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The Sorbet “App Store” still functions for me as do the respective app dl links. Just tried it on my pmG5.
Finder>Applications>Sorbet App Store.
Good luck 🙂
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Sorbet Leopard - Your Power Mac Unleashed
- Thread starter z970
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Finder>Applications>Sorbet App Store.
Good luck 🙂
Merci pourThank you for your help in any case. The PMG5 will come back to life, I will be able to push it to the maximum of its possibilities (now it has 3GB. So at 8GB found a wifi and Bluetooth card)
Certificate of Excellence
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Your welcome & welcome to MR 🙂 Sorbet and the modern web really like max ram and an SSD
Your Powermac will thank you with snappier response/function. Have fun on your Powermac G5 rebuild journey!Let us know how it goes 😎
If you consider open-source, then https://macos-powerpc.org (it’s like MacPorts, but better for PowerPC).
P. S. For proprietary software, besides obvious, you may check KDX/Hotline servers, some are still alive.
So, good news and bad news.
I managed to install from version 10.3.9 to 10.5.8.
The bad news is that 10.5.9 bugs during installation
I have:
1 Mac OS X video (OK)
2 page of the choice of language (OK)
3 keyboard selection page (OK)
4 User Information Transfer Page (Bug)
Because, as soon as I'm on page 4 automatic after a few seconds it goes back to 1 and it loops
I managed to install from version 10.3.9 to 10.5.8.
The bad news is that 10.5.9 bugs during installation
I have:
1 Mac OS X video (OK)
2 page of the choice of language (OK)
3 keyboard selection page (OK)
4 User Information Transfer Page (Bug)
Because, as soon as I'm on page 4 automatic after a few seconds it goes back to 1 and it loops
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I found my mistake for the installation of sobert. You have to create an account not retrieve the information from an existing one.
So I'm in the process of installing some good programs.
This is one more operasionel.
So I'm in the process of installing some good programs.
This is one more operasionel.
Can you tell me the name and where you found this application? And the 2 surrounded, what is it?
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The Amazon and Ebay apps I have on this mac are separate instances of INTHEBOX (@wicknix) which utilizes a mobile UA to open a lighter separate instance of a website. Prior to Aquafox browser, I was using InterwebPPC browser (wicknix) which was a continuation of TenFourFox browser (Cameron Kaiser). InTheBox is a continuation of TFF's companion app TFF Foxboxes ( also by Cameron Kaiser). They're reasonably snappy on this dual core a1117 and not bad on my slower a1047 dual cpu G5s but you do see performance slow down especially on sub 1ghz G4s. Still, very useful and fun to have.
In regards to these apps: (from left to right)
The red icon is TenFiveTube (wicknix) which is a stand alone player for Youtube which uses a mobile user agent to open a mobile instance of the YT website. Its pretty great and is a staple in my PowerPC mac setup - all my ppc machines I have utilize this fantastic app from singlecore g4 cpus up through this dualcore G5. IIRC there is a Snow Leopard Early Intel version of this too called TenSixTube also available/searchable through the above link/site. I havent used it though but Im sure it works great.
The circle with cool siri-esque waves in it was an app I put together called Invidtube that streamed invidious video instances from the site. Since 2023, it's sadly been shut down (by YT). As it doesnt work anymore and with three kids (young boys into sports and BMX no less - oldest is noticing girls now lol) I haven't had time to work/evolve it into anything else unfortunately 🙂
The blue flower is the icon that is generated for Legacy AI (Manticore, @greystash ). I love this app for standing up AI chat function on my Early Intel, PowerPC and 68k macs. I bought this one - absolutely worth the modest $15 bucks IIRC? to support the developer. They did an awesome job - still works and the dev offers it as a free download too which is such a cool nod to the small retro Apple community. Anyways, I use it often. Its like my own little personal protocol droid haha.
Lastly, the big M is a separate instance of gmail using wicknix's InTheBox. It used to be AWESOME with gmails html web mail but now its a fat and bloated mess and is slow as it connects into google webtool/spaces or whatever it calls itself now (gmail killed off its html webmail last year sadly - still salty about that haha). Current gmail webmail is usable but not nearly as cool, nostalgic & snappy as it used to be as html webmail.
Anyways I hope this helps to understand what is going on there 🙂
Good luck!
