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TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
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5,639
London, UK
@Amethyst1 Plus OWC's products are overpriced in my humble opinion. You pay a premium for what is usually an unnecessary assurance of compatibility. Case in point that your BX500 is cheaper and more modern than the OWC drive which is inferior and yet commands a higher price...
 

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,787
12,187
@Amethyst1 Plus OWC's products are overpriced in my humble opinion. You pay a premium for what is usually an unnecessary assurance of compatibility. Case in point that your BX500 is cheaper and more modern than the OWC drive which is inferior and yet commands a higher price...
I totally agree but having no personal experience with OWC myself I decided not to comment on their “pay for piece of mind” strategy. :)
 
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zachiedoo

macrumors regular
Nov 3, 2022
166
93
S QC
OWC don’t state what controller their “glorious” SSD uses, but it being limited to 3 Gbps may well imply it’s quite old. 6 Gbps was pretty much standard by 2011. That isn’t bad per se, but the BX500 is a more modern drive.

I use a Crucial BX500 in my 2007 MacBook Pro (same SATA controller) and it works fine.
Ordered the BX500. It's actually the one I had been looking at when I was thinking of switching out the HD in the ETA: 2013 2011 MBP I was having problems getting an OS onto. And, the MB already has 4GB of RAM, so no need to upgrade that. I'd forgotten I had upgraded it eons ago.
 
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Romain_H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2021
520
438
Well...

images
In all fairness: B. G. III denies to have ever said that. And it seems nobody has ever been found who would bevwilling to confirm to have witnessed him saying that. As it stands it seems the meme is just an internet myth
 

zachiedoo

macrumors regular
Nov 3, 2022
166
93
S QC
Not to open a can of worms, but if you’re running a reasonably modern version of macOS on that 2011 MBP, you might want to consider going beyond 4 GB.
This is actually my 2008 MB I'm working on that has the 4GB already. It maxes out at 6GB and it'll only have Lion, so it's probably ok at 4GB I figure. I'll get around to renovating the 2011 in the new year, likely 😆

ETA: I should probably get a USB drive adapter at this point. Given I'll be working with 2008/2011/2013 MB's & MBP's, would this be a good choice?
 
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zachiedoo

macrumors regular
Nov 3, 2022
166
93
S QC
Looks fine. Those machines all use SATA drives, so the adapter also offering IDE/PATA is moot... unless you happen to run into a non-G5 PowerPC Mac, which uses PATA.
Thank you once again. :)

ETA: I will be changing out the drive on my G4 mini, so it will actually be useful there, too.
 
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TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
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In all fairness: B. G. III denies to have ever said that.

Of course he's going to deny ever saying that. If I were him, I would too. ;)

And it seems nobody has ever been found who would bevwilling to confirm to have witnessed him saying that.

Well, here's what he actually appears to have said...

I have to say that in 1981, making those decisions, I felt like I was providing enough freedom for 10 years. That is, a move from 64k to 640k felt like something that would last a great deal of time. Well, it didn’t – it took about only 6 years before people started to see that as a real problem.

Granted its been misquoted and distorted through the years but that's still revealing of someone who often lacked foresight.

On that note...

As it stands it seems the meme is just an internet myth

That's pretty ironic given that Gates had to revise and republish The Road Ahead to include a chapter on the Internet as the 1st edition published in 1995 barely mentioned the Web and he initially dismissed the Net as a fleeting phenomenon that would give way to something more substantive. :D

He certainly can't deny claiming in 2004 at the WEF in Davos that Microsoft would soon catch up with Google and outpace them in the field of search technology. That certainly came to pass. As did his assertion that spam would soon "be a thing of the past." If only!

I bet he wishes that this statement from 1984 could be thrown into the Memory Hole...

The next generation of interesting software will be done on the Macintosh, not the IBM PC.

Nice to see that he had such faith in the machine. :)

Not to open a can of worms, but if you’re running a reasonably modern version of macOS on that 2011 MBP, you might want to consider going beyond 4 GB.

This is good advice. For years I used my 2011 MBP with the stock 4GB RAM on El Capitan and more lately, High Sierra and I faced countless problems which I'd attributed to either a corrupt OS or general software glitches. My browsers would slow to a crawl or pause to constantly reload tabs - requiring me to force quit and reopen Firefox. Even something as basic as right-clicking on icons involved a lengthy pause and a "fetching" notification and I'd often need to repeat that twice before the context menu would appear.

Upgrading the RAM in quick succession to 8GB and then 12GB saw these difficulties vanish immediately. If you have anything planned that involves a more recent incarnation of macOS and you value your sanity, expand the RAM asap.
 

