SCARY and SERIOUS Question: Does macOS Big Sur Report Data Back To Apple?

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

Hey guys,

Sorry to be creating a thread about this, but this scary question has been on my mind almost constantly since I started reading about macOS Big Sur... 😢 😢 😢

I was literally about to sort out my finances and buy a new M1 Mac Mini 2020 until I read this article: https://apple.slashdot.org/story/20/11/13/1726224/your-computer-isnt-yours

Security and user privacy are essentially the only two things I'm worried about. Performance isn't an issue because my old Mac Mini mid2011 has more than enough performance for my needs.

Thank you for any advice!

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

I always believed Apple took user privacy seriously and was the most trustworthy big tech company. For example, I always thought Apple was much, much more trustworthy than Microsoft and this is why I'm happy to pay the extra premium for Apple products, but now I'm not sure what to think... 😢

 

[Ritsuka]

macOS checks if the certificate that was used to sign the app you launches is valid to prevent it from launching if the certificate was revoked (because of it being used to sign malware or similar things). That's it.

Could the check be improved? Sure. It shouldn't slow down macOS if the server takes too much time to respond.

 

[Unsupported]

I was literally about to sort out my finances and buy a new M1 Mac Mini 2020 until I read this article: https://apple.slashdot.org/story/20/11/13/1726224/your-computer-isnt-yours

The version of macOS that was released today, 11.0, also known as Big Sur, has new APIs that prevent Little Snitch from working the same way. The new APIs don't permit Little Snitch to inspect or block any OS level processes. Additionally, the new rules in macOS 11 even hobble VPNs so that Apple apps will simply bypass them.

I don't use Little Snitch or a VPN. Hopefully somebody who does can confirm or deny?

 

[Unsupported]

There was a post and discussion on this last month:

Apple is hiding server connections from firewalls and VPNs in Big Sur

Since this is a Big Sur topic it should be mentioned here. Apple has made strange choice in macOS 11 that pose risks to both security and privacy - and protecting yourself is not easy. Programs like Little Snitch and Tripmode must now use what Apple calls the Network Extension API, a...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

macOS checks if the certificate that was used to sign the app you launches is valid to prevent it from launching if the certificate was revoked (because of it being used to sign malware or similar things). That's it.

Could the check be improved? Sure. It shouldn't slow down macOS if the server takes too much time to respond.

Thank you for your reply Ritsuka!

I'm not worried about my Mac running slow, but I'm VERY worried about me losing my privacy.

It just sounds like Apple is logging everything that a user running macOS Big Sur does on their Mac including things that aren't even related to iCloud like "TextEdit"... 😧😵☹️

 

[timidpimpin]

Thank you for your reply Ritsuka!

I'm not worried about my Mac running slow, but I'm VERY worried about me losing my privacy.

It just sounds like Apple is logging everything that a user running macOS Big Sur does on their Mac including things that aren't even related to iCloud like "TextEdit"... 😧😵☹️

You don't seem to understand the concept of empowering yourself through knowledge. You read about it somewhere and now you're suddenly all worried about it. Well... you didn't even know there was a concern until someone else told you.

You cannot live life in a manner where you stay oblivious and wilfully ignorant to things, and constantly make these ridiculous paranoid threads where you can never ever articulate a specific concern.

I think you need a tinfoil hat.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

More sources, please.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Also, haven’t these logs always existed? The post doesn’t seem to specify this is specific to Big Sur. I imagine the exact same things happened on your 2011 High Sierra Mac mini. If anything, there’s an argument that Apple Silicon is far more secure than anything Intel. Stop apologizing for making posts, too.

 

[Ritsuka]

Thank you for your reply Ritsuka!

I'm not worried about my Mac running slow, but I'm VERY worried about me losing my privacy.

It just sounds like Apple is logging everything that a user running macOS Big Sur does on their Mac including things that aren't even related to iCloud like "TextEdit"... 😧😵☹️

No, they are not logging everything that the user run. They are checking if the certificates are valid. A single certificate can be used to sign multiple apps, and a single certificate is checked only after 12 hours from the last check. And Apple's own certificate are not checked obviously…

Apple could know that the computer at your IP address checked a specific certificate, and that's it.

TextEdit can save files to iCloud. If you don't want TextEdit to default to the iCloud folder disable it in the iCloud preferences. But this is this, and the certificate check is another thing.

 

[Graham Caracas]

Your privacy and security were compromised long ago. All financial, medical, and government records are stored in massive databases waiting to be hacked, so you don't even need a computer to be vulnerable. The fetal position would be the most comfortable for you, and stay away from the rooftops of tall buildings.

 

[mikzn]

I'm not worried about my Mac running slow, but I'm VERY worried about me losing my privacy.

I totally agree - thanks for your post

 

[timidpimpin]

Here's a good rule to live by in life... if something worries us, it's typically because we don't understand it and/or feel we can't control it. To control something you need to understand it, and take control of it through confidence and learned or natural ability. Whatever it takes to take control of yourself, your security, your sanity. Within the law and reason of course.

So I will plead with you one last time... if anything in life concerns you, then take control of it. Stop being a paranoid potential victim. You're not taking proper care of yourself, because you're not taking care of what naturally concerns you. WAKE UP!

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

You don't seem to understand the concept of empowering yourself through knowledge. You read about it somewhere and now you're suddenly all worried about it. Well... you didn't even know there was a concern until someone else told you.

You cannot live life in a manner where you stay oblivious and wilfully ignorant to things, and constantly make these ridiculous paranoid threads where you can never ever articulate a specific concern.

Thank you for your reply Timidpimpin!

