So I have an iPhone 5 and a GS4, comparison time!

[bmac4]

Really?

Have you travelled overseas?

Both the Samsung gs3 and iPhone 5 work flawlessly in the Asian country I am from. How do I know? Because I personally used the gs3 LTe there (max 3G speeds but everything works, no LTe there yet). And the ip5 is bought and used by all the rich guys (because it is a status symbol in some places) over there too.

I used my iPhone 4 over there two years ago.

Brother took his htc one x last year and it worked flawless.

Do you even know "unlocked" isn't a magical word for "works everywhere". You can "unlock" any modern phone and it works as a world phone.

That was hilarious. More blind nexus worshipping I see.

Yea you just said it. That LTE is a must have does not work across the world. You bought an unlocked iPhone 5, but it was based on your carriers LTE not the world. You could not cone to the states and have its LTE work on all our LTE towers. What I am saying is the nexus phone was made to work around the world on gsm networks. That LTE you praise so much does not work.

 

[tjl3]

How much was the wireless charger and NFC in an iPhone? It obviously doesn't have them. So I'd say that's more expensive would you?

The batteries are the same tech so that's more expensive.

Twice the amount of ram. Obviously more expensive.

The screen is more likely more expensive just from its size. I'm just assuming that though.

The Nexus 4 camera isn't as good but its not completely terrible either. The iPhone has the best camera or very close too it so anything else is technically crappier in comparison.

Unless you are saying a different radio and moderately but unarguably better camera is 350 dollars? It seems that you keep going back to the Nexus's camera when you mention cutting corners, then over look everything else which is technically better.

I wish Google would just design a Nexus phone internally. There is no reason not to any more. With all due respect, a Nexus will never be more feature filled than any OEM flagship. And there is little aside from the unlocked bootloader and price that keeps it competitive against other flagships. The success of other flagships has also proven that consumers don't need to be on the latest and greatest, so unless a big new feature is coming in the next Android release they need to find a way to generate buzz for their device.

I was always skeptical as to how much "design" Google was actually involved in with the Nexus 4. I think a personally designed and sourced Google Nexus would oversee some of the shortcomings. Also I doubt the Nexus 4 cost $350 or that LG even sells to Google at cost.

As for a world phone, it's nice and all, but it's much more convenient to be a world reaching phone like the other three than a world phone. I've always argued that OEMs that are serious about developing a flagship device need to consider availability in all markets and not just an unlocked GSM phone.

Yea you just said it. That LTE is a must have does not work across the world. You bought an unlocked iPhone 5, but it was based on your carriers LTE not the world. You could not cone to the states and have its LTE work on all our LTE towers. What I am saying is the nexus phone was made to work around the world on gsm networks. That LTE you praise so much does not work.

That doesn't make my iPhone 5 any less of a world phone. Also, you can't tether on AT&T with unlimited data no matter what phone you use.

 

[rtomyj]

Odd.

I have a galaxy note 2 and an i5. The note, stock, is ever bit as fast. The animations are just different. If I turn off the animations of the note 2, it will open the same app faster than when I use the i5. The difference is ever so slight, but when done next to each other at the same time... The note wins.

Your dislike of looking for apps is a product of your preference and not the operating system. The i5 has a great keyboard... But it really pales in comparison to SwiftKey on android. SwiftKey has better accuracy, prediction and a built on swipe feature.

I don't think he means opening apps. Swiping all around is better on iOS. For those of you saying vanilla android is better. Um, the Nexus 7 is vanilla and mine has noticeable scrolling lag on chrome and rendering issues for activities/fragments on apps.

Swiftkey is NOT more responsive than iOS keyboard. The only comparable keyboard for accuracy is the stock Android keyboard. Swype is Lso a gimmick in my eyes since when I use it (slowly so I see what I'm actually inputting) it gets words wrongs. When I do it fast, it still gets words wrong. Prediction, I'll give to you. Though for me, it has been pretty good on iOS and I use it to type papers and what not.

 

[bmac4]

I wish Google would just design a Nexus phone internally. There is no reason not to any more. With all due respect, a Nexus will never be more feature filled than any OEM flagship. And there is little aside from the unlocked bootloader and price that keeps it competitive against other flagships. The success of other flagships has also proven that consumers don't need to be on the latest and greatest, so unless a big new feature is coming in the next Android release they need to find a way to generate buzz for their device.

