Other See, Apple can be wrong (USB-C). What else needs a rethink?

[decafjava]

Siri:

It has been a major part of the iOS experience since 2012 with the release of the iPhone 5 (I know it existed on iPhone as an app before), and has been pretty dreadful for over a decade. Even the likes of Google and Amazon have produced smart assistants on cheap products that are much better and actually produce the results the user requires.

Maps:

Outside of the United States this service is flakey at best. I tried it recently after a 10 year break and it is still unreliable. Nice interface but that is about it.

HomePod:

Not iPhone related but, Apple watched the competition release affordable home smart assistants and build up a userbase before releasing the HomePod which was an eye watering £319. It blocked non-Apple services initially in an attempt to force people to buy Apple services like Music and tempt them away from Spotify and Amazon. It didn't really work and finally they conceded to discontinue the original HomePod and focus on the HomePod Mini, albeit nearlt 4 years too late.

Siri:

Yes, pretty dire indeed. I do use it to turn on and off wifi/bluetooth and ask the current weather. Useless for anything else.

Maps:

Actually all right for Switzerland but still lagging behind if I want to find a particular business/building at least in comparison to Google.

HomePod:

Never had one and not interested personally.

Siri should be a priority for Apple.

 

[Ralfi]

Siri should be a priority for Apple.

Especially in this AI age.

there was simply a large number of legacy peripherals using lightning.

Which could have converted to USB-C before they got to a ‘large number’….

Again, they lagged for years.

 

[ifxf]

I wonder if the EUC is forcing sites to change to USB-C ports. I have seen no place that doesn't have USB-A (hotel, bus, gym, train, etc).

Last trip I took the plane offered USB-C ports and the hotel had wireless bedside charging. So as sites are refreshed charging capabilities will be updated. Of course, this will happen more quickly overseas since in the US most restaurants still take your credit card away from your table.

 

[masotime]

RE: smartphones, not other devices that had it years prior.

Competitors had USB-C on their phones for years. Apple lagged behind in this regard & would have continued to do so if not for Europe nudging them along.

Yes this is the important context I am referring to. I think this should be indicated clearly in the original post.

It’s also unclear what they were “wrong” about, given this original context. What exactly was “wrong” about them pioneering the USB-C standard?

 

[theluggage]

Not iPhone related but, Apple watched the competition release affordable home smart assistants and build up a userbase before releasing the HomePod which was an eye watering £319.

I think Apple were hoping to tap in to the "audiophile" wireless speaker market rather than directly competing with "home assistants". At the time some brands of "high end" bluetooth speakers were priced between $500 and infinity... while "home assistant" from Amazon and Google were being sold as loss-leaders (since they are, respectively, Amazon cash registers and Google data-gatherers). Even the higher-end "pro" options from Googlezon narrowed the gap a bit. Most of Apple's marketing was about audio quality rather than smart features. Looks like, instead of that, the cheap "you are the product" home assistants gave the "audiophile" wireless speaker market, along with the Homepod, a major haircut - even "expensive" brands like Bose seem a bit more reasonable now.

I quite agree that locking the Homepod to Apple Music etc. was a deal-breaker, though.

 

[theluggage]

It makes zero sense for the VP to spend two minutes to disparage the EU law and then comment on the environmental cost of the transition to USB-C. Clearly, Apple had no intention to move iPhone 15 to USB-C.

Apple need to dump Lightning anyway, because only USB-C can provide full USB 3.1/2, Thunderbolt and 4k/5k display support on the iPad Pro and top-end iPhone - at which point it becomes increasingly stupid to have 2 different iPhone/iPad connectors.

But when Apple switched from analogue-era 30 pin to Lightning there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth from consumers who had to throw out all of their 30 pin cables, docks, alarm clock bases etc. There was also a lot of push-back against USB-C on Macs (although that was justified by Apple jumping the gun by a few years and dropping all other ports). There will be many customers annoyed (rightly or wrongly) at the USB-C switch on iPhones.

So, whether you call it marketing, politics or "briar patching", the EU makes a great bogeyman to take the blame for the switch.

 

[JPack]

Apple need to dump Lightning anyway, because only USB-C can provide full USB 3.1/2, Thunderbolt and 4k/5k display support on the iPad Pro and top-end iPhone - at which point it becomes increasingly stupid to have 2 different iPhone/iPad connectors.

But when Apple switched from analogue-era 30 pin to Lightning there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth from consumers who had to throw out all of their 30 pin cables, docks, alarm clock bases etc. There was also a lot of push-back against USB-C on Macs (although that was justified by Apple jumping the gun by a few years and dropping all other ports). There will be many customers annoyed (rightly or wrongly) at the USB-C switch on iPhones.

So, whether you call it marketing, politics or "briar patching", the EU makes a great bogeyman to take the blame for the switch.

If it were up to Apple, they might have developed Lightning V2, with a double row of pins or something. We see that idea with Vision Pro battery pack connector.

At minimum, Apple would have treated USB-C as a premium feature, dribbling it out to iPhone Pro models first, then to regular models later. We saw that with the iPad family.

