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Would you be able to follow up with him on these and, where possible, forward some substantive links on where to source these builds? No search hits on either “10A428” or “10A430” relating to software appear to be indexed presently by the Archive. Thank you for your efforts.
I sent a message to him about two hours ago but I'm pretty sure he lives very far from me (time zones) and I know he's quite sick with cancer at the moment so it may be a while. I'll keep you guys updated though. I hope I'm not being tricked though. He seemed too knowledgable to be fooling me though, and it was clear he knows a lot about the topic without having to Google anything.
EDIT: He also claims to have an extremely early (can't emphasize that enough) PPC beta of Lion (I really can't emphasize how early this is, this is something from before the release of SL I guess) that was demoed to Steve Jobs and shot down by him.
 
I sent a message to him about two hours ago but I'm pretty sure he lives very far from me (time zones) and I know he's quite sick with cancer at the moment so it may be a while. I'll keep you guys updated though. I hope I'm not being tricked though. He seemed too knowledgable to be fooling me though, and it was clear he knows a lot about the topic without having to Google anything.
EDIT: He also claims to have an extremely early (can't emphasize that enough) PPC beta of Lion (I really can't emphasize how early this is, this is something from before the release of SL I guess) that was demoed to Steve Jobs and shot down by him.

I do hope he is able to fend off cancer successfully. It’s a deeply cruel illness.

You ought to let him know, the next you’re able to speak with him, that we will maintain his confidentiality, as desired. He is also encouraged to pass forward any overall knowledge he wants the community to know about any later builds which were confined to internal testing purposes. All of this is in the spirit of keeping surviving hardware in active service and out of waste streams.
 
I was talking with a dude a few days ago in a Hackintosh Discord server who had worked between Apple and IBM to test hardware and supposedly up to and including 10A430 were built for PowerPC. 10A428 was the final one compatible with G4 machines, 10A430 was only compatible with G5 machines and dropped support for the first G5 machines. He uploaded them to archive.org but has been quiet for a while and hasn't said anything since he started uploading them. I don't have the archive.org links but maybe if we search long enough/hard enough we could find them? This could be pretty big.

Oh wow. I hope we get hold on those builds. It would be a massive thing!
 
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10A428 was the final one compatible with G4 machines, 10A430 was only compatible with G5 machines and dropped support for the first G5 machines
That would imply 10A430 dropped support for 32-bit PowerPC machines, but not for 32-bit Intel machines. Interesting.

He also claims to have an extremely early (can't emphasize that enough) PPC beta of Lion (I really can't emphasize how early this is, this is something from before the release of SL I guess) that was demoed to Steve Jobs and shot down by him.
Seeing is believing; this unfortunately also applies when it comes to betas: Aeons ago, when I spent some time in what could be called "the beta scene", there were members who claimed to have in their hands, or have seen, all kinds of awesome betas but never showed credible evidence or the actual betas. And there are also fake betas or questionable screenshots. I don't mean to spoil the fun in any way or be an a**hole, I just want to say I've become skeptical. I'll shut up now :)

Again, all my best wishes for the person's health.
 
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I was talking with a dude a few days ago in a Hackintosh Discord server who had worked between Apple and IBM to test hardware and supposedly up to and including 10A430 were built for PowerPC. 10A428 was the final one compatible with G4 machines, 10A430 was only compatible with G5 machines and dropped support for the first G5 machines. He uploaded them to archive.org but has been quiet for a while and hasn't said anything since he started uploading them. I don't have the archive.org links but maybe if we search long enough/hard enough we could find them? This could be pretty big.

10A428? I wonder if that’ll work on my G5….. I doubt 10A430 will, but who knows… Apple was selling the AGP G5 until early 2005, which by late 2005 they introduced the PCIE G5.
 
If you're talking about the G5, then yep. But the G4 - that shipped in Apple's notebooks until early 2006 - was no match for Intel's Pentium M as far as performance was concerned. And the M was released in March 2003. Uh-oh.
I’ve been meaning to do an actual test of this with my Pentium M Dell Insprion I have laying around. I’m pretty sure it’s 1.67 or 1.87GHz. Something close to that making it a good comparison to a PowerBook G4. Unfortunately I only have one 1.67GHz PowerBook and it suffers from an intermittent ram slot. The others are 1.5GHz or slower.

I used to use the aforementioned Dell quite a bit on Windows 7 and it was totally useable. But this was CIRCA 2009/2010. My iBook G4 was just as useful to me at the time.
 
