Still on Catalina, Should I Update to Big Sur 11.1?

[Takuro]

It might be as good a time as any to take the plunge. I downloaded 11.0.1 to an external drive and felt it was too buggy to be a daily driver. I actually had a hell of a time just installing it. 11.1 seems to be better. Once I disabled SIP and got the ability to use kernel extensions again, pretty much everything is working as it does in Catalina, which my internal drive is still using. OnyX also just came out with a Big Sur compatible version, and for me, that's one of the last things I wait for.

Pretty much the only thing left, in my view, are some utilities to customize Big Sur a little more. But theming has been dead for a while now in macOS, and it's even harder now because modifying system files is now much more complicated. I think I am still just turned off by some things that changed but will get used to it.

 

[mwidjaya]

am still on Mojave 10.14.6 which is still regularly updated by Apple and works lust fine so I think I'll stay with it for the time being

That is sensible. Good decision.

Even if you are tempted by Big Sur, maybe wait till dust settles in next release (11.2).

what is a "clean install"

The purest form is erase disk, install, and setup computer as new.

Experienced users can, in a few of hours, install apps fresh, set it up and copying of files from backup.

Why?
- If current machine is heavily customised, with lots of apps installed and removed over the years.
- If new OS is a big step change from current

The idea is to leave crufts behind and don't carry problems across. Also an opportunity to cull old apps that are not needed/used.

Some people do a semi clean install, meaning erase disk, install and use migration assistant to restore apps/data from the backup.

 

[cheddar-caveman]

Thanks mwidjaya. I haven't bothered with Catalina having read so many complaints on here, maybe it'll happen with BS😎😎

 

[colourfastt]

Which Mac and year model are you using?

2013 MBA

 

[posguy99]

It’s too much work to ‘down’grade back at the moment.
Or if you can do it without loosing settings and data, I would love to know. Do it straight away.

Didn't you make a backup before you made a major software change?

 

[funkypepper]

Actually there is a hidden-on-plain-sight Apple metric for this. When the latest Xcode version is not supported on the previous OS, it means it's safe to upgrade for production.

For Catalina, it was 10.15.4 if I remember correctly.

But still, I am talking out of my arse, so take my word with a grain of salt.

 

[macswitcha2]

I will say that I installed BS and ran with it for several weeks without any problems, BUT a couple of days ago it started throwing kernel panics regularly (including 3 in 1 hour!). I did a clean reinstall but some problem in the install caused Finder to freeze and it wouldn't relaunch, some unknown process (I could never find it) caused my fan to ramp up to high speed and stay there, and some other problem caused no browser to load pages or download files. So, I did another reinstall (not clean this time) hoping to "fix" whatever was corrupted in the initial install—no such luck, same problems. So, I ended up doing an internet recovery, and now I'm back on Catalina. I guess I'm going to stay on this OS for the foreseeable future.

Same problem here, however, Catalina started to hit me with kernel panics consecutively. The only way I was able to get a break is by disabling FileVault and Secure Boot and no third-party apps installed. I have a 2018 MacBook Pro and I think men's is one of the faulty ones. Hoping Apple will swap it out for a different model.

 

[honestone33]

Whether one does a clean, fresh installation, or just an upgrade "in place", one must ALWAYS make the following preparations:

1. Do as much disk cleanup on your own as possible, Actually, that needs to be a daily task.
2. Insure that all the third party applications one uses are compatible with the new OS.
3. And the most important one: make backups, make backups, make backups. Time Machine is oK, but I prefer SuperDuper! (SD) (Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC) is a similar, stellar program).

