Snow Leopard on Unsupported PowerPC Macs

[Edgecrusherr]

Ok, whoever is running 10a190 at the moment, please consider trying this out: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...lt-ports-unofficial-testing-welcomed.2433458/

I need some feedback on what works and what does not.

Thanks, I'm downloading this now to test.

To answer your other question, I don't have anything unusual connected, It's just an iMac G4, with only the USB keyboard and mouse. However, I am booting an external FireWire drive, as I don't have enough space on the internal to keep Snow Leopard on it. I may eventually upgrade the drive, but its a pain to replace it inside the iMac.

 

[barracuda156]

Thanks, I'm downloading this now to test.

To answer your other question, I don't have anything unusual connected, It's just an iMac G4, with only the USB keyboard and mouse. However, I am booting an external FireWire drive, as I don't have enough space on the internal to keep Snow Leopard on it. I may eventually upgrade the drive, but its a pain to replace it inside the iMac.

FW boot should work, I don’t think I ever had problems with it on 10.6. I also don’t think anything FW can cause issues. PCIe can.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

FW boot should work, I don’t think I ever had problems with it on 10.6. I also don’t think anything FW can cause issues. PCIe can.

Ok, thanks for confirming. It may have been a bad copy or corrupted DMG. I'll trash the one I have and redownload for my personal archive.

I'm currently 2 mins ways from restoring the version you uploaded. I'll boot it up when it's done and see what happens.

Do you have anything specific you want me to test to look out for?

 

[Edgecrusherr]

Works!

 

[barracuda156]

Ok, thanks for confirming. It may have been a bad copy or corrupted DMG. I'll trash the one I have and redownload for my personal archive.

I'm currently 2 mins ways from restoring the version you uploaded. I'll boot it up when it's done and see what happens.

Do you have anything specific you want me to test to look out for?

Running something like `sudo port -v install qmplay2` will be a good test. If it succeeds, try playing a video with it.

P. S. It is needed to run port sync first, which will take some time on G4.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

Running something like `sudo port -v install qmplay2` will be a good test. If it succeeds, try playing a video with it.

P. S. It is needed to run port sync first, which will take some time on G4.

Ok, I'll test that out now!

So far the only issues I've had are (maybe you know about these already):

I connected my other FireWire drive to grab my custom wallpaper. It doesn't show up in the Finder (on the Desktop or Computer) until I go into Disk Utilities, right click, and open the location. It will then show up on Desktop and Computer. This happens for all the partitions on that drive.

Changing the Finder window's background color doesn't work at all. I generally like to set it to 85% on the black and white slider (makes it a light gray). Minor issue.

Issues in System Preferences:

Going to Screen Savers crashes System Preferences. Not yet sure if the screen saver kicking in will lock up the system. I have to imagine this is due to the Nvidia 5200 in this iMac not supporting Quartz Extreme in Snow Leopard.

Going into Sharing (to try to change the computer name and turn on screen sharing) locks up System Preferences. I haven't made any changing in sharing, it locks up instantly when opening the Sharing pane,.

Going into the Clock tab under the Date & Time pane does nothing (I always turn Show Seconds on, it's a great way to know if a system is locked up), then makes System Preferences funky. It doesn't crash or lock up, but nothing redraws properly, and I can't go back to the main overview of System Preferences.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

Running something like `sudo port -v install qmplay2` will be a good test. If it succeeds, try playing a video with it.

P. S. It is needed to run port sync first, which will take some time on G4.

It says that port is now a command (screenshot attached she can verify I typed it properly). Let me know what I need to do to get port installed.

 

[barracuda156]

It says that port is now a command (screenshot attached she can verify I typed it properly). Let me know what I need to do to get port installed.
View attachment 2406059

export PATH=/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin

MacPorts guide has it (MacPorts and the shell section), but I guess I need to explicitly describe that here.

(Add it to your shell config file in your Home folder, then no need to do this every time by hand.)

 

[ChrisCharman]

Ok, I'll test that out now!

So far the only issues I've had are (maybe you know about these already):

I connected my other FireWire drive to grab my custom wallpaper. It doesn't show up in the Finder (on the Desktop or Computer) until I go into Disk Utilities, right click, and open the location. It will then show up on Desktop and Computer. This happens for all the partitions on that drive.

Changing the Finder window's background color doesn't work at all. I generally like to set it to 85% on the black and white slider (makes it a light gray). Minor issue.

Issues in System Preferences:

Going to Screen Savers crashes System Preferences. Not yet sure if the screen saver kicking in will lock up the system. I have to imagine this is due to the Nvidia 5200 in this iMac not supporting Quartz Extreme in Snow Leopard.