EDIT: He also claims to have an extremely early (can't emphasize that enough) PPC beta of Lion (I really can't emphasize how early this is, this is something from before the release of SL I guess) that was demoed to Steve Jobs and shot down by him.

The dates sound unlikely, as Lion was unveiled and demonstrated in october 2010. While this must have been a beta older than the first released Lion beta (11A390, February 2011), this still leaves over a year between any PPC-compatible Lion beta and the announcement; doesn't sound like "Apple speed". Steve Jobs was - understandably - on medical leave for the first half of 2009 so there is no way that this was before the release of SL. If it's true, if must realistically have been sometime in 2010 as Steve Jobs again went on medical leave - alas for the last time - in January 2011.

That said, 11A390 was the last build to run on i386, so it isn't unfathomable that any previous builds might still have had PPC code if developed from another branch of internal SL betas that still had full PPC function, as none of the public Lion betas have any PPC code left in them.
 
This is super interesting. Do you think it might be one of the factors that influenced Apple to drop support for SL on PPC Macs? Not necessarily the _reason_ they did it, but a contributing factor that pushed it from a thought to a reality?

Because it does seem like they dropped support for PPC a bit too quickly

With considerable hands-on examination of these early SL builds, I’ve realized there may have been several reasons why Apple (or Jobs) made the executive move to omit PowerPC support for Snow Leopard. Obviously, selling more new Macs is in there. Within the code itself, however, it seems the breaking point — new technology too challenging to backport/support — is the arrival of the OpenCL standard.

The GPU/video card driver programming language which vendors were beginning to use moved away from one driver standard which drew 3D shapes in an older manner (and was unable to draw 3D which the new programming language could accommodate). The new standard (coincident with when OpenCL was being adopted by the industry, with Apple being one of the principal partners in the development of that standard) was the line in the sand. Insofar as I understand it, most, if not all of the AGP-based video cards had drivers written in the older programming language. To adopt the new language and OpenCL meant this left out every single PowerPC laptop and all PowerPC Mac desktops — save for the final, PCIe-based G5 models of late 2005/early 2006.

Optimally, it would be wonderful to have a former developer of AMD/NVIDIA video cards during this transition (and/or an Apple developer who was heavily involved with Leopard and Snow Leopard development) to corroborate/verify/clarify/refute this assessment, but the OpenCL standard appears to have been such that getting older AGP video cards to play well, using drivers whose programming language was altogether unaware of OpenCL, was probably too much production work for the retail version of Snow Leopard 10.6.0 to support AGP PowerPC-based Macs.
 
The dates sound unlikely, as Lion was unveiled and demonstrated in october 2010. While this must have been a beta older than the first released Lion beta (11A390, February 2011), this still leaves over a year between any PPC-compatible Lion beta and the announcement; doesn't sound like "Apple speed". Steve Jobs was - understandably - on medical leave for the first half of 2009 so there is no way that this was before the release of SL. If it's true, if must realistically have been sometime in 2010 as Steve Jobs again went on medical leave - alas for the last time - in January 2011.

That said, 11A390 was the last build to run on i386, so it isn't unfathomable that any previous builds might still have had PPC code if developed from another branch of internal SL betas that still had full PPC function, as none of the public Lion betas have any PPC code left in them.
Yeah, I'm guessing the guy is mixed up or something (maybe talking about a Lion build that still retained some PPC code as you mentioned) because it doesn't seem very likely. Still, it'd be very cool to have something like that.

He tried uploading the Snow Leopard builds to Google Drive first but ran into a capacity limit so he's trying archive.org. I still haven't heard from him since Thursday, we'll see if he says anything soon. I'll keep you all informed.
 
He tried uploading the Snow Leopard builds to Google Drive first but ran into a capacity limit so he's trying archive.org. I still haven't heard from him since Thursday, we'll see if he says anything soon. I'll keep you all informed.

Thanks. OK. It sounds like his effort to upload is an extremely recent one. This may be why nothing, as of last day, appeared on archive-dot-org.
 
Within the code itself, however, it seems the breaking point — new technology too challenging to backport/support — is the arrival of the OpenCL standard.

And this is indeed where the buck stops. It would have been far easier to port OpenCL to Intel OSX (e.g. from Linux x86 where very little work would have been required) for Apple than to PPC. Besides, none of the PCIe GPUs on the PM G5 supported OpenCL (e.g. GF 7800 GTX, Radeon X1900 GT with OpenFirmware roms), let alone AGP ones on earlier ones and on G4s.