As for a clean installation, using a backup program like SD or CCC makes it much easier. Here are the steps to take:

1. Download the full clean installer file of the OS (or version) one wants.
2. Copy it to another location on your Mac's internal device.
3. Remove the one in your Applications folder (why waste space?).
4. Myself, I use Onyx and Tech Tool Pro to assist with disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs. Hence, I run them.
5. Launch SuperDuper! and make a bootable backup/clone to my external SSD.
6. Restart my Mac from that SD clone.
7. Use Disk Utility there to Erase and Format the internal device on my Mac.
8. Navigate to the location of the OS file downloaded above, launch it, and do a clean, fresh installation of that OS (or new version) onto the Mac's internal device.
9. At the end, you'll be offered the opportunity to migrate files, folders, settings, apps, etc. from one of 3 sources: a Time Machine backup, another Mac, or another backup. I of course would choose that third one, ie, the just completed SD backup, and perform the migration form it.
10. When that completes, restart my Mac from its internal device.

All done! I have used that method so many, many times, all the time with flawless success.

 

[macswitcha2]

Whether one does a clean, fresh installation, or just an upgrade "in place", one must ALWAYS make the following preparations:

1. Do as much disk cleanup on your own as possible, Actually, that needs to be a daily task.
2. Insure that all the third party applications one uses are compatible with the new OS.
3. And the most important one: make backups, make backups, make backups. Time Machine is oK, but I prefer SuperDuper! (SD) (Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC) is a similar, stellar program).

As for a clean installation, using a backup program like SD or CCC makes it much easier. Here are the steps to take:

1. Download the full clean installer file of the OS (or version) one wants.
2. Copy it to another location on your Mac's internal device.
3. Remove the one in your Applications folder (why waste space?).
4. Myself, I use Onyx and Tech Tool Pro to assist with disk cleanup/maintenance/repairs. Hence, I run them.
5. Launch SuperDuper! and make a bootable backup/clone to my external SSD.
6. Restart my Mac from that SD clone.
7. Use Disk Utility there to Erase and Format the internal device on my Mac.
8. Navigate to the location of the OS file downloaded above, launch it, and do a clean, fresh installation of that OS (or new version) onto the Mac's internal device.
9. At the end, you'll be offered the opportunity to migrate files, folders, settings, apps, etc. from one of 3 sources: a Time Machine backup, another Mac, or another backup. I of course would choose that third one, ie, the just completed SD backup, and perform the migration form it.
10. When that completes, restart my Mac from its internal device.

All done! I have used that method so many, many times, all the time with flawless success.

I'm saving these instructions. Thanks! Can you save the installer file on to a Micro SD Card? And since you use OnyX, do you delete it it before the clean install since the app is only compatible to a specific macOS?

Also, there seems to be a misstep on your instructions. You said save the installer file of the OS somewhere the internal Mac. But then you said erase the and format the Mac. and then navigate to the location of the installer file. But how can you navigate to it if you've erased it? Do you mean save the installer file of the OS on the external drive?

Update: never mind the questions. I see, you're now using the bootable backup of the OS to do the rest. Got it.

 

[Starfia]

I've had one or two major bugs with the first version of Big Sur, but I think I narrowed them down to the experimental VP9 decoder in Safari or a reset of my NVRAM. More on that here.

Aside from adjusting to the new feature (Notification Center and widgets are nearly redone from scratch, and windows and their modal sheets are quite different), I feel like things are running smoothly. "Look Around" in Maps on the Mac is fantastic.

 

[jamietshaw]

There is barely anything new so I wouldn’t bother to rush. Generally though, it’s fine but I have run into some annoying problems:

• The search in Mail just doesn’t work sometimes
• I sometimes double-click on a file in the Finder and nothing happens
• And there have been some really odd problems such as the text cursor in Messages going all over the place (I think they might have now fixed that though)

And a few changes which seem a downgrade if you use them:

• You have to wait for the litte icon in the window title to appear before you can drag it somewhere
• The calculator in Spotlight isn’t so useful, e.g. if you type “12in” to see conversions for 12 inches, you only see one conversion and you must press Return before you can see the other conversions (and the ability to highlight and copy)
• The little X against messages in Messages isn’t there any more and there isn’t (by default) a keyboard shortcut, so you end up right-clicking to delete which seems quite un-Apple like!