Going into Sharing (to try to change the computer name and turn on screen sharing) locks up System Preferences. I haven't made any changing in sharing, it locks up instantly when opening the Sharing pane,.

Going into the Clock tab under the Date & Time pane does nothing (I always turn Show Seconds on, it's a great way to know if a system is locked up), then makes System Preferences funky. It doesn't crash or lock up, but nothing redraws properly, and I can't go back to the main overview of System Preferences.

Some of those issues are fixed by replacing the cups binaries, some of the graphical fixes were detailed and shared in the wiki and by @educovas. @B S Magnet detailed specifically what was done on their system based on what @educovas shared in more detail regarding graphics acceleration Here. It’s worth noting that the 10.5 Leopard Finder, or possibly 10A096 Finder will need to be used if graphics frameworks are ported from Leopard. Even with the Finder replaced the disk mounting issues will remain, as this hasn’t been solved as of yet.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

export PATH=/opt/local/bin:/opt/local/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin

MacPorts guide has it (MacPorts and the shell section), but I guess I need to explicitly describe that here.

(Add it to your shell config file in your Home folder, then no need to do this every time by hand.)

Thanks. If you don't mind, can you give me quick overview. or provide a link to one, on how to make sure I install the correct version? I've installed MacPorts befrore, but not for PPC on Snow Leopard.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

Some of those issues are fixed by replacing the cups binaries, some of the graphical fixes were detailed and shared in the wiki and by @educovas. @B S Magnet detailed specifically what was done on their system based on what @educovas shared in more detail regarding graphics acceleration Here. It’s worth noting that the 10.5 Leopard Finder, or possibly 10A096 Finder will need to be used if graphics frameworks are ported from Leopard. Even with the Finder replaced the disk mounting issues will remain, as this hasn’t been solved as of yet.

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Which browser is everyone using as well? I have InterWeb 4 running. It works, but it's SLOW. Type from it right now.

 

[B S Magnet]

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Which browser is everyone using as well? I have InterWeb 4 running. It works, but it's SLOW. Type from it right now.

The slowness is related to JS/XHR the forum software uses.

Basically, the faster the processor, the less evident the lag. It is probably related to every typed character being echoed remotely: it makes server-side autosave of a draft possible.

(Try typing anything sometime into a forum post here from a G3 (even a fast G3, like the iBook G3/900 — and the lag can become borderline comical.)

On SL-PPC, from a 1.67GHz G4, there is some lag, but it is manageable. What hardware are you using to test your build?

 

[barracuda156]

Thanks. If you don't mind, can you give me quick overview. or provide a link to one, on how to make sure I install the correct version? I've installed MacPorts befrore, but not for PPC on Snow Leopard.

If you build from source, you need two things (after installation):
1. https://github.com/barracuda156/macports-base-10A190/commit/3280b720dd377fc7a6d1481d6af6444d97462cc4
2. Open /opt/local/etc/macports/macports.conf and add there (does not matter where exactly):

buildfromsource         always
cxx_stdlib              libstdc++
build_arch              ppc
universal_archs

If you want ports to build, take a look here and pick what you need: https://github.com/barracuda156/powerpc-ports/commits/Snow-PowerPC/
(Sorry, I know it is inconvenient, but here we are.)

If you want to build from source, but also be also to install pre-built ports, change `buildfromsource always` to `buildfromsource ifneeded`, open /opt/local/etc/macports/sources.conf, add this line ABOVE the last default one:

http://macos-powerpc.org/MacPorts/ports.tar

Then open /opt/local/etc/macports/pubkeys.conf and add /opt/local/share/macports/macos-powerpc-pubkey.pem
Then copy the key itself into /opt/local/share/macports/ (attached below, extract it, of course).

Finally, supposed-to-be-easy way, but experimental stage: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...lt-ports-unofficial-testing-welcomed.2433458/

 

[Edgecrusherr]

The slowness is related to JS/XHR the forum software uses.

Basically, the faster the processor, the less evident the lag. It is probably related to every typed character being echoed remotely: it makes server-side autosave of a draft possible.

(Try typing anything sometime into a forum post here from a G3 (even a fast G3, like the iBook G3/900 — and the lag can become borderline comical.)

On SL-PPC, from a 1.67GHz G4, there is some lag, but it is manageable. What hardware are you using to test your build?

Thanks for the details!

I'm on a 1.25GHz 20" iMac G4. And yeah, I can type, go earn a doctorate, and come back just in time to hit "post reply" lol.

 

[Edgecrusherr]

If you build from source, you need two things (after installation):
1. https://github.com/barracuda156/macports-base-10A190/commit/3280b720dd377fc7a6d1481d6af6444d97462cc4
2. Open /opt/local/etc/macports/macports.conf and add there (does not matter where exactly):

buildfromsource         always
cxx_stdlib              libstdc++
build_arch              ppc
universal_archs

If you want ports to build, take a look here and pick what you need: https://github.com/barracuda156/powerpc-ports/commits/Snow-PowerPC/
(Sorry, I know it is inconvenient, but here we are.)