I was always skeptical as to how much "design" Google was actually involved in with the Nexus 4. I think a personally designed and sourced Google Nexus would oversee some of the shortcomings. Also I doubt the Nexus 4 cost $350 or that LG even sells to Google at cost.

As for a world phone, it's nice and all, but it's much more convenient to be a world reaching phone like the other three than a world phone. I've always argued that OEMs that are serious about developing a flagship device need to consider availability in all markets and not just an unlocked GSM phone.




That doesn't make my iPhone 5 any less of a world phone. Also, you can't tether on AT&T with unlimited data no matter what phone you use.

I am not saying it does make yours less of a world phone, but the iphone was made to work with certain bands of LTE depending on which carrier you bought the phone with. In the US you can buy an unlocked GSM iphone, but until the Tmobile version came out the LTE only worked on Att. Google wants nothing to do with carriers. They can do whatever they want with the phone in terms of software, and don't have to worry about what a carrier wants.

I know you can not tether on any unlimited data plan, but I can on my nexus 4 because it is unlocked free from AT&T phone. I have my iphone 5 unlocked from AT&T but guess what I still can't tether with it. That is what I have been trying to say this whole time. Sure Apple and its fans blame AT&T, but they still do whatever AT&T tells them. Google having a true unlocked phone no carrier what so ever telling them what to do. Is open to do what they want. I will continue tethering on my nexus 4.

 

[Dontazemebro]

Let's not forget, the Nexus was originally made with developers in mind. It's a developers phone first hence a lack of all the bells & whistles you see with HTC Sense and Samsung touchwiz . It was meant to be low cost and lacking features for a reason, and no it has nothing to do with angering the oem's (I laugh at that one)

It was never meant to be a flagship device.

 

[bmac4]

Let's not forget, the Nexus was originally made with developers in mind. It's a developers phone first hence a lack of all the bells & whistles you see with HTC Sense and Samsung touchwiz . It was meant to be low cost and lacking features for a reason, and no it has nothing to do with angering the oem's (I laugh at that one)

It was never meant to be a flagship device.

I said this once on this forum, and was told that maybe the nexus one was that but because this was such a cheap price for the phone. They are selling to consumers. I agree this is a very basic smartphone with outstanding software. I love the software could careless about a camera. Sure LTE would be nice, but it is a huge battery hog so no thanks.

 

[jrswizzle]

I said this once on this forum, and was told that maybe the nexus one was that but because this was such a cheap price for the phone. They are selling to consumers. I agree this is a very basic smartphone with outstanding software. I love the software could careless about a camera. Sure LTE would be nice, but it is a huge battery hog so no thanks.

Wrong.

This argument is pointless. First, one is selling their phone at $650 unlocked for a profit, while the other is selling at $350 to break even (maybe eek out a small profit).

The POM on each is likely similar, though I'd reckon Apple's is slightly higher given the materials used (and painstaking build process), the camera, the LTE radio and the display (yes despite size, the iP5 display uses new tech and a new process that is likely to up the cost).

You also have to factor in Apple's marketing costs, R&D costs, costs to ship and the fact they sell them not only direct but also through carriers, and that price difference becomes much more justified.

Regardless of all that however, Bmac and the poster above him are absolutely correct - the Nexus 4 isn't a flagship. Google doesn't create a flagship. They create a dev phone through another OEM (who likely see the project as a side-job that would give them free pub and cred in return for breaking even on the materials and build) which just so happens to be popular with a small portion of the smartphone buying public.

It isn't designed to be a flagship, nor does it sell like one (or is sold like one). I mean, how large is LG's marketshare? They're behind HTC here in the US, and HTC hasn't had a big seller in years (that changes this year though ). The Nexus 4 has likely sold a few million, but given its been out since November (and in roughly that same time period, the iPhone 5 has sold close to 40 million, the GS3 has sold tens of millions near the end of its first year), you can't expect it to be compared to a flagship.....hell, its got pretty good specs and is priced super low and it still doesn't sell.

