Since Mac Pro 2013 is officially a failed product...

[loby]

Did they say nMP was a failure or is this an extrapolation by some at this forum (e.g Aiden)? They said that the cylinder did not have a sufficient thermal headroom and that it did not suit all users. They did not specify for what the cylinder is lacking but I guess for AR/VR developement. A failure for a commercial company is when the product does not provide a profit either directly or indirectly through other products. I have seen no such analysis from a reliable source (ie Apple). Thus all we do here is having opinions, which is fine.

The only "failure" apple may have said was that due to the heat issues, they could not upgrade the Mac Pro like they said and that the product form would last for another 10 years.

The product works fine if you don't have the issues with the graphic cards and the freezing. If you take the opinion that Mac Pro is a failure, then you would have to say the same thing about the MacBook Pro 2016 with the limitation of 16 GB of RAM due to battery drain issues since they may be updating it next week instead of waiting until October.

Apple should give those who have a Mac Pro an option to bring it in and pay some to upgrade the unit. I would Like to upgrade my CPU and graphic cards. They should provide an option to do this for a reasonable cost if it is indeed a "failed" product and would be a service to those who bought one, especially when they lowered the price $1,000.

 

[h9826790]

Did they say nMP was a failure or is this an extrapolation by some at this forum (e.g Aiden)? They said that the cylinder did not have a sufficient thermal headroom and that it did not suit all users. They did not specify for what the cylinder is lacking but I guess for AR/VR developement. A failure for a commercial company is when the product does not provide a profit either directly or indirectly through other products. I have seen no such analysis from a reliable source (ie Apple). Thus all we do here is having opinions, which is fine.

This is the full transcript of that interview.

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/06/t...-john-ternus-on-the-state-of-apples-pro-macs/

Apple representatives admit that they put themselves (the 6,1) into a thermal corner. Unable to use single large GPU. They think that "was" a clever design, but actually they are boxed by a circle. And the Mac Pro users are moving away......

OK, they never use the word "failure". However, it's not that hard to understand that they were actually admitting that 6,1 is a poorly design machine (as a Mac Pro). Therefore, they have to completely redo it.

As you said, that's all our opinions. I believe what they said means the Mac Pro is a failure. And you can stand on the other side. You believe "failure = not making money". For me, "users moving away" is bad enough to indicate that the product is a failure. Anyway, in this case, the tech news guy also interpret that Apple admit 6,1 is a failure, and actually use the word "failure" in the heading. Like this one.

https://betanews.com/2017/04/04/apple-mac-pro-redesign/

 

[davidb367]

The only "failure" apple may have said was that due to the heat issues, they could not upgrade the Mac Pro like they said and that the product form would last for another 10 years.

The product works fine if you don't have the issues with the graphic cards and the freezing. If you take the opinion that Mac Pro is a failure, then you would have to say the same thing about the MacBook Pro 2016 with the limitation of 16 GB of RAM due to battery drain issues since they may be updating it next week instead of waiting until October.

Apple should give those who have a Mac Pro an option to bring it in and pay some to upgrade the unit. I would Like to upgrade my CPU and graphic cards. They should provide an option to do this for a reasonable cost if it is indeed a "failed" product and would be a service to those who bought one, especially when they lowered the price $1,000.

I'm a happy nMP user. It works very well doing CAD and 3D graphics. It would be nice if Apple would just go ahead and replace the first the GPU with a D700 and remove the second GPU. In it's place put in a card that would allow additional SSD's to be installed.

 

[scoobs69]

amd having good cpus?? apple seeing that other pro workstations have TB loop back cables to link video card DP to the TB bus?

I've seen some interesting comparisons with AMD's $300 Ryzen 7 1700 chip vs. a 2013 Mac Pro.

So it definitely shows a LOT of promise. BUT.....considering how buggy the nMP has been, and with AMD's Ryzen CPUs and boards are still a bit unproven regarding reliability as a hardcore workstation, it's probably not a good idea to match them up just yet. Give AMD another generation to prove themselves, and I'd be more inclined to make that leap.

The one caveat against AMD is their pricing. People know how cheap these chips are. Will Apple AMD workstations fly with Apple's pricing?

 

[Simon R.]

I'm a happy nMP user. It works very well doing CAD and 3D graphics. It would be nice if Apple would just go ahead and replace the first the GPU with a D700 and remove the second GPU. In it's place put in a card that would allow additional SSD's to be installed.

