The point is that it won't work - it has to have a 'human touch'. As others have mentioned it is not a treo or pda.
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second thoughts about non-stylus design
- Thread starter clevin
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The point is that it won't work - it has to have a 'human touch'. As others have mentioned it is not a treo or pda.
and you missed my point. The point I trying to make is that limiting it to only "human touch" is stupid It is classic apple design which doesn't even think about the fact that a lot of people would like something a little different a a few more choices on what to they can do. The old my way or the high way additude. Got to love it.
The UI can be designed around not requiring one and clearly apple did that but there are things that having the finer point of the stylus would be nice.
I don't think so. The iPhone, as it stands, won't work with a stylus so buying one would be pointless (I'm sure there is a terrible pun in there somewhere).
well, see, apple made a decision, or a choice, will market like it? will wait and see, if apple sink this iPhone thing for variety of so called "invention", so be it. i for one, think "even a plastic protection layer would not be allowed" is gonna hurt.
Why don't you get a Treo or an Axim? Because you clearly want a totally different product than what Apple has intended with the iPhone.
It's not a matter of right or wrong. But Apple does not try to create a 'jack-of-all-trades' device, whether it's a phone or an mp3 player. They try to create a device that fulfills it primary functions as well as possible. The huge majority of people that will use an iPhone aren't going to care about a stylus.
Enabling stylus features changes the fundamental design of the phone in more ways you can imagine (for example having to go with a totally different touch screen that might not work as well for the main input method- finger touch.) It's just a matter of mashing together as many different features as possible. If Apple had done that, they'd have done a me-too device, which would be a non-starter in the first place.
And I can't believe your comment about Apple's classic 'limiting' design, which is basically the same arguments people made against the original iPod (yeah, it can't play OGG or do gapless or whatever.) I guess the iPod maybe looked like a toy compared to some of its (non) competition at the time. But that's only because Apple created a UI that was immediately inuitive and usable.
It's not a matter of right or wrong. But Apple does not try to create a 'jack-of-all-trades' device, whether it's a phone or an mp3 player. They try to create a device that fulfills it primary functions as well as possible. The huge majority of people that will use an iPhone aren't going to care about a stylus.
Enabling stylus features changes the fundamental design of the phone in more ways you can imagine (for example having to go with a totally different touch screen that might not work as well for the main input method- finger touch.) It's just a matter of mashing together as many different features as possible. If Apple had done that, they'd have done a me-too device, which would be a non-starter in the first place.
And I can't believe your comment about Apple's classic 'limiting' design, which is basically the same arguments people made against the original iPod (yeah, it can't play OGG or do gapless or whatever.) I guess the iPod maybe looked like a toy compared to some of its (non) competition at the time. But that's only because Apple created a UI that was immediately inuitive and usable.
+1
You hit the nail on the head.
There are positives and negatives when it comes to using a stylus. There are positives and negatives when it comes to using your fingers. Apple chose to use fingers, and then made the appropriate design decisions with their UI. The design decisions that apple made help mitigate the need for a stylus
Also your argument about accuracy can be used against you. Because a stylus is small and the objects that it aims for are small, then a stylus is not necessarily more precise in such a combination.
Imagine you could use a stylus in the current configuration. You would have enormous targets. And because the stylus is small it would be more precise than a finger. But it would also be over kill. With larger targets you need less precision.
Looking at the keynote demonstration of the iphone, I never got the impression that there was not enough concurrent information on the phone.
So I say, "hell ta da naw, I don't want no stylus!!"
I agree. Is having less content always a bad thing. How much content is enough. My question is, "Can Apple provide enough content for the iPhone in its current configuration."
Based on the reviews I've read I think the answer is yes. I've not read one review of someone who has used the iPhone who said that they felt that their fingers were imprecise and that they wanted a stylus. The only complaint I have read is that typing isn't very fun at the moment. Hopefully Apple can remedy that situation. Typing is a fault on the iPhone.
So as I said before
"hell ta da naw, I don't want no stylus!!"
Fingers only approach can also be a problem. Like in Finland where it's three months of cold winter almost every year. I'd never want to take my gloves off to navigate the web or just to make a call. Also fingers can get dirty easily. Ot not even dirty, just wet. I'd always need a backup phone with the iPhone. Or would you be ready to take the iPhone out of its cocoon to make a call when it's raining or -20 celcius?
Surface area is not important when it comes to digital devices (if programmed correctly). Yes, pushing on tiny little REAL (physical) buttons with big fat fingers produces errors... however that is because the REAL (physical) buttons don't know that you really meant to push down on the 5 button and not the 4 and 6, yet anyone watching you would understand that your finger was clearly centered over the 5 button. And that is exactly why surface area is not as important on a digital device.
