Show off your Early Intel Macs!

[firelighter487]

idk if these count, especially the MacBook Pro but hey it's pre-retina so i think it does.

pictured here are my 2008 Mac Pro, and Late 2011 15" MBP.

let's discuss the Mac Pro first.

as you can see it's not the prettiest, it's got it's fair share of scratches. i bought it along with another 2008 MP for €25 each from a seller who listed both as faulty. the other one not pictured here is very faulty. it boots but is extremely unstable and doesn't stay on for longer than 5 minutes without crashing and turning off.

this one is better. it has some faults, for example one ram stick doesn't get detected sometimes, but that difference is between 21gb and 22gb of ram so i don't really mind. the other fault is more annoying, any remotely modern version of macOS just gets spit out by this system. the Catalina patcher doesn't even boot to the installer. i can get to the Big Sur, Monterey and Ventura installers with OCLP, but i can't install any of them. they all get about halfway through, crash and reboot back into the installer.

however Linux installs and boots fine, and is rock solid stable. here's detailed specs of this Mac in it's current configuration:

now, on to my poor 2011 15" MacBook Pro...

this Mac is also faulty, too faulty to run macOS reliably. so once again, Linux saves the day. the issue with this Mac as some of you would have already seen from the neofetch, is radeongate. this Mac's gpu failed years ago, and it hasn't ran macOS reliable since. no matter what i install, i always get random crashes and weird power management behavior. it'll randomly wake itself up, crash, reboot and then cook in my backpack for example.

but again, Linux solves all of these problems. it ignores the dead gpu and also doesn't suffer from weird power management. i really love this macbook and i'm so happy Linux was able to save it and still make it somewhat usable.

as you can see from the picture it's not perfect, the display has started failing as you can see by the lines through the screen. but, for just browsing forums and stuff like that it's still fine to use. once the display totally dies i'll probably repurpose it as a minecraft server or something, it's got plenty of power left in it after all.

another interesting fact is that this Mac has it's original battery. it's at over 900 cycles but still lasts for 2 hours if i'm careful and turn off the keyboard lights.



so there you have it. 2 early intel Mac's too faulty to run macOS reliably in any way, but saved by Linux, both still in use and going strong.

 

[TheShortTimer]

idk if these count, especially the MacBook Pro but hey it's pre-retina so i think it does.

Rest assured, they definitely count as early Intel's.

 

[MultiFinder17]

It's been a good while, so I wanted to document the early Intels still in use in my classroom. The four still in daily use are a 2008 15" MBP, a 2009 mini, a 2010 27" iMac, and a 2012 mini.

Late 2008 MacBook Pro 15" - 2.53GHz C2D, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD, High Sierra
This machine serves as my main rig while up in front of the class. I can remote into any computer in the room from it, manage my student's notebooks, and do attendance. It's a solid, ancient machine and I enjoy pointing out to my students that it's older than any of them. It's in fantastic shape for its age, and I so love using it. I've debated for the last year or so replacing it with my 2011, which is objectively better in basically every way, but I can't bring myself to stop using the old girl.


Early 2009 Mac mini - 2.0GHz C2D, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD + 1TB HDD, High Sierra
This is my classroom server. It runs my lab management software so that I can control the student machines as well as providing Time Machine backups and central file storage for all the Macs in my room. It runs headless, and I remote into it from other machines to access the lab management software. I've had one of these Macs since I bought mine new in 2009, and am quite pleased that I've been able to get 14 years of useful life out of these machines.


Mid 2010 iMac 27" - 2.93GHz i7, 32GB RAM, 240GB SSD, OCLP Monterey
This machine lives in my office off the side of my classroom. It's mostly used for YouTube at lunch and planning after school. I love the giant screen on this beast, and it's the machine that got me addicted to 27" iMacs. It used to be my old roommate's machine, and he gave it to me several years ago knowing that while he had outgrown it, I have a bit of a thing for pushing old machines well past their expiration dates.