If you want to build from source, but also be also to install pre-built ports, change `buildfromsource always` to `buildfromsource ifneeded`, open /opt/local/etc/macports/sources.conf, add this line ABOVE the last default one:

http://macos-powerpc.org/MacPorts/ports.tar

Then open /opt/local/etc/macports/pubkeys.conf and add /opt/local/share/macports/macos-powerpc-pubkey.pem
Then copy the key itself into /opt/local/share/macports/ (attached below, extract it, of course).

Finally, supposed-to-be-easy way, but experimental stage: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...lt-ports-unofficial-testing-welcomed.2433458/

Thank you for your help, I'll give this a go in the morning.

 

[barracuda156]

Another oddity with system headers of 10a190:

#import <Foundation/Foundation.h>
#import <Carbon/Carbon.h>
#import <Carbon/CarbonPriv.h>

in /System/Library/Frameworks/InputMethodKit.framework/Versions/A/Headers/IMKServer.h apparently pulls in a non-existent header `CarbonPriv.h`.

 

[ChrisCharman]

Another oddity with system headers of 10a190:

#import <Foundation/Foundation.h>
#import <Carbon/Carbon.h>
#import <Carbon/CarbonPriv.h>

in /System/Library/Frameworks/InputMethodKit.framework/Versions/A/Headers/IMKServer.h apparently pulls in a non-existent header `CarbonPriv.h`.

All versions of OS X or MacOS are released publicly without the required headers to build system components. CarbonPriv.h is an Apple internal system header.

 

[barracuda156]

All versions of OS X or MacOS are released publicly without the required headers to build system components. CarbonPriv.h is an Apple internal system header.

I do not really search through system headers randomly to find inconsistencies. I got an error when building some port, that CarbonPriv.h does not exist. Then I started looking into the framework headers.
If it is not supposed to be public, it obviously should not be exposed. Problem is that it is.
If you compare that header with the one in released 10.6, CarbonPriv.h is not present in the released version.

In a case you have interest to debug this, I will find what specifically triggered the error.

Another perhaps similar bug is <kim.h> in Kerberos headers. That one does not exist either, but it is pulled from public headers, which breaks building OpenJDK.

 

[ChrisCharman]

I do not really search through system headers randomly to find inconsistencies. I got an error when building some port, that CarbonPriv.h does not exist. Then I started looking into the framework headers.
If it is not supposed to be public, it obviously should not be exposed. Problem is that it is.
If you compare that header with the one in released 10.6, CarbonPriv.h is not present in the released version.

In a case you have interest to debug this, I will find what specifically triggered the error.

Another perhaps similar bug is <kim.h> in Kerberos headers. That one does not exist either, but it is pulled from public headers, which breaks building OpenJDK.

Yeah CarbonPriv.h should not be public, and was removed for the public release. It should be useful for rebuilding the Carbon framework and subframeworks, potentially other components, but could cause unexpected behaviour for everything else so can be safely removed or commented out for users not planning to build system components.

I don’t know what the Kerboros header is for but updating the system Kerberos is desirable anyway so that should be fixed. Good find.

 

[Threaderr]

Hey all! I'm just about to read up on whats happened here. I was digging trough some old backups etc. and found some interesting stuff i did around 2009/2014, I'm not exactly sure, I'm still veryfing that i got all everything, and i remembered i should backuo my Fink /sw folder, i remember i was testing am early version of llvm, and i see i built a few versions lf XNU, and rebuilt gcc-4.2 with a new(er) libstdc++ etc. i don't really have a clear idea what i did yet, but i thought it might be useful here, maybe:

https://github.com/threader/xnu_gcc_libc_etc_darwin

Cheers! Looking forward to see where this project has evolved!

 

[ChrisCharman]

Hey all! I'm just about to read up on whats happened here. I was digging trough some old backups etc. and found some interesting stuff i did around 2009/2014, I'm not exactly sure, I'm still veryfing that i got all everything, and i remembered i should backuo my Fink /sw folder, i remember i was testing am early version of llvm, and i see i built a few versions lf XNU, and rebuilt gcc-4.2 with a new(er) libstdc++ etc. i don't really have a clear idea what i did yet, but i thought it might be useful here, maybe:

https://github.com/threader/xnu_gcc_libc_etc_darwin

Cheers! Looking forward to see where this project has evolved!

Thanks @Threaderr! All contributions and testing welcome.

 

[Threaderr]

Thanks @Threaderr! All contributions and testing welcome.

