Sooooo iOS 8 anyone?

[tbayrgs]

I see an awful lot of Apple gear in the signatures of of posters criticizing Apple's practice of defending its patents or claiming they do nothing but copy features/functionality, and know that those without signatures have admitted they use Apple products. If their business practices are so troubling to you, why continue to buy their gear? Awful lot of hypocrisy flying around the forum lately. And if you you claim you refuse to own Apple products because of their business practices, your presence in these threads is simply to troll.

Regardless, the mods need to either clean up this thread or just shut it down as there is little to no discussion pertaining to the original post.

 

[jrswizzle]

I see an awful lot of Apple gear in the signatures of of posters criticizing Apple's practice of defending its patents or claiming they do nothing but copy features/functionality, and know that those without signatures have admitted they use Apple products. If their business practices are so troubling to you, why continue to buy their gear? Awful lot of hypocrisy flying around the forum lately. And if you you claim you refuse to own Apple products because of their business practices, you're presence in these threads is simply to troll.

Regardless, the mods need to either clean up this thread or just shut it down as there is little to no discussion pertaining to the original post.

Agreed - kinda surprised it hasn't happened yet. Should I keep going to get it shut down quicker

 

[gotluck]

just because we own the products doesn't mean we have to like apple's holier than thou attitude

as a user i couldnt care less who copies who, or how much money who makes per quarter, or who sues who

but it is a little funny that Apple is the only one suing.. considering the obvious 'copying' between all platforms

 

[ritholtz]

More likely, that company hasn't trademarked "HealthKit"......

Or, Apple has trademarked the name in various countries but not Australia and intends to pay off the startup for the name.

But no, you're probably right. A multi-nation billion dollar company likely doesn't research at all

----------



Its about patents. If Apple is infringing on someone's patent, sue them. The system has shown it will work for them.

Plenty of NPE's (patent trolls) sue Apple constantly. In fact they get sued more than any other company by non-practicing entities. Truth is, if the patent doesn't exist by the laws of trademark/IP the entity being "copied" doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Really, its the system thats broken. Apple is vocal about protecting their IP - they patent something and litigate when its infringed upon. The real issue is how patents are awarded.....some of these things shouldn't be patented to one company.....

Basically as long as patents system is not catching, apple is free to use it. Legally It is not considered as stealing.

 

[Fanaticalism]

NY times just posted an article from two members who were present at wwdc that I feel gave a good unbiased perspective of the presentation. I think anyone who reads it can walk away with an appreciation for what Apple has done.

The New York Times: A New Era for Apple, but an End for Some Apps. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwv42DtRo

 

[jrswizzle]

just because we own the products doesn't mean we have to like apple's holier than thou attitude

as a user i couldnt care less who copies who, or how much money who makes per quarter, or who sues who

but it is a little funny that Apple is the only one suing.. considering the obvious 'copying' between all platforms

But who gives a rats behind about the company's "attitude".

And Apple ISN'T the only one suing....gosh you guys wonder why I get hot under the collar....its because you post factually inaccurate stuff trying to paint Apple in a wrong light....

I mean good lord - can't we simply discuss facts and what the features are/mean for iOS and if Android users might switch? Why make stuff up?

 

[gotluck]

But who gives a rats behind about the company's "attitude".

And Apple ISN'T the only one suing....gosh you guys wonder why I get hot under the collar....its because you post factually inaccurate stuff trying to paint Apple in a wrong light....

I mean good lord - can't we simply discuss facts and what the features are/mean for iOS and if Android users might switch? Why make stuff up?

I guess I do. The elitism among apple and its biggest fans makes me want to speak out

well I meant of the major companies. I dont see google, samsung, microsoft suing Apple. Yes Apple gets patent trolled by insignificant companies.

 

[jrswizzle]

Basically as long as patents system is not catching, apple is free to use it. Legally It is not considered as stealing.

Basically, along as the patent system awards silly patents, companies like Apple will continue to protect said patents.

But the whole basis of this discussion is that somehow Google is credited with inventing quick reply, an environment for 3rd party keyboards, continuity, widgets, predictive text, developer APIs, "Hey Siri", etc and would sue Apple if they weren't such nice people.



----------

well I meant of the major companies. I dont see google, samsung, microsoft suing Apple. Yes Apple gets patent trolled by insignificant companies.

Oh but they do....Samsung has sued and counter-sued Apple on many occasions.

Also, Google sued the Rockstar Consortium (which includes Microsoft and Apple) in December of 2013. They also sued Apple in 2012 over patents acquired in the Moto acquisition.

They just don't get the pub - its far more interesting to be sued by Apple than sue Apple.