It's not a flagship. At the $350 pricepoint, its a great smartphone. If it were priced at $650? It wouldn't even be worth a look.....at least, I would never look.....and I have one

----------

I wish Google would just design a Nexus phone internally. There is no reason not to any more. With all due respect, a Nexus will never be more feature filled than any OEM flagship. And there is little aside from the unlocked bootloader and price that keeps it competitive against other flagships. The success of other flagships has also proven that consumers don't need to be on the latest and greatest, so unless a big new feature is coming in the next Android release they need to find a way to generate buzz for their device.

I was always skeptical as to how much "design" Google was actually involved in with the Nexus 4. I think a personally designed and sourced Google Nexus would oversee some of the shortcomings. Also I doubt the Nexus 4 cost $350 or that LG even sells to Google at cost.

As for a world phone, it's nice and all, but it's much more convenient to be a world reaching phone like the other three than a world phone. I've always argued that OEMs that are serious about developing a flagship device need to consider availability in all markets and not just an unlocked GSM phone.




That doesn't make my iPhone 5 any less of a world phone. Also, you can't tether on AT&T with unlimited data no matter what phone you use.

That's actually incorrect.....I was able to tether on my Nexus 4 (bought from Google) and I have an unlimited plan.

Didn't think it would actually work, but I tried it out and sure enough.....

 

[bmac4]

Wrong.

This argument is pointless. First, one is selling their phone at $650 unlocked for a profit, while the other is selling at $350 to break even (maybe eek out a small profit).

The POM on each is likely similar, though I'd reckon Apple's is slightly higher given the materials used (and painstaking build process), the camera, the LTE radio and the display (yes despite size, the iP5 display uses new tech and a new process that is likely to up the cost).

You also have to factor in Apple's marketing costs, R&D costs, costs to ship and the fact they sell them not only direct but also through carriers, and that price difference becomes much more justified.

Regardless of all that however, Bmac and the poster above him are absolutely correct - the Nexus 4 isn't a flagship. Google doesn't create a flagship. They create a dev phone through another OEM (who likely see the project as a side-job that would give them free pub and cred in return for breaking even on the materials and build) which just so happens to be popular with a small portion of the smartphone buying public.

It isn't designed to be a flagship, nor does it sell like one (or is sold like one). I mean, how large is LG's marketshare? They're behind HTC here in the US, and HTC hasn't had a big seller in years (that changes this year though ). The Nexus 4 has likely sold a few million, but given its been out since November (and in roughly that same time period, the iPhone 5 has sold close to 40 million, the GS3 has sold tens of millions), you can't expect it to be compared to a flagship.....hell, its got pretty good specs and is priced super low and it still doesn't sell.

It's not a flagship. At the $350 pricepoint, its a great smartphone. If it were priced at $650? It wouldn't even be worth a look.....at least, I would never look.....and I have one

----------



That's actually incorrect.....I was able to tether on my Nexus 4 (bought from Google) and I have an unlimited plan.

Didn't think it would actually work, but I tried it out and sure enough.....

LTE being a battery hog is true for a lot of phones. Yes I know Apple figured it out more so then a lot of the android phones, but look at the galaxy nexus. The GSM one was much better on battery while the Verizon LTE one sucked. I think the new chips are more power efficient, but it still uses more battery than 3G.

Now I agree 100% that the nexus 4 is a dev phone. It is not suppose to be sold like the iphone and flagship android phones. It is there to be a showcase for software. I like it that way. If google started to worry about hardware and making everyone happy with that too. Things might not be as good on the software side.

 

[jrswizzle]

LTE being a battery hog is true for a lot of phones. Yes I know Apple figured it out more so then a lot of the android phones, but look at the galaxy nexus. The GSM one was much better on battery while the Verizon LTE one sucked. I think the new chips are more power efficient, but it still uses more battery than 3G.

Now I agree 100% that the nexus 4 is a dev phone. It is not suppose to be sold like the iphone and flagship android phones. It is there to be a showcase for software. I like it that way. If google started to worry about hardware and making everyone happy with that too. Things might not be as good on the software side.

You're talking about a phone that is over a year and a half old......

New chips don't eat up the battery. Why do you think Apple waited to implement LTE? They didn't want to have that battery issue everyone else was having. And since, we've seen LTE phones with similar if not better battery life - all with bigger, better displays and beefier processors.

