Scott Forstall Reportedly Forced Out of Apple

[Ramchi]

Chameleons everywhere!

Until Yesterday, iOS was the greatest thing in the earth (even people defended the map fiasco for which Scott was directly responsible) now after the announcement, iOS becomes useless, boring etc...

Though he should be held responsible for Maps, let us not forget his contribution to iOS ecosystem without which iPhone or iPad is nothing.

Even in the case of Map there is a business decision over technology resulted in such a mess. It was working fine until iOS 5, so Scott himself alone cannot be held responsible. Tim Cook is right in signing the apology.

Looks like someone feared of Scott and usurped him - since he is perceived as potential leader with his assertive approach. No one would like a smart person competing with them!

 

[0488568]

So, let me see if I understand these guys are getting canned for the maps deal? How about all the other great stuff they did?

 

[gto55]

The head of iOS has recently stated that there is no more "decision maker" in Apple since Jobs is no longer there. He woud have also writtne an email to some members of the iOS teamin which he considers that his group did not work enough on big ideas in direct relation with mobiles. An admission of failure in some way to an operating system that goes past few years is gaining functionality while passing beside the point ?

Some people see in this is the total lack of leadership of Tim Cook .. Unable to weld his team.
Steve Jobs did more than 10 years with the team and Tim Cook in less than a year has managed to crack ...
For some, this is Tim Cook Apple's problem, because yes apple has a problem, it loses its image of an innovator firm replaced by a Financial Holding.

Tim Cook and his friends will spend more time to stay in power instead of moving Apple forward.
The real punishment may come from the competition and consumers disinterest.

Forstall has not only been on iOS projects but since the beginning of OSX he was one of the first system architects and a part of what apple is today, so he may go elsewhere, and imitate Rubin to fight apple.
He's replaced by the guy who made OS Lion and Mountain Lion, and many people complained and still complain about it.
Look at what happened with Steve Jobs and the creation of Next .... Will history repeats itself ?
20 years ago apple had to fight Microsoft, today you have to add Google, Samsung etc...

 

[Tar Sniffer]

It hasn't changed because their team is absolutely terrible, and it was led by Forstall. They had next to no ideas, and all of the ideas they had were just bad. I can't believe how terrible iOS 6 is. The colored menu bars are awful, and the lack of color they inscribed in apps like Music is dumbfounding. I can't wait for Ive's iOS look.

I absolutely agree with your complaints regarding iOS 6. The colored status bars and Music App look atrocious, and its inexcusable that Forstall would approve it.

I guess what I'm trying to say though, is that iOS wasn't something that was ever suppose to change. I feel the lack of advancement was a bold statement by Apple saying 'We have perfected the mobile operating system and any change will compromise our vision and the user experience'. I'm not suggesting Forstall is without flaw, I just feel that Forstall could have been a scape goat for allowing Android to catch up to iOS when he was only implementing Apple's vision.

All we can do is speculate, so who knows in the end.

 

[Cod3rror]

I am definitely happy that John Browett left. But Forstall, not so much. Yes, I do hate the old fashioned calendar, but how do we know as the public that Forstall hadn't been part of more than just the design of those specific apps?

I feel like forcing someone out for doing a job that Steve Jobs wanted them to do is not something that Apple should do.

Just my thoughts...

I agree. Forstall leaving could be very bad for iOS. And it's iOS that is selling all the iPhones and iPads.

And for the Skeumorphism haters, there was an article or a thread on The Verge recently that showed OS X applications without skeumorphism, they looked extremely bland.

 

[Truffy]

Good riddance Scott, welcome Jony

Like many, I detest the skeuomorphic UI. Hopefull Jony Ive will bring elegance and taste to the UI of both iOS and Mac OS X. This is good news!

 

[Fed]

I've always hated the look of iCal. I'll presume that was down to him.

 

[diazj3]

Let's not forget that Steve Jobs was forced out of Apple before too.

Perhaps we'll see the second coming of Scott Forstall?

Yeah, right.... Hey, and let's not forget either, that Jesus Christ was also a martyr who made an epic comeback as well!!! can this be part of a divine plan?



But seriously.... are you serious? How can you compare these two situations?

The firing and return of Steve Jobs was in a completely different time and circumstance - all financially, technologically and marketwise. He founded and owned the company. Plus, management styles didn't matter so much then, specially when it was the owner himself that was being a prick. Forstall, practically speaking, was a simple employee, who screwed up and happened to be an ambitious prick too. Sure, a Senior VP, but an employee non the less.

Don't worry too much about it...

cheers!

