Yes, it should. (assume you have the right adaptor and put them in the right slot)
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
SATA Express meets the '09 Mac Pro - Bootable NGFF PCIE SSD
- Thread starter handheldgames
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Yes, it should. (assume you have the right adaptor and put them in the right slot)
Ok. Thank you. I am using two SM951 AHCI 512GB SSDs. Each mounted on a Delock M.2 PCIe card. http://www.delock.de/produkte/G_89370/merkmale.html
I put one card in Slot 4 and the other card in Slot 3. After making a Raid 0 with Apples Disk Utility there is no increase in read/write speed. Single SSD r/w is about 1400 MB/s. Two SSDs as Raid 0 r/w is about 1400 MB/s also. (Blackmagic Speedtest)
Do you have any suggestions?
That's exactly why I said if you install them in the correct slot. You may try slot 2 and 3 (slot 3 and 4 share the same 4 PCIe lane).
Read/write speed for a single SM951 in slot 2 is about half the speed of slot 3 or 4 (around 730 MB/s). Raid 0 with one SSD in slot 3 and a second card in slot 2 is about 1400 MB/s r/w. It makes no difference in speed compared to cards in slot 3 und 2. Any Ideas?
So, this adaptor cannot run at PCIe 2.0 speed in slot 2. And I don't think you have any options other than buying an adaptor that can work in a x16 slot properly.
It's impossible to get anything > 1500MB/s in slot 3 and 4 because there are only 4 lanes in total.
Not very sure if the Angelbird Wing PX1 can do it. I only sure the Amfeltec Squid PCI Express Carrier board can negotiate at PCIe 2.0 x16 on the cMP, but that quite expensive.
Thanks h9826790, Quotation from Amfeltec : For old Mac Pro users we recommend to use Gen2 version of the Carrier board SKU-086-01, $ 367.38 USD , Quotation doesn't include shipping charges. PayPal, Credit Card (PayPal processing fee apply).
BF test: Samsung XP941s in the Mac Pro tower PCIe slots, DT-120 and Angelbird PX1 for the testing.
BF test: Samsung XP941s in the Mac Pro tower PCIe slots, DT-120 and Angelbird PX1 for the testing.
Last edited:
As I said, that's expensive. Anyway, you may ask flowrider if the Angelbird PX1 can negotiate at the correct speed in slot 1 or 2. He owned this card before, hopefully he still remember the result and can give you some help.
XP941*2 slots 2+3 = An XP941 blade on two separate Bplus PCie x4 adapters in a RAID 0 set and install in slots 2 and 3 of a 2010 Mac Pro tower. Bplus M2P4A PCie x4 adapter support PCIe X4, X8 X16 slot and compatible with Samsung SM951 256GB/512GB.
Last edited:
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
I wish that works for you, but they also state "We tested with both the Bplus and Lycom M.2 (NGFF) -> PCIe Adapters. There was no difference in the transfer speeds." And the Lycom adaptor is known to suffer from that neogotiate speed problem. You better study a bit more or buy from a store that has return policy. I am not sure if XP941 and SM951 make any difference in this case.
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
Any PCIe to NGFF/M2 adapter, whether it's lycom, bplus, etc has identical performance across any PCIe slot in the cMP. The SSD silicon is the issue, especially when it comes to Samsung PCIe SSD's
The first generation samsung XP941 and the 2nd Generation Samsung silicon found in 512GB and 1TB SSUAX apple SSD's, run at x4/5.0gts across all of the 4,1-5,1's PCIe slots. 3rd generation and beyond Samsung SM951 achi and Apple Samsung SSUBX ssd's have direct negotiation problem with the cMP's PCIe x16 lanes, running at a crippled x4/2.5gts speed. Slot's 3&4 on the '09-12 cMP share an x4 PCIe lane, and are not subject to the slowdown. Although, the combined throughput of slots 3/4 is <1500mb/sec.
PCIe bridge adapters, such as the Amfeltec Squid M2, (PCIe 2,x version) and the upcoming adapter from Lycom that they said they would never build, overcome the cMP's negotiation problem and provide multiple x4 PCIe channels that the cMP can leverage for > 3500 MB/s.
