SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD

[whackit]

Okay, So here are my experiences with the Apple 1TB ssd (sintech adapter) and problems I was having with bootcamp. I finally figured it out.

cMP 4,1 With original configuration will boot into windows normally via bootcamp. Could not boot via a partition on SSD.

cMP 4,1 upgraded to 5,1 with an originally compatible 4,1 (verified with single 2.93 quad and and 2.26 dual) processor will boot into windows normally via bootcamp on sata. Could not boot via a partition on SSD.

cMP 4,1 upgraded to 5,1 with non original processor (tried on both dual x5690s and a quad w5690) will only boot into windows if SSD is installed in either slot 1 or 2 (16x) if SSD is in 3 or 4 windows will not boot. You will get a read error or endless cursor. Could not boot via a partition on SSD.

Odd that the processor makes the difference here. But that's what worked for me. Hope this saves someone else the drama.

 

[xelanaiznac]

I posted this before but as I covers some Q's I will repeat.

I have a flashed 4.1 to 5.1 with 2 apple 1TB PCIe SSD's and the sintech adapters in slots 3 & 4. As I am only ever using one at once no problems with the shared bus controller. Apart from the expense this seemed like the perfect set up for me. They both back themselves up to traditional HD's in the normal bays.

The one has my OS10.10 set up the other has a UEFI install of windows 8.1 for gaming and other bits and bobs that I can't do in OSX. The performance of each is near identical. The windows install was a royal pain in the ass but I should of expected that. The gaming performance is fantastic after a session playing Bioshock Infinite it was only afterwards I realised that I had not noticed any waiting for loading etc. It seemed like an unbroken experience

https://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=514482&d=1416261409

hi. can you explain me how to install windows 8.1 on apple ssd + sintech adapter?you write that it was a pain in the ass

 

[Synchro3]

cMP 4,1 upgraded to 5,1 with non original processor (tried on both dual x5690s and a quad w5690) will only boot into windows if SSD is installed in either slot 1 or 2 (16x), if SSD is in 3 or 4 windows will not boot. You will get a read error or endless cursor. Could not boot via a partition on SSD.

Odd that the processor makes the difference here. But that's what worked for me. Hope this saves someone else the drama.

Can confirm this; My BootCamp SSD (Windows 7) is in SATA slot 1, Mac Pro running Xeon W 3690. Estimated nine times out of ten booting in Windows works, the tenth time it hangs. However, no real issue for me.

 

[drac]

Windows 8.1 Install.

hi. can you explain me how to install windows 8.1 on apple ssd + sintech adapter?you write that it was a pain in the ass

It was a while ago now but here are the basics. It assumes you are only using the SSD for windows not for your Mac OSX also. I also used 2 USB drives to keep it simple.

1 Download a windows 8.1 iso file and the bootcamp drivers (Save the bootcamp drivers onto a separate USB drive for later.)
2 I used 'Rufus' to create a bootable USB stick. There are probably alternatives but this is what I used. It has to be 8gb and the exact format is very important. (FAT32 & GPT partition) Otherwise it will not be UEFI.
3 Check it has worked by Option boot and there should be a 'EFI-boot USB'. DO NOT select it yet, shut down instead. (If there's no EFI boot, its not right, probably USB drive not formatted correctly).
4 Remove all other drives from the computer apart from the Apple SSD/sintech and the USB. (Windows registry can mess up other drives during installation.)
4 Option boot, select EFI-boot USB.
5 Delete all of the partitions from the SSD and chose the free space as the target for your new install. (The installer will automatically create new partitions.)
6 Follow the instructions for Win 8.1 install.
7 Install updates and bootcamp drivers. Not sure what the best way to do this is. I installed bootcamp drivers first then updated and this resulted in the BSOD. Lots of messing about to go back and stop it automatically reinstalling the divers. If I did it again I would do the updates first then install the drivers. This takes ages. There is no combined update so its multiple downloads and restarts.
8 Install your software and do a couple of restarts to check.
9 reinstall all of your original drives.