The only reason I created a thread about this was because it's such a serious problem for me. 😢 😢 😢

I've been able to research minor issues myself using the official Apple documents at "https://support.apple.com/mac" and reading other websites. However, for this problem I needed to hear what the experts at MacRumors thought.

 

[fisherking]

everything you do is monitored. your posts on this forum, your visceral responses to posts on this forum. even my post is monitoring you. everything is as we suspect, not as it actually seems...

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

More sources, please.

This issue about user privacy on macOS Big Sur is really important to me because the only thing holding me back from buying a new Mac is this.

My big concern would be that macOS Big Sur is logging all of my keystrokes and sending that information back to Apple...😢😢😢

I'm very surprised to be reading that Apple is doing something like this as I always viewed Apple as being much more focused on user privacy than Microsoft/Google and this is why this privacy issue has really hurt me... 😢

Here are some links like you requested:

macOS Big Sur has its own telemetry privacy nightmare

Privacy advocates have been complaining for years about telemetry on Windows 10, forcing Microsoft to make a number of concessions to satisfy regulators. It turns out one of the alternatives, switching to Apple’s macOS, may simply be moving from the frying pan into the fire. A recent incident...

mspoweruser.com

macOS Big Sur telling Apple what app you've opened isn't a security or privacy issue | AppleInsider

Even before Apple confirmed that Gatekeeper "calling home" wasn't associated with user information on Sunday night, privacy concerns of bad actors theoretically monitoring app launches with that data are not an issue as one researcher has suggested. Here's why.

appleinsider.com

 

[fisherking]

if you really believe that apple is logging all your keystrokes... get 2 macs; keep one offline for sensitive work, and the other for lightweight browsing and inoffensive email.

meamwhile, millions of people are using their macs every day, for whatever they do... every day.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

This issue about user privacy on macOS Big Sur is really important to me because the only thing holding me back from buying a new Mac is this.

My big concern would be that macOS Big Sur is logging all of my keystrokes and sending that information back to Apple...😢😢😢

I'm very surprised to be reading that Apple is doing something like this as I always viewed Apple as being much more focused on user privacy than Microsoft/Google and this is why this privacy issue has really hurt me... 😢

Here are some links like you requested:

macOS Big Sur has its own telemetry privacy nightmare

Privacy advocates have been complaining for years about telemetry on Windows 10, forcing Microsoft to make a number of concessions to satisfy regulators. It turns out one of the alternatives, switching to Apple’s macOS, may simply be moving from the frying pan into the fire. A recent incident...

mspoweruser.com

macOS Big Sur telling Apple what app you've opened isn't a security or privacy issue | AppleInsider

Even before Apple confirmed that Gatekeeper "calling home" wasn't associated with user information on Sunday night, privacy concerns of bad actors theoretically monitoring app launches with that data are not an issue as one researcher has suggested. Here's why.

appleinsider.com

What are your thoughts on the Apple Insider article?

 

[Apple_Robert]

Thank you for your reply Ritsuka!

I'm not worried about my Mac running slow, but I'm VERY worried about me losing my privacy.

It just sounds like Apple is logging everything that a user running macOS Big Sur does on their Mac including things that aren't even related to iCloud like "TextEdit"... 😧😵☹️

As Ritsuka correctly stated, Apple is checking app certificates to make sure they are valid. Apple isn't spying on you, me, or anyone else.

The problem is Apple didn't handle this issue as well as they should have from a proactive public relations standpoint. And because of that, a lot of fear mongering and misinformation was put forth.

 

[Apple_Robert]

everything you do is monitored. your posts on this forum, your visceral responses to posts on this forum. even my post is monitoring you. everything is as we suspect, not as it actually seems...

This isn't the Matrix.

 

[fisherking]

This isn't the Matrix.

that's exactly what someone from the matrix would say...

 

[Apple_Robert]

that's exactly what someone from the matrix would say...

Touche'. Good retort.

 

[MBAir2010]

a while back when these celebrities photos were hacked through their iPhone, Apple or someone discovered thier passwords were easy to access like thier birthdate and pets name, and developed a 2-step certification to log into accounts and now we get warnings when we log into our accounts so this would not happen. i dont see any other big tech company perform those safety measures.
obviously, i will not store any unpublished cartoons i drew on iCloud but i feel safer using Apple than Microsoft which is all i use.
i dont think Apple would care that i'm typing currently on a Dell XSP typing now unless they need to know why. I think the macrumors powers that be might have more info on me than apple does, but that is risk or something i can live with.

 

[satcomer]

If you guys so serious about Apple spying on you then install the reverse firewall shareware Little Snitch! I use it and you’ll be surprised how many cookies follow you over the Internet besides checking for updates!

 

[BeautifulWoman_1984]

Thank you for your replies!

I'm really surprised that more Mac users aren't concerned about this???

If you guys so serious about Apple spying on you then install the reverse firewall shareware Little Snitch! I use it and you’ll be surprised how many cookies follow you over the Internet besides checking for updates!

Thank you for your reply SatComer and I've got Little Snitch, but "Little Snitch" isn't able to work now...

Little Snitch/VPN Unable to do their jobs:

"Now, it’s been possible up until today to block this sort of stuff on your Mac using a program called Little Snitch (really, the only thing keeping me using macOS at this point). In the default configuration, it blanket allows all of this computer-to-Apple communication, but you can disable those default rules and go on to approve or deny each of these connections, and your computer will continue to work fine without snitching on you to Apple.

The version of macOS that was released today, 11.0, also known as Big Sur, has new APIs that prevent Little Snitch from working the same way. The new APIs don’t permit Little Snitch to inspect or block any OS level processes. Additionally, the new rules in macOS 11 even hobble VPNs so that Apple apps will simply bypass them."

URL: https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/