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SnowLeopard2008

macrumors 604
Jul 4, 2008
6,772
18
Silicon Valley
I completely disagree.

The difference in expense of the phone has little to do with the outer shell but more what's inside it. HTC's always have too small of batteries and IMO Sense is terrible compared to the current touch wiz. I'd hardly consider getting more bang for your buck by compromising hardware and software so the outer shell feels better in your hand.

I keep my iPhone 4S in a lifeproof case which feels like really cheap plastic. My point of mentioning that is if I keep one of the best feeling phones ever (my opinion) in a case what does it matter? Unless you are the type that doesn't use a case then maybe it will matter? I still wouldn't trade the material of the shell for software/hardware. IPhone 5 turns into a mess without a case and that supposedly "nice" material.....yeah, no thanks...I'm waiting for the next iPhone BECAUSE of build material. Coated aluminum is fine but you'll need to do it like Motorola for me to buy into it..

What hardware/software compromises? We all know it's pretty easy to root and install custom ROMs. Much easier to jailbreak/root than on iPhones. HTC uses Qualcomm SoCs. Hardly a compromise. Qualcomm makes some of the best silicon for mobile devices and second only to Apple's AX series. Software is still the same at it's core (it's called Android) which provides most of the functionality of the phone.

Your logic is deeply flawed. Does that mean we shouldn't give a crap about build quality/material simply because we probably would get a case? No. Build quality is build quality regardless of whatever 3rd party accessory you put on it. Same with build material. Samsung's Exynos isn't that great. iPhone 4S A5 still competes very well with Galaxy S3's SoC, which is pretty sad because the A5 is over one year old.

iPhone 5 doesn't turn into a mess. It could but most of the people I know who use it normally (i.e. they don't just toss it around as if it were made of diamond) have a few marks from drops and whatnot, but still look great. Anodization and coated aluminum are different. Just like your flawed logic and actual logic.

Just curious, what materials do the HTC and Nokia offer that are of higher quality than the polycarbonate used in the S3?

They're all "plastic" but we know there are different types of plastic, different coatings, different thicknesses, different processes to create the plastic and most importantly plastic structure (unibody versus piece by piece). This holds true for aluminum. Not all aluminum is the same and we haven't even gotten into different alloys and grades and coatings/anodizations.

I use my phones without a case and my iPhone 5 is spotless since I got it on release day. My Note 2 is 3 weeks old and there are dings all over the plastic and scuffs on the back cover already!

----------



Substantially thicker plastic that is rubber coated on HTC phones which does not scratch nor creak. Then on the Nokia's they also use thicker plastic with a unibody design.

HTC and Nokia devices most definitely feel more substantial in the hand compared to the latest Galaxy phones.

I really like how HTC uses plastic but it the end result turns out really premium looking and feeling. It doesn't feel like cheap or flimsy but solid.

They don't want more spotlight. If they did they would spend as much on advertising and marketing as Samsung did last year (re: 4billion, highest in the industry). Samsung pushed the Galaxy brand hard and it actually worked. The other companies either don't have these kinds of resources or are waiting for a miracle - or both.

As for Google, they could be worried. Tech guys on forums know the difference between the Galaxy and Android brands but the general consumers (you know the ones that make up Android's huge marketshare but don't know much about tech) do not. I've talked to a few people over the last month who told me they want to try the Galaxy phones because they heard that "Galaxy was better" than their iPhones. No one mentioned Android.

There were rumors that Samsung wanted to drop Android in favor of their own OS. With TouchWiz become more useful and popular, Samsung may be able to pull it off in the future. They'll lose the Android guys, but keep the consumers hooked on the Galaxy brand - and there will be a lot of them by that time. Then Google should be concerned.

Of course they want it, whether they can afford to spend on marketing is another thing. They all just don't want to be a dumb prick like Samsung who thinks bashing Apple by saying their stuff is crappier is good marketing. I rarely see Samsung marketing their product. I see Samsung saying hey guys we're better than Apple but we won't tell you why because we actually suck so bad.

