They all scan it at their end in the respective “clouds”, while Apple’s initially proposed system would be downloading a hash database onto our devices. This was partly the reason for the pushback. Everything put out in the cloud can be scanned, unless the company specifically tells us they do not.
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Should I leave apple ecosystem in light of CSAM?
- Thread starter wirtandi
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They all scan it at their end in the respective “clouds”, while Apple’s initially proposed system would be downloading a hash database onto our devices. This was partly the reason for the pushback. Everything put out in the cloud can be scanned, unless the company specifically tells us they do not.
Are you serious?
21 Windows 10 Privacy Settings to Change: Reclaim Your Privacy
Learn how to lock down your Windows 10 computer to maintain your privacy. We show you the top settings to change and how to do it.
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Literally every company scans everything you have in the cloud. Microsoft even scans all of your word files and whatnot for topics they don't agree with and will even ban your account if you're writing about something against their beliefs. And Google ... well Google is Google. Linux would be the only option as far as privacy, but again ... if you are using any cloud services you're right back in the same boat again. If you truly want privacy, disconnect yourself from all technology and the internet and go live in an Amish village.
Do they award a Nobel for logic? Because if so, you should win it easily.
In the year 2021, sracer discovered that one really needs to draw a conclusion on the reliability of a product by buying it and seeing for themselves. Statistics about millions of the same product in the wild are useless to those trying to ascertain the average reliability of the product, you just have to buy the thing and if it breaks then the reliability is bad
If that was their reasoning, I have to wonder what kind of disconnect caused them to believe many people wouldn't find that terrifically invasive?
Yeah, it did and, yeah, it was.
Exactly, I can change them.Are you serious?
21 Windows 10 Privacy Settings to Change: Reclaim Your Privacy
Learn how to lock down your Windows 10 computer to maintain your privacy. We show you the top settings to change and how to do it.
You can also turn off iCloud Photo Library.
It truest boggles my mind to see the way people, including Snowden himself, have misconstrued what is happening with CSAm and why on-device is good or bad.
yes, the other companies will do it in the cloud, without telling you. Why? Because they already do it and they already have a back door to your stored data.
why is it on device?
It’s on device because apple DOES NOT have a back door. Instead it’s a reporting system. Before the data in encrypted and uploaded it compares hashes of known CSAM with your data. If it finds kiddie porn, it flags it for review and likely sends and unencrypted version to human review. So what would you rather have? Your backups with a back door online, or your backups without a back door online. The fact it is on device is not simply a processing power offload. It’s because your device is the one that has the complete key pair to hash the photos and compare them.
This whole issue was really the nail in the coffin for my trust in “security” and “privacy” whistle blowers.
I value my privacy a lot. I also value my children a lot. I know that no manner of pleading “don’t invent technology X” is going to work, and I applaud apple for coming up with a solution that avoids the backdoor approach taken by everyone else.
The real kicker in all of this is that Apple has decided to become a whistleblower against child exploitation, which has met the ire of the whistleblowers against privacy. So the whistleblowers are blowing the whistle on the whistleblowers for being transparent about whistleblowing.
also, I think the right of children to not be exploited trumps the right of people to not be told on for exploiting children.
NO. Don't buy into the forum hype and pitch fork and torches crowd. If it's not CSAM detection, then it's on to the next thing to be outraged about. You'll be in a constant state of angst, paranoia, and dissatisfaction if you start swallowing all those pills.
My only advice would be to not get too locked down into the Apple ecosystem. I'm talking Computer, Watch, iPhone, iPad. If you think at some point you may leave, it will be much harder the more devices in you are. For instance the Apple Watch can only be used with the iPhone. As my iPhone XR is now three years old, I'm up for a new smartphone but now if I decide to deviate away from the iPhone, my watch will not work with it. At the same time, there really isn't anything about the new iPhones that compels me to buy one. So, I'm either sticking with the XR for at least another year or buying something else and then deciding if I want to try a different watch or just go back to a classic automatic.
I'm a little lost how Apple's plans around CSAM now suddenly means "Apple's promise of privacy is a joke" and "Yes, if you switched to Apple because of privacy, this is a proof that you are not getting it" kind of comments.
I feel like many people do not understand in just how many ways Apple does take user privacy seriously (did everyone forget things like differential privacy, tracking blocks that Facebook threw a fit about, and numerous other things?)
BTW, Gmail has been scanning for CSAM since 2008.
I feel like there has been some level-headed writing / editorials on this subject out there, but it seems like most just don't get it? I do think that very uncharacteristically for Apple, the messaging of this was pretty much a disaster.
appleinsider.com
I feel like many people do not understand in just how many ways Apple does take user privacy seriously (did everyone forget things like differential privacy, tracking blocks that Facebook threw a fit about, and numerous other things?)
