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firelighter487

macrumors 6502
Apr 30, 2014
385
238
The Netherlands
I think one of the issues is the Spectre/Meltdown attacks. Apple still needs to mitigate for these flaws in software, which I expect slows down MacOS considerably in some situations. Ditching support for Intel cpus older than 8th generation, when the first hardware mitigations appeared, would help them get rid of some of this OS crud.
i think that's BS. my pc (4670K), Mac Pro (2x E5462) and Gaming laptop (7700HQ) are all older than 8th gen and running modern OS's, be it Windows or Linux in case of the Mac Pro, and all are fine.
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
soon High sierra will be oof, because browsers have already announced dropping support for it.

Oof? That won't stop me from using High Sierra for my daily workflow and there's several browsers available within this very community that will continue to support it so I won't be losing out. I managed fine with Snow Leopard on my daily driver up till 2018. :)

besides that, what i mostly meant is that you can install Windows 11 on basically any computer from 2006 or newer, with one tick of a checkbox in rufus. that's MUCH easier than running patchers and custom opencore stuff.

Ok, fair enough. The DosDude patchers are pretty straight-forward from my experience so I've got no complaints there. Getting El Capitan, Yosemite and Mavericks to work on my Mac Pro was easy once I devised my own route. The greatest hindrance had been the confusing instructions which proliferate the net.

it should if Windows still includes 32-bit EFI, idk if they do though. you'd need to check that. you can also install Windows 11 with legacy boot just fine. Microsoft says you need UEFI but they are lying, Windows 11 (with that checkbox in rufus ticked) installs on MBR/legacy just fine.

Thanks, I'll give it a go and post back with the outcome. :)

I honestly think cannot think of a single good reason why the first 64-bit Macs still used a 32-bit EFI. The latest PC's at the time were full 64-bit, and just 9 months later Apple did it, but why couldn't they do it earlier? My working theory is that they just couldn't be bothered to update it.

It certainly fits.

Going from the bigger picture view here, I can kind of see why Apple doesn't want to support our older machines. At the end of the day, it comes down to money. (Not from forcing people to buy new machines though)

Obviously, quite a few older machines (eg: the 5,1 MP and other machines from 2012-2015 once they have been upgraded with SSD's, more RAM, Metal-capable GPUs for the MP...) can run Ventura and other new releases of macOS just as good as any of the last-gen Intel Macs with OpenCore Legacy Patcher. The same can be said for machines from the Penryn-Sandy Bridge era.

Here, most of us know how to use a patcher, know the risks involved, and can troubleshoot issues if they arise. However, when the average consumer (not very tech-savvy in terms of using "hack" tools) sees that their old machine can run a new OS (that supports modern apps and services out of the box), they will most likely go and install it without doing the necessary research (i.e: mech drives vs SSD / Metal support).

In some cases, they already have an SSD, and a Metal-capable GPU, however in other cases they don't have either. Which can lead to an unpredictable experience. It may work fine enough (up to their standards), or it could be borderline unusable.

That concept can be applied to if Apple decided to let older machines run the newest macOS natively (or supported the use of patchers). The cost of supporting older machines that may or may not work well on the latest releases is probably not worth the amount of users in the bigger picture who want to run the latest macOS on older hardware.

For most people in that situation, running Windows 10 or some Linux distro is the much better option, given hardware compatibility is typically more lenient.

I understand your point but Apple is wealthier than many nations. They're a million miles from the days of Jobs and Wozniak selling the Apple-1 in kit form. They could provide the likes of in-house patchers and other support and financially, it wouldn't even amount to a drop in the ocean. It would, however, reap massive PR kudos - which would translate into further sales because consumers would be more inclined to return to Apple for further purchases. It doesn't take much to look after the people who support you financially and a little bit of goodwill goes a long way in this regard.

Contrast that with the bitterness of seeing your computer abandoned in hardly no time at all by its manufacturer. They'll look elsewhere and they'll encourage prospective customers to do the same. Speaking of which...

Side-note here: Ditching support for the 2016 MBP with the release of Ventura is just plain stupid. No further words needed.

Great way to treat your customers and create bad publicity for yourselves, eh?

Well, the average users in my circle of friends - or rather my wifes circle of friends - do not update their OSs anyway. 😁

Or even understand what an operating system is in the first place. :D

(Thinking of my friend who had 8k viruses on their WinBox and blamed me for not securing his computer.)

i think that's BS. my pc (4670K), Mac Pro (2x E5462) and Gaming laptop (7700HQ) are all older than 8th gen and running modern OS's, be it Windows or Linux in case of the Mac Pro, and all are fine.

Agreed. The CPUs in the first and second generation Mac Pros aren't even affected by Spectre and Meltdown.
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,787
12,187

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
Firefox still supports "low" Sierra as of today.

I don't use Google Chrome on my Mac anyway. Firefox can remain my web navigator. (I wonder how many people got that historic call back.)

I need help. I read "8k viruses" and thought "WTF? Viruses at 8K rez?!?!?!" 🤪

Sorry for the confusion. A friend's PC was infected with eight thousand viruses. Even though he and I live in different households, in different boroughs of London, I was still held responsible for my negligence as a friend in failing to maintain the security of his computer.