Late 2012 Mac mini - 2.5GHz i5, 16GB RAM, 240GB SSD + 750GB HDD, OCLP Monterey
The second machine on my desk, this computer runs two additional screens to get a total of 5 screens on my desk (2 on the mini, three on my main iMac). It works perfectly with Universal Control so that I can use a single keyboard and mouse across all five screens.

 

[TheShortTimer]

@MultiFinder17 Fantastic and from one Star Trek fan to another, live long and prosper.

 

[B S Magnet]

It's been a good while, so I wanted to document the early Intels still in use in my classroom. The four still in daily use are a 2008 15" MBP, a 2009 mini, a 2010 27" iMac, and a 2012 mini.

Late 2008 MacBook Pro 15" - 2.53GHz C2D, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD, High Sierra
This machine serves as my main rig while up in front of the class. I can remote into any computer in the room from it, manage my student's notebooks, and do attendance. It's a solid, ancient machine and I enjoy pointing out to my students that it's older than any of them. It's in fantastic shape for its age, and I so love using it. I've debated for the last year or so replacing it with my 2011, which is objectively better in basically every way, but I can't bring myself to stop using the old girl.
View attachment 2189882 View attachment 2189883 View attachment 2189884 View attachment 2189885 View attachment 2189886 View attachment 2189887

Early 2009 Mac mini - 2.0GHz C2D, 8GB RAM, 240GB SSD + 1TB HDD, High Sierra
This is my classroom server. It runs my lab management software so that I can control the student machines as well as providing Time Machine backups and central file storage for all the Macs in my room. It runs headless, and I remote into it from other machines to access the lab management software. I've had one of these Macs since I bought mine new in 2009, and am quite pleased that I've been able to get 14 years of useful life out of these machines.
View attachment 2189880 View attachment 2189889

Mid 2010 iMac 27" - 2.93GHz i7, 32GB RAM, 240GB SSD, OCLP Monterey
This machine lives in my office off the side of my classroom. It's mostly used for YouTube at lunch and planning after school. I love the giant screen on this beast, and it's the machine that got me addicted to 27" iMacs. It used to be my old roommate's machine, and he gave it to me several years ago knowing that while he had outgrown it, I have a bit of a thing for pushing old machines well past their expiration dates.
View attachment 2189894

Late 2012 Mac mini - 2.5GHz i5, 16GB RAM, 240GB SSD + 750GB HDD, OCLP Monterey
The second machine on my desk, this computer runs two additional screens to get a total of 5 screens on my desk (2 on the mini, three on my main iMac). It works perfectly with Universal Control so that I can use a single keyboard and mouse across all five screens.
View attachment 2189890 View attachment 2189891

I’m all here for that late 2008 MBP action (and also that mid-2010 iMac 27, which is just beautiful to see, still in 2023, in a classroom setting).

 

[MultiFinder17]

I’m all here for that late 2008 MBP action (and also that mid-2010 iMac 27, which is just beautiful to see, still in 2023, in a classroom setting).

I legit can’t bring myself to replace the 2008 15”. Every time I think it’s time it becomes almost more of a challenge to myself to keep it in service - I wanna see how long I can get out of it at this point! Given that it’s main tasks are remoting into other computers, I’m guessing quite a while still.

That 2010 27” iMac is a beast. It’s an amazingly powerful machine for my uses even 13 years on, and runs like a dream still. Legit the only thing I’m not the biggest fan of with it is how much heat it pumps out - my office is small, and that first-gen quad i7 and Radeon can noticeably warm up the little room if I’m doing anything more intense than PowerPoint. That aside though, it’s really a fantastic computer! At some point I’ll try Ventura on it - with OCLP I tend to stay a major version behind just to avoid the odd little incompatibilities.

My main computer in my classroom is a 2020 27” iMac with a 3.3GHz i5, 64GB RAM and 512GB SSD running Monterey, and I honestly find the older machines perfectly acceptable for the basics of classroom productivity even with that in comparison. Is the 2020 faster? Of course, but there’s something delightful about using these old machines far past their expiration date in most peoples eyes.

 

[TheShortTimer]

...there’s something delightful about using these old machines far past their expiration date in most peoples eyes.