The first generation samsung XP941 and the 2nd Generation Samsung silicon found in 512GB and 1TB SSUAX apple SSD's, run at x4/5.0gts across all of the 4,1-5,1's PCIe slots. 3rd generation and beyond Samsung SM951 achi and Apple Samsung SSUBX ssd's have direct negotiation problem with the cMP's PCIe x16 lanes, running at a crippled x4/2.5gts speed. Slot's 3&4 on the '09-12 cMP share an x4 PCIe lane, and are not subject to the slowdown. Although, the combined throughput of slots 3/4 is <1500mb/sec.
PCIe bridge adapters, such as the Amfeltec Squid M2, (PCIe 2,x version) and the upcoming adapter from Lycom that they said they would never build, overcome the cMP's negotiation problem and provide multiple x4 PCIe channels that the cMP can leverage for > 3500 MB/s.
It looks like Asus is also working on a Quad M.2 to 16x PCIe adapter solution.
I can't find any reference to it outside of CES videos, but the heatsinks and fans look nice. They're trying to sell it with some x299 chipset features, but hopefully it should work with the cMP.
I can't find any reference to it outside of CES videos, but the heatsinks and fans look nice. They're trying to sell it with some x299 chipset features, but hopefully it should work with the cMP.
In a moment of supreme stupidity I bought a 250Gb . ..
====================================================
( EDIT : - See my later post below - Wasn't such a stupid decision after all. h926790 kindly pointed out that it is actually an SSD drive designed to be mounted on an M.2 card which has a SATA data socket. After fiddling with a cable I now have it connected to the cMP rear SATA DATA motherboard port - I am using the SATA power from the same positiion to power a USB 3.0 & a USB 3.1 card.)
====================================================
. . . ADATA Premier Pro SP900 M.2 SATA SSD ( ASP900NS38-258GM-C ) . . I pressured the shop salesman to search the net for "AHCI" for this model . .and . . he came up with a single webpage that seemed to corroborate.
( NOTE : The box below shows a 128Gb model - should have been the 256Gb model )
Silly me. . the price for this 250Gb was ¥6,900 ( US$63 ) before sales tax as opposed to a Samsung 128Gb XP941 for exactly the same price at the shop across the street.
Bought two M.2 NGFF M.2 SSD adaptors for ¥1,800 & ¥1,500 respectively.
Got everything home, set up the SP900 on the single blade adaptor and booted into Mavericks 10.9.5 .. . nothing !
Tried Yosemite & Sierra 10.12.6 .. nothing ! Nothing showing in Sys Info / PCI.
( No show also on the two blade adaptor. )
Next I searched ( very intensively ) for any reference to "AHCI" for this blade. . nothing . .I did see "AHCI" listed for this card on ONE Swedish webpage but nowhere else . .in fact neither could I find any NVMe reference either. That is just too strange - nothing at all on the ADATA page regarding AHCI / NMVe for this product except that it has a Sandforce LSI SF-2281 controller.
However, just today I discovered that both the Samsung SM951 & the XP941 both have single "M" edge connectors.
The ADATA SP900 has two; "M" "B" edge connectors.
NOTE : The Plextor M6e M.2 blade has "M" & "B" but is AHCI and I have seen webpages where people have apparently had success in cMP's with the M6e Plextor though it might be slower than the AHCI Samsungs.
==========================================
If it is indeed NVMe I'll sell it as I would rather buy Samsung AHCI's.
All advice gratefully accepted.
====================================================
( EDIT : - See my later post below - Wasn't such a stupid decision after all. h926790 kindly pointed out that it is actually an SSD drive designed to be mounted on an M.2 card which has a SATA data socket. After fiddling with a cable I now have it connected to the cMP rear SATA DATA motherboard port - I am using the SATA power from the same positiion to power a USB 3.0 & a USB 3.1 card.)
====================================================
. . . ADATA Premier Pro SP900 M.2 SATA SSD ( ASP900NS38-258GM-C ) . . I pressured the shop salesman to search the net for "AHCI" for this model . .and . . he came up with a single webpage that seemed to corroborate.
( NOTE : The box below shows a 128Gb model - should have been the 256Gb model )
Silly me. . the price for this 250Gb was ¥6,900 ( US$63 ) before sales tax as opposed to a Samsung 128Gb XP941 for exactly the same price at the shop across the street.