Romain_H

macrumors 6502a
Sep 20, 2021
520
438
I agree in that Mr. Gates often times lacked foresight, probably even with this 640k thing. There is non evidence though regarding said statement.

And even though he didn‘t see the increasing memory requirements, the Internet, the Smartphone and even though Microsoft messed up lots products, Gates and / or Microsoft qualify as filthy rich.
After all, their failures didn‘t really matter at all, because they simply could afford them.

Not that I like this. Just sayin‘ 🤷🏼. 😉
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,249
5,639
London, UK
I agree in that Mr. Gates often times lacked foresight, probably even with this 640k thing. There is non evidence though regarding said statement.

:) I did address that here:

Well, here's what he actually appears to have said...

"I have to say that in 1981, making those decisions, I felt like I was providing enough freedom for 10 years. That is, a move from 64k to 640k felt like something that would last a great deal of time. Well, it didn’t – it took about only 6 years before people started to see that as a real problem."

Granted its been misquoted and distorted through the years...

And even though he didn‘t see the increasing memory requirements, the Internet, the Smartphone and even though Microsoft messed up lots products, Gates and / or Microsoft qualify as filthy rich.
After all, their failures didn‘t really matter at all, because they simply could afford them.

Of course and much of that wealth was achieved through monopolist tactics and an assortment of underhanded behaviour (often arguably immoral and unethical) that stifled rivals and saw many of the real industry innovators wane and collapse whilst MS/Gates became filthy rich.

A tremendous treatise on this topic by F.W. van Wensveen, that in my humble opinion is a must read.

Not that I like this. Just sayin‘ 🤷🏼. 😉

Ditto. :)

I built my first PC with the intention that I could bypass the "Windows tax" that's forced upon the average consumer when they purchase what were once called "IBM compatibles" and my intention was to install an alternative OS and escape being locked into MS products. It was with great reluctance that I finally threw in the towel and installed Win 9.x.

My first Mac was bought as an opportunity to dip my toes in the water and it proved to be the death knell of the PC as my default computing platform.
 

rampancy

macrumors 6502a
Jul 22, 2002
741
999
I found this 2x2GB and also this 4GB. Hefty price difference between 2x2GB and one 4GB. Is there a performance difference? Or would I be better off putting in a 2GB and a 4GB? I don't really know much about these things, I'm just starting out...

ETA: OWC also has this Mercury Electra 3G SSD. Are they good drives? I tend to gravitate towards OWC because they spell it out that it's compatible. When I'm on Amazon.ca, I'm less sure..

As @Amethsyt1 mentioned, you get a small performance boost from dual channeling when you go with 2x 2 GB, but you get an even larger performance boost from 2 + 4 GB. The only real limiting factor is if you actually want to go to the trouble of spending that much on RAM.

I don't really see the wisdom in buying OWCs SSDs, not when standard SATA SSDs from other stores work just as well and cost far less. For the lowest cost, I've relied on Kingston's A400 SSDs - not the best by any means, but they are some of the cheapest name-brand SSDs I've seen. And since I usually put these in MacBooks limited to SATA I speeds (like my Core Duo MacBook 1,1, which is even older than yours), they're plenty fast anyway, even without DRAM cache.

If you do want to spend top-dollar on a best-in-class SSD, I heartily recommend the Samsung 870 EVO. They're explicitly compatible with SATA I interfaces, and their performance and reliability level leaves room for them to be used in later, faster Macs should you so desire.
 
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zachiedoo

macrumors regular
Nov 3, 2022
166
93
S QC
As @Amethsyt1 mentioned, you get a small performance boost from dual channeling when you go with 2x 2 GB, but you get an even larger performance boost from 2 + 4 GB. The only real limiting factor is if you actually want to go to the trouble of spending that much on RAM.

I don't really see the wisdom in buying OWCs SSDs, not when standard SATA SSDs from other stores work just as well and cost far less. For the lowest cost, I've relied on Kingston's A400 SSDs - not the best by any means, but they are some of the cheapest name-brand SSDs I've seen. And since I usually put these in MacBooks limited to SATA I speeds (like my Core Duo MacBook 1,1, which is even older than yours), they're plenty fast anyway, even without DRAM cache.

If you do want to spend top-dollar on a best-in-class SSD, I heartily recommend the Samsung 870 EVO. They're explicitly compatible with SATA I interfaces, and their performance and reliability level leaves room for them to be used in later, faster Macs should you so desire.
Thank you for your thoughtful input. I really appreciate the education I'm getting through this process. 👍
 

czs

macrumors newbie
Aug 3, 2022
19
4
Plenty of comments commenting on OWC being overpriced so for some balance...