That's pretty much the driving philosophy of this and the PPC forum.

Much to chagrin of the retail/computer industry, computer hardware has reached the point where machines from over a decade ago continue to hold up well and remain viable in countless areas - as you've demonstrated brilliantly.

 

[MultiFinder17]

That's pretty much the driving philosophy of this and the PPC forum.

Much to chagrin of the retail/computer industry, computer hardware has reached the point where machines from over a decade ago continue to hold up well and remain viable in countless areas - as you've demonstrated brilliantly.

Indeed, it’s a large part why I spend most of my time on these forums in here and the PPC forum!

It really is impressive how older machines hold up in terms of performance in the modern day. I take in old laptops from teachers, refurb them by stuffing them with RAM and throwing a cheap SSD in them, then give them away to other teachers that need a computer to hook to their projectors or something. For light productivity, PowerPoint, and the occasional YouTube video an old C2D is more than enough.

I always enjoy giving these machines another lease on life and keeping them out of the e-waste bins.

 

[natus.w]

My little duo (2009 iMac 11,1, 2007 MacBook 2,1)

 

[firelighter487]

2007 MacBook 2,1)

you might want this for the macbook https://github.com/blueboxd/chromium-legacy

up to date browser for 10.7

 

[TheShortTimer]

you might want this for the macbook https://github.com/blueboxd/chromium-legacy

up to date browser for 10.7

There's also the up-to-date SeaLion browser for 10.7 onwards. Thanks to the eternal trooper @wicknix

 

[natus.w]

you might want this for the macbook https://github.com/blueboxd/chromium-legacy

up to date browser for 10.7

Already have that installed, but switched to PaleMoon (seems to be slightly lighter in weight)

 

[chaosbunny]

Much to chagrin of the retail/computer industry, computer hardware has reached the point where machines from over a decade ago continue to hold up well and remain viable in countless areas - as you've demonstrated brilliantly.

That can't be replied often enough. I need my 16" 2019 mbp for editing 4k/6k videos since that's my job, but for watching youtube and netflix my older Macs are just as good. It's also more relaxing to use my 2010 MacBook on the couch or in bed or with my daughter, since I don't have to worry so much about droping it or spilling something on it. Obviously I still try not to do that and take care of it.

It's always great to read the stories in this thread and the "what have you done with" thread so thanks @everyone!

 

[firelighter487]

Much to chagrin of the retail/computer industry, computer hardware has reached the point where machines from over a decade ago continue to hold up well and remain viable in countless areas - as you've demonstrated brilliantly.

for sure. i mean, on the Windows side too. my main pc has a 4670K, a 10 year old cpu. with a modest overclock (4.3ghz all core) and paired with a GTX 1060 this thing still runs games like Overwatch on max settings no problem at all.

that's kinda why i've shifted to liking PC more than Apple. Apple makes it so darn difficult to keep using an old machine. my 10 year old pc runs Windows 11 with no issues at all, despite not meeting the minimun requirements. Windows 11 requires 8th gen intel as far as i know, but that's easily bypassed. after that it runs Windows 11 like any brand new computer would.

 

[chaosbunny]

for sure. i mean, on the Windows side too. my main pc has a 4670K, a 10 year old cpu. with a modest overclock (4.3ghz all core) and paired with a GTX 1060 this thing still runs games like Overwatch on max settings no problem at all.

that's kinda why i've shifted to liking PC more than Apple. Apple makes it so darn difficult to keep using an old machine. my 10 year old pc runs Windows 11 with no issues at all, despite not meeting the minimun requirements. Windows 11 requires 8th gen intel as far as i know, but that's easily bypassed. after that it runs Windows 11 like any brand new computer would.

Absolutely. When it comes to towers it's even more true than laptops or Apples closed systems. I'm currently playing A Plague Tale Requiem from late 2022 on my Mac Pro at 2560x1440 on high settings. Even for gaming you don't have to upgrade that often anymore.

I need to investigate updating my Mac Pro to Windows 11 at some point. Just reluctant to do so, not really my idea of "fun". I rather play with my old Macs than mess with Windows.

