Samsung innovating hard

[The-Real-Deal82]

No one -- not bloggers, professional writers, reviewers, nor people -- seemed to have any problem proclaiming the iPhone was the best smartphone all those years when it was the best smartphone. Myself included.

Now, if something non-Apple takes the claim of "best," suddenly, best is subjective and we can't really call anything best. What does "best" even mean? Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. Blah blah blah.

Strange.

No you completely missed the point I was making. I said 'best' is subjective and it always has been as far as I am concerned. I have no problem with you claiming the S6 is the best smartphone but my point is it is an opinion that not everybody will share. I have an iPhone because I prefer iOS over any Android skin I've ever used, especially TouchWiz and that for me is more important than any hardware a device boasts. For others it's perhaps different and that is absolutely acceptable because the market offers options.

The iPhone was considered the best for so long because there was nothing close to competing with it. Now we have a mass of alternatives including the S6. Why do you seek that everybody agrees with your version of 'best'?

 

[MRU]

Funny you should say that, it seems most have no problems with the new software. No software experience is perfect, and in the end I prefer facts to measure performance. What I perceive isn't running smoothly could be far from the truth. Apps refreshing may look like it's an issue, but what if the overall time to perform desired functions is still faster than the rest. Here's a shootout using real life tests.

http://www.tomsguide.com/us/fastest-smartphone,review-2881.html

No one disputes on an individual app opening basis it's the fastest phone.

But who opens only 1 app at a time in the course of a day ? Surely phonebuffs speedtest which shows indeed the S6 is fastest initially but when it comes to refreshing it loses to even the iPhone 6 shows exactly what I mean - behind the fantastic hardware, software is hindering it.

iPhone 6/M9/S6

LG G4/S6

In every day usage over the course of a day those refreshes / reloads mean the phone just doesn't feel as snappy as the hardware definitely is.

Hence I truly would like to see less innovation hardware wise and far more 'Refinement' in software - which can only serve to make an even better handset.

They need to stop just 'proclaiming' they're de-bloating and making Touchwiz less of a resource hog and actually put that 'pledge' into practice.

Every single one of us using the device would benefit - there would be no negative impact or reason to argue against them doing this.

Tizen shows they actually do have the potential to make a lightweight OS - just wish that expertise crossed over to Touchwiz.

The only thing holding back Samsung from being the supreme android handset manufacturer in almost every regard is its Touchwiz. Refine that - not the hardware - and they would be universally praised.

 

[maflynn]

I always view Samsung a company that throws a lot against the wall and sees what sticks. This worked for them for a while, but they've been getting enough misses that I think it hurts their overall appeal. They seem to have refocused on what works in the phone department and are pushing the envelope trying to make some great products.

 

[cube]

I hate running out of space when recording video, at the insane resolution the Note 4 uses that's pretty darn quick. I definitely have no need for a removable battery and think most don't either with low power mode, quick charge, etc. But the loss of removable memory would really make me think twice about a Note 5. But then again almost nobody has removable memory anymore, sigh.

Yes, of course this is also a requirement, I was not sure if one of their current top was crippled this way.

I will not buy any phone without either removable battery or microSDXC slot.

 

[JaySoul]

Great thread - gotta give credit where it is due, and Samsung do push forward.

Sometimes what you leave out is important in the final product, but their R&D is awesome.

 

[Savor]

Samsung is going through what Sony was in their heyday. Great at hardware. Weak at software. Except Sony also gave us a bunch of failed proprietary standards.

 

[scott craft]

No one disputes on an individual app opening basis it's the fastest phone.

But who opens only 1 app at a time in the course of a day ? Surely phonebuffs speedtest which shows indeed the S6 is fastest initially but when it comes to refreshing it loses to even the iPhone 6 shows exactly what I mean - behind the fantastic hardware, software is hindering it.

iPhone 6/M9/S6

LG G4/S6

In every day usage over the course of a day those refreshes / reloads mean the phone just doesn't feel as snappy as the hardware definitely is.

