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stylinexpat

macrumors 68020
Mar 6, 2009
2,108
4,549
I agree.. Apple needs to get their shi* together and offer a better MBA and offer a better 13" MBP as well. The 13" MBP is like twice the weight of the Z. The Z is half the weight with double the resolution while the MBP 13: has worse resolution and weight. Apple needs to upgrade their products and upgrade very soon too.
 

Scott6666

macrumors 68000
Feb 2, 2008
1,513
982
I just have to say, it's pretty ignorant to say the Mac Mini is the only Mac Apple has seriously updated this year. The new i5/i7 MacBook Pros are by far the finest notebooks Apple has ever released. I can run Maya on a laptop well, finally.

It didn't get a big CPU speed boost, but the white MacBook and the 13 inch MBP were also changed in ways that really made them a great value. My 13 inch Macbook DOES have a 10 hour battery, which is astonishing. It can also run TF2. Those are significant upgrades that really add to the user experience.

Other than the redesigned case and HDMI port, what one earth is awesome about the new Mac Mini? It looks like the last gen Apple TV now? WOW. I have a Mac Mini server from the previous generation, and am not tempted at all to upgrade - there is no significant increase in performance.

With every day that goes by, the Macbook Air feels like a product of the past - not the future.

Agreed. My 15" MBP i7 is fantastic. I can't think of another computer I would replace it with now so hard to say Apple is not staying up with the competition.

I wish the Air would be updated to be something decent but I believe that the problems between nVidia and Intel have more do with that than almost anything else.
 

Spacekatgal

macrumors regular
Jun 9, 2009
203
0
Agreed. My 15" MBP i7 is fantastic. I can't think of another computer I would replace it with now so hard to say Apple is not staying up with the competition.

I wish the Air would be updated to be something decent but I believe that the problems between nVidia and Intel have more do with that than almost anything else.

It's a truly amazing box. Photoshop CS5 runs so well on it. Starcraft II also looks great. I have yet to buy something on Steam that doesn't look beautiful on it.

And when it comes to work, it can handle anything I throw at it. I just have nothing but highly positive things to say.
 

MartiNZ

macrumors 65816
Apr 10, 2008
1,223
125
Auckland, New Zealand
Far out the Vaio Z just becomes more and more impressive every couple of months! As opposed to the Air, which becomes less and less impressive every day :(.

Hopefully whatever these 11.6" rumoured screens are doing they are doing it in 1080p as well! I would ditch my '08 15" MBP with known faulty GPU like *that* if Apple could do something close to as impressive a spec - and the Z has the 330 discrete GPU that is in only the 15" MBPs!? If they can keep that all going without ridiculous heat issues, I can see no downsides. Having as 3 of my 4 Mac laptops have had to have logicboard replacements, it can hardly be worse! I'll wait to see if anything comes of the 11.6" thing in the next few months, and then maybe look at what will probably be the NEXT revision of the Vaio Z at that point :D.

And no problem software-wise, other than iTunes's sucking I have very few issues with Windows 7; in fact fewer bugs that annoy me than with OS X.
 

CaoCao

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2010
783
2
NOT TRUE. The MBA has a LOW VOLTAGE CPU NOT a ULV nor CULV. Get it straight if you're going to make these assertions.

The MBA also has a CPU to upgrade to, Intel provides the Core i7-6x0LM low voltage CPU as the successor to the C2D SL9x00 CPUs in the MBA. These are NOT CULV CPUs either... they run at 2.13 GHz and boost to 2.93 GHz... who doesn't consider that an upgrade???

Apple's issue is solely that it only has its vision on the iOS products and software right now. Until it can do multiple things at once, we're stuck with an outdated MBA. In addition, I consider all the 13" Mac offerings and Mac mini SERIOUSLY AND COMPLETELY OUTDATED. One cannot tell me that a two year old chipset and CPU combination is updated or current in any way. The 320m is the same old thing as the 9400m; just in a work that was created as the successor design to the 9400m, the 320m was probably designed before the v 2,1 MBA was released in October 2008. That is two full years.

In addition, I believe the 15" and 17" MBPs lacked any innovation in their most recent updates... the only update this year that actually moved forward were the iMac updates... and it wasn't a whole lot of progress. Until Apple is willing to let go of some cash and EXPAND its operations to allow development of BOTH iOS and Mac product lines, we're stuck with old low-grade components in high-grade casing (that is inexpensive just nice to look at), and we're stuck paying high prices for outdated Macs that don't compare in any way to competitors... this is Apple holding its OS hostage and nothing more. It knows its fan base will put up with this crap, because it's the only way they can run OS X... sorta ignorant on their behalf, because Windows 7 is completely successful and just as stable as OS X. Until Apple is willing to innovate its Macs, it will continue to sell to us old faithful idiots but not expand to a new customer base wanting new Macs before shelling out premium cash for old components in a pretty shell with a hostage-held OS.

The MBA CPU uses 17W and the Core i7-6x0LM uses 25 whats, that is almost 50% more power draw so your arguement is utterly baseless.