When Apple switched to Intel in 2006, all manufacturers started writing EFI firmwares rather than OpenFirmware. OpenCL support started with the GF 8XXX series and Radeon HD 4XXX. Having OpenCL for PPC SL would have meant keeping on writing OF roms on top of EFI, which probably proved not worth it. EFI being little-endian, this probably proved easier than big-endian OF which limited the availability of models on the PM platform. So overall porting OpenCL to PPC would have made little sense.

Ironically, stock Radeon HD cards are supported under ppc Linux. I have one at home (HD 5770), and it works pretty well on Lubuntu 14.04 powerpc (strangely not 16.04 in my hands). And ironically, there are ppc/ppc64 opencl Linux ports. But these builds came later, otherwise Apple could have done it easily. That said, it could have been done, even for AGP. The Radeon HD 4670 AGP for example supports OpenCL (I used it on x86 with BOINC for OpenCL computations). Great card, incidentally.

Does anyone know if 10A96 or 10A190 implement OpenCL? If the 10A428 and 10A430 releases do exist, it is very likely that they would have supported OpenCL, being so close to 10A432. If not, it would probably be some undertaking to port ppc/ppc64 opencl from Linux.
 
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Yeah, I'm guessing the guy is mixed up or something (maybe talking about a Lion build that still retained some PPC code as you mentioned) because it doesn't seem very likely. Still, it'd be very cool to have something like that.

He tried uploading the Snow Leopard builds to Google Drive first but ran into a capacity limit so he's trying archive.org. I still haven't heard from him since Thursday, we'll see if he says anything soon. I'll keep you all informed.

I guess if it is just a storage capacity needed for upload issue, we could find a temporary option like FTP.
 

When Apple switched to Intel in 2006, all manufacturers started writing EFI firmwares rather than OpenFirmware. OpenCL support started with the GF 8XXX series and Radeon HD 4XXX. Having OpenCL for PPC SL would have meant keeping on writing OF roms on top of EFI, which probably proved not worth it. EFI being little-endian, this probably proved easier than big-endian OF which limited the availability of models on the PM platform. So overall porting OpenCL to PPC would have made little sense.

Ironically, stock Radeon HD cards are supported under ppc Linux. I have one at home (HD 5770), and it works pretty well on Lubuntu 14.04 powerpc (strangely not 16.04 in my hands). And ironically, there are ppc/ppc64 opencl Linux ports. But these builds came later, otherwise Apple could have done it easily. That said, it could have been done, even for AGP. The Radeon HD 4670 AGP for example supports OpenCL (I used it on x86 with BOINC for OpenCL computations). Great card, incidentally.

Does anyone know if 10A96 or 10A190 implement OpenCL? If the 10A428 and 10A430 releases do exist, it is very likely that they would have supported OpenCL, being so close to 10A432. If not, it would probably be some undertaking to port ppc/ppc64 opencl from Linux.

In 10A190, via Pacifist, the version of OpenCL was more of a placeholder by Apple than anything functional. In 2008, OpenCL was still being finalized as an industry standard, and Apple was prepared for this eventuality:

1635299358464.png


In 10A96, there are very early elements of OpenCL in a Framework which, as memory serves, was very incomplete (my test build of 10A96 includes a later version of OpenCL — a function of the testing which helped me arrive to the conclusion about OpenCL being Intel-only and applicable to only newer GPUs whose drivers were not written in BrookGPU).

At the time of Build 10A96, 4–8 June 2008, Apple had not yet submitted its OpenCL proposal to the industry working group, Khronos, and wouldn’t do so until 16 June 2008, per Wikipedia. When Apple released Build 10A190 in October 2008, the version 1.0 draft of OpenCL was still being worked on and wouldn’t be published until 18 November 2008.

So in short: the OpenCL framework bundled with either of 10A96 or 10A190 are placeholders and they are likely non-functional for OpenCL-aware GPUs. More specifically, Apple developed OpenCL alongside Snow Leopard.

And this is indeed where the buck stops. It would have been far easier to port OpenCL to Intel OSX (e.g. from Linux x86 where very little work would have been required) for Apple than to PPC. Besides, none of the PCIe GPUs on the PM G5 supported OpenCL (e.g. GF 7800 GTX, Radeon X1900 GT with OpenFirmware roms), let alone AGP ones on earlier ones and on G4s.

In practice, it was probably too great a request (at any price) for Apple to compel AMD or NVIDIA to re-write drivers for their older GPUs to be OpenCL-aware, as the hardware itself (and, by extension, the firmware) was designed for BrookGPU-written drivers. They would probably have needed to write some kind of layer or shim to translate to BrookGPU, which was probably too much work for the limited outcome (and which might have slowed GPU performance in high-demand circumstances, such as gaming).
 