Being "overpriced" is a subjective determination as it really comes down to value which necessarily includes compatibly + the "I just want s**t to work out of the box" factor. With that in mind, I see OWC as being somewhere b\t the MotherShip (i.e. Apple which by nearly all measures is far less value) and the wild (non-approved Mac gear).

There's also a few generalizations here about non-Apple or non-OWC stuff being just as compatible as actual Apple\OWC gear. Here's the thing - In many cases, that just ain't true. When going with non-approved gear, the term YMMV cannot be overstated as the results depend heavily on the type of item (RAM, SSD, HDD, GPU, etc.) and the model of the Mac in which said item is to be installed. Don't believe me? OK - well please hop over and browse the MR thread entitled "PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI" and note the wide variety of capability WRT to non-approved NVMe products. Along these same lines is the Samsung 870 EVO mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The 870 is a very capable SSD unless of course you want to use it as a boot-drive in certain cMP5,1 configurations in which case, you're out of luck.

So my overall points are (a) If you're one that has the time and chutzpah to tinker with non-approved gear (which I often am), then go forth and install what you may; but (b) If you want something to work Day-1, then OWC is a great bet...
 
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Plenty of comments commenting on OWC being overpriced so for some balance...

Being "overpriced" is a subjective determination as it really comes down to value which necessarily includes compatibly + the "I just want s**t to work out of the box" factor. With that in mind, I see OWC as being somewhere b\t the MotherShip (i.e. Apple which by nearly all measures is far less value) and the wild (non-approved Mac gear).

There was a time when Macsales (later, Other World Computing, then OWC) competed against many more companies for Mac parts. Tigerdirect and NCIX in Canada come to mind as past players, as do multiple local Apple authorized resellers. Along the way, OWC sold products from major brands then, including hard drives (like Seagate, Hitachi, Fujitsu, Maxtor, Toshiba, WD, and so on).

Along the way, OWC re-positioned their brand as the place for any Apple products which didn’t come from Apple themselves. They did well for a while with this re-positioning, and I applaud them for that (and, I’ll add, I’ve been a customer of theirs a few times over the years, as recently as 2020).

When OWC were selling products from many vendors within lines which OWC also offered their house brand, they took out some of the guesswork in what to buy for Macs. Again, I applaud them for that.

What changed was — not unlike with Apple — the opacity of OWC-branded products’ provenances and prices escalated as they moved into vending their own house brands for products like SSDs and RAM whilst no longer offering competing brands’ products (or letting a customer willing only to shop at their store to decide between competing brands — like a Tigerdirect or even a Newegg now). OWC began charging a lofty premium on spec-for-spec identical products which competitors offer for less elsewhere — and I cannot overstate this — if an informed consumer did their digilence. That means, bluntly, a consumer should still be doing their homework before crying uncle and shouting, “Shut up and take my money.”

And that there is our sticking point:

There are informed Apple consumers who advocate for others to do the same (like regulars on here), to encourage consumers to find competing products of the same quality for less, and there are consumers who aren’t willing to do basic legwork — consumer diligence and literacy — of shopping for products which fall somewhere between consumables (like groceries) and durable goods (like a computer). That is: items which aren’t impulse-buy cheap, but not at a threshold at which one can flirt with taking out a loan (such as with buying a new Mac).

This also happens outside of tech, but it’s really incumbent upon a consumer to do the diligence of knowing what their computer needs and to fulfil that whilst getting the best value for their hard-earned money.


There's also a few generalizations here about non-Apple or non-OWC stuff being just as compatible as actual Apple\OWC gear. Here's the thing - In many cases, that just ain't true. When going with non-approved gear, the term YMMV cannot be overstated as the results depend heavily on the type of item (RAM, SSD, HDD, GPU, etc.) and the model of the Mac in which said item is to be installed.

OK. Here’s a good case example:

When OWC released the Aura Pro line of m.2-factor blade SSDs, their marketing materials noted only how High Sierra or higher was required, but didn’t explain in product literature how the NVMe protocol of Aura SSDs rely on PCIe (and not SATA), why it’s different from the AHCI standard of the OEM Apple SSD blade, or why Apple didn’t provide drivers for NVMe until High Sierra.