Hence I truly would like to see less innovation hardware wise and far more 'Refinement' in software - which can only serve to make an even better handset.

They need to stop just 'proclaiming' they're de-bloating and making Touchwiz less of a resource hog and actually put that 'pledge' into practice.

Every single one of us using the device would benefit - there would be no negative impact or reason to argue against them doing this.

Tizen shows they actually do have the potential to make a lightweight OS - just wish that expertise crossed over to Touchwiz.

The only thing holding back Samsung from being the supreme android handset manufacturer in almost every regard is its Touchwiz. Refine that - not the hardware - and they would be universally praised.

App refreshing is something Erica Griffin mentioned also in her video in the S6. It will be interesting to see if a future update helps the S6 in that area.

 

[jamezr]

I think the app refreshing is an issue for some...but not for all people. I have no issues with ap refreshing on the S6. I can open one app come back to it and never have had an refresh. The app refreshing is a pet peeve for some but for most it is not an issue because they don't go back 3 or 4 apps later and expect the app to NOT be refreshed. I personally do not use my phones that way. I expect this to be the norm as well.
I mean people have a perfect way to avoid the issue. Just don't buy the phones. Problem solved. It makes no sense to buy phones you don't like then complain about them time and time again.

Samsung's Tizen by most accounts does not refresh apps and it is a step in right direction.
But TW is what it is. I do see app refreshes after a certain point. But for me and my normal uses I have never seen refreshes the way some have reported here.
I have Tapatalk open in the middle of a post...get an email. Read the email....then check a Facebook notification. Follow the notification and reply on Facebook. Then open Tapatalk again to continue my post. No refreshes.


It is amazing how much Samsung hate you see in these threads. People...if you don't like their software....don't buy their phones!

 

[jamezr]

No one -- not bloggers, professional writers, reviewers, nor people -- seemed to have any problem proclaiming the iPhone was the best smartphone all those years when it was the best smartphone. Myself included.

Now, if something non-Apple takes the claim of "best," suddenly, best is subjective and we can't really call anything best. What does "best" even mean? Everybody has strengths and weaknesses. Blah blah blah.

Strange.

Exactly. Then these same people will be hailing the IP6s as the best smartphone available upon release.
They sure won't be nit picking it the way they do Android phones. You sure won't see them in any forum saying anything negative about Apple.

Truth is Samsung is the most innovating company right now. That is a hard realization that most just cannot fathom.

 

[Abazigal]

Exactly. Then these same people will be hailing the IP6s as the best smartphone available upon release.
They sure won't be nit picking it the way they do Android phones. You sure won't see them in any forum saying anything negative about Apple.

Truth is Samsung is the most innovating company right now. That is a hard realization that most just cannot fathom.

Adding the word "truth" in front of an opinion doesn't automatically make it a fact.

 

[jamezr]

Adding the word "truth" in front of an opinion doesn't automatically make it a fact.

Feel free to disagree all you want. But truth is that is my opinion and to me that is a truth.

 

[spinedoc77]

Depends what the lowest built in storage is for you...64GB might be the lowest amount i hear

True, but I read a 200gb microSD card was just released and supposedly a 512gb is close to being released as well. I know the internal memory is an upgrade compared to the speed of external memory, but I've never seen my external memory run "slowly" anyhow. I still think removal of external memory is mostly based on upcharging customers and making money and they use the specs as a marketing/bullet point to make it sound as if they are doing us a favor.

 

[AZhappyjack]

I always view Samsung a company that throws a lot against the wall and sees what sticks. This worked for them for a while, but they've been getting enough misses that I think it hurts their overall appeal. They seem to have refocused on what works in the phone department and are pushing the envelope trying to make some great products.

I tend to agree with this. The thing that I find most interesting is that Samsung is now following Apple's lead with things like non-removable batteries and removal of the memory card slot. And of course, Apple is following theirs (and other Android manufacturers) with larger screens. It's pretty much what happens these days.