Oh yeah, that would be just great They would surely have another winner on their hand.

 

[pat500000]

This sounds like an opinion to me. You can even believe 6,1 is a success product. It's just a personal opinion. I won't against that. You have your right to believe and express your opinion.

However, what AidenShaw pointed out is a fact. That's what Apple officially said.

We can only argue on our opinion, not the fact. And we cannot use our opinion to override a fact. 6,1 is a officially failure product.

But Apple never says pat500000 believe 6,1 is a failure product. There is simply no contradiction between your personal opinion and Apple's official statement. The 6,1 can be a huge failure to Apple, but at the same time, the best ever machine for yourself.

I dont believe its successful...far from it. But i do believe that it has some uses. Of course its an opinion as you say. Of course, apple admitting that its a failure is a fact as well but i dont think they understood why it was a failure.

 

[linuxcooldude]

However, what AidenShaw pointed out is a fact. That's what Apple officially said.

In the typical Aiden fashion he substituted some words to conform to his own agenda. I haven't seen the exact wording used by Apple in any case. Sure they confirmed some of the problems they had with the new design and what not. But many, including myself, are using this Mac Pro every day to get their work done.

Aiden is never likely, ever, to use an Apple designed computer, because what he does is not typical to 99% of the users out there using highly specialized custom PC's for a highly specialized tasks with a bazillion graphic cards. But just because he uses such highly specialized, custom PC's does not necessarily make any other brand a failed product.

But for me, I'm going to be using ( By some, a failed product ) to produce my first promotional video for work. Been working with the marketing director and media department working out the logistics.

OK, they never use the word "failure". However, it's not that hard to understand that they were actually admitting that 6,1 is a poorly design machine (as a Mac Pro). Therefore, they have to completely redo it.

As most will and have used what Apple said to say things they never actually said. I would expect nothing less on MacRumors.

 

[mavericks7913]

This is just upgrability issue and thermal issue. Few apps like fcpx works well. Nmp is not the best champ machine but it is not totally unusable.

No. It does not. If Mac Pro 2013 use full performance, the machine itself can not hold due to a poor cooling system. It's not just upgradability and thermal issue. They are most important issue that Mac Pro 2013 have. Expandability is another issue. Only few accessories available for TB 2 ports. Also, did apple care about Mac Pro 2013? No, they didnt for few years. For standard uses, it's fine but I really doubt getting Mac Pro for standard uses instead of professional purposes with 100% performance. That's what Mac Pro is made for and it failed which result a lot of users to move from MacOS to Windows.

 

[davidb367]

Oh yeah, that would be just great They would surely have another winner on their hand.

My point is that the second GPU is not widely used by most software anyway, so you could put a better GPU in the first slot and use the second for more storage, keeping the thermal within the crappy thermal limitations of the nMP. It still will not compare to the old cMP in GPU choices, but might give a little longer lifespan to those of us who need to save up the additional cash for a mMP .

 

[pat500000]

No. It does not. If Mac Pro 2013 use full performance, the machine itself can not hold due to a poor cooling system. It's not just upgradability and thermal issue. They are most important issue that Mac Pro 2013 have. Expandability is another issue. Only few accessories available for TB 2 ports. Also, did apple care about Mac Pro 2013? No, they didnt for few years. For standard uses, it's fine but I really doubt getting Mac Pro for standard uses instead of professional purposes with 100% performance. That's what Mac Pro is made for and it failed which result a lot of users to move from MacOS to Windows.

It is expandable just not the way many would think. I have yet to see nmp melt down. But that doesnt mean nmp cant get things done.

 

[mavericks7913]

It is expandable just not the way many would think. I have yet to see nmp melt down. But that doesnt mean nmp cant get things done.

How would you even expand huh? With TB2? Really? Only few accessories exist, require additional power cable on each product, and messy set up. Why not just make a big case like a classic Mac Pro? Expandability is totally failed. If you still wanna use it, then you need adapters. I see the price is WAY expensive too.

I was in the animation lab and over 20 of them were sent to Apple cause they melt down. If you dont use it for 100% performance, it's fine but I really doubt about not using 100% of performance while you are using workstation computer. You can say it's a good product. However, Mac Pro 2013 is officially a failed product like Apple Power Mac G4 Cube and most people agreed. Im talking about facts dude.