Bought two M.2 NGFF M.2 SSD adaptors for ¥1,800 & ¥1,500 respectively.
Got everything home, set up the SP900 on the single blade adaptor and booted into Mavericks 10.9.5 .. . nothing !
Tried Yosemite & Sierra 10.12.6 .. nothing ! Nothing showing in Sys Info / PCI.
( No show also on the two blade adaptor. )
Next I searched ( very intensively ) for any reference to "AHCI" for this blade. . nothing . .I did see "AHCI" listed for this card on ONE Swedish webpage but nowhere else . .in fact neither could I find any NVMe reference either. That is just too strange - nothing at all on the ADATA page regarding AHCI / NMVe for this product except that it has a Sandforce LSI SF-2281 controller.
However, just today I discovered that both the Samsung SM951 & the XP941 both have single "M" edge connectors.
The ADATA SP900 has two; "M" "B" edge connectors.
NOTE : The Plextor M6e M.2 blade has "M" & "B" but is AHCI and I have seen webpages where people have apparently had success in cMP's with the M6e Plextor though it might be slower than the AHCI Samsungs.
==========================================
If it is indeed NVMe I'll sell it as I would rather buy Samsung AHCI's.
All advice gratefully accepted.
Last edited:
The answer is actually on the box (you first pic), it is a SATA SSD, NOT a PCIe SSD.
m.2 is just a form factor, not the type of the SSD. Just like square or circle. It's how it looks, NOT what it is.
CPU is square in shape, it doesn't mean that everything in square is a CPU.
PCIe SSD is in m.2 form factor, it doesn't mean that everything in m.2 is PCIe. SSD.
SATA SSD can be in 2.5" form factor, or m.2.
You adaptor is for PCIe SSD (no controller onboard), cannot be used with SATA SSD regardless the form factor.
N.B. This answer will be removed at 23:59 on 26 Aug 2017 (UTC +8) unless you tell me how to find the key resistor on my R9 380
(pure kidding, but I couldn't resist )
Last edited:
h9826790 Thanks for your insightful ( as usual ) reply.
Suddenly everything is crystal clear ! I am just now learning about M.2 .. we learn something everyday. Another piece in the jigsaw.
So If I attach a SATA cable to the black NGFF M.2 adaptor's SATA port ( pictured above ) and run that to my cMP SATA data input port. . it will show up and can be formatted as a drive ? The big question is whether it can be a BOOT drive?
That would ease my frustration somewhat. I'll give it a shot tomorrow.
In theory it SHOULD be able to boot .. . I'll have to modify a cable.
I'll post my results.
Thanks again.
Suddenly everything is crystal clear ! I am just now learning about M.2 .. we learn something everyday. Another piece in the jigsaw.
So If I attach a SATA cable to the black NGFF M.2 adaptor's SATA port ( pictured above ) and run that to my cMP SATA data input port. . it will show up and can be formatted as a drive ? The big question is whether it can be a BOOT drive?
That would ease my frustration somewhat. I'll give it a shot tomorrow.
In theory it SHOULD be able to boot .. . I'll have to modify a cable.
I'll post my results.
Thanks again.
Last edited:
I never use this kind of adaptor or install any SSD in this way. But I also believe that adaptor's SATA data port should able to connect the m.2 SATA SSD to the native SATA port inside the cMP. However, it's pretty much defeat the point of using m.2 SSD (to remove the speed limit of the standard SATA port)
And please report your result here. Even though I have no plan to use this kind of setup, I also want to know if it works (Including bootability etc). I am also learning everyday. Million thanks in advance!
h9826970 SUCCESS !
I'll post benchmark pics in a few minutes & a report.
Thank for making me realise that SSD HDD's could be mounted another way.
More soon.
I'm an Aussie marooned in Japan.
[doublepost=1503766176][/doublepost]ADATA Premier Pro SP900 M.2 SATA SSD ( ASP900NS38-258GM-C )
First .. the cable is a real bitch. . it needs a special MALE SATA cable ( the type where the contacts are visible )at the cMP motherboard HDD SATA data input. Then it needs a standard FEMALE SATA at the M.2 PCIe SATA slot.