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Hi, I'm in the process of creating a complete icon pack for Leopard Sorbet. I think it might interest you @z970
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here are the icons i created for Sorbet Leopard, there are since the announcement of this creation the folders for all versions of mac systems since Mac OS X, and also CDs, DVDs, Blu-rays
Edit : 🤔 I'm going to try to create an installation pack like the bonus pack that modifies the interface of Leopard in high sierra 😂 But better
Edit : 🤔 I'm going to try to create an installation pack like the bonus pack that modifies the interface of Leopard in high sierra 😂 But better
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Working in modern Linux every day and steadily growing tired of attempting to finagle GIMP into compliance each time I need to do graphics tasks, I've been missing my good old G5 which has now been collecting dust for years. So I recently dug it out, upgraded its RAM, and reinstalled the two best operating systems ever onto a fresh disk (alongside Creative Suite and Pixelmator).
Man, if OSes could be compared to houses, there's just no place like Tiger and Leopard. Particularly on Sorbet, I am amazed that almost everything in YouTube still works in the upgraded Safari, now nearly 4 years since R15 was released. It even does the animation for entering and leaving full screen usually only seen on much newer systems, complete with the modern video player controls. Most other websites still continue to work as well, with Aquafox making short work of the few that require TLS 1.3.
Simply unreal. Everything to this day holds up far better than expected, in my opinion. I really need to figure out how to run a VNC session to another system from one of the older clients available so I can just daily this beast again like the good old days.
That's definitely not supposed to happen. Now that you mention it though, I vaguely recall that there might have been a known issue with the user transfer mode in Setup Assistant around when the first public build was released (which later this year will be half a decade ago), perhaps caused by a missing framework of some sort.
In any case, the whole thing is due for an update--for instance, there's no practical reason it's incompatible with Intel, and the fact that the base system cannot be reinstalled from the disc is a longstanding problem. But unfortunately with remote work and other commitments, I don't get an off button and spare time comes at a premium.
If I can ever get around to it though, I'll showcase your icon theme for everyone to see. Looks cool, great work! 🙂
Man, if OSes could be compared to houses, there's just no place like Tiger and Leopard. Particularly on Sorbet, I am amazed that almost everything in YouTube still works in the upgraded Safari, now nearly 4 years since R15 was released. It even does the animation for entering and leaving full screen usually only seen on much newer systems, complete with the modern video player controls. Most other websites still continue to work as well, with Aquafox making short work of the few that require TLS 1.3.
Simply unreal. Everything to this day holds up far better than expected, in my opinion. I really need to figure out how to run a VNC session to another system from one of the older clients available so I can just daily this beast again like the good old days.
That's definitely not supposed to happen. Now that you mention it though, I vaguely recall that there might have been a known issue with the user transfer mode in Setup Assistant around when the first public build was released (which later this year will be half a decade ago), perhaps caused by a missing framework of some sort.
In any case, the whole thing is due for an update--for instance, there's no practical reason it's incompatible with Intel, and the fact that the base system cannot be reinstalled from the disc is a longstanding problem. But unfortunately with remote work and other commitments, I don't get an off button and spare time comes at a premium.
If I can ever get around to it though, I'll showcase your icon theme for everyone to see. Looks cool, great work! 🙂
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mac57mac57
macrumors 6502a
I couldn't agree more @z970, I've been saying something like this for a very long time. A Power Mac G5, updated with Suriken or Sorbet, plus the Aquafox browser, is quite simply amazing after all this time. My G5 Quad is not quite my full time "daily driver", but it is close. I use it almost daily, and for pretty much everything except web browsing to "heavy" sites. The user experience runs rings around today's macOS.
Now I know that there are folks out here on these forums who disagree with this point of view, but that is fine. It doesn't have to be either/or. There is room for both. For me however, the G5/Sorbet experience is so compelling that I work in it whenever I can, and that is for most things. The G5 has held up extremely well 20 years later, demonstrating yet again just how far ahead of the curve Steve Job's Apple was.
Sure I added some additional performance improvements in the config files and a collection of usability enhancements, but in retrospect I don't think Tobias Netzel gets nearly enough credit for what he did. Leopard WebKit was easily at least the second most important project after TenFourFox for the PPC platform in the last decade, and it shows just how well his port of WebKit 604 has held up, notwithstanding its restriction to TLS 1.2.
