Storage Solutions for our OUT-OF-CONTROL iTunes Libraries

[Keebler]

Holy sh*t! You're already needing a SECOND drobo!

well, if ascender looks for it, he might find a good deal on a drobo usb 2.0. i saw one for $100 less after the fw800's came out.

ascender, your backing up concern is why i'm going the route of a pc box with ubuntu on it (whenever that is). i'm going to have a load of data...probably 3-4 gbs to start . doh! but i'm 6 months to a year away so we'll see what happens technology wise by then.

 

[jb60606]

YAY! A FW800 Drobo was released.

 

[fivepoint]

well, if ascender looks for it, he might find a good deal on a drobo usb 2.0. i saw one for $100 less after the fw800's came out.

ascender, your backing up concern is why i'm going the route of a pc box with ubuntu on it (whenever that is). i'm going to have a load of data...probably 3-4 gbs to start . doh! but i'm 6 months to a year away so we'll see what happens technology wise by then.

Actually, they are going for $150 less ($350) on most sites. That is the published price by drobo. Old model for $350, or new with FW800 for $500.

For my setup, all I would need would be the USB model (since I would be hooking up via airport extreme) but, I think I would still spring for the new model? Not sure.

 

[jb60606]

Actually, they are going for $150 less ($350) on most sites. That is the published price by drobo. Old model for $350, or new with FW800 for $500.

For my setup, all I would need would be the USB model (since I would be hooking up via airport extreme) but, I think I would still spring for the new model? Not sure.

The new one has both "enhanced" USB and FW800, I believe. I'd go for the new one. I wish I would have waited a bit before I bought my drobo, though I am perfectly happy with it, and does what it's supposed to do.

 

[prostuff1]

Slightly off topic but I looked into unRaid too. My understanding is that with all your drives, you can't make them appear as one big share similar to a regular RAID5. Does that sound right? I was never really clear on that answer so I went with a traditional RAID.

There is a user shares feature that will "simulate" the joining of disks. If you have disk1/DVD and disk2/DVD they can be represented as one DVD folder. This can be done with as many shares as you like. The only downside of shares is that you can't write to them, yet. Hopefully there will be an update so that this is possible.

I am really liking unRaid. There are still a lot of things to do to make it better and more user friendly but it is getting there. The main thing that needs to be accomplished is some unified form for installing add-on so that the average user can do it.

 

[liketom]

I'm having troubles with Storage and iTunes

this is what i have:

Apple TV
Time Capsule 500gb
1TB Mybook World ( ethernet )
1 x USB Mybook 500gb plugged in to TC

my iTunes Lib called iTunes Network on my MBP is set up not to store any files locally, so should run from the network.

Apple TV works ok for this and plays through the Shared Lib Menu screen.

However - my iTunes Network Lib crashes and beachballs to death on my mac ?

from what i can work out Mybook Word is - 10/100/1000 Ethernet but is limited to 10MB due to crappy Cpu inside

file transfers to Mybook World take about 10-15 Min per GB which is dog slow

if only i can plug the dam thing direct into my Apple TV via Ethernet and leave it like that

Any body got any idea's for me ?

 

[jeremyrader]

Things I took into consideration for external storage:

1. Backup vs. storage. They aren't the same thing. I want storage - my MBP's 120GB and iMac's 250GB are not enough for what I want, which is all my media (including DVD backups) in one location.
   
2. Single vs. multiple drives. For anyone who has lost data from a hd crash, the choice is simple. If you're only doing backups (i.e. saving data that is saved somewhere else) then a single drive makes sense. But it would be a foolish choice for dedicated external storage.
   
3. Prebuilt server vs. DIY beige box. I like the Drobo and a few of the other similar setups. But I can build a DIY PC-based system that does what I want for a lot less. Hot-swap capability is not high on my list. And I really don't like the idea of using my iMac as a go-between for everything else. I want a single source (i.e. server) feeding multiple devices with nothing but a router. I would have loved to have found a cheap G4 or G5 Mac Pro and used it as a server, but there's no such thing... plus there's the media server software issue.
   
4. RAID. Currently leaning toward RAID 5. Recently started looking at UnRaid, but I don't understand it enough to commit just yet. See #2 above...
   