 

[funkypepper]

• You have to wait for the litte icon in the window title to appear before you can drag it somewhere
• The little X against messages in Messages isn’t there any more and there isn’t (by default) a keyboard shortcut, so you end up right-clicking to delete which seems quite un-Apple like!

You can press Option to get the proxy icon displayed immediately.

Regarding Messages, it's a Catalyst app, so I'd expect it to have quirks. Giving feedback to Apple would probably help though.

 

[bigchief]

2013 MBA

Ok I have a late 2013 MacBook Pro and I think I will wait.

 

[honestone33]

I'm saving these instructions. Thanks! Can you save the installer file on to a Micro SD Card? And since you use OnyX, do you delete it it before the clean install since the app is only compatible to a specific macOS?

Also, there seems to be a misstep on your instructions. You said save the installer file of the OS somewhere the internal Mac. But then you said erase the and format the Mac. and then navigate to the location of the installer file. But how can you navigate to it if you've erased it? Do you mean save the installer file of the OS on the external drive?

Update: never mind the questions. I see, you're now using the bootable backup of the OS to do the rest. Got it.

Yes, the installer file will be on the bootable backup. Thus, why the need to copy it to a Micro SD Card?

Also, the reason I said to copy it to another location is that it does not get deleted/removed after you use it, like it would if you left it in the Applications folder. No reason to have to download it again.

 

[macswitcha2]

Yes, the installer file will be on the bootable backup. Thus, why the need to copy it to a Micro SD Card?

Also, the reason I said to copy it to another location is that it does not get deleted/removed after you use it, like it would if you left it in the Applications folder. No reason to have to download it again.

Thanks! It's been a while since I've done a clean install. In terms of how, I copy the Installer app in Applications folder and then paste it in the bootable backup?

 

[honestone33]

Thanks! It's been a while since I've done a clean install. In terms of how, I copy the Installer app in Applications folder and then paste it in the bootable backup?

No. When you first download it, it will wind up inside the Applications Folder. The Backup has not been made yet, at that point. You would copy it at that tine (before the backup is made) to another location on your internal drive. In my case, I have a folder entitled "Needed Documents" inside my Users folder. And inside the "Needed Documents" folder, I have a folder entitled "Upgrades", and inside that, I have a folder entitled "OS 11.x and Upgrades". Graphically here is what that looks like:

Users > Needed Documents > Upgrades > OS 11.x and Upgrades.

I copied the OS 11.1 Full Installer file from the Applications folder to that folder entitled "OS 11.x and Upgrades". Once I confirmed it was there, I removed the one that was in my Applications folder. And of course that Installer file is still there.

Again, all of that was done before the SuperDuper! backup was made. That installer file would be included in the SuperDuper! backup. So, once you restart your Mac from that SD backup, and after using Disk Utility to Erase and Format your internal drive, that hierarchy is where you would navigate to so that you could launch the installer.

 

[Ocnetgeek]

I would wait. It’s horrible.
I regret ‘up’grading it to Big Sur. So manny issues.

The biggest is speed. Where I could fully use the Mac within 30 seconds to a minute. I now have to wait 5+ minutes to use.

And even then. Finder will show me the beachball and spotlight doesn’t work. iMessage crashes or won’t even start. I have to reboot often.

It’s too much work to ‘down’grade back at the moment.
Or if you can do it without loosing settings and data, I would love to know. Do it straight away.

(iMac late 2015 16gb fusion drive)
Edit: although I do have 11.1. These issues where from the start of installing Big Sur. I hoped 11.1 would’ve fixed it.

I agree with this. When coming out of sleep my MacBook Pro takes time and I often get a beach ball for minutes before being able to login

 

[macswitcha2]

No. When you first download it, it will wind up inside the Applications Folder. The Backup has not been made yet, at that point. You would copy it at that tine (before the backup is made) to another location on your internal drive. In my case, I have a folder entitled "Needed Documents" inside my Users folder. And inside the "Needed Documents" folder, I have a folder entitled "Upgrades", and inside that, I have a folder entitled "OS 11.x and Upgrades". Graphically here is what that looks like:

Users > Needed Documents > Upgrades > OS 11.x and Upgrades.