If we could just get a TLS proxy service added by default as well, it would be unstoppable...
I think I'm going to take your lead where applicable. Life's too short, there's no reason not to have more fun computing.
Though to be fair the AIM alliance was for the most part something Jobs inherited. Macs from 2006 to 2012 are probably a better representation of his influence, as well as OS X itself.
It's a pleasure to be able to participate at my level, I also have to take some time to learn how to create an installation pack (like the pack that installs the High Sierra style which has a small correction to do) so that the integration of the icons will be more automatic and I could therefore offer 2 versions of icons (sorbet color or gray color of the G5)
mac57mac57
macrumors 6502a
I have to weigh in with another comment on this thread.
I have been pretty quiet of late, "head down" working on v5.0a of my multi-platform VE text editor. I am doing the development of the primary fork of VE 5.0a on my Mac Studio, running macOS Monterey.
The stark difference between the macOS user experience and the Mac OS X (Sorbet/Leopard) user experience stands out in spades as I do this work, and in simple little things usually. For example, under stock macOS Monterey, the difference between a window that has focus and windows that do not is only a subtle difference in the shade of white used for the windows menu bar and frame. Both are white... just a subtle difference in shade. This is *terrible* UI design! I am *constantly* having to examine window frames carefully to determine which window has focus and thus is absorbing the characters I am typing.
By contrast, on Mac OS X Sorbet/Leopard, the frame of unfocused windows darkens to a really obvious dark grey, while the currently focused window has a very light grey frame. It stands out from the rest, easily found and understood.
... and then there is the title bar of the window, a thing of the past in macOS. It is SO easy to grab that title bar and move a window in Sorbet/Leopard. In maOS Monterey, without a dedicated title bar, if the menu bar of a window is even moderately "busy", finding a free spot to grab so as to move the window is an tough exercise... SO needlessly frustrating, such a needless waste of time and productivity.
Such a bad UI design; so much wasted time. Thin, disappearing scroll bars that you have to fiddle with to get them to reappear, window top lines that obstruct, not assist, moving windows around and of course the lack of any obvious visual cue to identify the window with focus.... WHO thought ANY of this was a good idea? They need to be "invited" to find new jobs!
Yes, I could probably overcome all of this with enough add ons and modification packages, but I shouldn't have to. Macs used to be visibly better than PCs, and used to "just work". No more! Hence my repeated assertion: stick with Mac OS X when/while you can; the user experience is far superior to anything macOS offers these days.
OK, enough ranting. I am just constantly frustrated with the user experience in Monterey (and Sonoma is even worse IMHO). I can't WAIT to get to work on the first port of VE 5.0a, which is from Apple Silicon Monterey to Power Mac G5 Mac OS X Sorbet, and the next port after that, again G5-based, to Mint Linux PPC64. Both of these feature a dramatically superior UI experience vs. macOS.
I have been pretty quiet of late, "head down" working on v5.0a of my multi-platform VE text editor. I am doing the development of the primary fork of VE 5.0a on my Mac Studio, running macOS Monterey.
The stark difference between the macOS user experience and the Mac OS X (Sorbet/Leopard) user experience stands out in spades as I do this work, and in simple little things usually. For example, under stock macOS Monterey, the difference between a window that has focus and windows that do not is only a subtle difference in the shade of white used for the windows menu bar and frame. Both are white... just a subtle difference in shade. This is *terrible* UI design! I am *constantly* having to examine window frames carefully to determine which window has focus and thus is absorbing the characters I am typing.
By contrast, on Mac OS X Sorbet/Leopard, the frame of unfocused windows darkens to a really obvious dark grey, while the currently focused window has a very light grey frame. It stands out from the rest, easily found and understood.
... and then there is the title bar of the window, a thing of the past in macOS. It is SO easy to grab that title bar and move a window in Sorbet/Leopard. In maOS Monterey, without a dedicated title bar, if the menu bar of a window is even moderately "busy", finding a free spot to grab so as to move the window is an tough exercise... SO needlessly frustrating, such a needless waste of time and productivity.
Such a bad UI design; so much wasted time. Thin, disappearing scroll bars that you have to fiddle with to get them to reappear, window top lines that obstruct, not assist, moving windows around and of course the lack of any obvious visual cue to identify the window with focus.... WHO thought ANY of this was a good idea? They need to be "invited" to find new jobs!
