Star Trek: Alpha to Delta Quadrants & Everything In Between

[bradl]

Other than the cringy episode “Code of Honor” and cheesy music, I actually liked season 1.

No one liked that episode.. it was racist. In a few of the on-demand ST channels I've seen on, say, Pluto TV, that is one of the episodes they won't air in the US..

Conversely, the season 3 episode The High Ground is aired, but for a long time, was never aired in Ireland; it all but directly called out the government of Ireland, the IRA, and Sinn Fein.

BL.

 

[Mousse]

Star Trek connections with Shawshank Redemption

Zobral in ENT: Desert Crossing.

 

[jdoll021]

BSG, both the original and new series...

I guess that’s one area we differ. Loved original BSG but couldn’t stand the new BSG. I watched the miniseries and made it to episode 8 but just couldn’t stomach it anymore. I only picked it up again with the last few episodes. Interesting take on reaching “Earth.”

 

[jdoll021]

Star Trek: Prodigy Fans Take To The Skies To Save The Animated Show

#SaveStarTrekProdigy flies above Los Angeles.

screenrant.com

"A fan-created GoFundMe raised $1,200 to hire an airplane to fly a #SaveStarTrekProdigy banner over the offices of Amazon, Hulu, and Netflix in LA."

Liked for the gutsiness of the fan.

 

[jdoll021]

No one liked that episode.. it was racist. In a few of the on-demand ST channels I've seen on, say, Pluto TV, that is one of the episodes they won't air in the US..

Conversely, the season 3 episode The High Ground is aired, but for a long time, was never aired in Ireland; it all but directly called out the government of Ireland, the IRA, and Sinn Fein.

BL.

Ah yes, one of my Favs. I never really made the connection to the IRA though, probably because I understood where they were coming from, having been raised Catholic, even if I didn’t agree with their methods. Not that the actions of the British government were noble or just by any stretch of the word. Credit to the writers for portraying the government on that planet negatively also.

 

[cwerdna]

I was thinking similar, but with a different show altogether: Knight Rider.

The alum/roster:

Patricia MacPherson. Bonnie on Knight Rider, Beatta in TNG episode Angel One.

I had to look it up but that isn't quite right.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Patricia_McPherson played Ariel on that ep. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0574253/ did play Bonnie on Knight Rider.

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Beata is played by another actress.

 

[fatTribble]

I generally agree. But I’m old enough to remember when that was just called “live and let live.” Whatever it’s called these days, it’s still a rule I live by. I just don’t feel the need to wear it like a badge of honor. Solar Punk very much incorporates these things, but presents it as just being human.

Yep, I so wish that spirit of live and let live were more prevalent today. I’m often surprised at the number of people who feel the need to opine on any and every topic that arises. Luckily I don’t need to solve the world’s problems.

For me the badges come in to show support. I think if a parent has a kid who gets negative attention for being different, they feel the need to show support. Hope I didn’t misunderstand you. Just offering a perspective.

 

[fatTribble]

Idk, I always appreciated the creative ways writers followed the Roddenberry rule. You ended up with stories that showed future humans being moral, ethical, and just juxtaposed against other humanoid civilizations who weren’t there yet. When people see humans at their best, it gives them a vision of a future that people can identify with. I remember reading once that we may never achieve utopia, but offering visions of utopia gives us something to strive for.

I’ve often struggled to characterize my love of the show.
Two of my favorite ways I’ve heard others say are:

Star Trek shows us the best versions of ourselves.
Star Trek holds a mirror up to society.

 

[fatTribble]

Other than the cringy episode “Code of Honor” and cheesy music, I actually liked season 1.

I really like Season 1 too!
A few episodes in particular….

