SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[handheldgames]

On the left is a single 250gb Samsung 840 SSD on a velocity PCIe card and on the right is 2 250gb Samsung SSD's on a Sonnet Tempo PCIe card in RAID 0 striped (32kb). Am i getting the right kind of speeds?? it looks comparable as its made a logical step from the single SSD speed?? appreciate any ideas?
Image

A year ago December, I benchmarked 2 840Pro 256GB in a raid 0 (see first posts) against a 128GB Samsung XP941 and the smallest NGFF part had noticeable performance over the Raid0 SATA3 SSD's.

IMO... SATA III SSD's are for archival storage. PCIE SSD's are where it's at. Even Apple's x2 SSD's can easily outpace a traditional SATA ssd.

----------

Hi handheld, thank you so much for the work on keeping this thread updated. Really appreciate it. I started a related thread here (unwittingly):

https://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=20575049#post20575049

I really need a larger capacity SSD (at least 2TB) and OWC has this coming up for sale:

https://eshop.macsales.com/preorder/OWC-Aura-SSD-for-Mac-Pro/

I know it's not the fastest stick available, but it's fast enough for my needs and more importantly, it does 2TB.

Hoping you could answer a couple of questions:

(1) Is there any reason you think that the OWC 2tB Aura wouldn't work with one of the PCI adapters you linked to above?

(2) Do you know of any PCI adapters that would take 2 or maybe even 4 sticks (Do a simple hardware raid with them like the OWC accelsior card) so that you might be able to get a 4-8TB bootable SSD on a single PCI adapter?

Thanks for any help/feedback, and sorry if some of this was answered in this thread and I missed it.

There are not any multi-blade ssd cards available... yet... My fingers are crossed in 2015 for a dual x4 - x8 M.2 PCIE or a quad x4 M.2 PCIE x16 adapter.

These adapters should be relatively low cost without the need for A PLX multi-PCIE solution. While Sintech has had some offerings lately mixing PCIE and SATA NGFF devices, this is far from what we need.

With Samsung pushing the SM951 into mass production, a dual M.2 Adapter that can achieve 2.6 GB/S is overdue!

 

[apphotography]

With Samsung pushing the SM951 into mass production, a dual M.2 Adapter that can achieve 2.6 GB/S is overdue!

I have a dual adapter Bplus M2P4S It needs an extension cable to another slot for the second card to function. The guy at ssdreview.com had a dual x16 lane adapter made for him by Soliton but he said you still have to use two slots for a raid???? I don't know why, I use computers as my tool and have no time to understand all this technical stuff.

http://www.soliton.com.tw/modules.php?name=Products&op=viewarticle&artid=45

http://www.thessdreview.com/daily-n...ew-birds-eye-view-m-2-ngff-ssd-test-hardware/

http://www.thessdreview.com/our-rev...-0-worlds-smallest-ssd-combination-hits-2gbs/

 

[apphotography]

Whoever wants a Samsung SM951 send me a message. I have a contact who received shipment today and he is checking how many are unsold. Price is $620 for 512GB blade.

 

[MacVidCards]

This is going to be a riot.

We can already put internal drives in cMP that EQUAL nMP.

Soon we will have internal drives FASTER than nMP.

Having used a non-standard special Apple connector, they won't work in nMP (or other PCIE SSD Macs).

Apple being Apple they will likely alter their Proprietary SSD connector thus freezing out all of the "old" PCIE SSD machines from using the new 951.

This alone could be grounds for a nMP refresh soon.

And a new SSD connector might solve another problem for them, how to "lock" 6,1 into only using GPUs for 6,1. Move a few pins in bottom edge connector and WHAM !!! nMP stuck with 2011 era GPUs inside FOREVER.

(Thank goodness eGPUs are coming)

 

[SamPotts]

I almost got an SM951 when I got the 1TB Apple blade but the lack of trim is a deal breaker. Yes, I know you can enable it on Yosemite but it's just extra agro and you know if Apple don't want you to do it, they'll only make it harder and harder to do.

 

[apphotography]

TRIM drivers will come. Apple isn't stupid to not support all the drives they know will be attached to Macs otherwise there would be a class action suit. Did anyone even write a petition or bulk emails?

 

[SamPotts]

TRIM drivers will come. Apple isn't stupid to not support all the drives they know will be attached to Macs otherwise there would be a class action suit. Did anyone even write a petition?

That's not been the case to date though. You really think it'll change? I'm doubtful they will support native TRIM for third party SSDs.

 

[apphotography]

That's not been the case to date though. You really think it'll change? I'm doubtful they will support native TRIM for third party SSDs.