5. iTunes vs. 3rd party software. Apple TV only looks for iTunes. iTunes doesn't support non-Apple devices. Tversity is 3rd party freeware that converts on-the-fly for whatever device is requesting. This means I can store all my media in iTunes-friendly formats for a possible TV, and stream to any other device (Wii, X-Box, D-Link, etc.) in the meantime.
   
6. OS. Not bothering with a Hackintosh. TVersity is Win only for now, so XP it is.

I pulled my old homebuilt PC out of the closet to see how hard it would be to set up as a server, communicating/sharing with the macs and the hubs. It currently has a 3.2 GHz P4 (Northwood), 2GB RAM, and an 80GB IDE hard drive; running XP Pro with TVersity as the media server. I have a D-Link DSM-320 hub and will have a Wii later this week, plus I stream to my MBP and iMac every now and then. I'm keeping everything filed in the PC's iTunes library in the event I want to add an TV later. I'll also be adding some sort of screen sharing support so I can stick the box in a different closet, along with the wireless router, and administer from one of the Macs.

Overall I'm pretty happy with it, but I'm quite aware of its limitations. Music is not an issue, but the 3500 kbps DVD rips sometimes get choppy in the streaming/conversion process (wireless-G with aluminum wall studs doesn't help either, I'm sure). The processor is getting upgraded to a new 45nm Core2 Quad (overkill, yes, but I get 'em for free ), which means a mobo upgrade as well (probably Abit w/on-board video/sound, RAID 5, and Intel chipsets for possible UnRaid compatability). The DDR2 800MHz RAM will transfer over fine.

I learned a hard lesson by transferring all my media files (TV shows, music, and years of family pics) to a single external hard drive - and then losing everything when it failed in less than 6 months (Western Digital, no less). So I'll be starting off with two 500GB or 1TB SATA drives (RAID 1 most likely), then add a new one every 6 months or so until full (the mobo I'm most interested in can support 6 internal + 2 eSATA). I may give UnRaid a chance, but RAID 5 is the current long-term plan.

I'll reload XP Pro, but probably have Ubuntu as a bootable option. TVersity is Win only for now, and I really like the convert-on-the-fly method for multiple hubs preferring multiple formats.

I realize that I don't actually have an TV right now, but I'm in a similar situation as most others in this thread, and I'm not ruling out TV as an option down the road.

 

[fivepoint]

I lucked out the other day. My 750GB iomega ultramax drive died (I know, doesn't sound like I 'lucked out', does it?) I was using it as my Time Machine Drive, so I didn't lose any data... just a backup. However, I wanted a replacement right away. I called up Iomega (the drive was only 3 months old) and told them I wanted a replacement. They told me it would take 4 weeks to get it. 4 weeks! For $25 I could have it at my house within 2 days. I paid the money.

To make a long story short, the the replacement drive I got was broken, then the next one was broken, and a few weeks later after finally getting a functioning one, I told them I wanted some reimbursement. I got a second 750gb drive for free. Not bad! Hopefully I have good luck with these two drives.

Instead of getting a drobo now, all I need is a single 1tb external, and I'm all set for the solution I want.

 

[DarkHeraldMage]

...My 750GB iomega ultramax drive died...

To make a long story short, the the replacement drive I got was broken, then the next one was broken, and a few weeks later after finally getting a functioning one, I told them I wanted some reimbursement. I got a second 750gb drive for free. Not bad! Hopefully I have good luck with these two drives.

...

Umm...doesn't sound like I'd be trusting those drives to anything of much importance.

 

[fivepoint]

Umm...doesn't sound like I'd be trusting those drives to anything of much importance.

Well, every manufacturer makes some lemons... and the problem with the replacement drives I got was a software thing. They weren't formatted properly from the factory, and I had to do some run-around thing to get them formatted correctly as mac extended HFS+.

I think they will be just fine. At any rate, I always have at least one backup for all of my stuff. As long as the drives don't die at the same time, I'll be fine.

 

[livingfortoday]

I saw a lot of Drobo-talk in this thread, and thought I'd just pop in and say it's the best damn drive-holdy thingamajig I've ever used. Love it to death, even though I also keep a 4-drive case around (but away from home) to back it up just in case the Drobo dies or gets broken in a natural disaster or theft.