 

[theluggage]

If it were up to Apple, they might have developed Lightning V2, with a double row of pins or something. We see that idea with Vision Pro battery pack connector.

Well, if you believe some sources, USB-C was mostly developed by Apple and pretty much is Lightning 2. Even taking that with a pinch of salt, there are advantages to having a common connector. For starters, they couldn't call a non-USB-C Lightning 2 port "Thunderbolt3/4" or "USB4" for licensing reasons. Then there's things like being able to use the same charge/data connectors/docks as Macs... When they introduced 30-pin and Lightning (after a brief flirtation with Firewire on the first iPods) there was no real alternative apart from the horrible, horrible USB B, mini B and micro B connectors (which probably didn't have the bandwidth anyway).

 

[I7guy]

does it not follow that if you make a higher number of customers happy then you could increase your customer base.. thereby increasing revenue and positive advertising via word-of-mouth? Or is this too much common sense for corporations to understand?

And in your opinion apple is at the right or wrong price point for its products?

 

[I7guy]

Look I know you’re heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem, but my advice to anyone is to not do this - incorporate some Google or Amazon Smart Home devices into your environment as they’ll perform better than Apple’s in many aspects.

No thank you. My apple ecosystem products works for the most part in my favor.

Everyone should have a USB-C cable by now. I‘m pretty shocked that you don’t tbh.

Anyway, this is another deflection from the point of the thread…

USB-c seems like the headphone jack in the amount of contention it draws.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

I think Apple were hoping to tap in to the "audiophile" wireless speaker market rather than directly competing with "home assistants". At the time some brands of "high end" bluetooth speakers were priced between $500 and infinity... while "home assistant" from Amazon and Google were being sold as loss-leaders (since they are, respectively, Amazon cash registers and Google data-gatherers). Even the higher-end "pro" options from Googlezon narrowed the gap a bit. Most of Apple's marketing was about audio quality rather than smart features. Looks like, instead of that, the cheap "you are the product" home assistants gave the "audiophile" wireless speaker market, along with the Homepod, a major haircut - even "expensive" brands like Bose seem a bit more reasonable now.

I quite agree that locking the Homepod to Apple Music etc. was a deal-breaker, though.

They then realised the audiophile market is niche in its own right and the inability to plug devices into the HomePod was as much of a deal breaker as being restricted to Apple Music. If someone can buy a cheap speaker from Amazon or isn’t paranoid about their data being gathered despite even those sorts of people having an internet presence, it was a strategy that ultimately failed. It became a situation where even though it was superior in terms of sound quality, the market was a bit ‘so what?’. The AVP reminds me a bit of this where it’s likely offering a superior user experience through its hardware, but many will have a ‘so what?’ sort of attitude. Id rather Apple solved Siri on the iPhone and other devices rather than leave it half baked and produce more products that may also end up that way.

 

[I7guy]

I think Apple were hoping to tap in to the "audiophile" wireless speaker market rather than directly competing with "home assistants". At the time some brands of "high end" bluetooth speakers were priced between $500 and infinity... while "home assistant" from Amazon and Google were being sold as loss-leaders (since they are, respectively, Amazon cash registers and Google data-gatherers). Even the higher-end "pro" options from Googlezon narrowed the gap a bit. Most of Apple's marketing was about audio quality rather than smart features. Looks like, instead of that, the cheap "you are the product" home assistants gave the "audiophile" wireless speaker market, along with the Homepod, a major haircut - even "expensive" brands like Bose seem a bit more reasonable now.

I quite agree that locking the Homepod to Apple Music etc. was a deal-breaker, though.

Wasn’t a deal breaker for me. I have two of them. Now if I was in the market for a non -smart speaker there are many options. But for my use HomePods were the best.

 

[chrono1081]

Getting rid of IAP and making apps pay once use forever.

As much as I hate IAP this literally can't happen. The problem is the public at large seem to think small screens mean the app was quicker/easier to make and they don't want to pay a lot (if anything) for it, so developers had to find some way to make money because the days of making a silly app in a weekend and making money from it are long gone.

Apps are very complex these days and cost the developers a lot of time and money and they need a way to recoup that cost and make a profit and nearly every app has some kind of server cost or SDK cost with it the developer has to pay for monthly (and most are not cheap). They're not going to afford that on a 99 cent one time app.

 

[jb310]

Where else has Apple missed the mark on for a long time now & needs immediate fixing in order to make the every day user experience much better (not a petty little feature that only a minority of people use, I mean a major aspect of the iPhone that everyone uses & needs to improve the device in a significant way)?

Considering how many people bring it up, probably giving people more than just the bare minimum when it comes to RAM? A lot of Android flagships come with 12 to 16 GB of RAM, meanwhile the iPhone 15 comes with only 6 GB.

The differences get even more stark with laptops, where 32 GB of RAM is becoming more common to start, while the MacBook Air and Pros still start with 8 GB. And the whole "8 GB of RAM on Apple Silicon is as good as 16 GB on a PC" idea sounds ridiculous, especially since the integrated GPU uses some of that RAM as VRAM.

 

[Iwavvns]

And in your opinion apple is at the right or wrong price point for its products?