 

[pat500000]

How would you even expand huh? With TB2? Really? Only few accessories exist, require additional power cable on each product, and messy set up. Why not just make a big case like a classic Mac Pro? Expandability is totally failed. If you still wanna use it, then you need adapters. I see the price is WAY expensive too.

I was in the animation lab and over 20 of them were sent to Apple cause they melt down. If you dont use it for 100% performance, it's fine but I really doubt about not using 100% of performance while you are using workstation computer. You can say it's a good product. However, Mac Pro 2013 is officially a failed product like Apple Power Mac G4 Cube and most people agreed. Im talking about facts dude.

What? You cant work with tb2? I do video production. Dont get me wrong but i do want cmp style but that is gone and beyond. If yours melt down then the nmp is not for your usage then. Nmp was targeted for video and music. There are stuff that it can done with but not with yours. To say that nmp is a total failure but when musicians and editors are fine and dandy with it is not right. Im saying its a failure to lot of peolle's standards but its not without some usage.

 

[mavericks7913]

What? You cant work with tb2? I do video production. Dont get me wrong but i do want cmp style but that is gone and beyond. If yours melt down then the nmp is not for your usage then. Nmp was targeted for video and music. There are stuff that it can done with but not with yours. To say that nmp is a total failure but when musicians and editors are fine and dandy with it is not right. Im saying its a failure to lot of peolle's standards but its not without some usage.

TB2 is a dead port and it's a fact. Not only for video and music. Animation, effects, and more. It will be a problem in long-term because it can not cool CPU and GPU inside. It will cause meltdown. My school labs have tons of Mac Pro for Photography uses and guess what? Over 30 of them had been sent to Apple for repair. They were full upgraded version. There is no doubt that Mac Pro 2013 is a Failed product. You need to think about overall opinions, not just personal opinions. Just fine? PC can be built for much better performance with cheap price and better cooling system. That's why a lot of people left Mac Pro behind. Im really tired of having a conversation with you because you dont accept facts. Deal with it.

 

[pat500000]

TB2 is a dead port and it's a fact. Not only for video and music. Animation, effects, and more. It will be a problem in long-term because it can not cool CPU and GPU inside. It will cause meltdown. My school labs have tons of Mac Pro for Photography uses and guess what? Over 30 of them had been sent to Apple for repair. They were full upgraded version. There is no doubt that Mac Pro 2013 is a Failed product. You need to think about overall opinions, not just personal opinions. Just fine? PC can be built for much better performance with cheap price and better cooling system. That's why a lot of people left Mac Pro behind. Im really tired of having a conversation with you because you dont accept facts. Deal with it.

Actually you need to accept the fact that people are still using nmp and there are some satisfied customers. Fact.

 

[scoobs69]

TB2 is a dead port and it's a fact. Not only for video and music. Animation, effects, and more. It will be a problem in long-term because it can not cool CPU and GPU inside. It will cause meltdown. My school labs have tons of Mac Pro for Photography uses and guess what? Over 30 of them had been sent to Apple for repair. They were full upgraded version. There is no doubt that Mac Pro 2013 is a Failed product. You need to think about overall opinions, not just personal opinions. Just fine? PC can be built for much better performance with cheap price and better cooling system. That's why a lot of people left Mac Pro behind. Im really tired of having a conversation with you because you dont accept facts. Deal with it.

This is one reason why my next computer is going to be a custom built PC photography workstation. Another reason why people are leaving: Like me, they're tired of waiting for Apple to upgrade their products. When buy into the Apple ecosystem for your business, you're buying into their update cycles.

When Apple doesn't provide meaningful updates to their products for 4 years at a time (even upwards of 5 with the new modular Mac Pro), it's time to move on. Their updates aren't keeping up with the same speed as other tech - like the new camera sensors in terms of size, megapixels, and dynamic range. Working with hundreds of these large files at time can be brutal.

In the case of the 2013 Mac Pro, for me I wasn't interested because of the overall design lacked internal user upgradeable expansion. it also seemed Apple was on the verge of killing the Mac Pro altogether. Because of that, it's hard to remain confident they won't consider it again after this modular Mac Pro design.

I was waiting to see if the new MacBook Pros would offer 32GB of RAM and a beefed up GPU - I could definitely make that work. We got neither. ...I'm waiting with baited breath over this years WWDC.

 

[AidenShaw]

In the typical Aiden fashion he substituted some words to conform to his own agenda. I haven't seen the exact wording used by Apple in any case.