Here's a good list if you want to check out the suits. Kinda interesting - lots of suits and counter-suits
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars.

 

[gotluck]

Oh but they do....Samsung has sued and counter-sued Apple on many occasions.

Also, Google sued the Rockstar Consortium (which includes Microsoft and Apple) in December of 2013. They also sued Apple in 2012 over patents acquired in the Moto acquisition.

They just don't get the pub - its far more interesting to be sued by Apple than sue Apple.

Here's a good list if you want to check out the suits. Kinda interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone_patent_wars.

if I'm not mistaken the rockstar case was more of a defense suit, to protect from Apple's impending lawsuit.

counter-suit is just not the same... I'd love to hear of a case where Apple is getting sued for copying, rather than some form of self defense.

 

[jamezr]

just because we own the products doesn't mean we have to like apple's holier than thou attitude

as a user i couldnt care less who copies who, or how much money who makes per quarter, or who sues who

but it is a little funny that Apple is the only one suing.. considering the obvious 'copying' between all platforms

Exactly....I own and use Apple products........that doesn't mean I can't point out things they do wrong......

 

[jrswizzle]

I guess I do. The elitism among apple and its biggest fans makes me want to speak out.

I think much of it is stereotyped elitism. I'm not trying to be elitist. If you notice, I've never once claimed Apple invented any of this stuff. Hell, I don't even claim they invented the smartphone or touchscreen smartphone.

But I do recognize their impact on the industry. And I try to keep an even head when it comes to this "who copies who" stuff by shifting focus to implementation of features (which is where interesting discussion can be had).

Ignoring it doesn't do anything. If we could simply say - "Ok, Apple is adding widgets to iOS. What does that look like? How does it differ from Android's implementation? Is this good or bad?"

That's a great discussion to have. Invariably, someone will say "RAHH Apple copied Google, they suck they should be sued and get whats coming!>11!1!!1"

And then all hell breaks loose because I'm not going to stand by let that crap like that go. There's too much of that around here and in other forums.

 

[ritholtz]

Basically, along as the patent system awards silly patents, companies like Apple will continue to protect said patents.

But the whole basis of this discussion is that somehow Google is credited with inventing quick reply, an environment for 3rd party keyboards, continuity, widgets, predictive text, developer APIs, "Hey Siri", etc and would sue Apple if they weren't such nice people.

I am not sure man. I don't know why google not applied for patents for these ideas. I think, they should have got a patents for these ideas and try taking advantage of lousy patent system. May be these are the ideas from others which they are copied. Google copies lot of stuff. They just implements it better. They copied whole yahoo finance into google finance. I am pretty sure they copied lot of iphone/ios into their android/phones. Surprised Apple is yet to go after google.

 

[jrswizzle]

if I'm not mistaken the rockstar case was more of a defense suit, to protect from Apple's impending lawsuit.

counter-suit is just not the same... I'd love to hear of a case where Apple is getting sued for copying, rather than some form of self defense.

First one on the list I gave you was Nokia suing Apple.

It still cracks me up that the seeming lack of suits against Apple for copying must be because all these other billion dollar companies are simply "too nice". That Apple is the ONLY one....

It couldn't possibly be that Apple knows which features it can "imitate" without infringing on patents. Or perhaps that they pay licensing fees? Which isn't sexy or newsworthy.

----------

I am not sure man. I don't know why google not applied for patents for these ideas. I think, they should have got a patents for these ideas and try taking advantage of lousy patent system. May be these are the ideas from others which they are copied. Google copies lot of stuff. They copied whole yahoo finance into google finance.

Google didn't patent these ideas because they aren't Google's ideas....

It's pretty simple. Maybe these third party developers are too small to try and file patents for all their stuff. Perhaps they don't know any better. Companies like Apple and Google have massive legal teams for crap like this - they know every loophole, every way to take advantage. Smaller companies simply can't.

Would we like for companies like Apple to stop "taking advantage" of the system? Sure - some of their patents and suits are legit though. Really, if the patent office would simply be more selective in their patent awards, it would go a long way to mitigating the frivolous suits guys like us argue over.

 

[tbayrgs]

just because we own the products doesn't mean we have to like apple's holier than thou attitude

as a user i couldnt care less who copies who, or how much money who makes per quarter, or who sues who

but it is a little funny that Apple is the only one suing.. considering the obvious 'copying' between all platforms

Exactly....I own and use Apple products........that doesn't mean I can't point out things they do wrong......

But I guess not wrong enough to convince you to stop supporting these business practices by refusing to buy their products. Sorry guys but that's simply hypocritical, no matter what way you slice it.

Hypocrisy: the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel.

 

[sumsingwong]

Keyboard? Exactly the same as Android.



iCloud Drive? Android and Windows Phone both had this years ago.