Of course tech guys know the difference. That is so obvious. This is technology! If technology enthusiasts don't know the different then who does? Either way, Google doesn't care about Galaxy vs Android UNLESS Samsung ditches Android. If Google wanted Android to be a household term, they would market Android themselves instead of just providing free source code and letting it be.

Maybe Samsung will be able to pull it off but I doubt it. All the apps that run on their Galaxy devices are Android apps. There is a huge ecosystem developed by Google. Apps and other multimedia content in Google Play. Samsung wants to lose that and start all over? No. They will customize Android more and more to fit their own needs. But they won't say goodbye to Android itself. Don't tell me Tizen is their answer. Because I will say Meego as my answer.
 

SlCKB0Y

macrumors 68040
Feb 25, 2012
3,431
557
Sydney, Australia
As for Google, they could be worried. Tech guys on forums know the difference between the Galaxy and Android brands but the general consumers (you know the ones that make up Android's huge marketshare but don't know much about tech) do not.

The accounts guy at my work who is the office joke when it comes to technology understands the concept of Android. I'd seriously question the company I was keeping if i was surrounded by people who couldn't work it out. Try the following and if the person still can't get it, they are probably too stupid to be living anyway:

"You know how Windows is an operating system made by Microsoft and it can run on all different computers such as those from HP, Dell, Acer and Sony?

Well, Android is an operating system made by Google which runs on many different phones from HTC, LG, Sony, and yes, even that Samsung Galaxy you've got there as well as many others.

If they still don't get it you could try following it up with the following (notice the bold text, because at this point in time you are yelling in frustration at their stupidity and inability to grasp a very simple concept).

That's why your phone and its Apps are absolutely riddled with references to Android and Google and your phone has pictures of little robots (Androids) all through it.

This is also why it was impossible to read any documentation about your phone, or do any web searches about it without being absolutely bombarded with references to Android or Google.

Were you curious as to why, when you bought your phone, the sales guy kept mentioning the androids and that part of the store had little green robots all over it? Yep, you guessed it!

I've talked to a few people over the last month who told me they want to try the Galaxy phones because they heard that "Galaxy was better" than their iPhones. No one mentioned Android.

Are you a scientist? I ask because your method of "asking a few friends" is the pinnacle of scientific method and a sure way to arrive at evidence based conclusions.
 
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xraydoc

Contributor
Oct 9, 2005
11,030
5,491
192.168.1.1
If I were Google, I'd be concerned. Samsung could branch Android much like Amazon/Kindle and put a significant dent in to Google's ability to steer the platform.
 

scott craft

macrumors 6502a
Feb 10, 2011
697
143
Louisiana
HTC does have better build quality than Samsung but small batteries and no memory card slot really hurts them. Also keeping their premium phone like the One X on a single carrier hasn't helped any.
 

ChrisTX

macrumors 68030
Dec 30, 2009
2,686
54
Texas
It's pretty sad but true. Samsung's Galaxy line of smartphones are all pretty crappy. From performance to looks to build quality, it's all pretty terrible. I wish HTC, LG and Nokia got more spotlight. Nokia made some of the best phones back in the day. HTC still impresses with their Droid DNA/Butterfly smartphone. They are in stark contract to the ****** cheap plastic crap that Samsung is known for.

I don't think Google should be concerned. They aren't the primary hardware company. They just want to spread Android since Android is an extension of Google services like Gmail, Google+, search, etc. I mean sure Tizen could run Android apps but that is a temporary measure. It's still Android apps. Android still needs to exist.

Is this a different type of "****** cheap plastic crap" than Apple used for the iPhone 3G/S, and is apparently going to use again? :rolleyes:
 

Fernandez21

macrumors 601
Jun 16, 2010
4,840
3,183
Is this a different type of "****** cheap plastic crap" than Apple used for the iPhone 3G/S, and is apparently going to use again? :rolleyes:

No, cheap ****** plastic is still cheap ****** plastic. My iPhone 3GS was in an otter box case and it still managed to get cracks along the charging port. What's your point? The poster never mentioned apple.

----------

If I were Google, I'd be concerned. Samsung could branch Android much like Amazon/Kindle and put a significant dent in to Google's ability to steer the platform.