I also am somewhat annoyed by their advertising. The latest ad that I've seen has to do with charging. The ad shows "how difficult" it is for an Apple user to find a plug and plug in their charger, and they compare that process to simply laying their Samsung phone on a charging pad. Does the charging pad NOT have to be plugged into an electrical outlet in order to function? Of course it does, but the implication is that finding an electrical outlet and plugging the charger pad in is somehow miraculously easier with a Samsung charger than with an Apple charger. Once that's accomplished, how much harder is it to plug in a lightning connector than to lay the phone on a charging pad?

Samsung's hardware is coming along nicely, the software IMO is a downside, and their advertising is somewhat disingenuous. But "best" is what works for you. In my case, it's still Apple/iOS.

 

[AZhappyjack]

Truth is Samsung is the most innovating company right now. That is a hard realization that most just cannot fathom.

The Samsung S6 does not have a user removable battery or a memory card slot... do you consider that innovation? Apple has done that all along with the iPhone.

IMO, the "edge" thing on the S6 Edge is a gimmick.

But that's why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors - not everyone like the same thing.

 

[jamezr]

True, but I read a 200gb microSD card was just released and supposedly a 512gb is close to being released as well. I know the internal memory is an upgrade compared to the speed of external memory, but I've never seen my external memory run "slowly" anyhow. I still think removal of external memory is mostly based on upcharging customers and making money and they use the specs as a marketing/bullet point to make it sound as if they are doing us a favor.

I think there is some truth that. But I also see Samsung's point anyway. They included an industry leading SSD drive in the S6 that is faster than most SD cards. Now imagine accessing data on the SD card and getting a hesitation? As much as Samsung gets beat up for TW being slow and lag? I could see their hesitation to keep it.
But at the end of the day i think you are right. I think all companies are using it as a profit making move.

 

[spinedoc77]

I think there is some truth that. But I also see Samsung's point anyway. They included an industry leading SSD drive in the S6 that is faster than most SD cards. Now imagine accessing data on the SD card and getting a hesitation? As much as Samsung gets beat up for TW being slow and lag? I could see their hesitation to keep it.
But at the end of the day i think you are right. I think all companies are using it as a profit making move.

That's true, with the amount of crying that people do for miniscule stuff I could see someone making a thread "My Note 5 lags for .001 milliseconds when accessing the external memory, Samsung ripped me off I'm going back to Apple!!!"

 

[scott craft]

In the S6 what features would be considered innovative rather than evolutionary? I'm not knocking the phone at all, and maybe I haven't played with it enough, but it seems to be an improvement on features that were already available.

 

[jamezr]

The Samsung S6 does not have a user removable battery or a memory card slot... do you consider that innovation? Apple has done that all along with the iPhone.

IMO, the "edge" thing on the S6 Edge is a gimmick.

But that's why Baskin-Robbins has 31 flavors - not everyone like the same thing.

No the S6 does not have a SD card or removable battery.....and your point was? Neither does the iphone. The Note 4 has a S-Pen and was one of the first "phablets" and has a SD Card and removable battery. My IP6 does not have either of those. Do you consider that innovation?

Looks like Apple followed the industry with larger screens. That worked out well for them huh?

 

[AZhappyjack]

No the S6 does not have a SD card or removable battery.....and your point was? Neither does the iphone. The Note 4 has a S-Pen and was one of the first "phablets" and has a SD Card and removable battery. My IP6 does not have either of those. Do you consider that innovation?

Looks like Apple followed the industry with larger screens. That worked out well for them huh?

My point was that Samsung users (and Android in general) have knocked the iOS users all along as "wall huggers", etc for lack of battery - claiming among other things the ability to pop a fresh battery into their devices when necessary. Now they've removed that option - yet we're discussing their "innovation". Ironic, eh?

I'm just questioning IF it's innovative to remove features that you touted as strengths of your device compared to the competition (iPhone).

I use iPhone. That's what works for me. Use whatever works for you. But I say copying the features of another manufacturer is NOT innovation, regardless of who copies whom. Now, if you can copy and IMPROVE a feature, that's a different discussion.