To say LTE is still a battery hog isn't accurate.

As for vanilla Android - that's great you like it that way. I like the Nexus 4 as well, though I feel its a bit unpolished. The whole point is you have freedom to customize as you will, leaving it feeling unfinished out of the box.

Most people just prefer a more polished out-of-the-box experience. I'm not saying the Nexus 4 isn't usable when first opened, of course it is. But generally speaking OEM skins (most of them - depending on your preference) offer more polish initially - and Apple CERTAINLY does with the iPhone 5.

 

[bmac4]

You're talking about a phone that is over a year and a half old......

New chips don't eat up the battery. Why do you think Apple waited to implement LTE? They didn't want to have that battery issue everyone else was having. And since, we've seen LTE phones with similar if not better battery life - all with bigger, better displays and beefier processors.

To say LTE is still a battery hog isn't accurate.

Ok so it may not be a hog, but it still eats up battery faster than the 3G. I don't think that is why the nexus 4 does not have it, but if they do decide to add it then they be careful it does not effect the battery.

----------

As for vanilla Android - that's great you like it that way. I like the Nexus 4 as well, though I feel its a bit unpolished. The whole point is you have freedom to customize as you will, leaving it feeling unfinished out of the box.

Most people just prefer a more polished out-of-the-box experience. I'm not saying the Nexus 4 isn't usable when first opened, of course it is. But generally speaking OEM skins (most of them - depending on your preference) offer more polish initially - and Apple CERTAINLY does with the iPhone 5.

Yea I agree, but the nexus line is not looking for the polish right out of the box. Google leaves that for the OEMs to do with their phones. I like being able to do whatever I want with my nexus 4. I think that is part of the appeal of the nexus 4.

 

[jrswizzle]

Ok so it may not be a hog, but it still eats up battery faster than the 3G. I don't think that is why the nexus 4 does not have it, but if they do decide to add it then they be careful it does not effect the battery.

It doesn't eat battery faster! lol.....either it doesn't or batteries are better now so it doesn't matter.

The end result isn't LESS battery life on new LTE devices, rather most new devices (2012+) have BETTER battery life than their pre-2012 smartphone counterparts....

And the Nexus doesn't have it because of cost, IMO. Though the rumor is they'll be releasing a new Nexus 4 at I/O with LTE and 32 GB of storage.

----------

Yea I agree, but the nexus line is not looking for the polish right out of the box. Google leaves that for the OEMs to do with their phones. I like being able to do whatever I want with my nexus 4. I think that is part of the appeal of the nexus 4.

You are exactly right. To be quite honest, I'm not sure what you and sentinel are fighting about!

 

[bmac4]

It doesn't eat battery faster! lol.....either it doesn't or batteries are better now so it doesn't matter.

The end result isn't LESS battery life on new LTE devices, rather most new devices (2012+) have BETTER battery life than their pre-2012 smartphone counterparts....

And the Nexus doesn't have it because of cost, IMO. Though the rumor is they'll be releasing a new Nexus 4 at I/O with LTE and 32 GB of storage.

Then why in the setting of the iphone 5 does it say turn of LTE to save batter?

----------

It doesn't eat battery faster! lol.....either it doesn't or batteries are better now so it doesn't matter.

The end result isn't LESS battery life on new LTE devices, rather most new devices (2012+) have BETTER battery life than their pre-2012 smartphone counterparts....

And the Nexus doesn't have it because of cost, IMO. Though the rumor is they'll be releasing a new Nexus 4 at I/O with LTE and 32 GB of storage.

----------



You are exactly right. To be quite honest, I'm not sure what you and sentinel are fighting about!

He says that the nexus phones should be just as good as the flagships hardware wise. I am saying that is my what they are for.

 

[jrswizzle]

Then why in the setting of the iphone 5 does it say turn of LTE to save batter?

I don't know what menu you look at, but it doesn't say that anywhere on mine. (See pic attached below).

I typically turn my LTE off at the baseball game because everyone and their dog is on AT&T's LTE network, but no one is on the HSPA - I get better speeds on HSPA in those crowded situations.

He says that the nexus phones should be just as good as the flagships hardware wise. I am saying that is my what they are for.