Have a nice day
PS the MBA is old high grade components in a high grade casing
 

Ace134blue

macrumors 6502a
Sep 17, 2009
734
2
Scott, you must be eager to get one :). Why not get the new sony vaio?
Anyways, im guessing we'll hear something in November.

Seriously why do you want an update so bad? The air might be outdated but its a good netbook. If you want a fast computer than get a macbook pro. You cant have both you know.
 

Perdification

macrumors regular
Sep 22, 2010
202
0
THE MBA HAS THE BEST CPU FOR THE TDP, THERE IS NOTHING BETTER!!!!!!

I'm being serious, the CULV i7s top out at a whooping 1.33GHz, now I know i7>C2D, but it isn't 50% better

But I guess we're never going to see i7s in MBA anyway.
 

Perdification

macrumors regular
Sep 22, 2010
202
0
The MBA CPU uses 17W and the Core i7-6x0LM uses 25 whats, that is almost 50% more power draw so your arguement is utterly baseless.

Have a nice day
PS the MBA is old high grade components in a high grade casing

Heh, I like the way you put it: "the MBA is old high grade components in a high grade casing"
 

CaoCao

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2010
783
2
I just have to say, it's pretty ignorant to say the Mac Mini is the only Mac Apple has seriously updated this year. The new i5/i7 MacBook Pros are by far the finest notebooks Apple has ever released. I can run Maya on a laptop well, finally.

It didn't get a big CPU speed boost, but the white MacBook and the 13 inch MBP were also changed in ways that really made them a great value. My 13 inch Macbook DOES have a 10 hour battery, which is astonishing. It can also run TF2. Those are significant upgrades that really add to the user experience.

Other than the redesigned case and HDMI port, what one earth is awesome about the new Mac Mini? It looks like the last gen Apple TV now? WOW. I have a Mac Mini server from the previous generation, and am not tempted at all to upgrade - there is no significant increase in performance.

With every day that goes by, the Macbook Air feels like a product of the past - not the future.
I love how the MacBook (Pro) is a medium powered laptop with very long life (in some cases four times as much as a similar laptop)
I agree.. Apple needs to get their shi* together and offer a better MBA and offer a better 13" MBP as well. The 13" MBP is like twice the weight of the Z. The Z is half the weight with double the resolution while the MBP 13: has worse resolution and weight. Apple needs to upgrade their products and upgrade very soon too.
One would expect that a laptop which is almost twice as expensive as a MBP 13" is better
Agreed. My 15" MBP i7 is fantastic. I can't think of another computer I would replace it with now so hard to say Apple is not staying up with the competition.

I wish the Air would be updated to be something decent but I believe that the problems between nVidia and Intel have more do with that than almost anything else.
Or maybe the lack of better CPUs?
Far out the Vaio Z just becomes more and more impressive every couple of months! As opposed to the Air, which becomes less and less impressive every day :(.

Hopefully whatever these 11.6" rumoured screens are doing they are doing it in 1080p as well! I would ditch my '08 15" MBP with known faulty GPU like *that* if Apple could do something close to as impressive a spec - and the Z has the 330 discrete GPU that is in only the 15" MBPs!? If they can keep that all going without ridiculous heat issues, I can see no downsides. Having as 3 of my 4 Mac laptops have had to have logicboard replacements, it can hardly be worse! I'll wait to see if anything comes of the 11.6" thing in the next few months, and then maybe look at what will probably be the NEXT revision of the Vaio Z at that point :D.

And no problem software-wise, other than iTunes's sucking I have very few issues with Windows 7; in fact fewer bugs that annoy me than with OS X.
Beware, the VAIO Z SSD isn't user upgradeable
Scott, you must be eager to get one :). Why not get the new sony vaio?
Anyways, im guessing we'll hear something in November.

Seriously why do you want an update so bad? The air might be outdated but its a good netbook. If you want a fast computer than get a macbook pro. You cant have both you know.
It is still a netbook powerhouse
But I guess we're never going to see i7s in MBA anyway.
next year we could
Heh, I like the way you put it: "the MBA is old high grade components in a high grade casing"
it is the truth, though IMO an upgrade is next year; IIRC the CPU replacement is coming Q2 2011
 

ahlong

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2010
14
0
I have been waiting for MBA update for half a year..
I have given up yesterday and took advantage of a huge price drop on the Custom Configured Vaio Z12 from Sony Style Canada...

For
$1310 CAD + Tax

I got:
i7 620m
2GB Ram (planning to upgrade to 8GB myself)
1600 x 900 LED Backlit 13" LCD
Backlit KB
Aluminum + Magnesium Frame
Dual 64GB SSD @ RAID 0
Switchable Graphics w/ GT330m
DVD Writer
Extended 9 Cell Battery
~3lbs weight

Sony also threw in a free set of noise cancelling headphones..

For the same price.. this machine is running way faster than my MBP..
I, like many others on this forum are willing to pay a premium for OSX, but the wait has been too long.. and I suspect if the MBA has anything that's comparable to the Z that I just ordered, it would easily cost over $3k
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Original poster
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
The MBA CPU uses 17W and the Core i7-6x0LM uses 25 whats, that is almost 50% more power draw so your arguement is utterly baseless.