Yes, I could probably overcome all of this with enough add ons and modification packages, but I shouldn't have to. Macs used to be visibly better than PCs, and used to "just work". No more! Hence my repeated assertion: stick with Mac OS X when/while you can; the user experience is far superior to anything macOS offers these days.
OK, enough ranting. I am just constantly frustrated with the user experience in Monterey (and Sonoma is even worse IMHO). I can't WAIT to get to work on the first port of VE 5.0a, which is from Apple Silicon Monterey to Power Mac G5 Mac OS X Sorbet, and the next port after that, again G5-based, to Mint Linux PPC64. Both of these feature a dramatically superior UI experience vs. macOS.
Actually now that you mention it, I did begin work on a refresh earlier this year.
In order to reduce development time, the new version will have the following attributes:
- It will be a self-contained application, not a pre-assembled disk image
- It will primarily be an adaptation of R15 with several new features, like a built-in TLS proxy
- It will focus on performance and usability improvements only, and for the most part jettison cosmetics like themes, demos, fonts, etc
- The app store will be updated to advertise new and current projects, and may or may not be redesigned
- There will be no fancy graphics or memorable promos to emulate the marketing of a brand new release
- Besides minor updates to the app store in the future, it will absolutely be the final version conceived (unless someone else adopts it)
The idea was to meet the project's 5th anniversary, so ideally I'd like it to be out by the end of the year. But as previously mentioned, time is a valuable resource and this is relatively low in my current priorities so there are no promises.
We'll see what happens... 😉
Smithwick’s
macrumors regular
Glad to hear! Sorbet is a phenomenal project that has brought a spark of additional modern life to a few of my machines too bogged down by stock Leopard to run it as well (including the 1.5GHz 12" PBG4 I'm posting this from).
Any chance a future release might restore the 64-bit elements, though? That's the only thing keeping me from running Sorbet over stock Leopard on my PM G5. Even though it can certainly handle stock with no problem every little optimization helps, as we all know. And I feel like Sorbet being able to run the PPC64 PPCPorts would be a killer combo.
If I recall correctly, when Monolingual was run on the base image before shipping, only Intel and ARM code (if any) was stripped from the system binaries; PPC32 and PPC64 code were completely untouched. Therefore the system itself is equally as 64-bit capable as 10.5.8 and conclusions otherwise are one of the several myths that have curiously grown to surround the project (another longstanding one being that it recycled assets from the Snow Leopard beta).
What I can speak to is that from everything I have seen thus far, any failures in building MacPorts or PPC64 PPCPorts have consistently pointed to one incompatible file in the system, being the libsqlite dynamic link library. This file was first installed in R15 / Revision 1.5 in order to integrate the newer security patches into the relinked Safari / Leopard WebKit version that came preinstalled because they wouldn't work otherwise using the stock file from the 10.5.8 base system.
However, it was only later discovered that the imported libsqlite file that Safari now depended on to run in fact lacked PPC64 code (probably just because it wasn't originally built with it included), which ordinarily isn't a problem for the end user on a G5, but some development environments such as MacPorts evidently depended on that library to compile new PPC64-specific binaries and of course fail when it lacks the necessary instructions to do so.
Because this file is still necessary to run the 10/18 patches for Leopard WebKit that Sorbet was the first to feature, the working solution will probably be the ability to just swap the files around at will; the 10.5.8 file gets reinstalled if the user is either building PPC64 software or using an Intel system, and for all other users on G4 and G5 systems the newer file replaces it with no consequence.
I hope that cleared things up, and I'm glad the project offered some utility to you. 🙂
I think that whatever was modified to report system version as 10.5.9 should be changed back to what it is in 10.5.8 release. It is a pain to have some non-standard or inconsistent system versioning: in most cases it is irrelevant, but every once in a while it breaks something (this also applies to SL 10a190, but there is was unavoidable inconvenience, not a deliberate messing up).
What’s preventing from rebuilding it though? sqlite should build fine with gcc-4.2 (even the latest release of it does), which means that building it as universal library is trivial. I has minimal dependencies and does not need CMake or something similar. It should be easy to build any version of it correctly, with all relevant arch slices.
Two questions for yall.
Does Sorbet update the weather widget to one that works?