 

[firelighter487]

I need to investigate updating my Mac Pro to Windows 11 at some point. Just reluctant to do so

it's very easy. if you make a windows 11 install usb using Rufus you can just tell it to bypass all the TPM and secure boot BS.

 

[TheShortTimer]

That can't be replied often enough. I need my 16" 2019 mbp for editing 4k/6k videos since that's my job, but for watching youtube and netflix my older Macs are just as good. It's also more relaxing to use my 2010 MacBook on the couch or in bed or with my daughter, since I don't have to worry so much about droping it or spilling something on it. Obviously I still try not to do that and take care of it.

It's always great to read the stories in this thread and the "what have you done with" thread so thanks @everyone!

Also thanks to you for being part of that.

that's kinda why i've shifted to liking PC more than Apple. Apple makes it so darn difficult to keep using an old machine. my 10 year old pc runs Windows 11 with no issues at all, despite not meeting the minimun requirements. Windows 11 requires 8th gen intel as far as i know, but that's easily bypassed. after that it runs Windows 11 like any brand new computer would.

My annoyance with Apple on this front has been expressed in several threads/posts. There was the episode with my iMac G3 - it runs Tiger without a hitch but Apple officially prevented it from doing so. Likewise with my Mac Pro which is officially restricted to Lion because of its 32 bit EFI but members of the Mac community provided these machines with an upgrade path as far as El Capitan but an organisation with the resources of Apple could not - or rather, would not. Then there's my 2010 MacBook Air whose official support ends with High Sierra but with tweaks, Catalina runs like a champ.

Rather than provide extra features on their more expensive range, Apple blocked access to existing hardware capabilities on their cheaper models in order to push buyers towards the purchasing the former. They sell computers with non-upgradable RAM, glued batteries, HDDs that were 5400RPM when they should've been 7200RPM as standard, considering the high cost. The same goes for the RAM configurations.

Despite Apple's glaring unhelpfulness, it's not that difficult to continue using an old machine - as is demonstrated in the PPC forum on a daily basis and with Intel Macs, workarounds or hacks are nearly always available to defeat what are very often, artificially imposed restrictions. On a daily basis, there's nothing within my productivity workflow that I'm unable to accomplish with High Sierra and a 2011 Mac.

I need to investigate updating my Mac Pro to Windows 11 at some point. Just reluctant to do so, not really my idea of "fun". I rather play with my old Macs than mess with Windows.

it's very easy. if you make a windows 11 install usb using Rufus you can just tell it to bypass all the TPM and secure boot BS.

Will this work with a Mac Pro 1,1 despite the EFI issue?

 

[chaosbunny]

it's very easy. if you make a windows 11 install usb using Rufus you can just tell it to bypass all the TPM and secure boot BS.

Thank you very much! Looks easy indeed. Didn't know about Rufus and bookmarked it for later use.

My annoyance with Apple on this front has been expressed in several threads/posts. There was the episode with my iMac G3 - it runs Tiger without a hitch but Apple officially prevented it from doing so. Likewise with my Mac Pro which is officially restricted to Lion because of its 32 bit EFI but members of the Mac community provided these machines with an upgrade path as far as El Capitan but an organisation with the resources of Apple could not - or rather, would not. Then there's my 2010 MacBook Air whose official support ends with High Sierra but with tweaks, Catalina runs like a champ.

Rather than provide extra features on their more expensive range, Apple blocked access to existing hardware capabilities on their cheaper models in order to push buyers towards the purchasing the former. They sell computers with non-upgradable RAM, glued batteries, HDDs that were 5400RPM when they should've been 7200RPM as standard, considering the high cost. The same goes for the RAM configurations.

Despite Apple's glaring unhelpfulness, it's not that difficult to continue using an old machine - as is demonstrated in the PPC forum on a daily basis and with Intel Macs, workarounds or hacks are nearly always available to defeat what are very often, artificially imposed restrictions. On a daily basis, there's nothing within my productivity workflow that I'm unable to accomplish with High Sierra and a 2011 Mac.