 

[thekev]

I'm only 19 and I like Skeumorphism touches, the textures are pretty nice, especially on a retina display.

also like the real to real tape recorder adds a touch of nostalgia. I know what one of them is and im under 30 I restored one during the summer fitting new valves in it etc. xD. They should make the Music app like a record player xD more nostalgic touches. I just like them. Gives a sense of attention to detail with all the little animations especially.

But I'm a lover of vintage tech and have quite a lot of different pieces in my room xD

There is nothing wrong with liking it. My point was that it evolved to deliver a sense of familiarity by tying icons to analogue devices that were being displaced. I can see why they want to move away from it before it starts to become cheesy, but these things are cyclical. Right now they're old, but just not quite old enough to be viewed as vintage or retro, with the possible exception of the record player.

Honestly I think Microsoft did a better job with their METRO UI then Apple has done with anything in iOS...and I think that is part of the reason for the kicking to the curb of Forstall...nothing was happening with iOS in terms of design.

Metro looks awesome and is designed amazingly in terms of the look.

This is better looking then ANYTHING Apple has done in an OS in ages.

I'd like the text to stick out a bit more against the background. There are a few ways they could probably approach that, but those are beautiful choices of background artwork. I really like the feel. I'm not personally that fickle. I've used Apple for years for work as it aligned well with what I was doing at the time, but that could change, as their current lineup is slightly limiting in some ways. It's just a sizable undertaking to get everything switched over. Most stuff I use works under either OS.

 

[Sugadaddy]

profound?? you can't swipe the multitasking bar up because it's already accessible by double clicking the home button. why would you require additional means to access the very same option? go buy some books about design usability.

Swiping up is quicker and doesn't screw up your home button. (ever tried a 2-year old iPhone's button compared to a new one??)

 

[Rogifan]

Could it be that perhaps Forstall wasn't the "golden boy" at Apple and maybe he wasn't as close to Steve as has been suggested? So if its a choice between Forstall and Ive, Ive wins?

Ive was at Steve's bedside when he died: http://tinyurl.com/9endbsb

What made the nostalgia seem even keener was something that happened in the car when we were heading into London after the flight from Italy. Newson’s iPhone rang. Ive was calling to tell him about the death of Steve Jobs the night before. Newson listened as Ive tried to convey how moving it was to be in the room with Jobs and his family during the last moments. And how strange it was to be driving home afterward, hearing the great apostle of design eulogized on the radio by the president of the United States.

And according to Adam Lashinsky, Ive, Tim Cook, Eddy Cue and Katie Cotton (PR) were the only Apple executives at Steve's burial service. Plus Ive spoke at both Steve's private memorial service and the company's public event. Also lets not forget what Steve told Walter Isaacson:

The difference that Jony has made, not only at Apple but in the world, is huge. He is a wickedly intelligent person in all ways. He understands business concepts, marketing concepts. He picks stuff up just like that, click. He understands what we do at our core better than anyone. If I had a spiritual partner at Apple, it’s Jony. Jony and I think up most of the products together and then pull others in and say, “Hey, what do you think about this?” He gets the big picture as well as the most infinitesimal details about each product. And he understands that Apple is a product company. He’s not just a designer. That’s why he works directly for me. He has more operational power than anyone else at Apple except me. There’s no one who can tell him what to do, or to butt out. That’s the way I set it up.

I think Scott found out he's no match for Jony Ive.

 

[Tar Sniffer]

I agree. Forstall leaving could be very bad for iOS. And it's iOS that is selling all the iPhones and iPads.

And for the Skeumorphism haters, there was an article or a thread on The Verge recently that showed OS X applications without skeumorphism, they looked extremely bland.

This is why I'm slightly concerned about Ive's expanded influence. The man is fantastic at what he does and can design some truly beautiful products, but I fear that he will strip iOS of its color and make the UI quite sterile.

 

[ikir]

Ah ah ah the world of speculating and internet!!
Maps fiasco? Maps is awesome, who expected its data to be on par with Google Mpas are crazy. Antennagate again? Cmon, like any other phone if you cover the antenna you loose signal no sic-fi here.

Users, especially internet forums ones are clueless.

 

[Rogifan]

I hope Ive's new role includes the cluster*** known as AppleTV and iTunes/App Store. The UI on AppleTV sucks. And the changes they made to iTunes/App Store on iOS are maddening. It makes it harder to search for stuff and see reviews.

 

[Patriks7]

Am I the only one to like the skeumorphism of some apps?

 

[Millah]

I get that some people don't like the skeumorphism. But I don't understand the passionate disdain for it. Why? Maybe they got a little carried away. In OSX it has no place there. On iOS, I completely understand the reasoning and think it was a brilliant design choice. The iPad is just a blank canvas, skeumorphic design transforms the product into the object it's displaying. It makes the software feel more natural and familiar. And I know A LOT of the average users love it. It's part of iPads appeal. It's that extra touch that makes the iPad more fun and friendly.

