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SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

Slot #3 and #4 share a x4 PCIe 2.0 connection via a PLX bridge solution. The maximum bandwidth from the two slots combined is 2000 MB/S Although the Samsung XP941 barely exceeds the maximum capabilities of a x2 connection, it requires 4 lanes for operation. Using Two Samsung XP941 in Slots 3 & 4 shares a single x4 PCIe connection over PLX, introducing overhead and performance loss across the board. Using the same configuration in Slots 2(8 guaranteed PCIe lines) and Slots 3 or 4 removes the PLX overhead that can be seen in the charts.

Slot #2 is the best option for cMP users that have upgraded to SATA 3 and USB 3.x. as long as you do not encounter the Deep Sleep bug my XP941 is plagued with. YMMV.

Loa said:
It is indeed surprising, what with iCloud Drive **only** working with PCs and iOS right now. Sheesh... Apple must have missed the fact that those SSDs were backwards compatible. Otherwise, they would have added firmware that would have prevented this.

:)

Loa

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Yes, using #2 *and* #3. But judging by the graphs, if my math is right and the slot is the bottleneck, slot #2 can only read at 1450 and write at 1050.

Not bad, but not able to handle a RAID0 of two 1TB Apple SSD on a X8 PCIe card.

Do we have other faster benchmarks of slot #2 on its own?

Loa
Click to expand...
 
Does Apple PCIe Blade SSD adapter works on Hackintosh and bootable?

Does Apple PCIe Blade SSD adapter works on Hackintosh and bootable too?
On sonnet site PCIe Blade SSD adapter is indicated that works on ssd of Macbooks 2013 only, you guys tested 1TB samsung ssd, that's the same of Mac Pro?
 
Right now what is the best deal to go PCIe SSD? The Apple part or the XP941? I only really need 512GB, performance is more concern to me than 1TB capacity since I have backup drives.
 
Zorn said:
Right now what is the best deal to go PCIe SSD? The Apple part or the XP941? I only really need 512GB, performance is more concern to me than 1TB capacity since I have backup drives.
Click to expand...

The Apple 1TB SSD appears to have the best value and performance.

The 512GB Samsung XP941 goes for £400, whereas the 1TB Apple SSD is £430.

Can probably grab one cheaper from South Korea, see two on eBay with starting bids of £314.
 
Pressure said:
The Apple 1TB SSD appears to have the best value and performance.

The 512GB Samsung XP941 goes for £400, whereas the 1TB Apple SSD is £430.

Can probably grab one cheaper from South Korea, see two on eBay with starting bids of £314.
Click to expand...

UK prices seem to definitely be a bit different...the 512GB XP941 is available for $499 US from Newegg and Amazon.

Edit: I picked up an Apple 2013 nMP 512GB SSD for $350 including shipping. Decent deal?
 
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So I have a couple questions around this since I just picked up one of the Apple SSDs.

What is the least expensive option for an adapter to use it in my 2009 Mac Pro? And also will any of the PCIe adapters work in a PC as well down the line if I were to switch it out?

Someone had mentioned that some of the Apple PCIe SSD's are 4lane vs 2lane...how do I know which I got?
 
crjackson2134 said:
So is this true for the 5,1 also, or does it apply only to earlier machines?
Click to expand...

Charles, I have never heard of this. I knew that all slots on the 1,1 and 2,1 were interconnected and configurable PCIe 1.0. On the 3,1 slots 1&2 are PCIe 2.0 (16 Lane) and slots 3&4 are PCIe 1.0 (4 Lane). On the 4,1 and 5,1 all slots PCIe 2.0. 1&2 and 16 Lane and 3&4 are 4 Lane. I've googled searched and can find no mention of the PLX Bridge. If there's one in there I owe you an apology.

Lou
 
Jack40 said:
Does Apple PCIe Blade SSD adapter works on Hackintosh and bootable too?
On sonnet site PCIe Blade SSD adapter is indicated that works on ssd of Macbooks 2013 only, you guys tested 1TB samsung ssd, that's the same of Mac Pro?
Click to expand...

Z98 and later chipsets support booting from onboard M.2 PCIe SSD's. IF mono vendors added the capability to boot the tech, a PCIe SSD in a PCIe slot, such as the Apple 1TB may be bootable. YMMV.

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crjackson2134 said:
So is this true for the 5,1 also, or does it apply only to earlier machines?
Click to expand...

3,1 and 1,1/2,1 have a different architecture. From what I remember, PCIe lanes can be assigned from multiple configurations with the PCIe slot utility.

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flowrider said:
Charles, I have never heard of this. I knew that all slots on the 1,1 and 2,1 were interconnected and configurable PCIe 1.0. On the 3,1 slots 1&2 are PCIe 2.0 (16 Lane) and slots 3&4 are PCIe 1.0 (4 Lane). On the 4,1 and 5,1 all slots PCIe 2.0. 1&2 and 16 Lane and 3&4 are 4 Lane. I've googled searched and can find no mention of the PLX Bridge. If there's one in there I owe you an apology.