In my opinion Apple could just say an older Mac will run Montery but only with SSD and 16gb memory. Like they did with the 5,1 Mac Pro which officially could run 10.14 but only with a Radeon 580. Enthusiasts will do it anyway and regular users won't bother. It annoys me too, especially when a companies PR claims they are oh so green but in reality they act quite differently.

 

[TheShortTimer]

It annoys me too, especially when a companies PR claims they are oh so green but in reality they act quite differently.

A serious legal challenge needs to be mounted but United States V. Microsoft Corp. didn't really moderate the behaviour at Redmond...

 

[firelighter487]

Despite Apple's glaring unhelpfulness, it's not that difficult to continue using an old machine - as is demonstrated in the PPC forum on a daily basis and with Intel Macs, workarounds or hacks are nearly always available to defeat what are very often, artificially imposed restrictions. On a daily basis, there's nothing within my productivity workflow that I'm unable to accomplish with High Sierra and a 2011 Mac.

soon High sierra will be oof, because browsers have already announced dropping support for it. besides that, what i mostly meant is that you can install Windows 11 on basically any computer from 2006 or newer, with one tick of a checkbox in rufus. that's MUCH easier than running patchers and custom opencore stuff.

Will this work with a Mac Pro 1,1 despite the EFI issue?

it should if Windows still includes 32-bit EFI, idk if they do though. you'd need to check that. you can also install Windows 11 with legacy boot just fine. Microsoft says you need UEFI but they are lying, Windows 11 (with that checkbox in rufus ticked) installs on MBR/legacy just fine.

Thank you very much! Looks easy indeed. Didn't know about Rufus and bookmarked it for later use.

yeah it's fantastic. as someone who lives mostly on Windows recently it's a godsend of a tool to have.

In my opinion Apple could just say an older Mac will run Montery but only with SSD and 16gb memory. Like they did with the 5,1 Mac Pro which officially could run 10.14 but only with a Radeon 580. Enthusiasts will do it anyway and regular users won't bother. It annoys me too, especially when a companies PR claims they are oh so green but in reality they act quite differently.

Apple could allow lots of things, like nvidia cards. it's amazing to me that particularly with those older Mac Pro's, if you install Windows (or linux) on one, you can use whatever gpu you like, run the latest OS updates and even play games very well. Apple just nukes all of that fo rno reason other than to force you to buy a new machine.

i still have an 8-core 3,1 in service, with dual SSD's, HD 7770, 22GB of ram it still performs very well. i have to run Linux on it to have any hope of a stable modern OS though which is annoying. i can't install Windows due to the boot screen issue with a third party GPU which is also ********, that's another thing apple blocked on purpose to entice you buying new GPU's from them specifically.

 

[Amethyst1]

[...] it's amazing to me that particularly with those older Mac Pro's, if you install Windows (or linux) on one, you can use whatever gpu you like, run the latest OS updates and even play games very well. [...]

And is this where the Intel switch saves us, or rather our old Macs. You can run *BSD, Linux, and MorphOS on PPC too but having an architecture everyone supports has its merits (and downsides too).

 

[theMarble]

Likewise with my Mac Pro which is officially restricted to Lion because of its 32 bit EFI but members of the Mac community provided these machines with an upgrade path as far as El Capitan but an organisation with the resources of Apple could not - or rather, would not. Then there's my 2010 MacBook Air whose official support ends with High Sierra but with tweaks, Catalina runs like a champ.

I honestly think cannot think of a single good reason why the first 64-bit Macs still used a 32-bit EFI. The latest PC's at the time were full 64-bit, and just 9 months later Apple did it, but why couldn't they do it earlier? My working theory is that they just couldn't be bothered to update it.

Going from the bigger picture view here, I can kind of see why Apple doesn't want to support our older machines. At the end of the day, it comes down to money. (Not from forcing people to buy new machines though)

Obviously, quite a few older machines (eg: the 5,1 MP and other machines from 2012-2015 once they have been upgraded with SSD's, more RAM, Metal-capable GPUs for the MP...) can run Ventura and other new releases of macOS just as good as any of the last-gen Intel Macs with OpenCore Legacy Patcher. The same can be said for machines from the Penryn-Sandy Bridge era.