Have a nice day
PS the MBA is old high grade components in a high grade casing

Maybe you should get the JEST of the update to the CPUs. There is no longer a NorthBridge nor is there a GPU of 12 W TDP to take care of... the 25W handles it ALL. So, it's in fact the same class CPU.

Apple's MBA is currently at 29W TDP. Move to this and they're at 25W TDP. Don't want to use the IGP, turn it off and save 8W TDP and you're right back at 17W TDP for the CPU. Add in an ATI 5430 at 7W, and look where we're at??? Don't know about adding in 4W more for the NorthBridge as I am not completely certain of where the Intel Core i7-6x0LM ends up with IGP disabled... but ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT, WITH OR WITHOUT INTEL'S IGP, APPLE HAS A SOLUTION THAT MEETS OR EXCEEDS CURRENT ENERGY REQUIREMENTS!

So, while "technically" you're correct, in all truth you're completely off the mark. This is why the MBA should have been updated...

Now, go on to the other "ideas of innovation" that are rumored for the MBA. Use the Core i7-6x0UM series CPUs. Disable the IGP. Overclock the CPU because the power requirements for the IGP are no longer necessary, and guess what, we have an 18W CPU that runs faster than 2.13 GHz... supposedly in the 2.5 GHz range overclocked. Not requiring any more power, as the IGP doesn't get any of the power... add in 7W TDP for an ATI 5430, and look where we're at... enough said?

Seriously, I expect better arguments when people are going to act like I'm an ***** idiot with my posts. There is just a slight bit of thinking and foresight into the situation and specs when I make claims as these... are the rumors true? IDFK, but until I hear Intel say the ULV Core i7-6x0UM CPUs cannot be overclocked to run the CPU die at a higher clock speed and disable the IGP die to allow the performance gains of the CPU die, I am going to expect it's a plausible possibility... NOT necessarily what Apple WILL do but IT IS RUMORED!

Now, back to the 15" MBPs, okay. So Apple doesn't innovate one bit, but adopts the new and relevant CPU, and we all should ***** act like it's incredible? WHAT? We all expect Core i-series CPUs, I WANT INNOVATION on top of that. In addition, 50% of the time when the 15"/17" MBPs are stuck in a rut saving "precious power" they're running a worthless Intel IGP. That means the 13" MBP is actually outperforming the 15" MBP at least let's say half the time. How could this be, C2D over Core i7, but there's way more to a computer than its processor. That is where people get lost. They believe Intel in the only way to improve your next computer is to upgrade the CPU... either faster clock speed or some gizmo new techability.

Apple needs to actually innovate again. It isn't the Core i7 that makes us want Macs, it's the innovation in both hardware and software integration. I want to use a "silky smooth" glass trackpad to manipulate OS X better than I could with Windows 7 PCs. I want to have something truly innovative and unique not offered on the PC side. Now, people ripped me when I said LED-backlit displays, lit keyboards, mag safe, glass trackpads with multi-touch, aluminum unibody frames, SSDs stock (in the MBA), and etc. The list truly goes on and on. While Apple didn't create every idea and technology, it was the first to adapt each of those in widespread use and availability to consumers wanting computers. Let's face it, the biggest one is OS X. Lately, there is NOTHING NEW. Nothing of an improvement... a service pack update, please that's making it run as it should have.

The point I am making is Apple is dropping the ball. I don't care if your CS5 or Maya run smoother than ever. What I want is widespread innovation that touches every user. Makes them say, but your PC cannot do this, and that's why it's worth an extra $1000 to me. The silky smooth glass trackpad sounds like a gimmick until someone uses one extensively. The SSD standard may have made the price higher, but it brought MBP speed and performance to the average user in a 3 lb. MBA that does everything the bigger brother/sister can do less play a dinosaur DVD/CD.

Until Apple innovates with its OS X, and until it bring new features to Macs that aren't currently available on PCs, it is giving in and losing ground. Maybe not over itself year over year, but over where it COULD BE had Apple not had one dipcrap micromanaging every product/project!

Apple is LOSING value right now from where it COULD be. Could if it had Macs for us to purchase that were truly innovative and could rival there iOS product counterparts.

IF NOTHING ELSE, please give me this. Apple has spent over 90% of its resources for development on its iOS products and software in the last year and less than 10% on the Macs. I believe a more appropriate number would be 60% 40% and favored to the iOS products. The problem is Apple is forever giving up potential switchers by not having a Mac available that competes in hardware to the PCs... because these iOS product buyers, that are NEW Apple devotees, will ONLY buy the Mac if it makes common sense in the component spec sheets. Since Apple doesn't compete there with ANY of its entry level 13" MB or MBP, or even Mm computers, it leaves people with a bad feeling that Macs aren't worth the extra dough. Sure, us fans might still say oh but this or that, but an adopter needs to see Core i7 on the spec sheet, and then needs to think and it won't get viruses and it will work amazing with my new iPad/iPod Touch/iPhone ......
 

ahlong

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2010
14
0
IF NOTHING ELSE, please give me this. Apple has spent over 90% of its resources for development on its iOS products and software in the last year and less than 10% on the Macs. I believe a more appropriate number would be 60% 40% and favored to the iOS products. The problem is Apple is forever giving up potential switchers by not having a Mac available that competes in hardware to the PCs... because these iOS product buyers, that are NEW Apple devotees, will ONLY buy the Mac if it makes common sense in the component spec sheets. Since Apple doesn't compete there with ANY of its entry level 13" MB or MBP, or even Mm computers, it leaves people with a bad feeling that Macs aren't worth the extra dough. Sure, us fans might still say oh but this or that, but an adopter needs to see Core i7 on the spec sheet, and then needs to think and it won't get viruses and it will work amazing with my new iPad/iPod Touch/iPhone ......