Lou
Click to expand...

The PLX Bridge in the 4,1/5,1 only appeared on the technical manual from Apple(I've posted a screenshot from it) and was not a part of consumer documentation.

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Zorn said:
So I have a couple questions around this since I just picked up one of the Apple SSDs.

What is the least expensive option for an adapter to use it in my 2009 Mac Pro? And also will any of the PCIe adapters work in a PC as well down the line if I were to switch it out?

Someone had mentioned that some of the Apple PCIe SSD's are 4lane vs 2lane...how do I know which I got?
Click to expand...

There is only one adapter for this board. It can be found on ebay or can be purchased directly from sintech's online store. All of the 128/256/512GB Samsung apple flash SSD's I've seen on Ebay are 2 channel. The 1TB versions only come in 4 Channel. 256/512GB versions may be available from a nMP in 4 channel, but are extremely rare. Some Vendors identify they are x2 or x4.
 
handheldgames said:
There is only one adapter for this board. It can be found on ebay or can be purchased directly from sintech's online store. All of the 128/256/512GB Samsung apple flash SSD's I've seen on Ebay are 2 channel. The 1TB versions only come in 4 Channel. 256/512GB versions may be available from a nMP in 4 channel, but are extremely rare. Some Vendors identify they are x2 or x4.
Click to expand...

the module i bought is said to have come from a 2013 Mac Pro. Just luck of the draw I guess? Is it a large performance difference between 2 lane and 4 lane on the Apple SSD? And do you think $350 was a good price for one? Sorry for all the questions ; this is somewhat new to me.
 
handheldgames said:
The PLX Bridge in the 4,1/5,1 only appeared on the technical manual from Apple(I've posted a screenshot from it) and was not a part of consumer documentation.
Click to expand...


I'd love to see this source document (you know which one I mean ;)).
There is a PCIe switch onboard, but not the PLX one. It's the PES12T3G2 PCI Express Gen2 Switch. But from its datasheet it's 12 lane. Use lspci to get more info. It lists 3 of these, 36 lanes total. Other X58 diagrams show 2 x16 slots and 1 x4, so this would make sense.
If there would be PLX switch, it most likely would be PEX 8605 or 8604. And it would show up in lspci.

Here is an output from 4,1:

Code: 
pcilib: 0000:0d:00.0 64-bit device address ignored.
pcilib: 0000:05:00.0 64-bit device address ignored.
00:00.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation X58 I/O Hub to ESI Port [8086:3405] (rev 13)
00:01.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub PCI Express Root Port 1 [8086:3408] (rev 13)
00:03.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub PCI Express Root Port 3 [8086:340a] (rev 13)
00:07.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub PCI Express Root Port 7 [8086:340e] (rev 13)
00:0d.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:343a] (rev 13)
00:0d.1 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:343b] (rev 13)
00:0d.2 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:343c] (rev 13)
00:0d.3 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:343d] (rev 13)
00:0d.4 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Physical Layer Port 0 [8086:3418] (rev 13)
00:0d.5 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500 Physical Layer Port 1 [8086:3419] (rev 13)
00:0d.6 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:341a] (rev 13)
00:0d.7 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:341b] (rev 13)
00:0e.0 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:341c] (rev 13)
00:0e.1 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:341d] (rev 13)
00:0e.2 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:341e] (rev 13)
00:0e.3 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:341f] (rev 13)
00:0e.4 Host bridge [0600]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:3439] (rev 13)
00:0f.0 Performance counters [1101]: Intel Corporation Unknown device [8086:3424] (rev 13)
00:10.0 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Physical and Link Layer Registers Port 0 [8086:3425] (rev 13)
00:10.1 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Routing and Protocol Layer Registers Port 0 [8086:3426] (rev 13)
00:11.0 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500 Physical and Link Layer Registers Port 1 [8086:3427] (rev 13)
00:11.1 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500 Routing & Protocol Layer Register Port 1 [8086:3428] (rev 13)
00:13.0 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub I/OxAPIC Interrupt Controller [8086:342d] (rev 13)
00:14.0 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub System Management Registers [8086:342e] (rev 13)
00:14.1 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub GPIO and Scratch Pad Registers [8086:3422] (rev 13)
00:14.2 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub Control Status and RAS Registers [8086:3423] (rev 13)
00:14.3 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 I/O Hub Throttle Registers [8086:3438] (rev 13)
00:15.0 PIC [0800]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Trusted Execution Technology Registers [8086:342f] (rev 13)
00:16.0 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:3430] (rev 13)
00:16.1 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:3431] (rev 13)
00:16.2 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:3432] (rev 13)
00:16.3 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:3433] (rev 13)
00:16.4 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:3429] (rev 13)
00:16.5 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:342a] (rev 13)
00:16.6 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:342b] (rev 13)
00:16.7 System peripheral [0880]: Intel Corporation 5520/5500/X58 Chipset QuickData Technology Device [8086:342c] (rev 13)
00:1a.0 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #4 [8086:3a37]
00:1a.1 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #5 [8086:3a38]
00:1a.2 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #6 [8086:3a39]
00:1a.7 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #2 [8086:3a3c]
00:1b.0 Audio device [0403]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) HD Audio Controller [8086:3a3e]
00:1c.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Port 1 [8086:3a40]
00:1c.1 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Port 2 [8086:3a42]
00:1c.2 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Port 3 [8086:3a44]
00:1c.3 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Port 4 [8086:3a46]
00:1c.4 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Port 5 [8086:3a48]
00:1c.5 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) PCI Express Port 6 [8086:3a4a]
00:1d.0 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #1 [8086:3a34]
00:1d.1 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #2 [8086:3a35]
00:1d.2 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB UHCI Controller #3 [8086:3a36]
00:1d.7 USB Controller [0c03]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) USB2 EHCI Controller #1 [8086:3a3a]
00:1e.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Intel Corporation 82801 PCI Bridge [8086:244e] (rev 90)
00:1f.0 ISA bridge [0601]: Intel Corporation 82801JIB (ICH10) LPC Interface Controller [8086:3a18]
00:1f.2 SATA controller [0106]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) SATA AHCI Controller [8086:3a22]
00:1f.3 SMBus [0c05]: Intel Corporation 82801JI (ICH10 Family) SMBus Controller [8086:3a30]
01:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Integrated Device Technology, Inc. PES12T3G2 PCI Express Gen2 Switch [111d:8061] (rev 01)
02:02.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Integrated Device Technology, Inc. PES12T3G2 PCI Express Gen2 Switch [111d:8061] (rev 01)
02:04.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Integrated Device Technology, Inc. PES12T3G2 PCI Express Gen2 Switch [111d:8061] (rev 01)
04:00.0 SATA controller [0106]: Samsung Electronics Co Ltd Unknown device [144d:a800] (rev 01)
05:00.0 VGA compatible controller [0300]: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device [1002:6738]
05:00.1 Audio device [0403]: ATI Technologies Inc Unknown device [1002:aa88]
06:00.0 SATA controller [0106]: Unknown device [1b4b:9230] (rev 10)
09:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Intel Corporation 82574L Gigabit Network Connection [8086:10f6]
0a:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Intel Corporation 82574L Gigabit Network Connection [8086:10f6]
0b:00.0 PCI bridge [0604]: Texas Instruments XIO2213A PCI Express to PCI Bridge [104c:823e] (rev 01)
0c:00.0 FireWire (IEEE 1394) [0c00]: Texas Instruments XIO2213A 1394b OHCI with 3-Port PHY [104c:823f] (rev 01)
0d:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Broadcom Corporation BCM4328 802.11a/b/g/n [14e4:4328] (rev 03)
 
Last edited:
I appreciate the answers but I'm still unclear since most of this information is beyond my technical knowledge. I just want to know if slot 3 & 4 are sharing x4 bandwidth.
 
handheldgames said:
3,1 and 1,1/2,1 have a different architecture. From what I remember, PCIe lanes can be assigned from multiple configurations with the PCIe slot utility.
Click to expand...

Actually, you are half right. The 1,1 and the 2,1 did use the PCIe Utility for manually configurable Lane assignments. On the 3,1 and later cMPs the Lane assignment is permanently set.

Lou
 
Here is the full image.

I found a copy of the manuals here. http://tim.id.au/laptops/apple/macpro/

One more thing... While I quite don't remember where I read about a PLX solution in 4,1/5,1 The logs clearly show a IDT x4 PCI solution.. Thanks for the catch.
 

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I can verify that putting 2 of the NGFF blades in 3 & 4 didn't double throughput in a RAID 0.

All indications are that handheld is 100% accurate. I reformatted into separate machines, running them in 2 & 3 was too intrusive.
 
Zorn said:
So I have a couple questions around this since I just picked up one of the Apple SSDs.

What is the least expensive option for an adapter to use it in my 2009 Mac Pro? And also will any of the PCIe adapters work in a PC as well down the line if I were to switch it out?

Someone had mentioned that some of the Apple PCIe SSD's are 4lane vs 2lane...how do I know which I got?
Click to expand...

Go to eBay and order one from China/Hong Kong, the only adapter is made by Sintech. It should be 40 USD or under, don't pay more, it probably costs 2 dollars to make.

Look up your part number on the drive to find out how many lanes, I'm guessing 2 but it could be 4.
 
CASLondon said:
Go to eBay and order one from China/Hong Kong, the only adapter is made by Sintech. It should be 40 USD or under, don't pay more, it probably costs 2 dollars to make.

Look up your part number on the drive to find out how many lanes, I'm guessing 2 but it could be 4.
Click to expand...

The part number is S4LN053X01-8030.
 
Those of you that purchased the Sintech adapter, how long did it take to get to you? Looks like it's shipping via China Post.
 
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