Here, most of us know how to use a patcher, know the risks involved, and can troubleshoot issues if they arise. However, when the average consumer (not very tech-savvy in terms of using "hack" tools) sees that their old machine can run a new OS (that supports modern apps and services out of the box), they will most likely go and install it without doing the necessary research (i.e: mech drives vs SSD / Metal support).

In some cases, they already have an SSD, and a Metal-capable GPU, however in other cases they don't have either. Which can lead to an unpredictable experience. It may work fine enough (up to their standards), or it could be borderline unusable.

That concept can be applied to if Apple decided to let older machines run the newest macOS natively (or supported the use of patchers). The cost of supporting older machines that may or may not work well on the latest releases is probably not worth the amount of users in the bigger picture who want to run the latest macOS on older hardware.

For most people in that situation, running Windows 10 or some Linux distro is the much better option, given hardware compatibility is typically more lenient.

Side-note here: Ditching support for the 2016 MBP with the release of Ventura is just plain stupid. No further words needed.

 

[chaosbunny]

However, when the average consumer (not very tech-savvy in terms of using "hack" tools) sees that their old machine can run a new OS (that supports modern apps and services out of the box), they will most likely go and install it without doing the necessary research (i.e: mech drives vs SSD / Metal support).

Well, the average users in my circle of friends - or rather my wifes circle of friends - do not update their OSs anyway. 😁

 

[Amethyst1]

I honestly think cannot think of a single good reason why the first 64-bit Macs still used a 32-bit EFI.

The 2006/2007 Mac Pro is an exception since it was a totally new design yet shipped with 32-bit EFI, but the other initial Core 2 Duo Macs were identical to their Core Solo/Duo predecessors apart from the CPU. So they received a new CPU and that was it.

 

[uller6]

I honestly think cannot think of a single good reason why the first 64-bit Macs still used a 32-bit EFI. The latest PC's at the time were full 64-bit, and just 9 months later Apple did it, but why couldn't they do it earlier? My working theory is that they just couldn't be bothered to update it.

Going from the bigger picture view here, I can kind of see why Apple doesn't want to support our older machines. At the end of the day, it comes down to money. (Not from forcing people to buy new machines though)

Obviously, quite a few older machines (eg: the 5,1 MP and other machines from 2012-2015 once they have been upgraded with SSD's, more RAM, Metal-capable GPUs for the MP...) can run Ventura and other new releases of macOS just as good as any of the last-gen Intel Macs with OpenCore Legacy Patcher. The same can be said for machines from the Penryn-Sandy Bridge era.

Here, most of us know how to use a patcher, know the risks involved, and can troubleshoot issues if they arise. However, when the average consumer (not very tech-savvy in terms of using "hack" tools) sees that their old machine can run a new OS (that supports modern apps and services out of the box), they will most likely go and install it without doing the necessary research (i.e: mech drives vs SSD / Metal support).

In some cases, they already have an SSD, and a Metal-capable GPU, however in other cases they don't have either. Which can lead to an unpredictable experience. It may work fine enough (up to their standards), or it could be borderline unusable.

That concept can be applied to if Apple decided to let older machines run the newest macOS natively (or supported the use of patchers). The cost of supporting older machines that may or may not work well on the latest releases is probably not worth the amount of users in the bigger picture who want to run the latest macOS on older hardware.

For most people in that situation, running Windows 10 or some Linux distro is the much better option, given hardware compatibility is typically more lenient.

Side-note here: Ditching support for the 2016 MBP with the release of Ventura is just plain stupid. No further words needed.

I think one of the issues is the Spectre/Meltdown attacks. Apple still needs to mitigate for these flaws in software, which I expect slows down MacOS considerably in some situations. Ditching support for Intel cpus older than 8th generation, when the first hardware mitigations appeared, would help them get rid of some of this OS crud.