Should I leave apple ecosystem in light of CSAM?

[wirtandi]

I am a new apple customer, recently joining from samsung and windows, now own iphone 12 and MBA M1. A number of factors made me move to apple, but two of the biggest ones are reliability and privacy.

And now the CSAM. I feel like i made the wrong move switching to apple.

Should I leave apple because of this CSAM thing?

 

[TheYayAreaLiving 🎗️]

At this time. Apple is postponing it. No need to worry.

 

[wirtandi]

At this time. Apple is postponing it. No need to worry.

Yeah....most likely because iphone 13 reveal is coming up soon.....

After that its quite likely they will continue with this

 

[keeper]

No, your other options are likely worse, if you had something the hide you wouldn’t use iCloud in the first place.

Enjoy your new products and forget about it.

 

[one more]

Android and Windows are not any better privacy-wise, if not worse. The irony of this situation is that if Apple does end up eventually implementing it, the other tech players are very likely to follow suit, so we might have more and more “protection” features introduced into all mainstream platforms and OS. I keep an eye on it, but for now an average user/customer does not really have any better choices. ??‍♂️

 

[Bluetoot-]

I’m not worried about this issue at all.

 

[wirtandi]

Android and Windows are not any better privacy-wise, if not worse. The irony of this situation is that if Apple does end up eventually implementing it, the other tech players are very likely to follow suit, so we might have more and more “protection” features introduced into all mainstream platforms and OS. I keep an eye on it, but for now an average user/customer does not really have any better choices. ??‍♂️

Wait, I thought microsoft, google, facebook, whatsapp, instagram, amazon, etc. all already do it? The difference being they dont say anything about it while apple at least tells us first?

 

[MozMan68]

At this time. Apple is postponing it. No need to worry.

Hah...postponing so it leaves your mind even more so than it already has over the past couple of weeks. Then it will be implemented without changes in the next few months and no significant amount of people will care then as well.

 

[Shirasaki]

Wait, I thought microsoft, google, facebook, whatsapp, instagram, amazon, etc. all already do it? The difference being they dont say anything about it while apple at least tells us first?

Everyone is doing it, and even if they say it, such "announcements" are buried inside EULA that nobody reads. Apple at least is attempting to address the announcement issue by preparing for a press release. However, neither of those companies are better than others in this CSAM regard.

Plus, agencies and courts can easily outlaw such announcements, and the general public will be left in the dark knowing nothing until someone blows the issue up (Snowden) or the consequence becomes too obvious hiding is no longer possible (just take a look at Jan/Feb 2020).

 

[sracer]

I am a new apple customer, recently joining from samsung and windows, now own iphone 12 and MBA M1. A number of factors made me move to apple, but two of the biggest ones are reliability and privacy.

And now the CSAM. I feel like i made the wrong move switching to apple.

Should I leave apple because of this CSAM thing?

Since you said that you made your purchase decision to buy Apple products based on their claims of better privacy and reliability, then yes... you made a mistake. Primarily because you paid a premium for something that you didn't receive.

There is no privacy anymore. There hasn't been any real privacy for at least the last 20-30 years. With regard to reliability, Apple's iPads are very reliable. Their iPhones, a bit less than that, and their notebooks... not so much. But personal experiences vary widely so one really needs to draw a conclusion on their reliability as a result of their own first-hand experience.

Having said that, there's no need to rush out and get rid of your iPhone and MBA. Use them. Enjoy them. Be careful about getting entrenched in the Apple ecosystem though, because it will make it more difficult for you to exit Appleland should you decide to.

I was only mildly connected to their ecosystem and it took a while to get to the point that I can leave with little to no difficulty.

 

[antiprotest]

Yeah....most likely because iphone 13 reveal is coming up soon.....

After that its quite likely they will continue with this

Also they probably delay it so more people just shrug and upgrade to iOS 15 and then Apple will flip the on switch and it'll be too late to downgrade. So unless the delay leads to cancellation, which I don't see happening at all, it makes no substantial difference except making time to let the issue blow over a bit. The move benefits only Apple.

 

[PeteBurgh]

This has been debated pretty extensively here, and there are some lengthy threads you might want to look at:

• https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...g-concerns-over-csam-detection-plans.2307422/
• https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...csam-detection-and-messages-scanning.2306957/
• https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...out-the-outrage-behind-csam-scanning.2307045/
• https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-to-not-use-the-dangerous-technology.2308132/
• https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...sam-detection-system-in-new-document.2307476/
• https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...xpanding-system-on-per-country-basis.2306746/

Personally, I understand why people are concerned, but I think asking tech companies to advance and protect our rights in this way is doomed to fail. If we want technologies like CSAM scanning to operate, we should ask our governments to require them, and if we do not (as I would prefer) we should ask our governments to prohibit them. I don’t think this is an issue that we can make progress on by voting with our wallets.

 

[mr_jomo]

For what it's worth I'm as "deep" in on Apple hardware as you (plus an iPad Pro and 4 homepod minis ?). Selling my Apple-driven IT-setup isn't financially sound or viable, as it's 100% needed for my job activities.

