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Hi nanofrog, I totally agree with what your saying, as the 4X slot is no slower than the 16X slot and yes it will throttle a sata 3 SSD drive marginally, but its still a lot faster than the mac 4.1 5.1 SATA 2 system. to which iam seeing very nearly double the speed and through put. even built in SATA 3 on some M/Boards PC based are not reaching full speed. but over my SATA 2 SSD this vertex 3 with the card beats it at double the speed. so for us waiting for the new mac pro with SATA 3 we can now get at least 1 SSD SATA 3 drive running almost at full speed using a very cheap card in a PCIE X4 slot.

also some who won't be buying new mac pro when they finally arrive will benefit from SATA 3 speed on there older mac pros.
Ah, OK. I didn't see your posts as a SATA II vs. SATA III, but rather as asking about the "best slot to use".

It also seemed mentioning the limitations with these low cost SATA III controllers (due to PCIe 2.0 specification @ 1x lane = less than what SATA III can actually sustain).

As per boards not running at full speed, there's a couple of possibilities;
  1. Low cost 3rd party SATA III controllers (same ASM1061 or similar, such as that offered by Marvell).
  2. Pipeline the chipset connects to the CPU was limited in order to allow for all controllers to be able to push data (things like Ethernet, USB, and audio won't stall due to SATA devices hogging all of the available DMI bandwidth). Intel has done this with former ICH parts (i.e. SATA II limited to ~ 660MB/s for the SATA II controller, and it appears they've continued with this with DMI 2.0 as well - it keeps it simple = lowers costs).
The description for the ASM on amazon.fr says that it only has 2 ports, with dip switches to select internal/external.
The controller used can only operate two ports. To keep costs low and give the user flexibility, they used jumpers to allow the user to select the port types/combination they want (all internal, all external, or hybrid <1 int + 1 ext>). Other companies, such as Highpoint, don't offer this capability (Highpoint offers a 2x internal port and 2x external port cards), and newertech only offers an external version.

It's a good compromise IMO, as they're still inexpensive and users do get the added flexibility. ;)
 
This is a great find... Thanks for sharing.

I'm probably going to buy a new SATA3 SSD soon, and may use this to get the most out of it in my 2009 Mac Pro.

It would be ideal if it was a 4X card though so one could run a couple of SSD's on it without worrying about bottlenecks. :(

Just to make an informed decision, what other PCI-E card choices do I have that work with the Mac Pro. I don't need expensive HW RAID... just PCI-E to SATA3.
 
It is a great find, yes. Anyone know if it's reasonable to get two SATA cables from the card through to the optical drive slots ? Heck, I wouldn't even mind dangling an SSD out the Mac Pro's backside !
 
I'm considering a 512GB Crucial M4 for my Aperture Photo Libraries.

With the reviews I've seen of this card, I could get about 400MB/s sequential read/write performance.

With two 256GB M4's in RAID0 on the built-in SATA2 I could probably get better performance (likely closer to 600MB/s).

What non-bootable SATA3 card would let me get full performance of either the single 512GB drive or even better... a RAID0 array of two 256GB drives?

Thoughts?
 
Ah, OK. I didn't see your posts as a SATA II vs. SATA III, but rather as asking about the "best slot to use".

It also seemed mentioning the limitations with these low cost SATA III controllers (due to PCIe 2.0 specification @ 1x lane = less than what SATA III can actually sustain).

As per boards not running at full speed, there's a couple of possibilities;
  1. Low cost 3rd party SATA III controllers (same ASM1061 or similar, such as that offered by Marvell).
  2. Pipeline the chipset connects to the CPU was limited in order to allow for all controllers to be able to push data (things like Ethernet, USB, and audio won't stall due to SATA devices hogging all of the available DMI bandwidth). Intel has done this with former ICH parts (i.e. SATA II limited to ~ 660MB/s for the SATA II controller, and it appears they've continued with this with DMI 2.0 as well - it keeps it simple = lowers costs).

The controller used can only operate two ports. To keep costs low and give the user flexibility, they used jumpers to allow the user to select the port types/combination they want (all internal, all external, or hybrid <1 int + 1 ext>). Other companies, such as Highpoint, don't offer this capability (Highpoint offers a 2x internal port and 2x external port cards), and newertech only offers an external version.

It's a good compromise IMO, as they're still inexpensive and users do get the added flexibility. ;)

Have you considered skipping SATA3 and going with a PCIe SSD Card?