Luckily I had just ONE cable moulded for SATA power & SATA DATA as one cable . . I have a jewellers saw so I separated the DATA cable and even then I had to " whittle down " the socket edge with a raised point to get it to "snap" into place into the cMP HDD SATA input.
Something like this ( I could not find a single appropriate SATA DATA cable in my quick search )
This is the actual cable I used, ( sorry about the focus - the cable is in use now ).
I had to start uo Windows 7 before it would be recognised. Then I formatted it in SImple Volume EXFat just in case it wouldn't be recognised in Mavericks.
The ADATA Toolbox found it OK and declared it healthy.
Here it is in my 4,1 to 5,1 cMP looks a bit cramped but as you can see quite cool temperature.
After re-booting into Mavericks 10.9.5 I formatted it to GUID / Mac Journaled
Bearing in mind that the SATA cable connects to the cMP SATA II so I only expected SATA II speeds in benchmarks.
Still it is cooler, smaller and faster than spinning HDDs .. and .. I can mount another one beside it on the M.2 card.
Thanks again to h9826970 for educating me re M.2 . . I was a complete newbie until tonight.
==================================
TROUBLE SHOOTING NOTE :
When I first connected the ADATA blade to the AINEX 2 blade SATA SSD M.2 adaptor I booted into Mavericks but the blade was not seen in either position on the adaptor with the SATA cable connected.
Next I shut down and installed my Win 8.1 HDD and did an EFI boot - this Win 8.1 is GPT ( GUID ) formatted and would not boot . . shut down twice with BSOD screens.
So . . I shut down and removed ALL drives ( except the ADATA ) and booted into a Win 7 HDD which is formatted as MBR .. . this time it booted and Win 7 found the ADATA drive very quickly and asked me to initialse it. NOTE : Using the OPTION key EFI bootup into WIn 8.1 an EFI drive was displayed and I suspect it objected to the fact that the ADATA was NOT formatted or was formatted i some weird way. In any case the morale of the story is that these blades need to be formatted in Win 7 either as ExFat ( or GPT - GUID ) before they can be seen by
OS X.
These ADATA blades work at cMP SATA II bottleneck speeds - around 240mb/s .. but .. with my current AINEX AIF-06 dual blade adaptor ( US$13 ) I can make a nice, bigger cooler space where my hot spinner HD's usually sit.
Perhaps they might even work in late model MacBooks/Pros ? ( I only have a 2009 MacBook to play wth).
More speed than spinners + cooler + less cramped air space for my HD 7950 !
Not too bad at all for a US$63 250Gb SSD and it can live in my cMP until I get my hands on an SM951.
==================================
EDIT : Installed Snow Leopard as a test tonight. No problems at all and the install seemed a lot quicker.
I'll post benchmark pics in a few minutes & a report.
Thank for making me realise that SSD HDD's could be mounted another way.
More soon.
I'm an Aussie marooned in Japan.
[doublepost=1503766176][/doublepost]ADATA Premier Pro SP900 M.2 SATA SSD ( ASP900NS38-258GM-C )
First .. the cable is a real bitch. . it needs a special MALE SATA cable ( the type where the contacts are visible )at the cMP motherboard HDD SATA data input. Then it needs a standard FEMALE SATA at the M.2 PCIe SATA slot.
Luckily I had just ONE cable moulded for SATA power & SATA DATA as one cable . . I have a jewellers saw so I separated the DATA cable and even then I had to " whittle down " the socket edge with a raised point to get it to "snap" into place into the cMP HDD SATA input.
Something like this ( I could not find a single appropriate SATA DATA cable in my quick search )
This is the actual cable I used, ( sorry about the focus - the cable is in use now ).
I had to start uo Windows 7 before it would be recognised. Then I formatted it in SImple Volume EXFat just in case it wouldn't be recognised in Mavericks.
The ADATA Toolbox found it OK and declared it healthy.
Here it is in my 4,1 to 5,1 cMP looks a bit cramped but as you can see quite cool temperature.
After re-booting into Mavericks 10.9.5 I formatted it to GUID / Mac Journaled
Bearing in mind that the SATA cable connects to the cMP SATA II so I only expected SATA II speeds in benchmarks.
Still it is cooler, smaller and faster than spinning HDDs .. and .. I can mount another one beside it on the M.2 card.