So collect signatures and petitions instead of sitting around waiting for hacks. Do you think anyone can claim 'Most advanced OS in the world' and then not even supply a driver to support the basic functions of all the SSDs in the world attached to Thunderbolt, USB, PCIe, Ethernet and wifi? You guys don't make enough noise. If you just rely on hacking this and that and don't make protests then no corporation or government will listen to you.

 

[apphotography]

(Thank goodness eGPUs are coming)

eGPUs is a stupid solution with cables and power supplies all over the place. One thunderbolt cable to the eGPU case. One video cable from the case to the monitor. One power supply connected from the wall to the case to power the slot. Another power supply connected from the wall to the graphics card because a cheap enclosure isn't going to do that. That's insane.

 

[TzunamiOSX]

TRIM drivers will come. Apple isn't stupid to not support all the drives they know will be attached to Macs otherwise there would be a class action suit. Did anyone even write a petition?

You are a dreamer!

Apple is blocking upgrade solutions since the 90s

Examples:
OS 7-9 SCSI CD/DVD driver works only with Apple Drives (HACKED)
OS 9 Software DVD Player only works with G4 and higher (HACKED)
OS 8-9 not on PPC upgraded Macs (HACKED)
OSX only on "New World Macs" (HACKED)
10.8 and higher only on 64 Bit EFI (HACKED)
Trim only with Apple SSDs (HACKED)
4K 60 Hz only with new Macs (HACKED)
SSD interface not compatible to the standard (adapter card)
RAM soldered to sell his own RAM (problem)

If you think, Apple will ad Trim for third party drives, then you are fare away from the reality. Yes, Apple isn't stupid! Apple want that you buy new Hardware from Apple, not from other guys.

 

[apphotography]

Examples:
OS 7-9 SCSI CD/DVD driver works only with Apple Drives (HACKED)
OS 9 Software DVD Player only works with G4 and higher (HACKED)
OS 8-9 not on PPC upgraded Macs (HACKED)
OSX only on "New World Macs" (HACKED)
10.8 and higher only on 64 Bit EFI (HACKED)
Trim only with Apple SSDs (HACKED)
4K 60 Hz only with new Macs (HACKED)
SSD interface not compatible to the standard (adapter card)
RAM soldered to sell his own RAM (problem)

There were practical reasons for most of the above for Apple not to support as the performance was subpar (and I don't even know why the last two are on your list because it has nothing to do with this). There is no practical reason for Apple not to develop full TRIM support as SSD is becoming the ubiquitous standard to attach not just internally but also externally. If you want it quicker you have to gather signatures instead of running into the arms of people who provide makeshift and half baked hacked solutions. On this forum I don't see any proactive involvement between Mac users and Apple/Nvidia/ATI/etc. it has been like that for years and that's most likely the reason for so much unhappiness. If you don't ask you won't be given.

 

[Marhowl]

My Lycom (or Sintech) adapter from Ebay arrived yesterday and I've put my Macbook Air 128GB Samsung SSD inside and booted it up

These are my results in slot 2

Not bad, considering that the whole solution actually cost me just 13 USD, because I got that SSD blade for free from a broken macbook air

 

[apphotography]

I fear all SM951 from the source are sold out and were reserved weeks ago by PC enthusiasts. Also confirmation the blade is ACHI.

 

[SamPotts]

Not sure if this is allowed but mods feel free to delete it if need be.

I have a Bplus Dual M.2 adapter for sale here:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/181635585146

 

[Foamsoup]

trouble shooting

Some awesome info in this thread. Couldn't resist ditching my Sata 2 boot drive after seeing these benchmarks.

I recently received the Sintech adapter and a 256gb apple blade on a 4,1. Works as advertised at first, but I've noticed I "lose" the ability to boot into the PCIe ssd on cold boots after I have shutdown. Upon powering up, I get stuck on the gray screen until the comp finds my old boot drive minutes later. When I boot back in my original boot drive (Samsung 830), the apple blade shows back up as an available start disk and I can start the process over again.

Have tried the normal trouble shooting fixed (SMC, PRAM, switching PCI slots). Any other thoughts on this?

Hi,
I'm having the same problem after migrating my boot drive to the 128 Apple blade on a Sintech adapter in slot 3 on a 5,1 Mac Pro. Happens after every cold boot.

Did you find a solution yet?

Could someone help to troubleshoot the issue?