Unfortunately Apple Computers remain a relatively small market compared to PC; which is why Apple is focusing more on the lucrative iOS series of products. They are hoping to attract customer to its products and in turn spark consumers' interest to its OSX products.

While it doesn't make sense for us that Apple is providing us with outdated technology, the average joe that doesn't surf mac rumors does not care what CPU or RAM or SSD/HDD in his/her computer has.. as long as it works without getting virus and it does what he/she wants; and this is where Apple really shines. I can tell you that my MBP that runs on C2D w/ 4GB ram runs almost every Mac application flawlessly, and that is what the average consumer is looking for.

All these technical mumbo jumbo doesn't mean jack to the average consumer.. as long as their new apple computer(s) performance and ease of usage is on par with their iphone/ipad/ipod, they are happy.
 

colourfastt

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2009
1,047
964
Unfortunately Apple Computers remain a relatively small market compared to PC; which is why Apple is focusing more on the lucrative iOS series of products. They are hoping to attract customer to its products and in turn spark consumers' interest to its OSX products.

While it doesn't make sense for us that Apple is providing us with outdated technology, the average joe that doesn't surf mac rumors does not care what CPU or RAM or SSD/HDD in his/her computer has.. as long as it works without getting virus and it does what he/she wants; and this is where Apple really shines. I can tell you that my MBP that runs on C2D w/ 4GB ram runs almost every Mac application flawlessly, and that is what the average consumer is looking for.

All these technical mumbo jumbo doesn't mean jack to the average consumer.. as long as their new apple computer(s) performance and ease of usage is on par with their iphone/ipad/ipod, they are happy.


Thank you for this insightful post; wonderful job!!
 

ahlong

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2010
14
0
I'll throw something else out there as well..

Apple has great customer service (both sales and after sales) and unfortunately Sony cannot touch Apple in this regard.

I can almost guarantee you that most users of the Vaio Z either ended up diagnosing and fixing the problems themselves or simply are loaded with $$ and don't mind paying a Sony authorized tech every time the computer suffers from a hiccup after warranty.

On the other hand, even if your Apple computer is out of warranty, chances are you can still expect great service from Apple. For one, Apple doesn't charge to diagnose your computer.
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Original poster
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
Unfortunately Apple Computers remain a relatively small market compared to PC; which is why Apple is focusing more on the lucrative iOS series of products. They are hoping to attract customer to its products and in turn spark consumers' interest to its OSX products.

While it doesn't make sense for us that Apple is providing us with outdated technology, the average joe that doesn't surf mac rumors does not care what CPU or RAM or SSD/HDD in his/her computer has.. as long as it works without getting virus and it does what he/she wants; and this is where Apple really shines. I can tell you that my MBP that runs on C2D w/ 4GB ram runs almost every Mac application flawlessly, and that is what the average consumer is looking for.

All these technical mumbo jumbo doesn't mean jack to the average consumer.. as long as their new apple computer(s) performance and ease of usage is on par with their iphone/ipad/ipod, they are happy.

Actually, Apple is missing the mark on the 1 BILLION computer users... of which approximately 85% are using WINDOWS by Microsoft. Apple is missing the opportunity at that HUGE/GIGANTIC market every time it fails to make a convert/switcher that walks into the Apple store and JUST buys an iOS product.

Computers have a BIGGER value market... debatable... but Apple is dominating tablet market and doing very well in smartphone market... why not use that knowledge and those customers to expand it computing market share? That is why Apple is getting a big fat fail from me.

Sure, it's great the stock price is high and everyone loves iOS products, but Apple is missing a GIGANTIC opportunity at switchers who will, hopeful, switch for life due to love of the OS.
 

Scottsdale

Suspended
Original poster
Sep 19, 2008
4,473
283
U.S.A.
I'll throw something else out there as well..

Apple has great customer service (both sales and after sales) and unfortunately Sony cannot touch Apple in this regard.

I can almost guarantee you that most users of the Vaio Z either ended up diagnosing and fixing the problems themselves or simply are loaded with $$ and don't mind paying a Sony authorized tech every time the computer suffers from a hiccup after warranty.

On the other hand, even if your Apple computer is out of warranty, chances are you can still expect great service from Apple. For one, Apple doesn't charge to diagnose your computer.

Okay, but the MBP and MBA are a prosumer market anyways. It's not like the Mac mini, MB, or even iOS product buyers. We're much more likely to throw an upgraded SSD or more RAM in our products. In addition, it's different... Sony is providing a very different very high end product, which I respect more.

