via powered hub. My 840's none pro's (1TB) are darn close speed wise with USB3.0 compared to TB1.0 using speed tools quick bench.
I have an EVO 750gb to go in a mac pro 5,1.
Using a Highpoint 642L card possibly not able to use trim !!
Is this a really bad idea for a system drive ?
What are my options to keep this SSD healthy ??
Should I abandon and go for Apricorn V2 card ? .. trim OK on that ?
Many thanks,
Martin.
Using a Highpoint 642L card possibly not able to use trim !!
Is this a really bad idea for a system drive ?
What are my options to keep this SSD healthy ??
Should I abandon and go for Apricorn V2 card ? .. trim OK on that ?
Many thanks,
Martin.
MacNN and Electronista say that it supports TRIM.
http://www.macnn.com/reviews/highpoint-rocketraid-642l-sataoresata-card.html
http://www.electronista.com/reviews/highpoint-rocketraid-642l-sata/esata-card.html
http://www.electronista.com/reviews/highpoint-rocketraid-642l-sata/esata-card.html
But if that's wrong, scroll up about 10 posts and read what I wrote about over-provisioning. If you make sure that the drive is TRIM'd or secure erased, then only create about 650 GB total for all partitions, you'll be OK.
Portable is immaterial. All TRIM does is synchronize the metadata the OS file system keeps about free/used blocks to the SSD drive's firmware which is doing much of the same task for largely different motivations. That's it. Where does the OS file system keep this metadata? As data on the drive itself. When you move your portable drive the same files and folders appear when you go from machine to machine. The data about those files is called metadata but it also simply just data which is stored on the drive along with the contents of your files. [ it is "meta" in that users don't interact or see it. That doesn't mean it is not sitting right there on the drive. ]
Nothing is "lost". The both the OS File System and the drive's Flash Controller are keeping track of the "free" blocks. They are two different lists but they are both stored on the SSD drive. If unplug the drive from one computer and plug into another computer both free lists move over.
Not even true. The TRIM command may be issued by the OS but if the drive doesn't do anything with that info there is nothing being "done". All modern, decent SSD implement it by it is being done on the drive. Merging the metadata info from the file system with the metadata info on the SSD has to be done by the drive. That's the whole reason why issuing a TRIM command to send the info. The point is to send info to the OTHER system tracking free blocks.
If the OS File System doesn't issue TRIM the drive can STILL track free blocks. The other factor of TRIM is to send the information sooner rather than later. It isn't 100% necessary for the drive to track free blocks. Eventually the communication will happen. There are advantages to it happening sooner rather than later.
TRIM is oversold by some as some panacea that solves everything including world hunger. It doesn't.
There is no requirement that TRIM commands run 100% in transaction with the file system updates. ( e.g., the file system can build a list and issue those after it is finished its own updates. ) As long as the info is sent early and periodically enough for the drive to make use of it during "down time" when it has little else to do that is all that is required for the benefit.
Errr. no. That is one of the major purpose of the file system to keep a database of what is free and not free. HFS+ keeps a transaction log of updates to metadata.
TRIM's marginal benefits don't justify doing a deep "resync" (with possibly rendundant TRIM commands over blocks the drive already knows are free).
It would work over an eSATA connection also. It is a SATA command so all that is required is that the SATA command transparently go from system to drive. Thunderbolt works transparently to most normal system commands and instructions ( it will appear as a PCIe switch to the drive's controller even though it does something slightly different. )
I did not say there was. What I am saying is if the drive is run on a system with no TRIM, then moved to another system with TRIM, there is no method for the OS to now say "Hey look we have TRIM now... let's TRIM that space that was erased on the non-TRIM system". This was the OPs concern and the context of my answer. To now "catch up" with TRIM on the drive one would need to TRIM unused space by a single user mode boot then run "fsck -fy" to TRIM unused blocks. Although I did see a forum post from a Mavericks user reporting a normal Disk Util run showed unused blocks getting TRIM'd.
There is really no need for the condescension.
Reread what I said in the context of the OP's question. There is no stored database of TRIM commands that is saved up and executed when the drive is again used on a system with TRIM activated.
Aiden, do you mean that with a brand new 750gb EVO I should create one
partition of say 650gb or so AND one of 100gb and don't ever use that one?
Or just one smaller 650gb partition ... not sure I can do that in Disk Util ??
M.
It supports TRIM if the driver supports TRIM. Unfortunately, the 644L (and I believe the 642L) do not detect the drives through AHCI, only as SCSI. Therefore, it doesn't use the driver that does the trimming. Also, highpoint told me TRIM doesn't work "yet" on the 644L.
At the Highpoint site it says that on the 642L, "Software Trim is supported" but
I think that would mean the Trim built into Apple software rather than using
an ad-on like "Trim Enabler" or am I reading that incorrectly ?
Martin.
I think that would mean the Trim built into Apple software rather than using
an ad-on like "Trim Enabler" or am I reading that incorrectly ?
Martin.
TRIM enabler, if I understand correctly, uses Apple software, just turns that option on where Apple wanted it off for some reason. Since TRIM enabler only works on the SATA driver, it wont turn on trim in SCSI which is how the 644L (and I think the 642L) are seen in OSX. Other SATA cards are seen as SATA, so enabling TRIM works fine.
I have pair of brand new EVO 840 1TB (which is not the pro series). I have Quick Bench test numbers: USB3.0 and TB in a LaCie Rugged Case and USB 3.0 in a FirmTek miniswap case to a Mid 2012 MBP and a MP 2.1 with a USB3.0 card. Not the same SSD, but do you want to see those tests?
Here you go.
Samsung 840EVO 1TB (non-Pro) using quick bench is the SSD in all of these.
Obviously the slots in the MP2.1 are probably the bottleneck when connected to it, vs my Mid 2012 MBP (non-retina) (beyond my pay grade to verify). My nMP arrives Thursday
The miniswap by Firmtek is a fast enclosure. Little heavy to lug around as a portable. So I pulled the 128 GB SSD drive out of a LaCie Rugged Case and put the 840 in it and then ran the speed tests since this weighs the least of all the portables I have in my tool kit.
Attachments
Here you go.
Samsung 840EVO 1TB (non-Pro) using quick bench is the SSD in all of these.
Obviously the slots in the MP2.1 are probably the bottleneck when connected to it, vs my Mid 2012 MBP (non-retina) (beyond my pay grade to verify). My nMP arrives Thursday
The miniswap by Firmtek is a fast enclosure. Little heavy to lug around as a portable. So I pulled the 128 GB SSD drive out of a LaCie Rugged Case and put the 840 in it and then ran the speed tests since this weighs the least of all the portables I have in my tool kit.
Thank you, that's nice to compare.
I really appreciate your post Reno Richter
Cheers
What surprised me was that the LaCie was slower then the firmtech miniswap and that in the LaCie case, USB3.0 was faster then TB1 when connected to my MBP