How is Sorbet’s performance compared to regular Tiger and Shuriken Tiger?
Does Sorbet update the weather widget to one that works?
How is Sorbet’s performance compared to regular Tiger and Shuriken Tiger?
I agree, that was something else that has occasionally caused issues depending on the use case. The version number will be optional in the next release.
If you would like to provide a modern version of sqlite and any other low-dependency libraries / binaries for non-MacPorts installs, that would be extremely welcome. Bundling updated versions of the UNIX coreutils was actually one of the original goals for the project that never made it in because builds / compilations have never been my forte and I couldn't find anyone to supply them in time.
This will also help to reduce some of the potential attack surfaces in the system, improving security for modern use--which would be particularly useful with projects like PowerFox around today. Now would also be the time since I'm definitely not going to work on Sorbet again following the next release.
On another note, maybe it will also be possible to recycle newer binaries originally built for 10.5 into Snow Leopard PPC in the future?
I think it does, at least as of 2022. If it doesn't anymore then it will probably just need a new API key for whatever weather service it fetched data from (I don't recall off-hand).
I believe the consensus was that Sorbet's performance was comparable to regular Tiger, yet still slower than the post-Shuriken Tiger optimizations. From what I've seen, "Shuriken Tiger" is probably the fastest version of OS X available for any PPC system since 10.0 originally ran very sluggishly and only gradually got more responsive in successive releases.
Anecdotally, I would probably rank its performance somewhere between Panther and OS 9. A little faster than the former, a little slower than the latter (on single CPU systems). It is definitely faster than 10.0, 10.1, and 10.2 from what I've personally noted in boot times, launch times, network throughput, and graphical performance. Likely CPU performance as well since 10.4 has a more advanced scheduler than previous versions and after Shuriken only uses about as many threads as 10.2 or earlier, so it utilizes the CPU far more efficiently overall.
So in general, from fastest to slowest:
Shuriken Tiger (10.4.12) > Panther (10.3) > regular Tiger (10.4) / Sorbet (10.5.9) > Jaguar (10.2) > regular Leopard (10.5) > Puma (10.1) > Cheetah (10.0)
Though I'm not fully sure yet where Snow Leopard PPC would fit all else being equal.
I hope that was useful.
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Here are some examples how to build system components in a clean way, without introducing any dependency on ports (besides build time):
libdispatch
ld64
make
Generally, replacing executables should be safe (for example, I install darwin-xtools instead of Apple cctools on 10.6, it works perfectly fine). Replacing libraries is tricky and will require substantial work and testing (I mean if you want to update system components and not just rebuild something specific). I am not sure how this will be done practically. How it gonna be decided what specifically to update, in what order, to which versions, using what configure options? It is transparent how to rebuild components of a given macOS version: check Apple Releases, use those specific versions, perhaps check what Darwinbuild does, implement logic in ports. In this scenario we do not worry about compatibility at all. However if you begin updating libraries, that is non-trivial.
This is not to discourage that, it is actually desirable to update the system, including libstdc++ and perhaps Libc, but someone has to actually test everything (which likely means multiple builds, making OS unbootable on some occasions, fixing that, etc.).
What do you mean specifically? I do not see much point in forward-porting some Leopard stuff into SL, since it is nearly always better to build everything natively, and whenever something cannot be built on our 10.6 ppc (for example, due to using Xcode components which have no ppc slices), it is better to build it on 10.6.8 x86, but for ppc. Exceptions exist, but they are very rare.
If system components are meant, it is also pretty fast to build those, so we do not save much time by not building something natively.
In which scenarios we may want something from 10.5 borrowed into 10.6?
Nothing, really. It was just an idea to save time. I agree building natively is ideal.
While on the topic, I would actually prefer to contribute to the Snow Leopard project instead, but performing the necessary trial-and-error of importing / exporting kexts / frameworks around to fix issues, setting up a build environment and compiling new binaries, troubleshooting no-boot errors, and testing different configurations is going to require a certain regular time investment and prioritization I frankly cannot afford at least for the foreseeable future.
Meanwhile, a linear series of mostly predetermined steps to compile an update for Sorbet carries a much lower price tag in comparison, will at least resolve any remaining bugs, and the fact that I now daily a G4 and G5 again is just the excuse I needed to justify proceeding.
Anyway, thanks for the tips.