I think this would be more likely than Samsung making their own OS.
 

VulchR

macrumors 68040
Jun 8, 2009
3,508
14,459
Scotland
If I were Google, I'd be concerned. Samsung could branch Android much like Amazon/Kindle and put a significant dent in to Google's ability to steer the platform.

I am no expert, but it seems like this might be a potential outcome. After all, as Samsung becomes more associated with Android, they become more vulnerable to decisions made at Google. Also, Google now does hardware - so what prevents Samsung from getting into the software business and competing with Google's services?
 

hovscorpion12

macrumors 68040
Sep 12, 2011
3,044
3,125
USA
No because Samsung uses Google's android OS. If Google uses Motorola to mass produce there own cell phone, then google should be scared of Samsung. Samsung is rumored to have its own operating system, planing to leave google.
 

cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,959
2,156
What hardware/software compromises? We all know it's pretty easy to root and install custom ROMs. Much easier to jailbreak/root than on iPhones. HTC uses Qualcomm SoCs. Hardly a compromise. Qualcomm makes some of the best silicon for mobile devices and second only to Apple's AX series. Software is still the same at it's core (it's called Android) which provides most of the functionality of the phone.

Your logic is deeply flawed. Does that mean we shouldn't give a crap about build quality/material simply because we probably would get a case? No. Build quality is build quality regardless of whatever 3rd party accessory you put on it. Same with build material. Samsung's Exynos isn't that great. iPhone 4S A5 still competes very well with Galaxy S3's SoC, which is pretty sad because the A5 is over one year old.

iPhone 5 doesn't turn into a mess. It could but most of the people I know who use it normally (i.e. they don't just toss it around as if it were made of diamond) have a few marks from drops and whatnot, but still look great. Anodization and coated aluminum are different. Just like your flawed logic and actual logic.

If you think you calling my logic flawed negates the fact people want, buy, prefer Samsung even with its build quality vs HTC which is backed up by units bought, sold, shipped plus obvious stock prices makes it true maybe you should question your own logic....

As far as rooting roming goes, well I'm assuming you don't goto Android forums very often. Considering everyone want the latest touchwiz on their HTC phone is saying something.

I'm not going to get into the whole spec debate. I said hardware, not omgz my processor is a Qualcomm blah blah GHz and gb's. I'm talking NFC, Waccom screens with stylus, expansion ports for memory, mpt USB ports, removable batteries, etc...

HTC is a crappy iPhone knock off anymore with an undersized battery and a terrible version of android wrapped in a nice package. It reminds me of the movie tommy boy when he's talking about how he can crap in a box but stick a nice shiny warranty on it....
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
13,329
7,422
LOL. I hope Samsung drops Android and goes to oblivion! Cocky thinking like that will only sink them. Android made Samsung successful in the smartphone market. They were nothing in the market before Google came along.

Samsung would go into oblivion if they didn't make Android phones?

Really?

That's what you think?

I could get you saying their smartphone business might, though even that is debatable. They could throw their weight behind Windows Phone, have the best in that field, and make a lot of money that way.

Remember guys, their marketing budget dwarfs the entire budget of some companies. >_>;
 

b166er

macrumors 68020
Apr 17, 2010
2,062
18
Philly
Does Google really care what Samsung does to Android? I don't see why they would. At the end of the day, anyone can do whatever they want to Android, and that is the way Google designed the OS. I think there will always be a successful nexus line, because a lot of people still desire pure android, and let's face it, the nexus line is inexpensive.

Samsung is huge, no doubt about it. But they are nothing when they stand next to Google. Other hardware companies should be concerned, not Google. Samsung could easily demolish some of the other big names in a few years time. And as for Google, they could bow out of the smartphone game tomorrow and still be one of the biggest companies on the planet.

Plus, Samsung has the ability to make phones that run Android, WP8, and whatever their own OS will be called, all at the same time. They make nice hardware, they provide a lot of wow factor to get people spending, they advertise like crazy, and most importantly they know what they are doing in this business.
 