Example of one

http://www.a-power.com/product-21161-635-2

Interface
PCI-Express(x4)
Read:
Up to 740 MB/s
Write:
Up to 690 MB/s
Sustained Write:
Up to 550 MB/s
 
Great find! Has anyone tried booting from OSX 10.6 with this? And I'm also interested to see where you have put the SSD. I was looking at sticking one in the optical drive bay, where I already have a single 2.5" HD, but the cabling looks a little tricky...
 
:eek:

Well I've got a mac 4.1 that i updated to 5.1 fitted a hex W3680 + 1333 memory, and thought SATA 3 would be nice and found this card which comes up in lion with native drivers and gives me SATA 3 and 400+ MBS read speeds!


Now Iam happy!:D

Would you mind posting a screenshot from System Profiler that shows the PCI-Cards (not the SATA Ports)? I am wondering about the chipset being used by the card.

If this is Marvel, as Nanofrog pointed out, then I am wondering how booting is possible - the Highpoint Rocket 620/622 with the Marvel chipset won't boot at all.

Cheers
 
Would you mind posting a screenshot from System Profiler that shows the PCI-Cards (not the SATA Ports)? I am wondering about the chipset being used by the card.

If this is Marvel, as Nanofrog pointed out, then I am wondering how booting is possible - the Highpoint Rocket 620/622 with the Marvel chipset won't boot at all.

Cheers

The chipset is the ASM1061 CHIPSET SATA 3.0 : its not the marvel chipset
 
Ok as promised a picture of how it looks inside my mac pro

DSC01818.jpg


The SSD is under sled 4 as you can see, where the 3.5" drive would normally be, the power cable is a SATA extension cable with both male and female connectors, one connects to motherboard where the 3.5" drive would normally connect to, the other to the SSD drive. SATA cable from SSD to PCIE card which is in PCIE 4X slot 4.

Iam waiting for a 15cm SATA cable to arrive which will make it even more tidy in the case when fitted. but iam happy with how it all fitted and looks. the other HD,s are my bootcamp and music drives in slot 2 and 3 with my original vertex 2 bigfoot SATA 2 drive in slot 1 which i now use for my scratch disk ect. or i might even change it into my bootcamp drive!

No problems so far, everything is running sweet and boots are fast, if you go by the circle under the apple logo, it goes one time round and a third and its booted
 
It would be ideal if it was a 4X card though so one could run a couple of SSD's on it without worrying about bottlenecks. :(

Just to make an informed decision, what other PCI-E card choices do I have that work with the Mac Pro. I don't need expensive HW RAID... just PCI-E to SATA3.
The only one I can think of that's specifically for the MP, is the RocketRAID Quad eSATA 6Gb/s for Mac. On the plus side, it has EFI64 firmware according to the Details page, so it should boot OS X.

Have you considered skipping SATA3 and going with a PCIe SSD Card?
It doesn't have any drivers for OS X (promised some time ago, but still vaporware), nor would it boot if the drivers did exist (currently, it doesn't have EFI/EBC firmware = what's needed to boot in a MP).

Nor do any other PCIe Flash drives AFAIK (there are other threads on this). :(
 
Ok, so I bought two of those ASMedia based PCI-E controllers. I put them in my Mac Pro 4,1 - Slot 2 and 3. Here are my findings:

1.) Does NOT boot my SSD (Software)-RAID0 Array with Lion 10.7.2, each SSD connected to a separate controller.

2.) Does NOT boot my SSD RAID-0 Array, all SSDs connected to the same controller (in either slot).

3.) Does NOT boot Windows 7 DVD when DVD-ROM is connected to the controller.

4.) Does NOT boot Linux CDs from the DVD-ROM.

5.) It actually DOES boot from Mac OS X Lion install DVD.

More: When my boot SSDs are connected to the controller(s), no other boot partition (including Lion Recovery HD) connected to the internal controller or to another eSATA controller will boot anymore. As soon as I remove the SSDs from the ASmedia controller, everything is back to normal. Looks like these controllers are confusing the hell out of my Mac.

Unfortunately I did not have any spare drives lying around or else I would tried to restore my time machine backup to them and try booting then.

One thing that's different from the Highpoint controllers I tried though is the fact that the ASMedia controllers at least try to boot. In verbose boot mode I can see that Mac OS is waiting for a root drive (which obviously never shows up). With the Rocket 620 I didn't get that far.

I can not rule out that the root cause is my RAID-0 Array. Maybe it works better on non-RAID or when you do a fresh install or restore. Although I have moved this array to another controller before and Apple's software RAID shouldn't really care.

I am planning to buy new SSD drives in the near future so I am going to keep those controllers and try again then.