I copied the OS 11.1 Full Installer file from the Applications folder to that folder entitled "OS 11.x and Upgrades". Once I confirmed it was there, I removed the one that was in my Applications folder. And of course that Installer file is still there.

Again, all of that was done before the SuperDuper! backup was made. That installer file would be included in the SuperDuper! backup. So, once you restart your Mac from that SD backup, and after using Disk Utility to Erase and Format your internal drive, that hierarchy is where you would navigate to so that you could launch the installer.

Ok, got it. So simply click on it from where you saved it and it should give me the option to install it on the internal HD?

 

[honestone33]

Ok, got it. So simply click on it from where you saved it and it should give me the option to install it on the internal HD?

Yes. It's just like starting it up from the Applications folder.

 

[alien3dx]

my issue with big surr

1. My imac broke cannot on twice (shop said power surge). I dont understand either but
i take no risk one ups and avr for it.
2. Sleep issue .
3. backup issue - mysql . If i had new big surr i need to find same repo mysql version to restore it and only work same version mysql.
** before i restore using my friend mac mini 2019 using external boot.

I need stable os and if in the future will bought mac mini arm and stay with current os and never update new again. dam scare.

 

[JohnnyWalker]

Does upgrading to a new macOS undo your settings?

No, it's perfect fine to upgrade macOS. It's designed for it. Ignore anyone who tries to tell you to do a "clean" install. It's far more hassle than it's worth.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

No, it's perfect fine to upgrade macOS. It's designed for it. Ignore anyone who tries to tell you to do a "clean" install. It's far more hassle than it's worth.

I agree and in fact all the OS'es are designed for it nowadays. Windows 10 as well as Linux are designed to be upgraded rather than having to do a clean install. I have upgraded many Windows PC's including major upgrades and nothing broke or was missing. Linux is pretty much the same way. Most Linux distro's now have the ability to upgrade the release from within the software updater.

 

[cbr600]

I upgraded my 2020 13” MBP to BS. It certainly “feels” slower. I had to upgrade VMWare and there are a few apps that don’t run but are in the process of being updated. I upgraded to try it out and to stay with the latest OS. But I may revert to Catalina. Have not decided yet.

 

[brbrown]

I would wait. It’s horrible.
I regret ‘up’grading it to Big Sur. So manny issues.

The biggest is speed. Where I could fully use the Mac within 30 seconds to a minute. I now have to wait 5+ minutes to use.

And even then. Finder will show me the beachball and spotlight doesn’t work. iMessage crashes or won’t even start. I have to reboot often.

It’s too much work to ‘down’grade back at the moment.
Or if you can do it without loosing settings and data, I would love to know. Do it straight away.

(iMac late 2015 16gb fusion drive)
Edit: although I do have 11.1. These issues where from the start of installing Big Sur. I hoped 11.1 would’ve fixed it.

Hello Thor. I found the same problem with the speed. It now takes a lot longer to start up so I wonder what Apple will do about it. Surely they could produce an update that will solve the problem. Brian

 

[honestone33]

No, it's perfect fine to upgrade macOS. It's designed for it. Ignore anyone who tries to tell you to do a "clean" install. It's far more hassle than it's worth.

No, it's not a hassle at all to do a clean installation. In fact, unless one is moving from Catalina, it would be better, cleaner, and safer to do a clean, fresh installation. Just remember to do the 3 things I stated above:

1. As much disk cleanup as posisble.
2. Third party software compatibility.
3. Backup, backup, backup!

I am still going to do a clean installation of (most likely, V11.2) of Big Sur on both of my Macs, even though I am running the latest version of Catalina (V10.15.7) on both machines.