When you press your finger down on the surface a 'hit area' is registered with the device. It knows that your finger is pressing down in a given radius on the surface. So the device only needs to figure out the center of that circle to get an idea of where you are probably trying to click. It then (depending on the action) either registers a click with the button in the center of your big fat finger or it decides based on proximity what button you were trying to press and registers a click on that button.
When inputting text it is smart enough to predict what letters you may be trying to type and it uses this to help determine where you are pressing. If you type the letters t-e-a-r it knows that the last letter "r" was what you meant and not 'e' or 'd' because 1. proximity and 2. teae is not a word nor is tead.
It is not a question of "allowing" a stylus to be used. They won't work with the kind of touch surface technology they've decided to use.
Try using a stylus on the trackpad of your laptop. Doesn't work does it?
No-one complains that you can't use a stylus with your laptop. It works fine. Your finger is small enough because the GUI is designed that way. The same is likely to be true for the iPhone.
Apple take the calculated risk that this use is maybe 0.001% of their target market. I'd buy a traditional phone if I were you.
lol, how many ppl have tried it? like... 200?
and ur question are exactly right. lets wait for market to answer it.
not only "finger only"
but also
no plastic protection layer allowed on the surface (according to the previous reply). u wonder how scratch resistant the iphone will be...
How many times, not "allowed" it's a property of the technology.
In fact I think a protector is possible as trackpads can have a protective film applied and the technology is similar.
So, one less thing to winge about.
oh I could see that being a problem and a a lot warmer areas than where you are. I can think you can go pretty far south and there be a few months out of the year one would not want to take off there glove to use the phone to make/answer calls.
I hope that apple has a button or 2 that does not require this touch tech. and that button would all the caller to answer their phone and let them use voice dial because hitting the number pad buttons is hard enough on a normal cell but side buttons are normally not a huge problem.
But with a way to activate voice dial and answer the phone with out needed to use the touch screen would solve a lot of those problem.
I also would like to just see that system in place because in normal use those things are nice. Since the phone is not a flip phone you can not use the answer on flip mode. and Voice dial I have started to like more and more because it is just easier to use that when my hands are not really free to mess with the phone to much.
A context-sensitive display needs less content to begin with.
Why are you trying to make this a Palm PDA? This is a smartphone that has great calling features, contact synchronization, and iLife type functionality, the things most people are doing with their computers (in addition to web and email.)
Smartphones have tons of small, cramped buttons with different functions, side buttons, etc. All of which are rendered unnecessary by the iPhone's multi-touch display.
And you want to replace that interface with a stylus, and re-introduce complexity? How many people want to use stylus with their current cell phone?
A Palm TX is great, for what it does and for its intended audience. The iPhone is for a much different (and significantly bigger) audience.
i didn't try to make iphone anything, don't accuse me based on your feeling. read my words.
Children's Fingers
Am I the only one with nightmarish news stories running through my head about black markets forming for slim children's fingers on keychains?
I really need to stop watching television.
Personally, I think we'll be OK without screen protection - as long as it goes in the pocket without the keys.
Am I the only one with nightmarish news stories running through my head about black markets forming for slim children's fingers on keychains?
I really need to stop watching television.
Personally, I think we'll be OK without screen protection - as long as it goes in the pocket without the keys.
A. Sorry if I misinterpreted you.
B. I'm not a moron, I did read your post. Yes, the interface takes up more room. But how much room do you need for most of the iPhone's intended tasks?
A stylus would generally mean a touch-sensitive display like say a Palm, which would work much differently than a capacitance-based display.
It's not that what anyone else wants is wrong. But the basic initial decisions you make about a device and its intended audience dictate almost everything else that comes after that. If you instead try to make it everything for everybody, you end up with compromises. The basic design decisions behind the iPhone are not too difficult to understand.
That doesn't mean Apple might not release a difference device that would be more suited to general mobile computing later, like a slate device. But that one will be a totally different product with a totally different design.
not only "finger only"
but also
no plastic protection layer allowed on the surface (according to the previous reply). u wonder how scratch resistant the iphone will be...
We actually don't know this for sure. I've controlled my iPod (which uses capacitance detection) through my pants. I have a cotton shirt on right now, and I can control my iPod through the shirt (scroll, not just click
).Also, many film-type protectors for the iPod come with a sticker overlay that goes over the scroll wheel. I have a rubber case that actually covers the click wheel, and it works fine.
So it might be possible to not only have a screen protector, but possibly thin gloves. You can with the iPod, which uses the same basic technology for user input.
I think we wont have anything to worry about with the iPhone. Steve said this was different than any other touch-screen ever shipped. With that said, we shouldn't need to worry about not being able to use a stylus. This is Apple we're talking about. They spent a long time thinking about this thing and testing it. If he is confident enough to remove all the buttons on the phone and toss out the stylus as well, I think he knows what he's doing.
"Yuck, nobody wants a stylus" - Steve
"Yuck, nobody wants a stylus" - Steve