He wishes he could have a Nexus phone with the specs of a flagship....what's wrong with that?

 

[jrswizzle]

Here's the attachment:

 

[bmac4]

I don't know what menu you look at, but it doesn't say that anywhere on mine. (See pic attached below).

I typically turn my LTE off at the baseball game because everyone and their dog is on AT&T's LTE network, but no one is on the HSPA - I get better speeds on HSPA in those crowded situations.



He wishes he could have a Nexus phone with the specs of a flagship....what's wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with it, but complaining and saying the nexus devices are made with corners cut is crazy. I understand he want flagship hardware, but that does not mean google cuts corners to make the nexus 4. They built it the way they wanted it. He keeps says they are making the nexus phone less so they OEMs will be happy. He says they want their flagships to be better than the nexus. I disagree.

The LTE thing on iOS. I thought for sure at some point it said that. Maybe I am wrong. Oh well.

 

[tjl3]

That's actually incorrect.....I was able to tether on my Nexus 4 (bought from Google) and I have an unlimited plan.

Didn't think it would actually work, but I tried it out and sure enough.....

That's messed up! I received a text from AT&T about forcing me off of my grandfathered plan! Not that it actually matters any more, coverage in my home and at work was awful so I had to move to Verizon.

Surprisingly this doesn't get mentioned more: eventho I don't think it is a deal breaker, the fact that the Verizon iPhone 5 cannot do data and voice simultaneously has been a disappointment. I know it is suggested they could've remedied this w/ another internal antenna, but I think Apple dropped the ball on this one.

 

[adnbek]

Nothing is wrong with it, but complaining and saying the nexus devices are made with corners cut is crazy. I understand he want flagship hardware, but that does not mean google cuts corners to make the nexus 4. They built it the way they wanted it. He keeps says they are making the nexus phone less so they OEMs will be happy. He says they want their flagships to be better than the nexus. I disagree.

The LTE thing on iOS. I thought for sure at some point it said that. Maybe I am wrong. Oh well.

This is incorrect, at least for the iPhone 5 and phones that would use the same 3G/LTE combo chip. (Dunno if there are other phones doing so. AFAIK, not yet.)

On the iPhone 5, assuming all other things being equal (I elaborate further below), the difference in power consumption between LTE and 3G modes is negligible. In fact, all else being equal, you get better battery life on LTE due to the data loading faster, meaning the antenna and chip don't have to be powered for as long. They can power down back to idle much quicker.

The only scenario where 3G would be better for battery life has to do with signal strength. In areas where you get poor LTE reception but max bars on 3G, you'd definitely save battery by being in 3G mode, due to the antenna using more power on LTE where signal strength is weak.

 

[bmac4]

This is incorrect, at least for the iPhone 5 and phones that would use the same 3G/LTE combo chip. (Dunno if there are other phones doing so. AFAIK, not yet.)

On the iPhone 5, assuming all other things being equal (I elaborate further below), the difference in power consumption between LTE and 3G modes is negligible. In fact, all else being equal, you get better battery life on LTE due to the data loading faster, meaning the antenna and chip don't have to be powered for as long. They can power down back to idle much quicker.

The only scenario where 3G would be better for battery life has to do with signal strength. In areas where you get poor LTE reception but max bars on 3G, you'd definitely save battery by being in 3G mode, due to the antenna using more power on LTE where signal strength is weak.

OK maybe so. I have seen no proof that LTE does not use up more battery than 3g. You guys may be right, bit no one has shown me anything saying this. I know for a fact my iPhone 5 gets worse batter than my iPhone 4 did. Noe this could be because of bigger screen, and processor. But Apple added a bigger battery so I thought that would take care of that. Again I could be wrong.

 

[sentinelsx]

How much was the wireless charger and NFC in an iPhone? It obviously doesn't have them. So I'd say that's more expensive would you?

The batteries are the same tech so that's more expensive.

Twice the amount of ram. Obviously more expensive.

The screen is more likely more expensive just from its size. I'm just assuming that though.

The Nexus 4 camera isn't as good but its not completely terrible either. The iPhone has the best camera or very close too it so anything else is technically crappier in comparison.