BTW, Gmail has been scanning for CSAM since 2008.
I feel like there has been some level-headed writing / editorials on this subject out there, but it seems like most just don't get it? I do think that very uncharacteristically for Apple, the messaging of this was pretty much a disaster.
What you need to know: Apple's iCloud Photos and Messages child safety initiatives | AppleInsider
In the time since Apple announced its child safety iCloud Photos image assessment and Messages notifications, there haven't been any changes, but there have been many clarifications from the company on the subject. Here's what you need to know, updated on August 15 with everything Apple has said...
appleinsider.com
Apple just lost the ball on privacy. Apple is supposedly delaying the CSAM scanner, probably until after the holiday season so as not to hurt sales. That Apple didn't kill it outright is a worrying sign. The CSAM scanner is a massive violation of user privacy that undermines anything else Apple has claimed or done for user privacy.
Apple killed the notion of privacy across its entire ecosystem.
So that leaves you with reliability on your list of reasons to stay and how important it is for you.
Personally, if I were a fresh Apple user who wasn't tied to the platform and moved over because of privacy, I would immediately leave unless Apple completely disowned this mess, and the people who are responsible for it within Apple depart Apple.
As it is, I'm very much in the Apple ecosystem so I'm not digging deeper until the scanner effort is finally ended. No more iPhones, iPads, Apple Watches, Apple TVs, Macs or software updates for me. I'll be fine for several years like that. When the time comes to upgrade, I'll find an alternative.
Apple killed the notion of privacy across its entire ecosystem.
So that leaves you with reliability on your list of reasons to stay and how important it is for you.
Personally, if I were a fresh Apple user who wasn't tied to the platform and moved over because of privacy, I would immediately leave unless Apple completely disowned this mess, and the people who are responsible for it within Apple depart Apple.
As it is, I'm very much in the Apple ecosystem so I'm not digging deeper until the scanner effort is finally ended. No more iPhones, iPads, Apple Watches, Apple TVs, Macs or software updates for me. I'll be fine for several years like that. When the time comes to upgrade, I'll find an alternative.
Apple did not kill the notion of privacy. Your PII is protected. This type of CSAM scanning is done by major players as well ie google, Microsoft, facebook
And while I’m not happy about this I’m not throwing away (read: selling) my apple gear because of this. I plan on upgrading the family to iOS 15 and we’ll see where this goes.
My opinion is that this type of scanning will be adopted by other manufacturers, leaving those who want to opt-out some type of Linux type of phone.
There's no reason to ditch out of fear for your privacy. Likely this won't affect you, and even if it will, you can't stop it.
A reason to ditch is disgust in Apple's decision and unwillingness to support it. If you're not disgusted, I'd say stay. And if you leave, make sure whatever you move to isn't doing the same thing, cause they likely are.
A reason to ditch is disgust in Apple's decision and unwillingness to support it. If you're not disgusted, I'd say stay. And if you leave, make sure whatever you move to isn't doing the same thing, cause they likely are.
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I've defended Apple in most controversies. The Epic Games vs App Store thing, Intel to AS, the locked down ecosystem, every IP lawsuit against them, every IP lawsuit from them (especially Samsung), employee lawsuits, the iPhone 4 antenna bs, PPC to Intel... I criticized them about smaller technical decisions, that's all. I regularly tout their products as head and shoulders above the competition. I've been an avid Mac user since 2003 and a shareholder since 2008, and I'm sure others here have been both for longer.
This time they're blatantly crossing the boundary between a private company and mass state surveillance for no reason that I can understand. I'm not gonna tell everyone they have to ditch, but I'm done with the iPhone, and I'm gonna be done with the Mac too if they take more steps in this direction.
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I agree with many users here that other eco-systems are much much worse. I am sticking to Apple, their privacy policy is still the best
Yes I believe despite this whole CSAM thing their focus on privacy is still at least better than the competition. And the ecosystem is really not too bad now that I have tried using it. The seamless integration between everything makes life easy.
Google's entire business model is to track your every move over the internet and send you ads based on your personality and you're concerned that Apple might just do a quick check to see if you have uploaded any known child porn cause 'privacy!' That's funny!
That's simply untrue. This is exactly what I'm talking about - you've clearly bought into the conspiracy theory stuff surrounding this. ALL they're wanting to do is scan for illegal imagery (which is not protected by the Constitution as free speech) to prevent people from uploading it to iCloud, because that's a violation of the TOS. If you don't like that, then you can disable iCloud for photos. If you think Apple is going to "hand the keys over" to governments to abuse this system, then what's your evidence for this? Do you have a secret recording of Apple execs discussing this with top government officials or something? What motive would Apple have for doing so? Heck, they wouldn't even give the FBI their way to give them access to a terrorist's iPhone. Now you think they're suddenly going to lie down and be walked all over? I don't think so.