Opinion, by it’s very definition, is not fact. My opinion is important to me, it shouldn’t be important to anyone else.

 

[I7guy]

Opinion, by it’s very definition, is not fact. My opinion is important to me, it shouldn’t be important to anyone else.

You posted something. Were asked about it. Now deflected to it’s only my opinion. Ok then.

 

[icanhazmac]

For me, it’s Siri. How this company has persisted with a subpar voice assistant for so long is pretty puzzling. Europe needs to intervene again.

LOL.

What exactly should should/could Europe do about Siri? Are you really suggesting that Europe should involve themselves in the perceived quality of voice assistants?

Still waiting for the OP to tell us what Europe should do about Siri and why they should have any involvement at all?

 

[Ralfi]

What exactly was “wrong” about them pioneering the USB-C standard?

🙂 By not implementing it in their main product (iPhone) sooner.

Still waiting for the OP to tell us what Europe should do about Siri and why they should have any involvement at all?

It was a joke throw-away line to lighten the mood 😏

 

[ProbablyDylan]

Still waiting for the OP to tell us what Europe should do about Siri and why they should have any involvement at all?

I need Europe to force Apple to add more voices for Siri. I need to know what the weather in NYC in a thick German accent!

 

[JPack]

Well, if you believe some sources, USB-C was mostly developed by Apple and pretty much is Lightning 2. Even taking that with a pinch of salt, there are advantages to having a common connector. For starters, they couldn't call a non-USB-C Lightning 2 port "Thunderbolt3/4" or "USB4" for licensing reasons. Then there's things like being able to use the same charge/data connectors/docks as Macs... When they introduced 30-pin and Lightning (after a brief flirtation with Firewire on the first iPods) there was no real alternative apart from the horrible, horrible USB B, mini B and micro B connectors (which probably didn't have the bandwidth anyway).

Those sources probably wear Apple-colored glasses. USB-C was developed by USB-IF. If Apple had developed USB-C, they would have patented it first like they did with Lightning. Then they would have released it for public use.

With Lightning 2, Apple could have marketed it as "Lightning 2 Supports USB4."


In an alternate reality without being forced to adopt USB-C, I don't think Apple would care about supporting Thunderbolt on iPhone. Their roadmap was leaning heavily towards a portless iPhone relying on MagSafe, AirDrop, and AirPods.

2015: USB-C MacBook
2023: USB-C iPhone

I seriously doubt it took Apple 8 years to realize, "Let's have the same connector as MacBook." There was never any intention to adopt USB-C on iPhone.

 

[theluggage]

Those sources probably wear Apple-colored glasses. USB-C was developed by USB-IF. If Apple had developed USB-C, they would have patented it first like they did with Lightning. Then they would have released it for public use.

USB-C was developed by the USB-IF of which Apple are a prominent member, along with Intel (with whom Apple worked closely on Thunderbolt... which adopted USB-C for TB3). It's also highly likely that USB-C - as a smart, reversible connector - requires a bunch of Apple Lightning patents. The idea that Apple designed USB-C all by themselves may be wishful thinking, but they certainly played a significant role in its development, and were an early adopter.

Their roadmap was leaning heavily towards a portless iPhone relying on MagSafe, AirDrop, and AirPods.

...which wouldn't have been affected by the EU directive since it would not be "capable of being recharged by means of wired charging". Not even clear that the base would need USB-C (although that would be sensible) - the EU seemed to have kicked the regulation of wireless charging down the road, but even Apple seem to be supporting the Qi standard there...

 

[throAU]

Not iPhone related but, Apple watched the competition release affordable home smart assistants and build up a userbase before releasing the HomePod which was an eye watering £319. It blocked non-Apple services initially in an attempt to force people to buy Apple services like Music and tempt them away from Spotify and Amazon. It didn't really work and finally they conceded to discontinue the original HomePod and focus on the HomePod Mini, albeit nearlt 4 years too late.

The big home pod is back on the market in revised form.

I've got a bunch of them (mostly minis) and the OG homepod is WAY better sound quality than any other smart speaker on the market.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

The big home pod is back on the market in revised form.

I've got a bunch of them (mostly minis) and the OG homepod is WAY better sound quality than any other smart speaker on the market.

People do own them, I wasn't suggesting anything else and I also doffed my cap that they produce very good sound quality.

However, they were a hard sell to the wider market at launch due to their much higher price point and the fact they were limited strategically to Apple services. Both of these were addressed by Apple at a later date due to market response when they opened them up for other services and knocked £100 off the price. Someone else mentioned that Apple were not trying to compete in the smart speaker market, despite them being a smart speaker with voice and HomeKit capabilities. They were aiming towards the Audiophile market and competing at the more niche end against the likes of Bowerss & Wilkins, Bang & Olufsen and Bose as a bluetooth speaker first and foremost. I am not sure I totally agree with that as all the marketing I saw upon release was aimed at being a great sounding smart assistant/speaker for the home.

Unfortunately, a great sound receives a bit of a 'so what?' response when cheap smart assistants offer better voice accuracy and sound 'good enough' for the mainstream market. Apple really should have improved Siri long before this product was released as all iPhone users can agree, and this would have vastly improved the response too IMO.