Where No One Has Gone Before (Great effects!)
Justice (Good Prime Directive episode)
Haven (I love Lwaxana)
The Big Goodbye
11001001 (Love seeing the Spacedock)
Symbiosis
We’ll Always Have Paris (Mostly for the Paris cafe set in the future)
The Neutral Zone (For making fun of people like me who worry about the stock market)

 

[cwerdna]

For those in the US, TIL about https://trekmovie.com/2023/09/02/st...e-on-youtube-prime-video-and-pluto-tv-in-usa/.
"‘Star Trek: Lower Decks’ Season 3 Available For Free On YouTube, Prime Video And Pluto TV In USA"

Article mentions the YouTube and Amazon Prime Video portions are for a limited time...

 

[Mousse]

We’ll Always Have Paris (Mostly for the Paris cafe set in the future)

The cafe might have been located at the top of Tour Montparnesse. Universally regarded as the best location to view Paris, as it is the only place in Paris you cannot see that tower.😂 Seriously though, the view from the top of the tower is breathtaking.👍

I'm hoping our more enlightened decendants tore down that eyesore before the 25th century.😁

 

[fatTribble]

A friend had an apartment right near there. Totally agree it does not fit the city at all!

 

[Mainsail]

I have ben re-watching some old Star Trek and thinking that recent incarnations (with the possible exception of SNW) are missing something. For example, the STE "Dear Doctor" episode. There was just so much more character development and positive messaging about humanity than what we get in "new" Star Trek. In these older episodes, the science fiction facilitates the story, but it isn't the main theme or message of the story.

BTW - STE was often criticized as the worse Star Trek TV series, and only had a 4 year run. But, I vastly prefer these episodes to new Star Trek. I could barely tell you the names of the main characters from Star Trek: Discovery. Too much of the story is focused on Spore Drives and Red Angles. However, I could easily tell you the names of every main character in STE, including the captain's dog Porthos.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

The cafe might have been located at the top of Tour Montparnesse. Universally regarded as the best location to view Paris, as it is the only place in Paris you cannot see that tower.😂 Seriously though, the view from the top of the tower is breathtaking.👍

I'm hoping our more enlightened decendants tore down that eyesore before the 25th century.😁

A friend had an apartment right near there. Totally agree it does not fit the city at all!

"French writer Guy de Maupassant frequently dined in one of the [Eiffel] tower’s restaurants, not because he was particularly fond of the cuisine on offer, but because, being inside the structure was the only way for a Parisian to avoid having to look at it."

The Artists Who Hated the Eiffel Tower - JSTOR Daily

Now an icon of modernism and avant-garde design, the Eiffel Tower was once seen by Parisian writers and artists as a blight on the cityscape.

daily.jstor.org

 

[bradl]

I have ben re-watching some old Star Trek and thinking that recent incarnations (with the possible exception of SNW) are missing something. For example, the STE "Dear Doctor" episode. There was just so much more character development and positive messaging about humanity than what we get in "new" Star Trek. In these older episodes, the science fiction facilitates the story, but it isn't the main theme or message of the story.

BTW - STE was often criticized as the worse Star Trek TV series, and only had a 4 year run. But, I vastly prefer these episodes to new Star Trek. I could barely tell you the names of the main characters from Star Trek: Discovery. Too much of the story is focused on Spore Drives and Red Angles. However, I could easily tell you the names of every main character in STE, including the captain's dog Porthos.

Funnily enough, STE was criticized as the worst ST TV series...

... yet it lasted longer than the original series outright. 😉

BL.

 

[Mainsail]

Funnily enough, STE was criticized as the worst ST TV series...

... yet it lasted longer than the original series outright. 😉

BL.

Yeah, I think STE gets excessively criticized. Recently, I noticed it was ranked #2 trending on Paramount....although I don't really know what that means. So, maybe folks appreciate it more 20 years later. The cast was absolutely fantastic. Of course, there were a few turkey episodes, but, it might be my favorite Star Trek series.....so go figure.

One big difference between the old vs new series: 25 episode vs 10 episodes. The old format gave more time for character development and opportunities to explore the human/moral dilemma. When I watch the new series, I sometimes feel like I am in watching someone play a video game. Of course, another factor is that special effects used to be of poor quality and expensive to create, so writers could not rely on them to fill air time. Today, much more can be created inexpensively on a computer.