Sony provides very high-end product at very high-end pricing. Apple provides high-end cases with low-end components and "simplistic" software integration. I place more value on the high-end product. I want Apple to sell $5k MBAs. Hell, we can buy nearly $5k MBPs, why not $5k MBAs?
 

ahlong

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2010
14
0
Actually, Apple is missing the mark on the 1 BILLION computer users... of which approximately 85% are using WINDOWS by Microsoft. Apple is missing the opportunity at that HUGE/GIGANTIC market every time it fails to make a convert/switcher that walks into the Apple store and JUST buys an iOS product.

Computers have a BIGGER value market... debatable... but Apple is dominating tablet market and doing very well in smartphone market... why not use that knowledge and those customers to expand it computing market share? That is why Apple is getting a big fat fail from me.

Sure, it's great the stock price is high and everyone loves iOS products, but Apple is missing a GIGANTIC opportunity at switchers who will, hopeful, switch for life due to love of the OS.

but you see... switchers don't just wake up one day and say "I feel like switching today", iOS is a stepping stone and it's Apple's gateway to reach to those potential switchers. iOS introduces consumers to Apple's system and logic without overwhelming them with a steep learning curve (not that there's a huge one to start with), and most important of all, it brings the people into the Apple Store.

I have worked closely with Apple before and I can tell you, pretty much 90% of the switchers don't make up their mind the first time they walk into the Apple Store; it's more like teaching a baby how to walk and taking them out of their comfort zone (aka. POS Windows)..

I understand where you are coming from, but unfortunately raising specs to lure switchers is a poor strategy. Apple is successful in building premium products with high profit margins by providing top of the line specs does not go in line with their corporate strategy at the moment. While it's true that there's a niche market for $3000+ MBAs, I can assure you that those are not switchers; they are long time Mac users with $$ to spend. You might lose those people right now to products such as the Sony Vaio Z; but they will come back when there's a good MBA revision.. a majority of MBA users have a lot more disposable income than the average user/switcher as most of them are business owners/executives (at least from my experience) with only a few that are true mac fanatics (like us who are ranting on this board about the delay of the MBA)
 

CaoCao

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2010
783
2
Maybe you should get the JEST of the update to the CPUs. There is no longer a NorthBridge nor is there a GPU of 12 W TDP to take care of... the 25W handles it ALL. So, it's in fact the same class CPU.

Apple's MBA is currently at 29W TDP. Move to this and they're at 25W TDP. Don't want to use the IGP, turn it off and save 8W TDP and you're right back at 17W TDP for the CPU. Add in an ATI 5430 at 7W, and look where we're at??? Don't know about adding in 4W more for the NorthBridge as I am not completely certain of where the Intel Core i7-6x0LM ends up with IGP disabled... but ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT, WITH OR WITHOUT INTEL'S IGP, APPLE HAS A SOLUTION THAT MEETS OR EXCEEDS CURRENT ENERGY REQUIREMENTS!

So, while "technically" you're correct, in all truth you're completely off the mark. This is why the MBA should have been updated...

Now, go on to the other "ideas of innovation" that are rumored for the MBA. Use the Core i7-6x0UM series CPUs. Disable the IGP. Overclock the CPU because the power requirements for the IGP are no longer necessary, and guess what, we have an 18W CPU that runs faster than 2.13 GHz... supposedly in the 2.5 GHz range overclocked. Not requiring any more power, as the IGP doesn't get any of the power... add in 7W TDP for an ATI 5430, and look where we're at... enough said?

Seriously, I expect better arguments when people are going to act like I'm an ***** idiot with my posts. There is just a slight bit of thinking and foresight into the situation and specs when I make claims as these... are the rumors true? IDFK, but until I hear Intel say the ULV Core i7-6x0UM CPUs cannot be overclocked to run the CPU die at a higher clock speed and disable the IGP die to allow the performance gains of the CPU die, I am going to expect it's a plausible possibility... NOT necessarily what Apple WILL do but IT IS RUMORED!

Now, back to the 15" MBPs, okay. So Apple doesn't innovate one bit, but adopts the new and relevant CPU, and we all should ***** act like it's incredible? WHAT? We all expect Core i-series CPUs, I WANT INNOVATION on top of that. In addition, 50% of the time when the 15"/17" MBPs are stuck in a rut saving "precious power" they're running a worthless Intel IGP. That means the 13" MBP is actually outperforming the 15" MBP at least let's say half the time. How could this be, C2D over Core i7, but there's way more to a computer than its processor. That is where people get lost. They believe Intel in the only way to improve your next computer is to upgrade the CPU... either faster clock speed or some gizmo new techability.

Apple needs to actually innovate again. It isn't the Core i7 that makes us want Macs, it's the innovation in both hardware and software integration. I want to use a "silky smooth" glass trackpad to manipulate OS X better than I could with Windows 7 PCs. I want to have something truly innovative and unique not offered on the PC side. Now, people ripped me when I said LED-backlit displays, lit keyboards, mag safe, glass trackpads with multi-touch, aluminum unibody frames, SSDs stock (in the MBA), and etc. The list truly goes on and on. While Apple didn't create every idea and technology, it was the first to adapt each of those in widespread use and availability to consumers wanting computers. Let's face it, the biggest one is OS X. Lately, there is NOTHING NEW. Nothing of an improvement... a service pack update, please that's making it run as it should have.

