So would you really miss Flash ?

[Bytor65]

Only thing I will miss Flash with is the pron video streaming sites.

Ah yes, I seem to remember that lack of Pron was going to kill Blu Ray.

But fear not, a quick google search including the iPhone keyword shows there are no lack of flashless alternatives.

For Video of any type, the iPads lack of flash will likely be a non issue sooner rather than later.

Then it will be the few sites that still use flash navigation.

 

[macduke]

No.

Wait, correction:

No, after the Hulu app is approved.

But until then, it's not a big deal.

 

[qtx43]

Only thing I will miss Flash with is the pron video streaming sites.

Pron video? What's that? Did you mean Prawn Video?

 

[lancestraz]

Pron video? What's that? Did you mean Prawn Video?

Porn.

 

[RMXO]

Ah yes, I seem to remember that lack of Pron was going to kill Blu Ray.

But fear not, a quick google search including the iPhone keyword shows there are no lack of flashless alternatives.

For Video of any type, the iPads lack of flash will likely be a non issue sooner rather than later.

Then it will be the few sites that still use flash navigation.

I know there are alternatives but I currently only have free memberships to ones that have flash streaming video's. Yeah, I need to try harder but I will once the situation is arises.

Pron video? What's that? Did you mean Prawn Video?

Porn.

What ^ said.

 

[Gymgenius]

I won't miss flash. I didn't miss it on my iPhone, so I'm sure I'm not going to miss it on the iPad.

 

[EssentialParado]

To you guys who want Flash: If Apple's decision to not have Flash led most websites to redesign their site's content into HTML 5 content, would you still be asking for Flash support?

The perfect point already made in this thread is that it's the content you're asking for, not Flash.

Also, you need to consider all of the advantages that come if Apple does require websites to move to HTML 5 - not only would video and interactive content work on your iPad and iPhone, but it would actually vastly improve the speed and reliability of browsing the web on your desktop browser too. Not only that, but especially Linux, OS X, and disabled users would be rejoicing the world over at finally being able to access all this content properly.

Speak for yourself and your personal "browning" experience.

Couldn't help but laugh out loud at that.

 

[samcraig]

To you guys who want Flash: If Apple's decision to not have Flash led most websites to redesign their site's content into HTML 5 content, would you still be asking for Flash support?

The perfect point already made in this thread is that it's the content you're asking for, not Flash.

Couldn't help but laugh out loud at that.

If people were handing out a million dollars to everyone that walked by and said hello - would you say hello?

The problem with the scenario you're setting up is that at current HTML5 doesn't offer all the same features as Flash - IE - security. As someone who works for a news organization and streams/posts videos which are copy written/protected - this isn't acceptable. Yes - no video is truly ever really secure - but at least there are methods in place which make it "challenging" to the general populous.

EP - I know you're anti-flash - and I understand your reasons. But consider this. If you spent a year of your life making a film or video - which you took out loans, etc and had the choice between putting it on a website that could prevent people from saving it locally and distributing it without your permission (just as an example) vs. having it delivered in a secure manner. Which would you honestly choose.

I'm not at all against HTML5. Not because I think Flash is the devil - but because HTML5 is "cleaner" and easier/faster to code. But HTML5 has limitations which at the moment are unacceptable to some. Just like Flash's bugginess is unacceptable.

 

[tkermit]

I'd kinda like to have Nike+ access from my iPad...

 

[MultiFinder17]

I don't miss it on any of my computers (ClickToFlash FTW!), so I highly doubt that I would ever miss it on the iPad. The WWW becomes a far more friendly place without flash in my opinion.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Many many people play flash games on Facebook. These can not be done using HTML5, so many many people will miss flash on the iPad.

 

[samcraig]

A lot of movie sites use flash too. Do they have html versions. Sometimes. Sometimes not. The experience without flash though is pretty dull in comparison to what they are with flash. Seems like Hollywood likes the "clunky" piece of programming

 

[Xenoxide]

Is Adobe getting worried about the HTML5 threat?

http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-html5-standards-blocking-and-the-evil-of-the-private-backroom

Adobe raised an objection to the latest draft of the HTML5 spec in the last W3C meeting, but refuses to allow the objection to be made public. Fishy much?