Thanks!

ps.: I made some Yosemite PCIe Drive icons I'd like to share. (Best installed via Liteicon)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/ScreenshotDesktop.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/InternalDrivePCIe.icns

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/InternalDrive.icns

 

[Baunkjaer]

ps.: I made some Yosemite PCIe Drive icons I'd like to share. (Best installed via Liteicon)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/ScreenshotDesktop.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/InternalDrivePCIe.icns

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/InternalDrive.icns[/QUOTE]
Nice icons. Thnx.

 

[Oneballs]

Hi,
I'm having the same problem after migrating my boot drive to the 128 Apple blade on a Sintech adapter in slot 3 on a 5,1 Mac Pro. Happens after every cold boot.

Did you find a solution yet?

Could someone help to troubleshoot the issue?

Thanks!

ps.: I made some Yosemite PCIe Drive icons I'd like to share. (Best installed via Liteicon)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/ScreenshotDesktop.png

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/InternalDrivePCIe.icns

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2748412/InternalDrive.icns

I did not. Was hoping to use the drive as my startup disk so the cold boot issue was a deal breaker for me. Upon further research it just seems like these PCIe boot solutions are flakey at best. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

 

[SamPotts]

Both my Bplus (with Samsung XP941 256) and Sintech (Apple 1TB) adapters have been flawless which is more than I can say for the various raid/hba cards I've had over the years. There's literally no downside other than it takes up a slot, otherwise loads of positives over a regular SSD. Especially if you use an Apple SSD.

 

[Synchro3]

I recently received the Sintech adapter and a 256gb apple blade on a 4,1. Works as advertised at first, but I've noticed I "lose" the ability to boot into the PCIe ssd on cold boots after I have shutdown. Upon powering up, I get stuck on the gray screen until the comp finds my old boot drive minutes later. When I boot back in my original boot drive (Samsung 830), the apple blade shows back up as an available start disk and I can start the process over again.

Hi,
I'm having the same problem after migrating my boot drive to the 128 Apple blade on a Sintech adapter in slot 3 on a 5,1 Mac Pro. Happens after every cold boot.

Did you find a solution yet?

Could someone help to troubleshoot the issue?

Only a theory: This 'Cold boot' issue seems to happen only with smaller PCIE blades with 2 lanes active. Never encountered and never heard of this issue with bigger 1 TB PCIE blades with 4 lanes active.

Did you both try to put the blade in another PCI slot?

 

[128keaton]

I just did something similar with a LITE-ON 128GB SSD and this m.2 NGFF to SATA adaptor.

 

[Baunkjaer]

Installed a new 512GB XP941, with Lycom DT-120 today. No problems, and it works great.

Samsung 840 EVO on the left - XP941 on the right.

 

[handheldgames]

Only a theory: This 'Cold boot' issue seems to happen only with smaller PCIE blades with 2 lanes active. Never encountered and never heard of this issue with bigger 1 TB PCIE blades with 4 lanes active.

Did you both try to put the blade in another PCI slot?

I had a similar issue with the 1st install of the snitch adapter. Reseating the Apple Blade SSD resolved the issue. I have a couple 2 lane sticks and a pile of Sintech cards and will give ti a try over the weekend. Aside from the initial install hiccup, the sintech solution has been rock solid.

 

[crjackson2134]

** MID November 2014 Update **

Going into Mid-November and onto the holidays, Apple/Samsung SSD's continue to offer the best value for cMP upgrades to PCIe flash. Prices for the 1TB SSD hover between 500-600ish, and offer comparable performance to the $520 M.2/NGFF 512GB Samsung XP941.

Apple PCIe adapter $10 on ebay
The Snitech Apple PCIe SSD adapter is currently available on eBay for $10. While there is a newer revision with an unnecessary heat-synch, save your money and buy revision one.

I'm wanting to get the adapter (ahead of the Apple/Samsung Flash), but in the listed notes (#2) it says it's not bootable. So is the $10 eBay card bootable?

Also, is the heat sinked version of no benefit at all? It's now $29.

Thanks

 

[mikeboss]

the adapters don't do anything except converting the connectors. they have no logic on them. bootability depends on the SSD's onboard controller logic and firmware. of course the Apple branded SAMSUNG SSDs are bootable.

 

[crjackson2134]

the adapters don't do anything except converting the connectors. they have no logic on them. bootability depends on the SSD's onboard controller logic and firmware. of course the Apple branded SAMSUNG SSDs are bootable.

Thanks Mike, I thought this was the case but the note on the eBay listing gave me pause, so I thought it would be better to double check.

Does the model with the heat sink offer no benefit at all? Well I guess it's moot since I ordered th $10 model.