So hot, can we call it a Lap top?

[YunusEmre]

the ironic thing is, the instruction of macbook pro is "do not use on the lap for prolong period, or it might result in a possible burn".

I wonder if it say that in the PB manual too.


BTW yeah the key was "prolonged period". Good job getting your money back. I mean this heat issue should have been picked up before it was released. Don't they do beta testing with the pre-production versions? I'd be a good beta tester (new hardware and software) as long as I get to keep the new hardware

 

[aristobrat]

What is the CPU speed on those? I cannot imagine Apple design is flawed causing it to run hotter.

1.86GHz Dual Core ...

I thought that the "flaw" was that the excess thermal paste causes much of the heat to NOT be properly vented out of the 15" MPB?

 

[Kingsly]

1.86GHz Dual Core ...

I thought that the "flaw" was that the excess thermal paste causes much of the heat to NOT be properly vented out of the 15" MPB?

Here is a letter© I included with my MBP when I sent it in on a "601, overheat"

It should explain the thermal paste problem.

Hello,
As was determined by myself and the Apple product specialist with which I spoke on the phone, the excessive heat emitted by my MacBook Pro is most likely caused by improper application of thermal interface materiel between the CPU die and the heat pipe. This apparently causes the improper transmission of heat to the heat pipe and therefore incorrect readings by the thermal sensor which, as you probably know, is located on said heat pipe. The MacBook Pro is blissfully unaware of the situation and does not activate the fans, leading to the original problem.

I am sure you are already aware of this, but the proper application of thermal paste relies on the smallest, thinnest amount possible. Contrary to the MacBook Pro service manual (which calls for an entire syringe full-any google search would prove this incorrect), less than a pea sized amount, spread evenly into a paper thin layer over the heat pipe pad should be more than enough to facilitate proper transmission of heat.

Finally, I would like to assure you that I am in no way trying to tell you how to do your job or questioning your skill. You, after all, are the Apple certified technician, not me! I merely want to ensure the proper application of thermal paste the first time, as I would hate to go without my beloved machine a second time.

Thank you,
Duncan O'Bryan

 

[YunusEmre]

Here is a letter© I included with my MBP when I sent it in on a "601, overheat"

It should explain the thermal paste problem.

I hope they've read that letter. What is 601? Did you get it back or was it a return for a refund?

 

[Mord]

i am an apple certified technician and a completely concur with what's in the letter.

 

[Kingsly]

I hope they've read that letter. What is 601? Did you get it back or was it a return for a refund?

601 is the error code for an overheat. Like the way police assign crime a number.
It was a new machine. The man in the yellow DHL suit took it from me yesterday... awaiting its timley return.

i am an apple certified technician and a completely concur with what's in the letter.

w00t! I was hoping to get some good news like that. Hopefully whoever reads it will also agree.

By the way, how do you go about becoming an Apple certified tech? Im looking into it.

 

[Kingsly]

My computer is on its way back... hope it comes home fixed.

 

[matticus008]

I wonder if it say that in the PB manual too.

It does. Every notebook computer made since as far back as I can remember has included a warning to this effect. It was a particularly hot-button issue in 1998 or 99 with a bunch of news coverage on male fertility.

Fact is, I haven't seen a "laptop" advertised as such in close to a decade. They tend to be identified as notebooks, because they are roughly magazine sized, portable, and hinged along the spine. Portable computers is a larger category containing tablets, microPCs, and palmtops.

 

[YunusEmre]

My computer is on its way back... hope it comes home fixed.

Please keep us upto date with any news.

 

[YunusEmre]

It does. Every notebook computer made since as far back as I can remember has included a warning to this effect.

That is good to know. It is not a recent set back as it were, always been that way. But we all agree that in terms of heat the MBP is worst than the last PB right?

 

[matticus008]

That is good to know. It is not a recent set back as it were, always been that way. But we all agree that in terms of heat the MBP is worst than the last PB right?

I don't know. My PowerBook can get pretty toasty, and I don't own a MBP. Putting it through its paces at the Apple Store, though, I'd say it's generally cooler all in all than the PB.