Nonetheless, to answer the original question, no I wouldn't. I have had an iPhone since November 2007 (UK launch), first the 2G now the 3G (Missing the 3GS though). I can only think of one occasion where I've actually gone "damn that sucks", and I can't even remember what it was now.

 

[samcraig]

Is Adobe getting worried about the HTML5 threat?

http://ajaxian.com/archives/adobe-html5-standards-blocking-and-the-evil-of-the-private-backroom

Adobe raised an objection to the latest draft of the HTML5 spec in the last W3C meeting, but refuses to allow the objection to be made public. Fishy much?

Nonetheless, to answer the original question, no I wouldn't. I have had an iPhone since November 2007 (UK launch), first the 2G now the 3G (Missing the 3GS though). I can only think of one occasion where I've actually gone "damn that sucks", and I can't even remember what it was now.

When you go looking for trouble - eventually you'll find it. Or make your own assumptions. Why not wait until the information is made public before assuming something's fishy and/or finding out what the objection was about.

If Apple had done the same thing at the meeting - would you have posted THAT story?

 

[Xenoxide]

When you go looking for trouble - eventually you'll find it. Or make your own assumptions. Why not wait until the information is made public before assuming something's fishy and/or finding out what the objection was about.

If Apple had done the same thing at the meeting - would you have posted THAT story?

Yes. I'm a web developer that follows standards CLOSELY. Currently I'm using using XHTML 1.0 with CSS2, but I'm learning about HTML 5 and CSS3 and evaluating possible ways of moving to them while maintaining maximum compatibility with modern browsers.

If Apple was ever to do anything that jeapardises the development of any of the future web standards through any sort of private objection, you bet I'd be jumping up and down on their back. More so infact as I hold Apple to a higher standard, being a fan of their products. If the objection is valid, then fair enough. But keeping it private so that a proper debate on the subject is impossible is inexcusable, which is why I originally made the comment.

I have long objected to the use of Flash by designers for the purposes of entire websites. I have no objection to bits and bobs of animation and interactivity here and there as that is what it was originally developed for, even if there are arguably better solutions now. My main objection to Flash is it's stability and speed, not so much on desktop computers but on mobile devices. Ever tried Flash on Android? It's not a good experience.

 

[samcraig]

I have long objected to the use of Flash by designers for the purposes of entire websites. I have no objection to bits and bobs of animation and interactivity here and there as that is what it was originally developed for, even if there are arguably better solutions now. My main objection to Flash is it's stability and speed, not so much on desktop computers but on mobile devices. Ever tried Flash on Android? It's not a good experience.

Well said. And I agree. I don't think should have ever hit mainstream (i.e. full websites) At the very least - and I know there are work arounds - any site that's fully flash has crap SEO ability. And in this day and age it's important. Also - navigation tends to go to the wayside and is usually garbage on an all flash site.

Flash should have (and whenever I have used it) be an element on a site or to achieve something not possible otherwise. Not just "because". It's like when people went crazy with animated GIFs.

My biggest "+" for flash at the moment though is secure video delivery.

 

[madmak]

Make the following 2 apps and most people will not complain about lack of flash

1. Hulu
2. Megavideo

 

[dzave]

It seems Apple mobile devices could have the power to influence the content creators so maybe we will see a slight shift away from Flash dominance. I only wonder if things would have changed sooner if Flash on the Mac was not possible. I am all for a more secure standard like HTML5 but it sounds like things are not set in stone yet and a battle is going on with the video codecs so who knows.

Many don't approve when Apple forces the hand on issues like this but overall I think they have our best interest in mind. If Flash was secure and stable on the Mac while using resources properly it probably would have made its way to iPhone/iPad.

Content creators don't need to fully move away from Flash all together just provide the same content via an equal alternative based on the browser that visits.

 

[samcraig]

It seems Apple mobile devices could have the power to influence the content creators so maybe we will see a slight shift away from Flash dominance. I only wonder if things would have changed sooner if Flash on the Mac was not possible.