 

[jamezr]

That's true, with the amount of crying that people do for miniscule stuff I could see someone making a thread "My Note 5 lags for .001 milliseconds when accessing the external memory, Samsung ripped me off I'm going back to Apple!!!"

Here's one for you to follow that example. They say in Android M you can move apps to the SD Card. Now you have the Note 5 and move apps tot he SD Card. Now you get app refreshes and lag because the app can't keep up with the OS because it is on slower storage. Just playing devil's advocate here. I really hope the Note 5 comes with a SD Card.

 

[jamezr]

My point was that Samsung users (and Android in general) have knocked the iOS users all along as "wall huggers", etc for lack of battery - claiming among other things the ability to pop a fresh battery into their devices when necessary. Now they've removed that option - yet we're discussing their "innovation". Ironic, eh?

I'm just questioning IF it's innovative to remove features that you touted as strengths of your device compared to the competition (iPhone).

I see your point but I think you missed the whole point of the S6. It is the fastest phone I have ever used bar none. The S6 as a whole is innovating.
The wall huggers thing you mentioned was pure marketing hype by a company. that does not mean all Android users feel the same way. See the difference? I wish my S6 had an SD card. I also feel my 6+ battery is one of the best on any smartphone.
But at the end of the day the features you mentioned are not found on any iphone. But they can be found on a lot of Samsung and Android phones.

 

[spinedoc77]

Here's one for you to follow that example. They say in Android M you can move apps to the SD Card. Now you have the Note 5 and move apps tot he SD Card. Now you get app refreshes and lag because the app can't keep up with the OS because it is on slower storage. Just playing devil's advocate here. I really hope the Note 5 comes with a SD Card.

You know what, I didn't think of that. I have some apps on my SD card on my N4 and I don't feel they function much differently or any slower than internal memory, but then again my N4 is dog slow with most stuff I do on it anyway. So basically your saying the internal memory will improve function so much that what we are used to seeing on the N4 will look very slow on the N5, makes sense.

It's just comical that Samsung needs to go to these extremes to improve performance, cutting important hardware features because they can't seem to optimize their software/OS.

 

[MRU]

I think the app refreshing is an issue for some...but not for all people. I have no issues with ap refreshing on the S6. I can open one app come back to it and never have had an refresh. The app refreshing is a pet peeve for some but for most it is not an issue because they don't go back 3 or 4 apps later and expect the app to NOT be refreshed. I personally do not use my phones that way. I expect this to be the norm as well.
I mean people have a perfect way to avoid the issue. Just don't buy the phones. Problem solved. It makes no sense to buy phones you don't like then complain about them time and time again.

Samsung's Tizen by most accounts does not refresh apps and it is a step in right direction.
But TW is what it is. I do see app refreshes after a certain point. But for me and my normal uses I have never seen refreshes the way some have reported here.
I have Tapatalk open in the middle of a post...get an email. Read the email....then check a Facebook notification. Follow the notification and reply on Facebook. Then open Tapatalk again to continue my post. No refreshes.


It is amazing how much Samsung hate you see in these threads. People...if you don't like their software....don't buy their phones!

Jamezr your entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else but in fairness you are being overly defensive here.

It is meant to be a grown up discussion about why / how Samsung should continue to innovate.

No-one has posted anything hateful in this thread towards the S6 / S6 Edge - only that for many it's software is hindering the fantastic hardware of the device and that maybe Samsung's next true innovation should be lead by Software improvements rather than Hardware. That's balanced / objective criticism.

And it's not just app refreshes that show a lack of focus / attention to detail software wise - it's little things like the fact that the new touchwiz breaks many widgets due to the way Samsung has implemented its grid sizing so that it no longer conforms to standard - meaning certain 4x1 widgets are no longer properly displayed such as Google Music.

Sure this isn't something that breaks the phone - but it highlights that not as much care goes into the software as clearly the S6 / S6 Edge hardware. That if Samsung did for their next flagship said "OK hardware wise were in a good place so were only improving the usual (battery life etc.) but software is going to be our main focus this year " - then it would benefit all of us - even those that are willing to put up with it's quirks currently.