Explicitic

macrumors 6502
Oct 26, 2012
455
11
Undecided
Although Samsung is a big part of what makes Android successful, Google isn't concerned about Samsung simple because it gets them users and if they ever did decide to do something stupid like create their own fork of Android or completely drop it for their own OS (or even Tizen), then let them die a painful death. The point is basically, Samsung needs Android to succeed. Their Bada phones are just horrible and I don't see Tizen becoming anything more than another WP7 or even BB.

If Samsung did ever decide to drop Android, or do something incredibly stupid, everyone would ditch them and it would be the perfect time for another Android manufacturer (specifically HTC) to show all they've got and steal the market.

One of the biggest reasons I purchase mostly Samsung devices is because they create almost all of their hardware. It gives them more control of the device and just makes it feel right, IMO. <- Last part probably didn't make sense....
 

grkm3

macrumors 65816
Feb 12, 2013
1,049
568
Guys I don't know where to start with this but I will try my best to make you understand what android is all about.First of all you need to understand that android from the get go was all about open source and FREE to use to get people using there os.

Google charges nothing for android and makes zero from cell makers that choose to use android to build there custom themed version of it on there phones.Google has the nexus line that is pure bread vanilla android and it looks the way google wants its os to look.Google puts on there servers the open source code for its latest version of android and all the cell phone makers dl and start building there own versions of it with the pure aosp source from google.There is zero point for Samsung to make there own ground up os because android gives them all the tools and updates for free and from the ground up encourages makers to customize android to fit people needs.

because of this openness and the way android was made from the ground up is the reason we have so many companies competing against each other,if that were not the case we would all have a cell phone that looked like a nexus on every makers phone.

The only reason the nexus device by google was made was for devs to get the latest android and build off of it,its basically the mother off all and will always have pure android.

Now why would Samsung leave android and make there own os when google has some of the best devs in the world making the os better and better for them and free to be on top?Samsung could not use android apps if they made there own os and the android ecosystem is what google wants out of its os.

People are using android and there account and get that app store and google makes money off the searches and apps people buy and use on there os,they do NOT charge a dime for android and if you wanted to you can go right on the google servers and dl the source right now and compile your own os and make a cell phone from scratch and use it.
 

brendu

Cancelled
Apr 23, 2009
2,472
2,703
Wait up a second. Samsung, and Samsung ALONE has made googles mobile operating system the most popular in the world. Google should be ecstatic about how well Samsung is doing. Google is making money from each phone that taps into their services so I doubt they care that Samsung is crushing. Also why on earth would Samsung want to ditch Google when they are the company innovating on the OS and doing 90% of the software development...

Google and Samsung are both very happy with their current success.
 

sentinelsx

macrumors 68010
Feb 28, 2011
2,004
0
Guys I don't know where to start with this but I will try my best to make you understand what android is all about.First of all you need to understand that android from the get go was all about open source and FREE to use to get people using there os.

Google charges nothing for android and makes zero from cell makers that choose to use android to build there custom themed version of it on there phones.Google has the nexus line that is pure bread vanilla android and it looks the way google wants its os to look.Google puts on there servers the open source code for its latest version of android and all the cell phone makers dl and start building there own versions of it with the pure aosp source from google.There is zero point for Samsung to make there own ground up os because android gives them all the tools and updates for free and from the ground up encourages makers to customize android to fit people needs.

because of this openness and the way android was made from the ground up is the reason we have so many companies competing against each other,if that were not the case we would all have a cell phone that looked like a nexus on every makers phone.

The only reason the nexus device by google was made was for devs to get the latest android and build off of it,its basically the mother off all and will always have pure android.

Now why would Samsung leave android and make there own os when google has some of the best devs in the world making the os better and better for them and free to be on top?Samsung could not use android apps if they made there own os and the android ecosystem is what google wants out of its os.

People are using android and there account and get that app store and google makes money off the searches and apps people buy and use on there os,they do NOT charge a dime for android and if you wanted to you can go right on the google servers and dl the source right now and compile your own os and make a cell phone from scratch and use it.

Ermm no, google doesn't make "zero" from manufacturers. You see those google apps on the phones? The gmail, search (now), maps, drive, google play etc and more? Google makes money by charging license fees for those.