 

[bradl]

Yeah, I think STE gets excessively criticized. Recently, I noticed it was ranked #2 trending on Paramount....although I don't really know what that means. So, maybe folks appreciate it more 20 years later. The cast was absolutely fantastic. Of course, there were a few turkey episodes, but, it might be my favorite Star Trek series.....so go figure.

One big difference between the old vs new series: 25 episode vs 10 episodes. The old format gave more time for character development and opportunities to explore the human/moral dilemma. When I watch the new series, I sometimes feel like I am in watching someone play a video game. Of course, another factor is that special effects used to be of poor quality and expensive to create, so writers could not rely on them to fill air time. Today, much more can be created inexpensively on a computer.

It isn't just that; we are no longer a slave to Network TV. When those shows came out (I'll exclude TNG, because it went straight to Syndication, meaning it had no major network channel backing it), we were at the mercy of the networks not only finding a slot for them, but for them to fill that slot with something for an extended period of time, let alone including their time for advertising. So we had the 13-25 shows in a year, including the ads for it, for them to make their money.

Now with the glut of avenues to watch it, we are no longer slaves to that old model, and the networks know that that model is a losing battle. Look at how many shows are now on any major network, and the quality of those shows. In all honesty, I haven't watched anything on network TV since Heroes, and probably never will. I can see where 10-13 episodes for a season would be enough, because they are going to be binge watched now instead of waiting for a week, or even an entire season of reruns while waiting for the cliffhanging end-of-season show to resolve itself the next season.

As for the shows being appreciated more, The good thing about ST is that it ages well. I can only think of 2 episodes that didn't age well, and they were both in TNG: Code of Honor (already discussed), and The Neutral Zone. In the Neutral Zone, there is a scene where Sonny Clemmons (one of the guys brought back from the dead via cryonics) thanks Dr. Crusher for her work, tells her that she is "the prettiest little doctor he had ever seen, then gently smacks her behind/pinches her behind.

That... would definitely not fly today. But everything else from those classic series (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) all have aged very well.

BL.

 

[phrehdd]

I have ben re-watching some old Star Trek and thinking that recent incarnations (with the possible exception of SNW) are missing something. For example, the STE "Dear Doctor" episode. There was just so much more character development and positive messaging about humanity than what we get in "new" Star Trek. In these older episodes, the science fiction facilitates the story, but it isn't the main theme or message of the story.

BTW - STE was often criticized as the worse Star Trek TV series, and only had a 4 year run. But, I vastly prefer these episodes to new Star Trek. I could barely tell you the names of the main characters from Star Trek: Discovery. Too much of the story is focused on Spore Drives and Red Angles. However, I could easily tell you the names of every main character in STE, including the captain's dog Porthos.

I think there was plenty to like about STE and I had my own dislikes about certain facets. However, I also liked some facets of Discovery early on and the respectful way they handled the alternate universe as did STE. All for me was okay until they jumped forward in time because Brocolli boy had a tantrum and made things go boom and sci fi took a back seat to politics, crap storytelling along with a terrible lead character. Given a choice of the two, I would watch STE without blinking an eye though I will miss from Discovery Michelle Yeoh.

 

[fatTribble]

It isn't just that; we are no longer a slave to Network TV. When those shows came out (I'll exclude TNG, because it went straight to Syndication, meaning it had no major network channel backing it), we were at the mercy of the networks not only finding a slot for them, but for them to fill that slot with something for an extended period of time, let alone including their time for advertising. So we had the 13-25 shows in a year, including the ads for it, for them to make their money.

Now with the glut of avenues to watch it, we are no longer slaves to that old model, and the networks know that that model is a losing battle. Look at how many shows are now on any major network, and the quality of those shows. In all honesty, I haven't watched anything on network TV since Heroes, and probably never will. I can see where 10-13 episodes for a season would be enough, because they are going to be binge watched now instead of waiting for a week, or even an entire season of reruns while waiting for the cliffhanging end-of-season show to resolve itself the next season.