I think even Jobs knows that if the desktop/laptop systems didn't allow for flash he'd have major issues on his hand that he couldn't excuse. On portable devices he has a little more "justification" so to speak

 

[dzave]

I think even Jobs knows that if the desktop/laptop systems didn't allow for flash he'd have major issues on his hand that he couldn't excuse. On portable devices he has a little more "justification" so to speak

Good point, I didn't look at it that way. While he took the heat for that it probably would put a little more focus on why so Adobe may move a little faster on fixing things for this platform despite the overall low numbers of users that make up. They would not want the negative publicity.

 

[Xenoxide]

It seems Apple mobile devices could have the power to influence the content creators so maybe we will see a slight shift away from Flash dominance. I only wonder if things would have changed sooner if Flash on the Mac was not possible.

I don't think so. The Mac has always had a small market share on the web, and history has shown that content creators have been happy to exclude it from the party. They'd rather develop for the 80% of Windows users than spend additional time and money on the other 20%.

The iPhone is a bit different as it is so prevalent. To leave iPhone users out is frankly silly.

I am all for a more secure standard like HTML5 but it sounds like things are not set in stone yet and a battle is going on with the video codecs so who knows.

I don't think the codecs are the main problem, although it would be nice if there was a general consensus on them. As it stands theres nothing to stop the provider uploading both an OGG and H.264 version as the relevant browsers will happilly ignore the ones it isn't compatible with.

I think the main problem with HTML 5 and video, is as samcraig says, there is a lack of secure delivery for the video files. The HTML 5 spec does not allow for any form of DRM, and so as it stands there is nothing to stop users viewing the source, getting the URL for the movie, and simply downloading it. Content providers will not like this.

Flash has the upper hand in this regard in that the mix of the Flash plug-in for playing the videos and Flash Media Server to serve them provides a very secure way of serving up videos on your site.

 

[killerrobot]

I don't miss flash on my iPhone, but I tend not to use sites with flash and usually only spend 5 minutes max on the web at a time using it.

If I bought an iPad, because of it's size and intended uses, I would definitely miss flash just as I would on any computer.

 

[Sydde]

Does anyone remember before Flash was common? There was this other content deliver method, what was it called, some island near China or something like that. I think Sun Microsystems originally developed it.

There were these things called "applets" that could live on pages and do almost anything Flash can do now. I believe the problem that Flash addressed was that making these "applets" required a significant amount of skill, while a Flash thingy could be knocked out very quickly by any old TD|H.

And, as I understand it, modern ARM CPU architecture directly supports this older thing. It would seem that the only difference between "applets" and Flash thingies is that there is a lack of tools for simplifying the creation of "applets". Perhaps someone will address that.

 

[kdarling]

A lot of kids' and gaming sites use Flash. A device without the capability to use those sites is worthless to those users.

As I keep saying, if Apple is serious about HTML5, then they could put their money where their mouth is:

1) Come up with an equivalent HTML5 authoring tool.

2) Get their buddies at Disney to rewrite their entire site without Flash.

3) Make SVG on mobile Safari quicker, instead of handwaving about Adobe slowness.

4) Coax websites to create _standardized_ HTML5 mobile versions that aren't tied to the iPhone Safari specific meta-tags to look good.

Otherwise, they look more like they're hiding company politics and feuds behind an HTML5 excuse.

.

 

[Intenost]

I work for one of the world's largest s/w companies, and our customer support system has a Flash-based front end. So it would be difficult to see an iPad replacing my laptop for business travel. If I get an iPad it will be for entertainment. I can live without Flash for entertainment but I would prefer to have the choice. I do understand the challenge though, I am on a new MacBook Pro 17", and with Flash running in Safari, at least 1/4 of my 2.8 GHz CPU is dedicated to Safari and the Flash plug in.

OK, I know there are some things that do need Flash and I agree the iPad just wont work. I've been thinking since the announcement should I get one, the only thing stopping me is the lack of Flash.

So for the past week I've disabled Flash on my Macbook to see how I get on, and I've got to be honest for me, I don't think I'll miss it that much. The only real issue would be playing news videos on the BBC website.

One positive thing about not having Flash, is the majority of these annoying moving and flashing adverts go, sure you still get adds, but there just jpg or simple gif, that must be a good enouth reason to disable Flash

So if your not sure, disable Flash for a week and see how you get on. If you find a site or activity that doesn't work then check the App store there maybe an App for it....

Would be interesting to see your comments.