When AVG reached the figure of hundreds, I already had a WTF expression. When it started counting into the thousands, I transitioned from chastising to stunned silence.

a82f8f66135d69f8410d14152c8d8ca5a72e7d65.gif
 

theMarble

macrumors 65816
Sep 27, 2020
1,019
1,496
Earth, Sol System, Alpha Quadrant
Meanwhile, the community behind Chromium Legacy for macOS/OS X as far back as 10.7 continue to build current versions of the Chromium browser.
Would it be possible to back-port a version of CL for Snow Leopard? Obviously some features would have to be recompiled using older API's and such, but in theory would it be possible?

The browser landscape for Snow Leopard is getting worse in terms of compatibility with modern websites compared to Lion and newer.
 
Would it be possible to back-port a version of CL for Snow Leopard? Obviously some features would have to be recompiled using older API's and such, but in theory would it be possible?

The browser landscape for Snow Leopard is getting worse in terms of compatibility with modern websites compared to Lion and newer.

Let me find the post… ah, here we are.

Start with that post, then work your way up that thread, via the links in the “[user] said: ⤣” segments.
 

theMarble

macrumors 65816
Sep 27, 2020
1,019
1,496
Earth, Sol System, Alpha Quadrant
Let me find the post… ah, here we are.

Start with that post, then work your way up that thread, via the links in the “[user] said: ⤣” segments.
Well that clears that up now. Thanks for sharing that!

I didn't realise how much was added in Lion! Just going off of the unavailable API's list, it shows that it's trying to go off of 10.6.0. I wonder if any of it would be there in 10.6.8 (if there is any)? I don't know if you can target 10.6.8 directly though, or if it's just 10.6, 10.7, 10.8...
 
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Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,787
12,187
Sorry for the confusion. A friend's PC was infected with eight thousand viruses.
Your statement was clear, it was my brain that saw “8K” and took the wrong path.

I had to deal with someone else’s system too once. I got to pick my poison: glaringly incorrect configuration — don’t install drivers for Win2k on ME, bud —, tons of viruses, tons of “adult entertainment.”
 

2aw

Suspended
Apr 27, 2023
58
22
it's very easy. if you make a windows 11 install usb using Rufus you can just tell it to bypass all the TPM and secure boot BS.

image.png

Excellent.

However I still don't have an 8+ gen intel cpu on my laptop though, is there a way to bypass that requirement?
 

misterminibus

macrumors member
Aug 6, 2012
63
13
Isle of Man
Sorry for the confusion. A friend's PC was infected with eight thousand viruses. Even though he and I live in different households, in different boroughs of London, I was still held responsible for my negligence as a friend in failing to maintain the security of his computer.
At the end of the day we are all responsible for ensuring our own safety online and not blaming or holding anyone else responsible
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
At the end of the day we are all responsible for ensuring our own safety online and not blaming or holding anyone else responsible

Of course, but he didn't see it that way, unsurprisingly. As most of us are no doubt aware from experience, there is often a sense of entitlement among elements of the less tech-savvy that those with the relevant skills should be at their beck and call to deal with problems and there's no obligation on their part to become IT proficient - because we exist.
 

Romain_H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2021
520
438
Of course, but he didn't see it that way, unsurprisingly. As most of us are no doubt aware from experience, there is often a sense of entitlement among elements of the less tech-savvy that those with the relevant skills should be at their beck and call to deal with problems and there's no obligation on their part to become IT proficient - because we exist.
Just curious: what exactly was your wrongdoing?
 

MultiFinder17

macrumors 68030
Jan 8, 2008
2,739
2,084
Tampa, Florida
Of course, but he didn't see it that way, unsurprisingly. As most of us are no doubt aware from experience, there is often a sense of entitlement among elements of the less tech-savvy that those with the relevant skills should be at their beck and call to deal with problems and there's no obligation on their part to become IT proficient - because we exist.
It's both a blessing and a curse - I committed the cardinal sin of of knowing anything about computers when I started teaching in my school of letting anyone know that I know anything about computers. Now I get teachers calling in the middle of my own classes asking if I can come by and fix their projector or something.

"No, I have a class of my own right now."
"Well can you come on your planning period?"
"Uh, no?"

Reminds me of one of my favorite lines from Fallout 3, when you ask Scribe Rothchild to repair something for you.
"Can I? Yes. Will I? No."
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
I see, but what exactly did he expect?

He expected me to maintain his computer and accept the responsibilities that come with that expectation. Hence, if it's ridden with viruses then it's my fault for failing to protect it.

Thinks like this keep amazing me 🤭

It's both a blessing and a curse - I committed the cardinal sin of of knowing anything about computers when I started teaching in my school of letting anyone know that I know anything about computers. Now I get teachers calling in the middle of my own classes asking if I can come by and fix their projector or something.

"No, I have a class of my own right now."
"Well can you come on your planning period?"
"Uh, no?"

This, is why I've reached the stage where I refrain from mentioning my computer skills during general conversations because I ended up being inundated with requests for help that go to the extremes - such as sorting stuff out for others whilst I'm literally about to leave the country.

I don't mind helping others: on the contrary it's something that I enjoy - within reason. It has been my experience and I'm sure that I'm not alone - that there are many people with an attitude of "I'm not interested in learning how or why this works or what I need to do in future when this situation arises. I just want you to come over and take care of it for me every single time."

Worst still, they're too self-absorbed to offer the most token gesture of payment for what is work.

That, is not cool.
 
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