This is not hating of Samsung - if anything it's egging Samsung on so that it can produce the best handset - one that not only excels hardware wise, but software wise too.

 

[jamezr]

Jamezr your entitled to your opinion as much as anyone else but in fairness you are being overly defensive here.

It is meant to be a grown up discussion about why / how Samsung should continue to innovate.

No-one has posted anything hateful in this thread towards the S6 / S6 Edge - only that for many it's software is hindering the fantastic hardware of the device and that maybe Samsung's next true innovation should be lead by Software improvements rather than Hardware. That's balanced / objective criticism.

And it's not just app refreshes that show a lack of focus / attention to detail software wise - it's little things like the fact that the new touchwiz breaks many widgets due to the way Samsung has implemented its grid sizing so that it no longer conforms to standard - meaning certain 4x1 widgets are no longer properly displayed such as Google Music.

Sure this isn't something that breaks the phone - but it highlights that not as much care goes into the software as clearly the S6 / S6 Edge hardware. That if Samsung did for their next flagship say - OK hardware wise were in a good place - software is going to be our main focus this year - then it would benefit all of us - even those that are willing to put up with it's quirks currently.

I don't think I am being defensive as much as not seeing balanced or objective criticism. I think Samsung innovates more than any other smartphone maker. I don't see the criticism or complaints about lack of attention to detail for other OEMs. It seems that complaining about Samsung has become the trendy thing to do. I don't see the objectivity you have for other smartphone makers like say Motorola or Sony. Vanilla Android gets a pass while Samsung gets TW is bloated.
Complaining about app refreshes in every Samsung thread gets a little old after a while. When you yourself admitted in other threads that is was being blown out of proportion and affected very little people. Not very balanced

This was a thread about Samsung innovation not a bitch session about app refreshes.
Then you mention attention to software detail yet give the Moto X or Nexus 6 a pass on a simple little thing like a battery meter to display the current status of the battery. Not very balanced. I know you felt burned by lack of support for the Alpha. You seem to be on a mission to make Samsung pay for it.

People seem to hold Samsung to a different standard than other OEMs. Things they complain Samsung should do they do not expect from other OEMs.
For me I have gone through a lot of phones that i did not like. Some of the things I did not like were software and others hardware. But very rarely will you see me complain about them. Because while it wasn't a fit for me. I respect that it might be a great fit for someone else. I don't feel the need to constantly complain about it.

Does TW need work? Yes it does. It could use a little toning down. Maybe make some of the features downloadable add ons. The grid sizing is not an issue for me as I use Nova. But I would love to see that kind of functionality Nova offers in TW. IMHO TW is still a very big step over vanilla Android. It offers lot more functionality and features. It shows more attention to detail in the features it offers than vanilla Android.
Anyway I respect your opinion MRU and don't mean to offend in anyway.

 

[Sevanw]

Again, user experience is a moot point as it's totally subjective. App refreshes, microstutters, etc... are pet peeves. The overwhelming majority of users will not have an issue with this where they will choose another phone over a phone like the S6. Just look at how many tech junkies/reviewers are using the S6 as a daily driver. There is no amount of software optimization that can make up for inferior hardware down the road. There's a point where you just gotta stop the BS and say, show me exactly where my money is going. Show me why your phone using dated hardware is priced the same or more than this phone that is using cutting edge hardware. Don't tell me how you feel your user experience is lag free when I know it really isn't, don't tell me how your OS is less buggy when I know it isn't, don't tell me more MP don't mean better image quality when I already know that's not the point for more MP, but then you introduce more MP in your next phone, don't tell me a bigger screen is unweildly, but then you introduce a phone with a bigger screen. See what I'm getting at? I want hardware innovation because there's no BS in that. There's a future in advanced hardware. Just look at all the iPhone/iPad users that don't get features of future updates because of lacking hardware. There's is absolutely no point in discussing user experience these days as it's a personal thing. Software can be updated on the same device, hardware cannot. Hardware and prices are facts that cannot be disputed. Let's stick to facts.