I agree with the general view point that privacy is no longer a differentiator for Apple only price, features and quality. That's without evaluating if the CSAM and iMessage child protection features are a benefit to me or not.

For now I'm staying on IOS 14 and Big Sur and will rely on Apple continuing their commitment to security patches for the next 4-5 years.

When my current Apple hardware fails, doesn't fit my needs, or gets sun-setted for security patches I'll evaluate Apple vs the competition on price x features x quality alone for any new purchases.

 

[MauiPa]

Definitely, you don’t want to get caught with kiddie porn, everyone doing that should definitely leave. (Well, truthfully, they should stop doing kiddie porn and turn themselves in and get counseling)

 

[Serban55]

I am a new apple customer, recently joining from samsung and windows, now own iphone 12 and MBA M1. A number of factors made me move to apple, but two of the biggest ones are reliability and privacy.

And now the CSAM. I feel like i made the wrong move switching to apple.

Should I leave apple because of this CSAM thing?

and you go where? to

 

[Serban55]

Android and Windows are not any better privacy-wise, if not worse. The irony of this situation is that if Apple does end up eventually implementing it, the other tech players are very likely to follow suit, so we might have more and more “protection” features introduced into all mainstream platforms and OS. I keep an eye on it, but for now an average user/customer does not really have any better choices. ??‍♂️

the others are already doing it since 2018 and 2019 respectively , Apple under pressure it will be among the last to join

 

[jseymour]

Since you said that you made your purchase decision to buy Apple products based on their claims of better privacy and reliability, then yes... you made a mistake. Primarily because you paid a premium for something that you didn't receive.

This ^^^^^

I was only mildly connected to their ecosystem and it took a while to get to the point that I can leave with little to no difficulty.

Depending upon one's definition of "mildly connected": That's where we were and are, too.

As somebody else pointed-out: There are already multiple extensive threads on this topic. In the end only you can decide for you. You can either live with what Apple's planning or you cannot. If you can: Then stay. If you can't: Then prepare to reverse course.

My wife and I cannot countenance it, so we'll be leaving if they deploy it.

 

[Serban55]

My wife and I cannot countenance it, so we'll be leaving if they deploy it.

If you are with Apple just because of privacy , then i agree, but if you are with apple for software and hardware then you go where? everywhere on Earth has privacy issues..so you fix nothing

 

[jseymour]

If you are with Apple just because of privacy , then i agree, but if you are with apple for software and hardware then you go where? everywhere on Earth has privacy issues..so you fix nothing

My point is why pay a premium (both in costs and restrictions) for something you're not actually getting?

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Android and Windows are not any better privacy-wise, if not worse. The irony of this situation is that if Apple does end up eventually implementing it, the other tech players are very likely to follow suit, so we might have more and more “protection” features introduced into all mainstream platforms and OS. I keep an eye on it, but for now an average user/customer does not really have any better choices. ??‍♂️

Disagree with this completely. With Android 12, and a lack of on-device scanning by Windows or Android, this is just not true.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

the others are already doing it since 2018 and 2019 respectively , Apple under pressure it will be among the last to join

No they are not. They don't scan on device.

 

[Jayson A]

Yes leave right now. Nobody is safe. All of your private content will be leaked onto the internet for everyone to see.

 

[keeper]

My point is why pay a premium (both in costs and restrictions) for something you're not actually getting?

Your getting it in functionality, build quality and resale value.
Your spied on android phone and pc will be worth little if you try and sell it.

 

[AJACs3]

I am a new apple customer, recently joining from samsung and windows, now own iphone 12 and MBA M1. A number of factors made me move to apple, but two of the biggest ones are reliability and privacy.

And now the CSAM. I feel like i made the wrong move switching to apple.

Should I leave apple because of this CSAM thing?

They would have only scanned on when uploading to iCloud photos. Don’t use iCloud photos, don’t get scanned. My understanding from articles and just some googling right now is that service providers like Amazon, google, and flickr scan for the same horrible stuff on their servers (rather than on your phone). IMO all apple was doing would be doing is offloading the compute power required to your personal device.

I mean, right now, any number of sites one uses could take any and all of your info and images and abuse it. I’m not sure how this instance is any different or a “bridge too far” for many people. Apple has a long history of pushing out computational tasks to your private device (like photo face recognition and now more and more Siri logic).

 

[eltoslightfoot]

They would have only scanned on when uploading to iCloud photos. Don’t use iCloud photos, don’t get scanned. My understanding from articles and just some googling right now is that service providers like Amazon, google, and flickr scan for the same horrible stuff on their servers (rather than on your phone). IMO all apple was doing would be doing is offloading the compute power required to your personal device.

I mean, right now, any number of sites one uses could take any and all of your info and images and abuse it. I’m not sure how this instance is any different or a “bridge too far” for many people. Apple has a long history of pushing out computational tasks to your private device (like photo face recognition and now more and more Siri logic).

Which is not right.