As for the shows being appreciated more, The good thing about ST is that it ages well. I can only think of 2 episodes that didn't age well, and they were both in TNG: Code of Honor (already discussed), and The Neutral Zone. In the Neutral Zone, there is a scene where Sonny Clemmons (one of the guys brought back from the dead via cryonics) thanks Dr. Crusher for her work, tells her that she is "the prettiest little doctor he had ever seen, then gently smacks her behind/pinches her behind.

That... would definitely not fly today. But everything else from those classic series (TOS, TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) all have aged very well.

BL.

But wasn’t the scene you described with Dr Crusher meant to show how times have changed and that’s no longer acceptable?

 

[bradl]

But wasn’t the scene you described with Dr Crusher meant to show how times have changed and that’s no longer acceptable?

Yet it happened. It was still acceptable in 1987, but not now, proving that that part hadn’t aged well.

BL.

 

[phrehdd]

Yet it happened. It was still acceptable in 1987, but not now, proving that that part hadn’t aged well.

BL.

It is acceptable now to adults because they know it is reflecting to value systems - one of long ago and one of the tie of the show. I don't care about this woke stuff so for me (and I am sure others), it remains more than reasonable.

 

[bradl]

It is acceptable now to adults because they know it is reflecting to value systems - one of long ago and one of the tie of the show. I don't care about this woke stuff so for me (and I am sure others), it remains more than reasonable.

Smacking a woman on their backside is acceptable? There have been many a person who have been accused of harassment or worse for doing similar. A certain President of Spain's Soccer Federation and World Cup team and his actions would be a solid example of what isn't acceptable now.

That's why I said that his actions, especially in relation to today's climate, did not age well.

BL.

 

[Eric5h5]

One big difference between the old vs new series: 25 episode vs 10 episodes. The old format gave more time for character development and opportunities to explore the human/moral dilemma.

You mean more time for forgettable filler episodes. It wasn't common finding shows that could actually justify 26 episodes per year, and most of Star Trek wasn't really an exception.

Of course, another factor is that special effects used to be of poor quality and expensive to create, so writers could not rely on them to fill air time. Today, much more can be created inexpensively on a computer.

Well, no. That's the exact opposite of reality. Things are much more expensive now and take much longer; you can't film an episode in a week anymore. That's generally why there are fewer episodes. Back in the 90s, $2-$3 million/episode was considered expensive, but now you have shows like House of the Dragon coming in at $20 million/ep, and a few of the Marvel shows are even more. (And Stranger Things 4 at $30 million/ep, though that's not quite comparable since the episodes were very long.)

Everything has to be in 4K, it has to be essentially movie quality since that's what audiences expect now, and you need to painstakingly create detail that would have been unreadable on a low-res NTSC screen (or slightly less low-res PAL screen). The computers don't create the effects, they just render them and automate certain things. This doesn't make anything less expensive, it just raises the bar for what you can do...the real work is done by people, and lots more of them compared to old shows. LOTS more.

Most shows have abbreviated credits that just list the fx companies and maybe the leads, but take a look at credits for, say, the Star Wars shows...literally hundreds (and hundreds) of names, with half a dozen different fx houses. And still the studios put the artists through insane hours to the point where many of them end up quitting because of the stress. It's far beyond the days where you could get away with a few modelers in a shop who can put together some plastic and cardboard and call it a spaceship.

 

[fatTribble]

Anyone else excited for Lower Decks? 🤓

 

[phrehdd]

Smacking a woman on their backside is acceptable? There have been many a person who have been accused of harassment or worse for doing similar. A certain President of Spain's Soccer Federation and World Cup team and his actions would be a solid example of what isn't acceptable now.

That's why I said that his actions, especially in relation to today's climate, did not age well.

BL.

What was the reaction within the show to the smacking? The person that smacked her - what generation did he represent? I think that was part of the point as in the disparity of acceptable behaviors.