Yes, they got carried away. Find my Friends and Podcasts are two examples of pretty distasteful design. But to call all skeumorphism as distasteful is wrong. GarageBand and iBooks are two excellent examples of great, intuitive design that is not only easy to understand, but also visually aesthetic. If Apple were to lose all of this "fun" design philosophy, no longer creating fun animations that also offer visual clarity, I'd be disappointed. Then iOS will have generic and "computer-y" user interface.

Designing physical object and software interface are two completely different ideas. Ive clearly has a very good grasp on overall design in general, so I'm confident he can still create well-designed interface, but just remember that we are talking two different concepts.

Also remember that Scott did a lot more than simply design UI. He was responsible for a lot of the coding and core technologies inside of the OS. Something Forstall has proven himself to be incredibly talented at. iOS is as technically advanced as it is today because of the foundation, frameworks, and APIs that Forstall busted his ass working on.

I'm sad to see him go, but also optimistic about a new direction for Apple software. Federighi has yet to impress me in terms of innovative new core technologies for OSX, I hope he proves me wrong.

 

[henriknorem]

Am I the only one to like the skeumorphism of some apps?

I love the textures, it makes the apps look more welcoming. I don't understand why people want iOS to look like this: http://www.bristol.ac.uk/it-services/resnet/info/wireless/android-s1

 

[wizard]

Actually iOS is pretty damn good.

You do notice that most of the people complaining about iOS seem to think it is stale. That is baloney as the last thing you want is gratuitous changes that don't do anything for people.

Apples iOS can be improved, after all it is software, but the basic interface is not that bad. I'd much rather see Apples efforts directed at improving Siri and fixing up some of the rougher apps. That and new features.

One of those features would be system wide scripting in some apps. This so that things like Reminders and iCal can fire off user written scripts. I say some apps because not every app can justify the support of scripting. The ideal language here would be python derived.

So it comes down to this; iOS isn't broken so don't try to fix it. However that doesn't mean it can't get better, that apps can't be improved nor that capability shouldn't be expanded. In this regard iOS isn't any different than a desktop OS, Mac OS still has the Finder, And other long standing app even as other features get added.

I'm confused. What happened to all the Apple fanboys (not an insult) who said nothing was wrong with iOS and it was fine the way it was and that nothing needed to change because there was no stagnation? Serious question.

 

[MacDav]

Forstall in new advisory position...
Translation...
Scott, stay out of everybody's way until December 31st, then don't come in anymore. Or you can stay home till then, it's your choice.

Not feeling too sorry for him with his millions in Apple stock.

 

[Mike MA]

Probably good, will see.

 

[firewood]

Guys, why Steve jobs did protect him? What is good in him? There should be something that others don't understand.

He was the old bosses enforcer. That's why he was allowed to be the bully. The new boss does not need the old bosses enforcer. So the maps fiasco was a good cover for the contract hit.

And with Steve gone, who knows if Scott was enforcing Steve's ideas or his own. Or if Tim really cared. (In fact, he was told not to by Steve.)

 

[michelepri]

Too many people here are ignoring the lack of IOS innovation. While it's still selling well it's clear that Android is becoming the next big thing and and increasing number of people consider Iphone to be out and Samsung to be in. This is now what Apple used to be 3 or 4 years ago, when Iphones were truely innovative. Iphones are selling well, but so was Windows when Vista came out. Apple needs to take some action and the next iphones will need to innovate again. They can't afford to be boring again and hope that maps and Siri, or a longer phone will ve considered progress.

 

[ZeroGauge]

Can't wait to see what iOS 7 will look like!

 

[omenatarhuri]

I am definitely happy that John Browett left. But Forstall, not so much. Yes, I do hate the old fashioned calendar, but how do we know as the public that Forstall hadn't been part of more than just the design of those specific apps?

I feel like forcing someone out for doing a job that Steve Jobs wanted them to do is not something that Apple should do.

Just my thoughts...

As far as I know Steve was always quick to categorize people in to heroes and losers.

I'm happy that Tim let Forstall go. He seemed to feel way too safe in his position and was making conservative progress in a rapidly changing mobile field (while selling 95% of his stock at the same time).

In a word, he didn't seem committed.

 

[Patriks7]

I love the textures, it makes the apps look more welcoming. I don't understand why people want iOS to look like this: http://www.bristol.ac.uk/it-services/resnet/info/wireless/android-s1

Thank you, I thought I was the only one! I mean I'm sure no matter what direction they take, I will still like iOS, but currently it just gives it some life. I have to admit, it is overkill on some apps, but on others I really like it!