Job done. (Should only take about 1 hour but will probably take 10 ;-) )

My Sintech/apple SSD's are in PCIe slots 3 & 4 not sure which way around.

 

[Pressure]

Finally found a cheap PCIe SSD (MZ-JPU256T/0A6) inside Europe, now the waiting time for the PCIe adapter to arrive from China ... but hey, it was £9 with free shipping.

It will be replacing my more than aging Intel X-25M 80GB (1st gen.), so I am looking forward to TRIM support!

I know, I know, just in time for the Samsung SM951 to arrive ...

 

[xelanaiznac]

Is there a way to install Windows and macos in the same ssd pci express?

 

[drac]

Is there a way to install Windows and macos in the same ssd pci express?

I believe, although I have not tried. That you could do a native UEFI install of windows 8.1 and then partition of an area of that drive through windows and then do a OSX install onto that partition. However I have not tried this so cannot guarantee this would work.

I kept mine separate to avoid issues with updates or installing Windows 10 in the future.

 

[ThomasB]

768 GB PCIe SSD???

I came across this listing for an Apple 768 GB PCIe SSD.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Samsu...?pt=US_Solid_State_Drives&hash=item1c4dca55e4

To my knowledge Apple only offered 768 GB drives in late 2012 and early 2013 models. This is clearly for a late 2013 and 2014 model given the pin layout. The seller is based in Cupertino and says the item is brand new. Am I missing something here?

 

[Pressure]

Yeah that does seem strange although going by the text it clearly says MZ-KPU1T0T/0A6, which is a 1TB PCIe solution.

 

[scottsjack]

Can confirm this; My BootCamp SSD (Windows 7) is in SATA slot 1, Mac Pro running Xeon W 3690. Estimated nine times out of ten booting in Windows works, the tenth time it hangs. However, no real issue for me.

I am used to the hanging issue. W8.1 on a dedicated Crucial M500 SSD mounted on a Velo Duo x2 card in slot 3 hangs maybe one out of five or six times. Before the Velo Duo card I had Windows booting from a WD Caviar Black HDD in bay 1. The same occasional hang when booting also occurred there.

My previous 2010 Mac Pro booting W8 via a HDD also would hang from time to time. On either machine I just hold the on-off button to shut down and then fire it up again. It seems to boot Windows more reliably if I give it a couple of seconds after moving the boot choice to Windows and then hit the return key twice in a row. No scientific tests done, just seems that way.

 

[mikeboss]

I suspect that the BIOS emulation of the Mac Pro's EFI doesn't like having too many S-ATA ports (emulated or real ones). everything was running just fine (SAMSUNG XP941 PCIe SSD with OS X, SSDs in the S-ATA slots of the Mac Pro) until I got the new CalDigit FASTA-6GU3 Pro. MS-Windows 7 on an SSD in bay1 wouldn't boot reliable anymore. replaced the CalDigit with the INATECK KT4004 again and everything's working as it should...

 

[MacVidCards]

Yeah that does seem strange although going by the text it clearly says MZ-KPU1T0T/0A6, which is a 1TB PCIe solution.

If you look at pix in ad they clearly show part number has "768" in it

 

[Pressure]

If you look at pix in ad they clearly show part number has "768" in it

Indeed but I also noticed that it said MZ-KPU1T0T/0A6 in the listing.

 

[MacVidCards]

Picture and title both say 768, I would say the part number is wrong

 

[xelanaiznac]

I believe, although I have not tried. That you could do a native UEFI install of windows 8.1 and then partition of an area of that drive through windows and then do a OSX install onto that partition. However I have not tried this so cannot guarantee this would work.

I kept mine separate to avoid issues with updates or installing Windows 10 in the future.

it doesn't work... any other ideas?

 

[jmfangio]

New revision of the "faster" 1tb blade?

I've continued to monitor Ebay for the "faster" MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 - 655-1860A.
I snagged what seems to be a new revision of that blade this morning with the model/part#'s of MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2 - 655-1860B from a seller in CA.