The point I am making is Apple is dropping the ball. I don't care if your CS5 or Maya run smoother than ever. What I want is widespread innovation that touches every user. Makes them say, but your PC cannot do this, and that's why it's worth an extra $1000 to me. The silky smooth glass trackpad sounds like a gimmick until someone uses one extensively. The SSD standard may have made the price higher, but it brought MBP speed and performance to the average user in a 3 lb. MBA that does everything the bigger brother/sister can do less play a dinosaur DVD/CD.

Until Apple innovates with its OS X, and until it bring new features to Macs that aren't currently available on PCs, it is giving in and losing ground. Maybe not over itself year over year, but over where it COULD BE had Apple not had one dipcrap micromanaging every product/project!

Apple is LOSING value right now from where it COULD be. Could if it had Macs for us to purchase that were truly innovative and could rival there iOS product counterparts.

IF NOTHING ELSE, please give me this. Apple has spent over 90% of its resources for development on its iOS products and software in the last year and less than 10% on the Macs. I believe a more appropriate number would be 60% 40% and favored to the iOS products. The problem is Apple is forever giving up potential switchers by not having a Mac available that competes in hardware to the PCs... because these iOS product buyers, that are NEW Apple devotees, will ONLY buy the Mac if it makes common sense in the component spec sheets. Since Apple doesn't compete there with ANY of its entry level 13" MB or MBP, or even Mm computers, it leaves people with a bad feeling that Macs aren't worth the extra dough. Sure, us fans might still say oh but this or that, but an adopter needs to see Core i7 on the spec sheet, and then needs to think and it won't get viruses and it will work amazing with my new iPad/iPod Touch/iPhone ......
1) I think you mean gist
2) Thank you for correcting my ignorance on this topic
3) Do we know for a fact that the IGP can be disabled?
4) It can't be OC'ed, Apple has the time rely on the clock so time would get screwed up (they could fix it). (or was it bus?)
5) Would the Radeon 5430 use dedicated or system RAM?
6) Why should the 15"/17" use dedicated all the time? it only runs the IGP when the IGP can handle the work
7) Play optical Media? that's what external ODD are for
 

hobbes203

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2010
9
0
but you see... switchers don't just wake up one day and say "I feel like switching today", iOS is a stepping stone and it's Apple's gateway to reach to those potential switchers. iOS introduces consumers to Apple's system and logic without overwhelming them with a steep learning curve (not that there's a huge one to start with), and most important of all, it brings the people into the Apple Store.

I have worked closely with Apple before and I can tell you, pretty much 90% of the switchers don't make up their mind the first time they walk into the Apple Store; it's more like teaching a baby how to walk and taking them out of their comfort zone (aka. POS Windows)..

I understand where you are coming from, but unfortunately raising specs to lure switchers is a poor strategy. Apple is successful in building premium products with high profit margins by providing top of the line specs does not go in line with their corporate strategy at the moment. While it's true that there's a niche market for $3000+ MBAs, I can assure you that those are not switchers; they are long time Mac users with $$ to spend. You might lose those people right now to products such as the Sony Vaio Z; but they will come back when there's a good MBA revision.. a majority of MBA users have a lot more disposable income than the average user/switcher as most of them are business owners/executives (at least from my experience) with only a few that are true mac fanatics (like us who are ranting on this board about the delay of the MBA)

I am a first-year college student, with a major of computer science, and new to these forums. My father was a programmer so naturally at a young age I was exposed to computers, mainly the Windows series (starting at Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP, skipped Vista, 7) and naturally I favored Windows strongly over the Mac OSX. Why? Because I was familiar with Windows, and because of vague arguments such as Windows are better than Macs. I actually think that I favored Windows in contrast to Macs because of ignorance of what Macs are or why Windows is 'so and so' and Macs are 'so and so'.

I agree with the quote above, that just because I get a BSOD or some problem with Windows I think, "Oh, stupid Windows, time to switch to Mac." My first physical exposure to a Mac machine was in an elective for graphic art design in high school. I was surprised and mildly annoyed that I would be using a "bad" machine, but I managed to use it for the second semester. There was nothing special about it, I thought the mouse was pitiful (the little ball scroll) compared to other mouses, but nothing painful with using the iMac. Did I make a switch? No, I actually built a desktop the following summer and I love it. Did I gain some knowledge about the Mac and the OSX? Not really, just a little.

But now I'm in college. I'm typing on my HP Envy 14, a great Mac look-alike with a beautiful 1600x900 screen. Unfortunately, I was an ass, wearing a sports bag with my laptop in a thin case and running. I damaged my screen so now 1/4th of the screen cannot be seen with vertical lines running through and cracks. Even worse, HP is no longer selling Envy 14 models with the same resolution display, therefore when I called to try to get the part, they had none.