The PowerBook gets hot and gets hot often. The MBP seems to get hot less often, but possibly gets slightly hotter when it does get pushed hard (I don't know about this, and I doubt it). Both get hot enough to turn skin pink, but neither get as hot as, say, a saucepan that you've been rinsing under your hottest tap water.

 

[Mord]

my ibook is downright cold, it's making my legs cold and it's currently 11 degrees C.

 

[stefan15]

Apple says these are not laptops, but portable computers. They recommend running them on flat surfaces such as furniture for extended periods of time.

And since Apple says that, it's ok. Right?

Totally agree with the thermal grease though. For most processors, you are only to use an amount equivalent to a small grain of uncooked rice. Also, it would be nice if they upped the quality (to say, Arctic Silver). I have found Arctic Silver Ceramique to be very effective. Too bad you can't put in a special request or do it yourself (perhaps at an Apple store).

 

[aristobrat]

But we all agree that in terms of heat the MBP is worst than the last PB right?

That was my experience.

Even with a light CPU load, the case of my MBP was significantly hotter than the hi-res 15" PB that it replaced. (specifically the bar above the f-keys and the bottom middle back area)

My PB never made my hands sweat, and I'm not one who normally sweats easily.

 

[Kingsly]

Please keep us upto date with any news.

Should be here today. (DHL is freakin fast! sent from texas @ 7:48 this morning, already in the delivery truck in van nuys on its way!)

Anyway, they replaced the keyboard and heatsink, which also means the thermal paste. If they read my letter (see previous posts) then life will be good. If nothing has changed I already drafted another, equally well written (IMO, ), letter to Steve himself.
*fingers crssed*

 

[CaptainCaveMann]

I checked out the 17" MBP in an Apple store at the weekend. It was running with the power connected and there were a few apps opened, but none were actively running (as far as I could see) and it was very hot to touch. I mean any hotter it could burn you. You cannot use it on your lap, not for long anyway. I guess when it is running on battery power the CPU is running slower so it will not heat as much. I wonder how hot it gets when it is working hard with the power connected. I would not be using it on my lap so much, but I am wondering if it is going to get so hot even when running on battery power. Is there a way to dial down the CPU power and avoid the heat build up? What are your impressions of this?

Im actually thinking about going out and buying a new MBP, then taking it home and running hard core apps on it all day in hopes that it will catch on fire. Then if it does i will sue the crap out of apple. Once that is done maybe i can afford one of the 550,000 dollar 1 bedroom condos here in San Diego. Thanks Steve!

 

[matticus008]

And since Apple says that, it's ok. Right?

...yes. Every notebook manufacturer and regulatory agency says the same thing, so you can replace "Apple" with "Dell" and "the government."

I mean any hotter it could burn you. You cannot use it on your lap, not for long anyway.

Not true. Safety certification caps acceptable temperatures at a level below that which would burn you. If a consumer device ever gets hotter than a certain level, it cannot legally be sold (except obviously cookware, ovens, torches, and other devices intended to be hot). So while the MBP might be uncomfortably warm, it will not burn you. Keep in mind that many kinds of electronics components cannot tolerate anything beyond 60C, and the temperature falls off rapidly from the heat source...so even if the CPU were at 60C, the case temperature wouldn't be more than about 40C (104˚F).

 

[aristobrat]

So while the MBP might be uncomfortably warm, it will not burn you. Keep in mind that many kinds of electronics components cannot tolerate anything beyond 60C, and the temperature falls off rapidly from the heat source...so even if the CPU were at 60C, the case temperature wouldn't be more than about 40C (104˚F).