Physically, it looks just like the MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 which of course, is slightly different than all of the other variations. Can't believe no one else bid on it. Anyway, I'll post speed numbers once I get it.

 

[Pressure]

I've continued to monitor Ebay for the "faster" MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 - 655-1860A.
I snagged what seems to be a new revision of that blade this morning with the model/part#'s of MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2 - 655-1860B from a seller in CA.
Image
Physically, it looks just like the MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 which of course, is slightly different than all of the other variations. Can't believe no one else bid on it. Anyway, I'll post speed numbers once I get it.

If we could get a picture of the other side with the controller, we could find out quickly

Can't believe how small these modules are compared to 2.5" and 3.5" drives, fully understandable why Apple ditched those formats for a custom design (before SATA Express came around).

 

[Pressure]

Picture and title both say 768, I would say the part number is wrong

It's up again on eBay.

If you want to investigate

 

[crjackson2134]

It's up again on eBay.

If you want to investigate

I've already contacted the seller. The correct part# should be updated shortly.

 

[handheldgames]

I've continued to monitor Ebay for the "faster" MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 - 655-1860A.
I snagged what seems to be a new revision of that blade this morning with the model/part#'s of MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2 - 655-1860B from a seller in CA.
Image
Physically, it looks just like the MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 which of course, is slightly different than all of the other variations. Can't believe no one else bid on it. Anyway, I'll post speed numbers once I get it.

Congrats! Loog forward to the update.

 

[jmfangio]

Follow Up: New revision of the "faster" 1tb blade?

Surprising results. This revision is slower than ALL of the other revisions.

Here is the backside of the blade btw:

Ebay seller is being cool and accepting it as a return.

 

[Keter]

Just returned from LA. I installed a 1TB Apple PCI-e SSD.

MZ-KPU1TOT/0A6

Here is the part:

Details:

and the results:

 

[Pressure]

Surprising results. This revision is slower than ALL of the other revisions.
Image

Here is the backside of the blade btw:
Image

Ebay seller is being cool and accepting it as a return.

The scores seem to indicate PCIe x2.

What does it say in System Profiler?

 

[jmfangio]

The scores seem to indicate PCIe x2.

What does it say in System Profiler?

Thanks for asking. It's funny, I was just looking into it further. This "new revision" showed up as a x4 link width but only 2.5 GT/s as the link speed. The other revision I have indicates link speed at 5.0 GT/s.

Also, under storage, the newer revision has its protocol indicated as: SATA while the older one is: PCI

The were both tested mounted onto the same Sintech board, in the same slot (2) and from the same SATA boot drive in the bay running 10.8.5. I did smc and pram resets between tests.

Anyone have any ideas about these discrepancies?

I haven't returned it yet...

These are from the system profiler of the newer revision:

 

[Synchro3]

Thanks for asking. It's funny, I was just looking into it further. This "new revision" showed up as a x4 link width but only 2.5 GT/s as the link speed. The other revision I have indicates link speed at 5.0 GT/s.

Also, under storage, the newer revision has its protocol indicated as: SATA while the older one is: PCI

The were both tested mounted onto the same Sintech board, in the same slot (2) and from the same SATA boot drive in the bay running 10.8.5. I did smc and pram resets between tests.

Anyone have any ideas about these discrepancies?

I haven't returned it yet...

This is interesting. Thanks for info.

The controller chip on the new MZ-KPV1T0R/0A2 has the number S4LN058A01-8030, which is the same as on the Samsung SM951. http://linustechtips.com/main/topic...se-tested-the-achi-ver-of-samsungs-sm951-ssd/

The controller chip on the older MZ-KPV1T00/0A2 has the number S4LN058X01-8030, which is the same as on the Samsung SM953. http://erosionally5.rssing.com/browser.php?indx=4066690&item=8393

However, also the SM951 should be able to achieve a link speed with 5 GT/S. Apple restrictions?