Nowadays, one may drop USD$139 on an Aura Pro X2 1TB SSD [archived 2023.03.09] for their rMBP running High Sierra or newer. Or, they can spend less than USD$100 for a high-end WD Black NVMe 1TB SSD [archived 2023.03.09] (which explicitly includes a DRAM for caching), or USD$53 for a WD Blue NVMe 1TB SSD [archived 2023.03.09]. Round up the WD Black to $100 when including the cheap and plentiful Apple-proprietary socket-to-m.2-NVMe adapter, and an informed consumer will pay from at least 30 per cent (for a WD Black) up to 60 per cent (for the WD Blue) less than the OWC Aura Pro (which, even in its product info, doesn’t even mention if the hecking thing has DRAM on board!). Heck, if a savvy consumer shopped around, they could probably find even lower prices on the same items. Well, except for the OWC Aura Pro, which is only available from OWC. :/

The Aura Pro, compared with even the cheaper WD Blue? It has a lower throughput (2989MB/s vs. 3500MB/s) and lower TBW (450TB vs. 600TB). OWC’s Aura Pro page boasts “7% overprovisioning” — but every SSD maker does that already.

Aside from a single line of OWC SSDs whose controller can down-step to SATA I (handy for a Power Mac G5’s SATA bay), the rest of OWC’s house-branded SSDs are far and beyond what one ought to pay for even a competing product from long-reputable brands like Western Digital, Kingston, or Micron.

tl;dr: Since expanding their house brand and shutting out others on their store, OWC got spendy (or zealously opportunistic, take your pick) and chose to render their brand as boutique as Apple themselves. That is their wont. But so too is consumer scrutiny and encouraging fellow Mac users to do their consumer homework before pulling out their bank card.

The information a consumer needs to buy a quality competing product, without the premium of OWC’s name slapped on it, is not hard to find in 2023 — or, for that matter, in 2013. Quirks which made older Apple gear stand apart in third-party products to upgrade a Mac (like NuBus, ADB, or FireWire) are no longer and haven’t been for long while.


Don't believe me? OK - well please hop over and browse the MR thread entitled "PCIe SSDs - NVMe & AHCI" and note the wide variety of capability WRT to non-approved NVMe products.

This isn’t a matter of “belief” or “disbelief”. That thread’s creator, much as creators for other information clearance threads on here, do stuff like this as a means of providing hard data which can and often does gets buried in marketing materials and tech specs (or just omitted outright). Providing these data in one place is, as a by-product, a gesture of consumer advocacy as much as it is one of improving industry-wide transparency.


Along these same lines is the Samsung 870 EVO mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The 870 is a very capable SSD unless of course you want to use it as a boot-drive in certain cMP5,1 configurations in which case, you're out of luck.

In fairness, there appears to be several issues around the 870 EVO which also negatively impacts non-Mac users on non-Apple hardware. Whether this was a design issue or a string of bad firmware, Samsung will probably not be remembered with widespread praise for the 870 EVO. Others? Absolutely.


So my overall points are (a) If you're one that has the time and chutzpah to tinker with non-approved gear (which I often am), then go forth and install what you may; but (b) If you want something to work Day-1, then OWC is a great bet...

A) One doesn’t need “chutzpah” to be an informed consumer and a savvy shopper (is this now frowned upon?), but B) if you don’t want to be an informed consumer and/or don’t care about how much money you spend (even when it’s a poor value relative to distinguished competition), then OWC it all the way and let that ignorance be blissful. 🤷‍♀️
 
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czs

macrumors newbie
Aug 3, 2022
19
4
Thx @B S Magnet. Who-wheezie that sure is a lot of words to essentially say you don't see much value in OWC. And also the whole OWC = ignorant - LOL...you kids.

Know what else is funny? That you held up the WD Blue as a good alternative to an OWC product - gotta say, I really do thank you for helping make my point. See, while that drive may work in some instances (which I never argued against), the SN550 is listed as "NOT COMPATIBLE" for some machine configs on the aforementioned NVMe thread - again, exactly what I stated in my initial post.

Anywho, thanks again for the essay here and rest assured I will buckle-up and be far more diligent and informed...uhhh, wait - I kinda already do that. Hmm, oh well...

Cya...
 
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Thx @B S Magnet. Who-wheezie that sure is a lot of words to essentially say you don't see much value in OWC. And also the whole OWC = ignorant - LOL...you kids.

“Kids”? How flattering! “Back in my day, you phoned an 800 number to order up your Mac parts…”

BTW, it is funny that you tout the WD Blue as a good alternative to an OWC product - gotta say, I really do thank you for helping make my point. See, while that drive may work in some instances (which I never argued against), the SN550 is listed as "NOT COMPATIBLE" for some machine configs on the aforementioned NVMe thread - again, exactly what I stated in my initial post.