Unless you are saying a different radio and moderately but unarguably better camera is 350 dollars? It seems that you keep going back to the Nexus's camera when you mention cutting corners, then over look everything else which is technically better.

Build quality, screen, camera etc.

The NFC and other chips cost probably a few cents more on the nexus. Ram, CPU, and radio etc aren't the biggest costs in a smartphone. A CPU costs around $2-$5 when bought in wholesale and same for ram.

----------

Yea you just said it. That LTE is a must have does not work across the world. You bought an unlocked iPhone 5, but it was based on your carriers LTE not the world. You could not cone to the states and have its LTE work on all our LTE towers. What I am saying is the nexus phone was made to work around the world on gsm networks. That LTE you praise so much does not work.

And the rest of the phones do not work on the gsm networks world wide?

You said nexus is special because it is unlocked and works around the world and others don't.

Then I show you others work too. The fact LTe doesn't is because the carriers don't have it, but hspa does. Because all of those phones have the frequencies that make the nexus so special for you. Except there is nothing special about an unlocked nexus. It is no different from a sim unlocked galaxy s3 or 2 even.

 

[bmac4]

Build quality, screen, camera etc.

The NFC and other chips cost probably a few cents more on the nexus. Ram, CPU, and radio etc aren't the biggest costs in a smartphone. A CPU costs around $2-$5 when bought in wholesale and same for ram.

----------



And the rest of the phones do not work on the gsm networks world wide?

You said nexus is special because it is unlocked and works around the world and others don't.

Then I show you others work too. The fact LTe doesn't is because the carriers don't have it, but hspa does. Because all of those phones have the frequencies that make the nexus so special for you. Except there is nothing special about an unlocked nexus. It is no different from a sim unlocked galaxy s3 or 2 even.

Yea here in the states people don't buy phones like iPhone unlocked. Nexus 4 is one of the few phone sold unlocked out of the box. Your iPhone is the greatest phone ever made. You are always right and the nexus is crap. I guess that covers everything you want people to say. Sorry you have no clue what me and everyone else have been saying about the nexus line. They are not made to suit your taste, so why bother. They never will be so keep your iPhone and stop using android. It is really very simple.

 

[adnbek]

OK maybe so. I have seen no proof that LTE does not use up more battery than 3g. You guys may be right, bit no one has shown me anything saying this. I know for a fact my iPhone 5 gets worse batter than my iPhone 4 did. Noe this could be because of bigger screen, and processor. But Apple added a bigger battery so I thought that would take care of that. Again I could be wrong.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6330/the-iphone-5-review/13

And if you go to the previous page, it explains why the 5 does worse than the 4 in certain situations. The CPU/GPU have a much larger power profile dynamic range and at their highest frequencies, the 5 will consume a lot more power than the 4 and will drain the battery quicker when they're pushed to their limits. At idle and lower frequencies, the 5 uses much less than the 4 however.

So how quick the phone goes to idle really determines its overall battery performance. If playing a high intensity game however where both phones are pushed to their max constantly, the 5 will definitely drain quicker. If you're doing stuff that allows the GPU/CPU to throttle down back to idle faster than the 4, it's the opposite.

Again, back to the 3g/LTE discussion, most battery drainage on LTE is due to signal strength being worse than on 3G in many areas, forcing the antenna to use more power to keep the connection alive. That's definitely the only reason people find their battery draining quicker on LTE. A 1-2 bar signal on LTE will kill your battery faster than a 5-bar 3G one. Doesn't help that LTE has poor penetrative qualities so, inside of buildings, that signal strength will drop measurably faster on LTE than on 3G.

EDIT: Not to mention the drain caused by the phone being forced to switch modes in the situations described above. Inside the mall for instance, I'll find my phone go from LTE to 3G due to loss of signal, then back to LTE when it can, then back to 3G if signal gets too weak again. Every time it has to switch, the antenna is forced out of idle mode to perform the handshake/send off.

Apple even states battery consumption is similar (in certain tests under ideal signal strength conditions) with both when they state 8hrs of web browsing on both 3G and LTE. The anandtech test shows significantly worse life on 3G than LTE in their specific test probably due to keeps the antennas active (data heavy sites) for much longer than the test Apple used.