Looking forward to getting to grips with this! I devised a way of installing the bare minimum essentials from a script running in the installer/recovey method for 10.7 osx86, found all that stuff too so i could have had an I7 with osx 10.7 still, but sadly i must have binned the laptop due to hw issues i could have fixed, now...

i ran a bit short on space copying stuff to USB from the PowerBook, and i didn't check the osx partition's i had, i just remembered i needed some old stuff and decided ' im going to have to get to grips with GRUB and booting from OF to USB anyway and include my yaboot conf and all to boot MorphOS anyway, i might as well grab some base files ' while doing a different project and slowly brainstorming. ' found this script i think 'i ran once' inst.osx.sh but i cant find it now even though i was sure i included that somehwere. I had it open in an editor and quickly went over it. Basically all thag was needed was to delete or move etc/rc.cdrom.sh or what it was after installing the base system. From in that manner. I'm thinking it can be done via the Darling project now.

 

[educovas]

I've decided to share what I have because I won't be working on this anymore. Maybe someone would want to fix the problems that are still around and I was unable to fix. It has been tested on more than 20 different machines and it booted on most of them.

Known issues:

Bluetooth won’t find devices
Ethernet/Wifi doesn’t work (Self-assigned IP)
Finder CoverFlow frozen/glitchy
Spotlight indexing doesn’t work
Display losing signal after booting on some machines (PMG5 only?) needs to boot through the boot picker to work
Quick Look partially broken
Sleep doesn’t work
Probably much more I can't remember.

Just a reminder: I'm not trying to contribute to any projects, I'm just sharing what I have so it doesn't get lost since I won't work on this again. I do not remember from which version the replaced files are from and/or what I've patched.

10.6.8 image: https://mega.nz/file/INYTnIgY#jCJ-x45yZFGXlTgiJz6lsItKEX92uBYTJpRaCPyYFP8
Replaced/patched files: https://mega.nz/file/kUARjb5B#1Z8eWqHa9bHrX0Y3uML-QoBASQNNi2aF7yFodpqhAug

 

[ChrisCharman]

View attachment 2431980 I've decided to share what I have because I won't be working on this anymore. Maybe someone would want to fix the problems that are still around and I was unable to fix. It has been tested on more than 20 different machines and it booted on most of them.

Known issues:

Bluetooth won’t find devices
Ethernet/Wifi doesn’t work (Self-assigned IP)
Finder CoverFlow frozen/glitchy
Spotlight indexing doesn’t work
Display losing signal after booting on some machines (PMG5 only?) needs to boot through the boot picker to work
Quick Look partially broken
Sleep doesn’t work
Probably much more I can't remember.

Just a reminder: I'm not trying to contribute to any projects, I'm just sharing what I have so it doesn't get lost since I won't work on this again. I do not remember from which version the replaced files are from and/or what I've patched.

10.6.8 image: https://mega.nz/file/INYTnIgY#jCJ-x45yZFGXlTgiJz6lsItKEX92uBYTJpRaCPyYFP8
Replaced/patched files: https://mega.nz/file/kUARjb5B#1Z8eWqHa9bHrX0Y3uML-QoBASQNNi2aF7yFodpqhAug

Good to hear from you again @educovas! Thank you very much for your considerable contributions. I will download what you’ve shared with much gratitude. Your efforts have helped a great deal, and are appreciated. All the best

To everyone else, i’m in the middle of moving home at the moment but fully intend to continue tinkering with this in the background, as time permits.

 

[FBSD_Mac]

I want to thank all of you for the hard work you have put in on this project!

@educovas, the progress you made recently was enough to finally convince me I should get serious about acquiring a (very!) long desired computer. I want be able to help in some small part. To that end I obtained a nice condition PowerBook5,9 and a set of external FireWire 800 (2.5”) drives for testing/dev purposes.

I’ve been tinkering with the image provided above since last night and managed to make a little progress on the networking issue. I haven’t identified the root cause of the current behavior yet but I did manage to get a working network interface.

Dealing specifically with the airport interface (en1) if I join my home network (WPA2 encryption) and then configure the connection manually (specifying IP address, netmask, router, and DNS) I can ping public IP addresses and establish SSH connections.

DNS resolution is not working. It is possible to pull up webpages in a browser if they are default content for a specific IP address. Load balanced sites (like Google) are a no go at the moment. Putting one of the Google IP addresses in the URL bar forces a redirect to the F5 and you end up with a non-resolving “http://google.com” that never returns content.

I have not yet tried setting up a hosts file (kinda late for me now) to see if local domain resolution works but will give it a go tomorrow if no one else does before I get to it.

I wanted to post this before I get any further along in case someone else can use the info as a springboard for faster progress than I am able to make.