Google also thrives on having the ability to gather data as their search and apps are used on android phones. That's why amazon is not liked by them because they have blocked all google revenue.
 

Carl Sagan

macrumors 6502a
May 31, 2011
603
17
The Universe
News today is that Samsung are readying their own OS as they're now viewing Google as a competitor due to its Motorolla. Looks like I was bang on the shilling about Google having a lot to worry about with Samsung being so gigantic.
 

grkm3

macrumors 65816
Feb 12, 2013
1,049
568
Ermm no, google doesn't make "zero" from manufacturers. You see those google apps on the phones? The gmail, search (now), maps, drive, google play etc and more? Google makes money by charging license fees for those.

Google also thrives on having the ability to gather data as their search and apps are used on android phones. That's why amazon is not liked by them because they have blocked all google revenue.

ohhh please god please show me one single source showing a license fees for gmail,playstore,maps etc.You have no idea what the hell your talking about.

You can dl those google apps (gapps in the dev world)for FREE,let me type this again so you can understand it,for FREE.

android is open source Linux and its whole purpose is to be free and open.Google makes its money on the back end from people using google search and clicking adds and buying stuff in the google play store.I cant believe you just said google charges for its playstore,you can dl the gapps for free right off the google server.

here you go,here is android devs page where you can dl the source code and build your own os

http://developer.android.com/index.html

here is the compiled google apps that include gmail,playstore,maps and a few other vanilla android apps.

http://goo.im/gapps

here is the sdk dev kit with pretty much everything you need to get started and a cut and paste about its license

SDK License from Google

3.1 Subject to the terms of this License Agreement, Google grants you a limited, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the SDK solely to develop applications to run on the Android platform.

dl here if u want it

http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html#download
 
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grkm3

macrumors 65816
Feb 12, 2013
1,049
568
News today is that Samsung are readying their own OS as they're now viewing Google as a competitor due to its Motorolla. Looks like I was bang on the shilling about Google having a lot to worry about with Samsung being so gigantic.

You have no idea what your talking about,samsung makes its own custom os with the sdk tool android gives them.Google bought moto for its patents to fight against apple.

Um Samsung is already making its own os and guess what?its based on open source android.

how can google be its competitor when its the base for its os? without google/android there would not be Samsung.you do know Samsung has windows os and used syban before right.

unreal

wait do you somehow think Samsung is going to make a ground up os and leave android behind on the galaxy s4 when android has almost 80% world market share?Who is going to code apps for a new os that Samsung makes?some how you think that Samsung can make its own os and use the android app system and market that is coded to run on Linux based android

that's like you installing the new Blackberry market on your iphone and using specific BB apps or better yet installing the google playstore and somehow thinking the apps will run on ios
 
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sentinelsx

macrumors 68010
Feb 28, 2011
2,004
0
ohhh please god please show me one single source showing a license fees for gmail,playstore,maps etc.You have no idea what the hell your talking about.

You can dl those google apps (gapps in the dev world)for FREE,let me type this again so you can understand it,for FREE.

android is open source Linux and its whole purpose is to be free and open.Google makes its money on the back end from people using google search and clicking adds and buying stuff in the google play store.I cant believe you just said google charges for its playstore,you can dl the gapps for free right off the google server.

here you go,here is android devs page where you can dl the source code and build your own os

http://developer.android.com/index.html

here is the compiled google apps that include gmail,playstore,maps and a few other vanilla android apps.

http://goo.im/gapps

here is the sdk dev kit with pretty much everything you need to get started and a cut and paste about its license

SDK License from Google

3.1 Subject to the terms of this License Agreement, Google grants you a limited, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the SDK solely to develop applications to run on the Android platform.

dl here if u want it

http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html#download

Really?

So would you like to explain why google threatened cyanogen with legal action if they included the gapps on their ROMs? (They always advise to install those separate, the source code for CM doesn't contain those.

You can dl a gapp for your Samsung because google play recognizes that phone as a licensee device and allows the USER free access, because the OEM has already paid.