Thanks again to h9826970 for educating me re M.2 . . I was a complete newbie until tonight.
==================================
TROUBLE SHOOTING NOTE :
When I first connected the ADATA blade to the AINEX 2 blade SATA SSD M.2 adaptor I booted into Mavericks but the blade was not seen in either position on the adaptor with the SATA cable connected.
Next I shut down and installed my Win 8.1 HDD and did an EFI boot - this Win 8.1 is GPT ( GUID ) formatted and would not boot . . shut down twice with BSOD screens.
So . . I shut down and removed ALL drives ( except the ADATA ) and booted into a Win 7 HDD which is formatted as MBR .. . this time it booted and Win 7 found the ADATA drive very quickly and asked me to initialse it. NOTE : Using the OPTION key EFI bootup into WIn 8.1 an EFI drive was displayed and I suspect it objected to the fact that the ADATA was NOT formatted or was formatted i some weird way. In any case the morale of the story is that these blades need to be formatted in Win 7 either as ExFat ( or GPT - GUID ) before they can be seen by
OS X.
These ADATA blades work at cMP SATA II bottleneck speeds - around 240mb/s .. but .. with my current AINEX AIF-06 dual blade adaptor ( US$13 ) I can make a nice, bigger cooler space where my hot spinner HD's usually sit.
Perhaps they might even work in late model MacBooks/Pros ? ( I only have a 2009 MacBook to play wth).
More speed than spinners + cooler + less cramped air space for my HD 7950 !
Not too bad at all for a US$63 250Gb SSD and it can live in my cMP until I get my hands on an SM951.
==================================
EDIT : Installed Snow Leopard as a test tonight. No problems at all and the install seemed a lot quicker.
Last edited:
Thanks for the detail report. That's more complicated than I expect. Happy to see that you can sort it out quickly.
Anyway, if only want to utilise the native SATA port with SSD to keep it cool etc. I use this method (extract the core part from the standard 2.5" SATA SSD and plug that into the slot directly. No cable, no adaptor, nothing. So, less potential trouble. However, unless the 2.5" case design is stupidly easy to open and no seal sticker, the warranty may be voided straight away).
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...d-advice-before-buying.2063291/#post-24928516
Anyway, I suspect your cable can actually plug into the cMP's SATA port without any mod. I know that you only need the data part, but I think it's OK to leave the power part at there but just doing nothing. With the latch on both side, it can also make the cable more secure to stay there.
I googled a bit, and I expect something like this can fit the job.
Plug the whole male part into the SATA port. And then plug the data part into the card. Leave the remaining connector untouched.
Really not sure why it need Windows 7 to initialise the SSD. I bet it's more to do with Legacy vs EFI, rather than Win 7 vs Win 8. But sounds very strange that OSX doesn't see the SSD at all (until it's initialised).
Looks like there's a new kid on the block in the market of Quad SSD -> 16x PCIe adapters. The Aplicata Quad M.2 active 8x adapter came out a while back, but the 16x 'passive' (bifurcation required) adapter came out 4 days ago. Looks like it's retailing for 400$ with some nice heatsinks on it.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/aplicata-m.2-nvme-ssd-adapter,5201.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/aplicata-m.2-nvme-ssd-adapter,5201.html
Finally!! I'm happy to see the Lycom Engineers were able to come up with a Cost Effective approach to a Multi-PCIE SSD expansion card to take on Amfeltec's Squid M2. Take a jump over to the the SSD Review for a first look at Lycom's upcoming 4x M.2 PCIe SSD Adapter.
Multi ssd Benchmarks, like those above, should become much more common in the coming months.
Amazon still has stock on 256GB SM951's @ $119ea. A great price...
Do we have any reason to believe this will work & be bootable with the Classic Mac Pro?
As an Amazon Associate, MacRumors earns a commission from qualifying purchases made through links in this post.
No chip visible, single mainboard from ASUS used for testing (known to support bifurcation, especially in TR4/AM4)... sounds not too good.
Price, if right, would speak for a PLX chip though, else the official ASUS bifurcation blade does exactly the same for far less.
Price, if right, would speak for a PLX chip though, else the official ASUS bifurcation blade does exactly the same for far less.