Here are some external temps from a 17" MBP in this thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/202281/

Right speaker area: 104'F
Left speaker area: 113'F
Right track (wrist) area: 90'F
Left track (wrist) area: 93'F
Aluminum strip above keyboard: 122'F left and rightmost / 104'F center
Keyboard: 102'F
Bottom left and right: 93'F
Bottom above battery/memory compartment: 118'F

 

[matticus008]

Here are some external temps from a 17" MBP in this thread:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/202281/

Right speaker area: 104'F
Left speaker area: 113'F
Right track (wrist) area: 90'F
Left track (wrist) area: 93'F
Aluminum strip above keyboard: 122'F left and rightmost / 104'F center
Keyboard: 102'F
Bottom left and right: 93'F
Bottom above battery/memory compartment: 118'F

All of which are in safe limits. The hinge area of PowerBooks gets extremely hot, too, as does the area around the RAM door, just like the MBP, measuring as high as 50C at the hinge and 49 on the RAM door, which are similar to the temperatures you list. You'll note that the surface temperatures are right in line with the 40C "normal" high for the maximum temperatures, and none of the temperatures listed will cause a burn in less than 10-15 minutes of exposure.

 

[aristobrat]

So why is the MBP so uncomfortable for many to use compared to PowerBooks?

It amazes me that a Dual Core ThinkPad won't heat the case at all -- it remains at room temperature.

 

[matticus008]

So why is the MBP so uncomfortable for many to use compared to PowerBooks?

It amazes me that a Dual Core ThinkPad won't heat the case at all -- it remains at room temperature.

Groupthink? Who knows. The PowerBook was no icebox, and neither is the ThinkPad. Those do indeed get hot to the touch. I've used a MBP for an extended period and didn't notice anything too tremendously out of line. Sometimes a PowerBook is too warm for a lap, and I'd imagine the same is true for the MBP. They're not designed for use on laps, so it's sort of a moot point.

 

[milo]

Safety certification caps acceptable temperatures at a level below that which would burn you. If a consumer device ever gets hotter than a certain level, it cannot legally be sold (except obviously cookware, ovens, torches, and other devices intended to be hot).

If that were the case, why does my Dell notebook have a sticker on the bottom not to use it on your lap because it could cause burns?

If there are really government limitations on legal temperature, what IS the maximum temperature allowed?

Seriously. I've never seen a maximum temperature spec given by apple or any governing body.

 

[matticus008]

If that were the case, why does my Dell notebook have a sticker on the bottom not to use it on your lap because it could cause burns?

To cover their asses. Humans can feel something as uncomfortably "hot" at 41-42C, and a temperature of 43C can cause burns after about 12 hours. So if you kept your hand or leg on something at 43C for 12 hours, that would cause a burn, but no rational human would do something like that.

If there are really government limitations on legal temperature, what IS the maximum temperature allowed?

125˚F in the state of California. This temperature can cause a burn after about 10 minutes of exposure.

 

[aristobrat]

Groupthink? Who knows. The PowerBook was no icebox, and neither is the ThinkPad. Those do indeed get hot to the touch.

My 15" hi-res PB wasn't an icebox, but it only got uncomfortably hot when it was doing things that you'd expect it to get hot for (like ripping a DVD or watching some QuickTime trailers).

My MBP was uncomfortably hot when just surfing and using iTunes. I think it's crazy for the area immediately above the keyboard to be within a few degrees of what I have my hot water heater set to, and for the area on the bottom to actually exceed that ... wow ...

I have yet to feel my work T60 get warm, much less hot.

T-series Thinkpads have traditionally been cool running and fairly quiet machines. Given the chassis is pretty much the same size, how well did Lenovo cope with added heat of the Yonah dual core processor? The system idles around 38-43 degrees Celsius, depending on the surface its sitting on. If you load the CPU up, temperatures can climb over 60 C and the fans will kick in.

http://laptoplogic.com/reviews/deta...=3&PHPSESSID=0d5af26eecc85fc7aeea9ccdfc2d0d7e

So with CPUs pegged, the T60's temp is what most MBP's idle at.

 

[matticus008]

So with CPUs pegged, the T60's temp is what most MBP's idle at.

What are you saying? That MacBook Pros idle at 60C? The review seems to be talking about CPU on-die temperatures, which would be roughly the same as the MBP. It doesn't say anything about surface temperatures, and 60C is definitely NOT a surface temperature.