However, it looks like these controllers might not work (boot) on every Mac.
 
Hello funkhadafi,

Does it boot (for you) on a non-raid SSD?

Also, Lion and RAIDs are still not the best of friends: we can hope that 10.7.3 will fix that.

Loa
 
Hello funkhadafi,

Does it boot (for you) on a non-raid SSD?

Also, Lion and RAIDs are still not the best of friends: we can hope that 10.7.3 will fix that.

Loa

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to try that because I did not have any spare drives available to play with.

Is there reason to hope 10.7.3 does something in the area of RAID?
 
Is there reason to hope 10.7.3 does something in the area of RAID?
OS X has tended to bork RAID's in the first few releases before they get it sorted. Even if they do, you still have to be careful with later updates, as it can get borked again (10.6.6 comes to mind...).
 
As stated above after reading about raid on mac osx and its unreliability i didnt bother with even trying raid but with 1 sata 3 SSD the card boots fine and i still havnt had a glitch yet so iam very pleased with the cheapo SATA 3 solution so far:)

It would be nice if they did a hardware raid card with this chipset that booted in OSX:D
 
It would be nice if they did a hardware raid card with this chipset that booted in OSX:D
There's much better out there that will do exactly this. Specifically, products from both Areca and ATTO (just flash the boot portion of the firmware with EFI/EBC code they provide, and voilà - bootable hardware RAID volume for OS X). :D

The downside of course, is they aren't exactly cheap by most people's definition (exceed $500USD for a model that's 6.0Gb/s compliant). :eek: :p
 
I'm using Lion. I just plugged this in this morning and booted up without any issue. It bumped my speed (in AJA) from ~225 MB/s to ~365MB/s.

Then we must all be using different cards. It definitely does not boot in my Mc Pro 4,1 - using Lion as well.

Problem as I see it - those cards are all no name, mine doesn't even have a brand sticker and it came in OEM packaging. All I know is it is using the ASMedia chipset. Now one vendor might add EFI to the card (which is needed to boot), the other might not.

It would be nice if one of the known brands would deliver something, or for once, be clear about what their card does. Can't be so hard if the no name dudes from China can do it, right?

I bought 6 (!) PCI-E SATA 3 cards the last two months, none of them boot.
 
Then we must all be using different cards. It definitely does not boot in my Mc Pro 4,1 - using Lion as well.

Problem as I see it - those cards are all no name, mine doesn't even have a brand sticker and it came in OEM packaging. All I know is it is using the ASMedia chipset. Now one vendor might add EFI to the card (which is needed to boot), the other might not.

It would be nice if one of the known brands would deliver something, or for once, be clear about what their card does. Can't be so hard if the no name dudes from China can do it, right?

I bought 6 (!) PCI-E SATA 3 cards the last two months, none of them boot.

Just to clarify. You mentioned in an earlier post that the card you acquired with the ASM chipset did not boot your SSD Raid. Are you able to boot an individual 6G SSD without a Raid configuration from the ASM chipset based card?

I am trying to decide if it is worth trying to track down one of these generic no-name cards that will work with my 6G SSD or if I am better of waiting for a known brand to deliver something that actually boots.
 
Hi, well iam useing this very card and it boots fine in my mac pro!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/PCIE-SATA-eSATA-CONTROLLER-CARD/dp/B00560ZOGO?tag=5336090759-21


Get this one and it will boot no problem:)

I wish I could, but they don't ship to Germany ;)

Instead, I found and ordered this one:
http://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B005GCXS10

which, after close inspection of the pictures should be the same card.

Not booting.

----------

Just to clarify. You mentioned in an earlier post that the card you acquired with the ASM chipset did not boot your SSD Raid. Are you able to boot an individual 6G SSD without a Raid configuration from the ASM chipset based card?

No, I didn't. I did not have another SSD available. All I had were my dusted Intel first gen X25-M and they did not boot on that controller.

But... the card did not boot any CD or DVD from the DVD drive that a connected to the card either. That should be the most simple task. If that doesn't work then what else?

As for RAID being the reason it didn't boot: I doubt that. The array wasn't built on a hardware raid controller, it's pure software Raid (Apple!). Usually, if you can boot a non-raid volume from a controller, you can also boot the arrays.

This is all speculation of course. The cards are very cheap. Just go ahead and buy one, not much to loose really. I would be very interested to hear if it boots from your machine.

Now that I think about it... I have had another e-SATA controller connected to the Mac (a Highpoint one). Maybe they didn't like each other and somehow prevented the boot process? I will investigate that...
 
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