So, even though you haven't read the Apple interview, you're sure that I've "substituted some words".

You no longer have any credibility.

Aiden is never likely, ever, to use an Apple designed computer, because what he does is not typical to 99% of the users out there using highly specialized custom PC's for a highly specialized tasks with a bazillion graphic cards.

I'm unlikely to ever use an Apple computer because Apple doesn't put RAID controllers with multi-GiB FBWC as standard, Apple doesn't put a pair of 10 GbE ports with TCP and iSCSI and FCoE hardware offload standard, Apple doesn't put 24 DIMM slots on the mobo for 3 TiB max RAM, nor does Apple put 2800 watt power supplies in the system (redundant 1400 watt).

And Apple doesn't support UEFI BIOS - an absolute deal breaker.

And these aren't "custom PC's" - they're off-the-shelf x64 servers.

 

[mavericks7913]

Actually you need to accept the fact that people are still using nmp and there are some satisfied customers. Fact.

Yeah Yeah only because they already pay tons of money for Mac Pro 2013. You need to accept the fact first.
[doublepost=1496283971][/doublepost]

This is one reason why my next computer is going to be a custom built PC photography workstation. Another reason why people are leaving: Like me, they're tired of waiting for Apple to upgrade their products. When buy into the Apple ecosystem for your business, you're buying into their update cycles.

When Apple doesn't provide meaningful updates to their products for 4 years at a time (even upwards of 5 with the new modular Mac Pro), it's time to move on. Their updates aren't keeping up with the same speed as other tech - like the new camera sensors in terms of size, megapixels, and dynamic range. Working with hundreds of these large files at time can be brutal.

In the case of the 2013 Mac Pro, for me I wasn't interested because of the overall design lacked internal user upgradeable expansion. it also seemed Apple was on the verge of killing the Mac Pro altogether. Because of that, it's hard to remain confident they won't consider it again after this modular Mac Pro design.

I was waiting to see if the new MacBook Pros would offer 32GB of RAM and a beefed up GPU - I could definitely make that work. We got neither. ...I'm waiting with baited breath over this years WWDC.

Im also thinking to move from Mac to PC. Mac Pro 2013 is just too expensive and perform less.

 

[pat500000]

Yeah Yeah only because they already pay tons of money for Mac Pro 2013. You need to accept the fact first.
[doublepost=1496283971][/doublepost]

Im also thinking to move from Mac to PC. Mac Pro 2013 is just too expensive and perform less.

I didnt even deny the fact...so what are you talking about?

 

[fendersrule]

It is however a very irritating assumption by many forum members that their needs ( a big box often full of gtx cards) fulfills the needs of all professionals.

I was with you until this part. I'm failing to see anything else but a logical fallacy to this statement.

How doesn't a cMP not meet EVERYONE's needs if it was still in production today with modern specs (especially TDP) with maybe with one less optical bay?

No one is asking you to chock it full of GTX cards.

Before you try to make this statement, no one is asking you to place it on your desk, either.

Exactly. That is exactly why the 2013 Mac Pro was a failure. It turned something that worked for anyone/everyone into a super niche (relatively) customer base. And even that super niche customer base got boned when they learned that Apple painted themselves into a corner with the available thermal envelope and the lacking available upgrades to keep it new/fresh again.

As an Apple follower for 14 years, I've never heard them say "oops" publicly, nor have I ever heard them spilling info about what's in their pipeline for a replacement like they did with the nMP. Let that soak in for a bit.

People are in-fact pissed about the nMP (unless you've been hiding under a rock, like pat500000). Just because you guys are not pissed, doesn't make it not true that it was a failure.

Hey, a few people liked the Ford Pinto, so I guess it wasn't a failure!

 

[mavericks7913]

I didnt even deny the fact...so what are you talking about?

You did denied the fact. Check your first reply.

 

[pat500000]

You did denied the fact. Check your first reply.

I stated that mac pro 2013 has some uses.

 

[fendersrule]

I stated that mac pro 2013 has some uses.

It used to have "all uses" instead of "some uses".

 

[pat500000]

It used to have "all uses" instead of "some uses". Get the point now?

Never stated all. Get it?

 

[mavericks7913]

Thats why i corrected. Get it?

Now you are accepting facts. Good job

 

[pat500000]

Now you are accepting facts. Good job

Again. Never denied it. Try again.