Infact, you see them free because you are an individual. Try being an enterprise and see if those gapps are actually free to you. Go ahead.
 

Timzer

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 10, 2011
334
0
You have no idea what your talking about,samsung makes its own custom os with the sdk tool android gives them.Google bought moto for its patents to fight against apple.

Um Samsung is already making its own os and guess what?its based on open source android.

how can google be its competitor when its the base for its os? without google/android there would not be Samsung.you do know Samsung has windows os and used syban before right.

unreal

wait do you somehow think Samsung is going to make a ground up os and leave android behind on the galaxy s4 when android has almost 80% world market share?Who is going to code apps for a new os that Samsung makes?some how you think that Samsung can make its own os and use the android app system and market that is coded to run on Linux based android

that's like you installing the new Blackberry market on your iphone and using specific BB apps or better yet installing the google playstore and somehow thinking the apps will run on ios

It's very well known that Samsung will be running it's brand new Linux based Tizen OS. Google has nothing to do with it. Samsung has always had it's own OS called Bada prior to this. But it was mainly for low to mid range phones. Bada is slowly being killed off. Well not really "Killed off." Its believed it will be slowly joined into the new Tizen OS. The fact that they are both Linux based has nothing to do with the fact they will be in competition. So yes Google's Android and Samsung's Tizen will be in direct competition.
Now by no means is Tizen gonna take over Samsung's line up. But 2013 will be a test bed for Samsung's new OS and unlike Bada, this OS is meant to run on high end devices. And yes it will be able to run Android apps through an ACL. This isn't breaking news.
 
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grkm3

macrumors 65816
Feb 12, 2013
1,049
568
Really?

So would you like to explain why google threatened cyanogen with legal action if they included the gapps on their ROMs? (They always advise to install those separate, the source code for CM doesn't contain those.

You can dl a gapp for your Samsung because google play recognizes that phone as a licensee device and allows the USER free access, because the OEM has already paid.

Infact, you see them free because you are an individual. Try being an enterprise and see if those gapps are actually free to you. Go ahead.

post some source with the bs you claim,you don't have to pay to use google maps,gmail or any other there services,go build a pc from scratch and and buy an oem barebone copy of windows 7 and then install it and then go log into any google service and see if you have to pay anything.

You do know cyanogen mod is hired by Samsung as a head software engineer for there os right?and if anything the reason gapps is not installed on his roms is because per the free license agreement you have to submit your roms to google to pass there minimum apk compatibility that google started doing to try to help solve fragmentation on the os.

You can build a device using a arm cortex arch and dl all the source code and apps,gapps,maps you name for free right off the google servers and you don't have to pay a dime to use it on your home made device.

now post where companies pay google to license there software like the claim you made in this thread.

If apple wanted to run the next iphone with android it would cost apple nothing to do so as its free open source code.
 

jeremiah256

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2008
1,444
1,169
Southern California
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Timzer

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 10, 2011
334
0
No is the short answer. No is the long answer.

Where us Sansung going to go if they leave Android? Windows? Samsung has to pay Microsoft licensing fees for windows while android is free. It will cut hugely info profit margins.

Why should that worry Google?

Actually Samsung's smartphone department is nothing without Google. They have no other OS to turn to. Windows Phone is no option as the whole "Choice" thing Samsung has used for their marketing would've been ruined be Microsoft and their (to this date) Sub-par OS.

And there are no other OS's, unless Samsung creates their own. Touchwiz considered that would be a horrific experiment.

Also, a company like HTC could easily take Samsung's place given the opportunity.

I don't think Google needs to worry. Barrier of entry is too high. You think developers are going to support a whole 'nother OS?

Google doesn't need to worry. Android department might but not Google. Google still makes more money from iOS Google searches and in app Google admob advertising then it does from Android. Even better googles total mobile revenue is a drop in the bucket compared to its total revenue....

Google has Motorola they don't need Samsung!

Google is concerned about their operating system exploding in adoption and popularity thanks to Samsung?

Please.


I'm quite surprised none of you even slightly thought Google had reason to be concerned. I really thought boards like this were made of people who had a little more understanding of the industry. ;)

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