I'm planning on buying a new laptop. However, from my month in college I did play around with Macs and the OSX more often. About one out of ten students uses a Mac, and half the labs are Mac based systems. I'd say the ratio is the same for the professors (half). The trackpad is the greatest thing I can ever use in my honest opinion. Design is also elegant and phenomenal, aluminum unibody as a heatsink so I don't hear any pesky fan noises. Though it is annoying that I can't do what I want to do with Windows (program's list, explorer, alt-tab, command replacing some control functions, etc.), I am very interested in learning more about the OSX.

I was gonna pull the trigger on the Macbook Pro 13" (I don't play games anymore, so C2D would fit my needs such as programming, websurfing, etc.) but I wanted something a little more unique and I thought of the Macbook Air. Of course, 1400$ for something with less specs than the Macbook was quite a blow but I wanted something razor thin and light. But the deal breaker was that I heard a new Macbook Air is coming out. Smaller size, thinner than before, cheaper, and possibly the new Intel chips (not the Sandy Bridge ones haha). So, I'm just waiting now and seeing what happens. My birthday will be on Oct. 15 so maybe the MBA will be announced then.

But the major reason for my switch to Apple is because:

Laptop design - Everything about the Macbook - the aluminum unibody, elegance, screen, trackpad, slot-load drive - is perfect. I only hate the mouse.

OSX - It takes time to get used to it. In my opinion, familiarity is the main disadvantage although I'd love to explore a new OS.

My understanding that it's not what make the machine but what makes the outcome worth it. Whether I spend 1k on a laptop with better specs or 1k on a Mac with inferior specs doesn't make a difference to me. In my opinion, I think that we all really just are consumers who upgrade at max 2 years. Unless I'm utterly devoted into the budget route, I'd see no reason why not to consider a Mac. However, I notice that marketing really does work and now that I look back on myself and at my friends' (not computer savvies by the way) discussion of laptops for college, the words 'new', 'powerful', 'fastest', always dominate the field. My friend got an i7 processor because he thinks he's getting the best out of a laptop, at a cheap price, atleast cheaper than a Mac. All for only music playing, web surfing, essay-creating, etc.

So that's my reason for coming out of the closet. But, I'm not an all-Apple nor am I all-Microsoft. I would, 100% of the time, build a DIY brand new desktop - an elegant, unique, small form factor desktop with the best cable management I can do to try to fit good stuff into it than a Mac Pro. But the laptops are a different case. I give kudos to Apple for that. So, welcome me into your ranks. I'm waiting for the Macbook Air.
 

Abbas

macrumors regular
Jul 9, 2008
176
48
Dubai
Believe me ahlong- I did the exact same thing and bought the i5 Z in March of this year. I sold it in July- you just cant beat the user-experience of OSX

I have been waiting for MBA update for half a year..
I have given up yesterday and took advantage of a huge price drop on the Custom Configured Vaio Z12 from Sony Style Canada...

For
$1310 CAD + Tax

I got:
i7 620m
2GB Ram (planning to upgrade to 8GB myself)
1600 x 900 LED Backlit 13" LCD
Backlit KB
Aluminum + Magnesium Frame
Dual 64GB SSD @ RAID 0
Switchable Graphics w/ GT330m
DVD Writer
Extended 9 Cell Battery
~3lbs weight

Sony also threw in a free set of noise cancelling headphones..

For the same price.. this machine is running way faster than my MBP..
I, like many others on this forum are willing to pay a premium for OSX, but the wait has been too long.. and I suspect if the MBA has anything that's comparable to the Z that I just ordered, it would easily cost over $3k
 

ahlong

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2010
14
0
Believe me ahlong- I did the exact same thing and bought the i5 Z in March of this year. I sold it in July- you just cant beat the user-experience of OSX

Oh I totally agree with you... that's why once the new MBA is out and if it's not too expensive.. I'll probably sell my Z and jump back...

now if I could put OSX on the Z would be another story
 

CaoCao

macrumors 6502a
Jul 27, 2010
783
2
I am a first-year college student, with a major of computer science, and new to these forums. My father was a programmer so naturally at a young age I was exposed to computers, mainly the Windows series (starting at Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP, skipped Vista, 7) and naturally I favored Windows strongly over the Mac OSX. Why? Because I was familiar with Windows, and because of vague arguments such as Windows are better than Macs. I actually think that I favored Windows in contrast to Macs because of ignorance of what Macs are or why Windows is 'so and so' and Macs are 'so and so'.

I agree with the quote above, that just because I get a BSOD or some problem with Windows I think, "Oh, stupid Windows, time to switch to Mac." My first physical exposure to a Mac machine was in an elective for graphic art design in high school. I was surprised and mildly annoyed that I would be using a "bad" machine, but I managed to use it for the second semester. There was nothing special about it, I thought the mouse was pitiful (the little ball scroll) compared to other mouses, but nothing painful with using the iMac. Did I make a switch? No, I actually built a desktop the following summer and I love it. Did I gain some knowledge about the Mac and the OSX? Not really, just a little.