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3EA05F36-76FF-4F56-AAF2-F60C7A3DEE83.jpeg

I’ve been trying to boot 10A190 on my 867MHz PowerBook G4 12” but have had no success. I get stuck here. Any ideas on what a possible cause/solution may be?
 
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I’ve been trying to boot 10A190 on my 867MHz PowerBook G4 12” but have had no success. I get stuck here. Any ideas on what a possible cause/solution may be?

I don’t offhand, no. Glancing at Table 2 in the WikiPost, it doesn’t appear anyone has reported trying out either build on a 12-inch PowerBook G4/867 (PowerBook6,1). Other users have found some success on later PowerBook6,* series Macs (such as the late-2004 iBook G4 and the 2005 PowerBook 12-inch editions).

If you’re new to trying out Snow Leopard on your PowerBook, I highly recommend starting with Build 10A96 to see whether the PowerBook6,1 will run that version. Also, even more importantly, keep this thread’s WikiPost open and handy as you’re trying to get SL-PPC up and running: some of questions you might run into may already be answered within.

As for your image above: it’s worth mentioning how several components were either removed or re-written for Intel-only by the time of 10A190, and it might take the migration of some Build 10A96 components into Build 10A190 in order to get it running on your system. (I do see, however, that the kext which your Mac needs for software-based video support — NVDANV10HAL — did load successfully. The IO80211Family.kext in Build10A190 is known to not work on PowerPC Macs; the version found on Build10A96 will need to be brought in.
 
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Runs okay… wish GPU acceleration was possible TBH. Will have to see how 10A428 runs on it when that’s finally released.

Spoiler: given the way OS X’s front-end interface works, you’re not generally going to see much of a difference in GPU performance unless you’re actually running software which, by design, targets the GPU for acceleration (such as 3D gaming, VLC playback, and so on).

With the several kexts and frameworks swapped in from 10.5.8, which are known to work with Build 10A96 (along with UI tweaks configured with Onyx and using OpenGL the Quartz Composer utility in the Xcode 3.2 Developer applications), you’re going to find that graphics performance won’t be too shabby. You should, for instance, probably be able to play up to 360p mp4 clips using QuickTime 7.7.0. With a Radeon 9200 and 1.25GHz CPU clock speed, speed will likely fall below 25fps, but still provide motion.
 
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Runs okay… wish GPU acceleration was possible TBH. Will have to see how 10A428 runs on it when that’s finally released.
I’ve still got hope but the guy still hasn’t replied or even been online in six days so hope is fading quickly for 10A428 to get out. We’ll see what happens though. I’ll keep everybody updated.
 
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I’ve still got hope but the guy still hasn’t replied or even been online in six days so hope is fading quickly for 10A428 to get out. We’ll see what happens though. I’ll keep everybody updated.

Exercise patience, as a lot of his attention and energy is probably focussed on some more pertinent matters.

Even if he is able to upload developer versions of SL which we haven’t seen/tested before, it’s probably prudent to keep your hopes tempered and operate as if the purported versions don’t actually exist until — and if — they are made available.
 
Something which may be of interest to @Princess Cake and other folks who have an especial love for purple when it comes to Snow Leopard:

Although I have have still not run across any hint of QuickTime X’s icons being purple in any of the released developer builds (Table 1 of this WikiPost), I did happen across a short-lived instance of when the iDisk icon was rendered in purple by Apple (so far, only in Builds 10A190 through 10A354).

1635402786792.png1635402820858.png

These are found in the Resources directory within the CoreTypes.bundle in Builds 10A190 through 10A354 (from April 2009). I’ve zipped and attached the .icns files for anyone who is into this purple aesthetic. These are the only purple anomalies I’ve run across during testing.

By Build 10A380, these icons were returned to the usual blue:

1635415486688.png




A purple QuickTime X icon set, as glimpsed in the June 2009 WWDC keynote, probably did not see the light of day beyond the keynote itself and maybe in nightly builds which didn’t reach even ADC members. In fact, the début of the eventual “QuickTime X” icon (identical to the purple, but filled in blue) would not emerge for another six weeks when Build 10A421 was seeded as a Software Update (external link).

1635403374152.png


Lastly, the version of QuickTime 10 Player.app, as it was named tentatively in Builds 10A354 and 10A380, still features the classic blue Q used with version 7:

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1635415573886.png
 

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