Interactive notifications? Android.



Talking to the phone to activate the voice assistant? Android.



Widgets? Android. Except iOS made them less useful by only putting them on the dropdown menu.



The only original feature is talking to Yosemite, which admittedly is pretty cool, but that rest is just keeping up with Android.

Flip phones have had predictive typing way before Android. Do you recall T9 predictive text input?

Apple did have iDisk years ago

The JB community has BiteSMS years ago probably before Android

How are widgets in the Today screen be less useful. Android can't access widgets within any app. Widgets can be accessed from within any app in iOS 8. You have to exit an app with Android and go back to the home screens to see widgets.

 

[jrswizzle]

Flip phones have had predictive typing way before Android. Do you recall T9 predictive text input?

Apple did have iDisk years ago

The JB community has BiteSMS years ago probably before Android

How are widgets in the Today screen be less useful. Android can't access widgets within any app. Widgets can be accessed from within any app in iOS 8. You have to exit an app with Android and go back to the home screens to see widgets.

Interesting, good point. I hadn't thought of that. I like Apple's implementation because it simply allows me to leave all my widgets in one place as opposed to having them scattered through various home screens.

(note - I would've been fine had they allowed widgets to be added to the home screen too so long as they let me access the screen to the left of the main home screen so I could store my widgets on one page that was out of the way, but still a swipe away.)

But the ability to access them from within ANY app is pretty awesome.

 

[SpoonCody]

Interesting, good point. I hadn't thought of that. I like Apple's implementation because it simply allows me to leave all my widgets in one place as opposed to having them scattered through various home screens.

I don't think you know how to use Android.

That, or you're being disingenuous.

 

[ritholtz]

Interesting, good point. I hadn't thought of that. I like Apple's implementation because it simply allows me to leave all my widgets in one place as opposed to having them scattered through various home screens.

(note - I would've been fine had they allowed widgets to be added to the home screen too so long as they let me access the screen to the left of the main home screen so I could store my widgets on one page that was out of the way, but still a swipe away.)

But the ability to access them from within ANY app is pretty awesome.

Hi jrs,
I edited my previous post about google copying and not applying for patents.

 

[jrswizzle]

I don't think you know how to use Android.

That, or you're being disingenuous.

I know exactly how to use Android.....I'd put my widgets on a screen to the left of the main home screen. But iOS doesn't currently provide access to that screen - so I would want the ability to do the same if widgets were to come to iOS in a similar implementation to Android.

They did not however, and sumsingwong makes a good point about having widget access even in app.

 

[gotluck]

But I guess not wrong enough to convince you to stop supporting these business practices by refusing to buy their products. Sorry guys but that's simply hypocritical, no matter what way you slice it.

People are often most critical of their loved ones. I dont understand why I cant like the product but not always like the company. **** I like and need gas for my car but I have no love for exxon or their practices.

I like cable services but hate cable companies and their lockdown policies.. I could go on.

 

[jrswizzle]

Hi jrs,
I edited my previous post about google copying and not applying for patents.

Lol - no worries. You've been extremely level headed about the whole thing. I think the fiery guys have me on ignore so....lol

 

[jamezr]

People are often most critical of their loved ones. I dont understand why I cant like the product but not always like the company. **** I like and need gas for my car but I have no love for exxon or their practices.

I like cable services but hate cable companies and their lockdown policies.. I could go on.

That is spot on.... I really don't understand the emotional attachment that some have for Apple. It is almost like a cult following......say something critical and people want to burn you at the stake.....it is like you insulted a loved one.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

that is spot on.... I really don't understand the emotional attachment that some have for apple. It is almost like a cult following......say something critical and people want to burn you at the stake.....it is like you insulted a loved one.

ftfy

 

[jrswizzle]

That is spot on.... I really don't understand the emotional attachment that some have for Apple. It is almost like a cult following......say something critical and people want to burn you at the stake.....it is like you insulted a loved one.

Still don't get it....

It has NOTHING to do with criticizing Apple or any company. For me, its about making patently untrue comments. I take issue with that....

Of course you can't see this - but others can. There are those out there on either side who are the true "fanboy" contingent. Those people should be ignored at all costs because they offer nothing.

But when you come in spouting completely untrue things about either company or an OS or features or whatever - I'm going to call you on it. Don't like it? Too bad...

If you think I'm wrong, post a source. Rebut the point individually. Don't be like the true fanboy groups.....those people are the worst.

Also - don't automatically assume anyone who likes iOS or "defends" iOS is in that group. It gives you zero credibility and derails any hope at a good discussion.

 

[spinedoc77]

I wonder what Google is thinking right about now.