But now I'm in college. I'm typing on my HP Envy 14, a great Mac look-alike with a beautiful 1600x900 screen. Unfortunately, I was an ass, wearing a sports bag with my laptop in a thin case and running. I damaged my screen so now 1/4th of the screen cannot be seen with vertical lines running through and cracks. Even worse, HP is no longer selling Envy 14 models with the same resolution display, therefore when I called to try to get the part, they had none.

I'm planning on buying a new laptop. However, from my month in college I did play around with Macs and the OSX more often. About one out of ten students uses a Mac, and half the labs are Mac based systems. I'd say the ratio is the same for the professors (half). The trackpad is the greatest thing I can ever use in my honest opinion. Design is also elegant and phenomenal, aluminum unibody as a heatsink so I don't hear any pesky fan noises. Though it is annoying that I can't do what I want to do with Windows (program's list, explorer, alt-tab, command replacing some control functions, etc.), I am very interested in learning more about the OSX.

I was gonna pull the trigger on the Macbook Pro 13" (I don't play games anymore, so C2D would fit my needs such as programming, websurfing, etc.) but I wanted something a little more unique and I thought of the Macbook Air. Of course, 1400$ for something with less specs than the Macbook was quite a blow but I wanted something razor thin and light. But the deal breaker was that I heard a new Macbook Air is coming out. Smaller size, thinner than before, cheaper, and possibly the new Intel chips (not the Sandy Bridge ones haha). So, I'm just waiting now and seeing what happens. My birthday will be on Oct. 15 so maybe the MBA will be announced then.

But the major reason for my switch to Apple is because:

Laptop design - Everything about the Macbook - the aluminum unibody, elegance, screen, trackpad, slot-load drive - is perfect. I only hate the mouse.

OSX - It takes time to get used to it. In my opinion, familiarity is the main disadvantage although I'd love to explore a new OS.

My understanding that it's not what make the machine but what makes the outcome worth it. Whether I spend 1k on a laptop with better specs or 1k on a Mac with inferior specs doesn't make a difference to me. In my opinion, I think that we all really just are consumers who upgrade at max 2 years. Unless I'm utterly devoted into the budget route, I'd see no reason why not to consider a Mac. However, I notice that marketing really does work and now that I look back on myself and at my friends' (not computer savvies by the way) discussion of laptops for college, the words 'new', 'powerful', 'fastest', always dominate the field. My friend got an i7 processor because he thinks he's getting the best out of a laptop, at a cheap price, atleast cheaper than a Mac. All for only music playing, web surfing, essay-creating, etc.

So that's my reason for coming out of the closet. But, I'm not an all-Apple nor am I all-Microsoft. I would, 100% of the time, build a DIY brand new desktop - an elegant, unique, small form factor desktop with the best cable management I can do to try to fit good stuff into it than a Mac Pro. But the laptops are a different case. I give kudos to Apple for that. So, welcome me into your ranks. I'm waiting for the Macbook Air.
If they are coming expect MBP in February-March and MBA April-June
Believe me ahlong- I did the exact same thing and bought the i5 Z in March of this year. I sold it in July- you just cant beat the user-experience of OSX

Once you try Mac you aren't ever really going back
 

Spacekatgal

macrumors regular
Jun 9, 2009
203
0
It isn't the Core i7 that makes us want Macs, it's the innovation in both hardware and software integration.

Well, let's back up. You made a blanket statement about there being no innovation whatsoever the year in the Macintosh, except for the Mac Mini. I still think that's a boisterous claim that you haven't proven.

Secondly, a lot of us were DESPERATELY waiting for an i7 Mac - so I disagree with this statement. A lot of us are of a generation that plays games - so I think you're making a mistake of believing that what is innovative for you is innovative for everyone.

And besides, the i7 Mac this year had some changes that were very innovative. Momentum scrolling, a high-def screen on the 15 inch, switchable GPUs without rebooting, sound output through the Mini Displayport. They are subtle changes - but the Macbook is already the best laptop ever made, so there's no need to throw it out and start over every year.
 

L0s7man

macrumors 6502
Feb 26, 2009
276
0
Well, let's back up. You made a blanket statement about there being no innovation whatsoever the year in the Macintosh, except for the Mac Mini. I still think that's a boisterous claim that you haven't proven.

Secondly, a lot of us were DESPERATELY waiting for an i7 Mac - so I disagree with this statement. A lot of us are of a generation that plays games - so I think you're making a mistake of believing that what is innovative for you is innovative for everyone.

And besides, the i7 Mac this year had some changes that were very innovative. Momentum scrolling, a high-def screen on the 15 inch, switchable GPUs without rebooting, sound output through the Mini Displayport. They are subtle changes - but the Macbook is already the best laptop ever made, so there's no need to throw it out and start over every year.

Hmm... I had momentum scrolling implemented in HARDWARE years ago on my Logitech mouse ;-) Trust me, actual physics at work is way better than a simple software gimmick ;-)

(the way it worked was as follows: you could switch between "continuous" scrolling or "discrete scrolling" modes for the mouse wheel; then I would spin the wheel and it would keep on turning because it has mass; this is way more satisfactory to use than software-based gimmick; oh and the "discrete" mode was good for games, as you don't want the wheel to spin too much switching your weapons or changing zoom)
 
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