 

[adnbek]

I am not saying it does make yours less of a world phone, but the iphone was made to work with certain bands of LTE depending on which carrier you bought the phone with. In the US you can buy an unlocked GSM iphone, but until the Tmobile version came out the LTE only worked on Att. Google wants nothing to do with carriers. They can do whatever they want with the phone in terms of software, and don't have to worry about what a carrier wants.

In GSM mode, both phones are equally universal and both can be bought unlocked out of the box. (or unlocked after the fact) There is absolutely no difference between the two.

As for LTE fragmentation, you can't fault Apple for that. The technology didn't exist to have one chip that can support all the bands used worlwide. Don't forget that LTE is still a technology in its infancy. Only recently has a new chip been designed that can support a multitude of bands at once. That wasn't the case back when the 5 came out, hence why they had to release different models for different bands.

Pretty similar to when GSM chips weren't universal back in the day. Same thing.

 

[bmac4]

In GSM mode, both phones are equally universal and both can be bought unlocked out of the box. (or unlocked after the fact) There is absolutely no difference between the two.

As for LTE fragmentation, you can't fault Apple for that. The technology didn't exist to have one chip that can support all the bands used worlwide. Don't forget that LTE is still a technology in its infancy. Only recently has a new chip been designed that can support a multitude of bands at once. That wasn't the case back when the 5 came out, hence why they had to release different models for different bands.

Pretty similar to when GSM chips weren't universal back in the day. Same thing.

Yea I know. I am just saying it has LTE because of the carriers. There is really nothing like the nexus 4 in terms of being purely unlocked. From what I understand getting LTE on a phone that is not on a carrier is pretty hard. I know the nexus 4 does not have some things but I am ok with that.

 

[cynics]

The POM on each is likely similar, though I'd reckon Apple's is slightly higher given the materials used (and painstaking build process), the camera, the LTE radio and the display (yes despite size, the iP5 display uses new tech and a new process that is likely to up the cost).

Its no secret that about half of the cost of the iPhone is pure profit, some estimate much higher.

If that weren't the case the cellular iPad 4 which has better tech and much more material (same screen much bigger, huge battery, bigger case, basically bigger and better everything) wouldn't be significantly less expensive. And there is still a huge profit margin on that.

That's the difference. Profit.

And once again your also leaving out the NFC, and wireless charger. Am I supposed to believe the processor and ram in the N4 are just a couple no big deal cents but the VASTLY superior camera in the iPhone 5 is big time cost difference? Even you have to admit that's a bit silly to say.

I don't really agree with the painstaking build process either. I've taken every iPhone apart and it takes an amateur like myself few minutes using ifixit.com directions. Not much to it really. There are plenty of things I wouldn't even attempt like a Swiss watch, but a phone assembled on a Chinese factory line in under a minute isn't one of them.

Some of these Asian factories are quite amazing. I bought a Yamaha R6 and I saw an episode of "How it's made" where they were building them. The bike I paid 9k for took 46 minutes to build, test and ship. Painstaking?Yes. Expensive? Quite the opposite.

 

[adnbek]

I don't really agree with the painstaking build process either. I've taken every iPhone apart and it takes an amateur like myself few minutes using ifixit.com directions. Not much to it really. There are plenty of things I wouldn't even attempt like a Swiss watch, but a phone assembled on a Chinese factory line in under a minute isn't one of them.

Some of these Asian factories are quite amazing. I bought a Yamaha R6 and I saw an episode of "How it's made" where they were building them. The bike I paid 9k for took 46 minutes to build, test and ship. Painstaking?Yes. Expensive? Quite the opposite.

Assembly is not the expensive part of the process. It's the design, engineering and machining of the aluminum shell. It's also the design and engineering of the custom parts that need to be made specifically to fit perfectly within the confines of said shell.

I'll use an analogy with laptops. Here are examples of Apple laptops here and here compared to the innards of typical PC laptops. Notice a difference? I sure do.

For a design and engineering freak like me, there clearly is a difference in the design precision and engineering it takes to manufacture parts to fit so tightly and perfectly like that. There is also a cost difference as you can't just use standard parts to achieve this. They must be custom made and that is not a cheap endeavour. It's a lot cheaper to just put together a bunch of standard parts and slap a case around the final product, instead of doing it the other way around.