Your point is specious, not made. But hey, you do you.

My link was for the SN570, the replacement for the SN550. I reckon you didn’t bother to open the link because consumer diligence is not something you advocate generally. Even if the SN570 didn’t exist, that WD Black SN750 I cited first definitely does and is still much less spendy than the OWC Aura Pro.

As noted earlier: consumer literacy and consumer diligence matter. Relying on just one’s vendor’s own private label prodicts, to the exclusion of others which work as well or better and do so for much less money, is foolhardy. OWC hope a fool and their money are soon parted, idk.

Anywho, thanks again for the essay here and rest assured I will buckle-up and be far more diligent and informed...

I wrote for others’ reference in the future, not yours.


uhhh, wait - I kinda already do that. Hmm, oh well...

Good on you.
 

theMarble

macrumors 65816
Sep 27, 2020
1,019
1,496
Earth, Sol System, Alpha Quadrant
Thx @B S Magnet. Who-wheezie that sure is a lot of words to essentially say you don't see much value in OWC. And also the whole OWC = ignorant - LOL...you kids.

Know what else is funny? That you held up the WD Blue as a good alternative to an OWC product - gotta say, I really do thank you for helping make my point. See, while that drive may work in some instances (which I never argued against), the SN550 is listed as "NOT COMPATIBLE" for some machine configs on the aforementioned NVMe thread - again, exactly what I stated in my initial post.

Anywho, thanks again for the essay here and rest assured I will buckle-up and be far more diligent and informed...uhhh, wait - I kinda already do that. Hmm, oh well...

Cya...
Just putting this out there, read my signature.

I'm running 2015 Pro with a WD SN570, the newer version of the 550. Works great! No problems or limitations!

The WikiPost for NVMe drives has not been updated in years now, as it lists drives that are not supported, that are actually supported and vice versa.
 
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marzer

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2009
1,404
135
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“Back in my day, you phoned an 800 number to order up your Mac parts”

PHONES?! I telegraphed in morse code to order replacement parts for my first Comptometer.

😄

P.S. Big fan of OWC, esp. their TB RAID enclosures
 
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“Back in my day, you phoned an 800 number to order up your Mac parts”

PHONES?! I telegraphed in morse code to order replacement parts for my first Comptometer.

Whew! Thank goodness your order wasn’t disrupted by the Carrington event!

You should’ve seen it: the night sky was a psychedelic light show for everyone, everywhere, but Western Union were displeased at all the damage it caused to their offices which didn’t power things down. :( (And those which did could still communicate with one another whilst their own power was off, on just the atmospheric EM flux alone.

I still remember it like it was the 2010s…
 
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zachiedoo

macrumors regular
Nov 3, 2022
166
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cut, snip
In fairness, there appears to be several issues around the 870 EVO which also negatively impacts non-Mac users on non-Apple hardware. Whether this was a design issue or a string of bad firmware, Samsung will probably not be remembered with widespread praise for the 870 EVO. Others? Absolutely.
So before these comments were made about problems with the 870 EVO, I ordered one, a 1TB model, for a late 2011 MBP (model 8,1) This doesn't seem to be the same size of drive as those reporting problems, but although I try to be well-informed, I'm still on a learning curve.

It has arrived, should I just return it, or have the issues been resolved? It has a 2022 10 29 production date.
 
So before these comments were made about problems with the 870 EVO, I ordered one, a 1TB model, for a late 2011 MBP (model 8,1) This doesn't seem to be the same size of drive as those reporting problems, but although I try to be well-informed, I'm still on a learning curve.

It has arrived, should I just return it, or have the issues been resolved? It has a 2022 10 29 production date.

Honestly, if you already have it and it’s in use, continue to use it, but also make sure your backup drive and/or Time Machine is current.

I don’t know if later 2022-made drives are susceptible, as I lack hands-on experience with the 870 EVO. I will say after reading reviews of some 870 EVOs having issues, I went ahead and bought a WD Red SA500 SSD (which cost a few dollars more, but also has a longer sales history and fewer negative user reviews than the 870 EVO, having been released, I think, back in late 2017).

Virtually all of the major-brand SSDs I buy and use — SATA or NVMe — come from WD which, like Samsung, are usually and consistently good quality for SSDs (and with WD, HDDs as well). Even so, WD also have their stinkers, such as the DRAM cache-less WD Green line of SSDs and an emerging number of buyers running into trouble with the new-gen WD Blue SA510 SSD).
 
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