 

[LERsince1991]

OK I need serious Help designing my setup. I'm very technically able but my head is just scrambled at the moment. Just lost a laptop (crashed completely, I'm trying to fix it at the moment, the hard drives good luckily)
I need to change my network completely for alot of reasons. Its a family network hence the amount of pc's
My current NAS is rubbish and has about 40GB of space left so I will need to replace it anyway and hopefully before I loose all my media since its not backed up and I recon the NAS hard drive is going...
I think its best to draw a picture so here it is.
Any questions please ask!
Please HELP

PS. The remote access isn't that important so don't concentrate on that, just need to know how to use the same itunes library as described, and what would work.

 

[.mark.]

this is what I'd do - won't be cheap and I'm sure someone will have a cheaper solution:

Things to buy:
-Drobo + storage
-Mac Mini
-Software to sync itunes libraries

Basically get as much storage as you need for the drobo and use the mac mini as a time machine/itunes/file server.

To keep all the itunes libraries in sync look into these products (1, 2)

That should do you and you could also use the mini to do things like rip dvds. It's a solution that I'm strongly considering.

 

[AliensAreFuzzy]

OK, I'm excited. My drobo is supposed to be delivered today

I've got 2 500GB and 2 750GB drives waiting for it.

 

[t0mat0]

Snow Leopard on a Mac mini, ZFS, and a lot of external hard drives. Oh yes.
Having seen the problems with Drobo, I kept well away - If you're going RAID, you may as well have a properly used form of it. I don't want all my drives going down.

 

[Dmac77]

My current setup (which sucks), is made up of my iMac acting as my main computer and entertainment center a 80GB Lacie external HDD, an AirPort Extreme, and my iBook.

The iMac has all of my media on it, and streams to my iBook. The most important content (Rolling Stones catalog, and the Beatles Catalog) in my iTunes library is backed up on the LaCie Drive. The iMac is wired to the AEBS, and the iBook is connected wirelessly to the network. I also have my XBOX 360 wired to the AEBS.

I have a DROBO on my christmas wish list, and if I get it, I'll pop 2 1TB drives in it, and split it up in to two partitions. One for TM, and the other for my media. I'll then use it to stream media to my XBOX 360, iBook, and iMac.

Question to those with a DROBO, do you recommend getting it with drives already in it, or buying them yourself?

Don

 

[AliensAreFuzzy]

I have a DROBO on my christmas wish list, and if I get it, I'll pop 2 1TB drives in it, and split it up in to two partitions. One for TM, and the other for my media. I'll then use it to stream media to my XBOX 360, iBook, and iMac.

Question to those with a DROBO, do you recommend getting it with drives already in it, or buying them yourself?

Don

I'd get more than just 2 drives for the drobo. With the data redundancy, you lose the capacity of your largest drive, so with two drive you only get half the space.
I would definitely suggest getting drives yourself. You can find some great deals on NewEgg and Fry's. I got 2 750GB for $110 each a few weeks ago.

 

[Dmac77]

I'd get more than just 2 drives for the drobo. With the data redundancy, you lose the capacity of your largest drive, so with two drive you only get half the space.
I would definitely suggest getting drives yourself. You can find some great deals on NewEgg and Fry's. I got 2 750GB for $110 each a few weeks ago.

Thanks! Another question, will I notice speed differences if I get 7200 or 10000 RPM HDD's? I'll be using FW800, with the DROBO. Will the FW800 cap the speed below what a 7200 or 10000 RPM drive can read and write?

Thanks!

Don

 

[Karpfish]

Thanks! Another question, will I notice speed differences if I get 7200 or 10000 RPM HDD's? I'll be using FW800, with the DROBO. Will the FW800 cap the speed below what a 7200 or 10000 RPM drive can read and write?

Thanks!

Don

No need to get 10,000RPM drives with a Drobo or even inside a system IMO, but the Drobo will be bottlenecked by the FW not the drive.

 

[Dmac77]

No need to get 10,000RPM drives with a Drobo or even inside a system IMO, but the Drobo will be bottlenecked by the FW not the drive.

OK, So I should just go with normal 5400 RPM then. Right?

Don

 

[Karpfish]

OK, So I should just go with normal 5400 RPM then. Right?

Don

At 5400RPM i'm not sure, but that may still be OK for the drobo. I'm really not sure though. I think i may be investing in a Drobo soon because I am sick of plugging in multiple HD's.

 

[AliensAreFuzzy]

OK, So I should just go with normal 5400 RPM then. Right?

Don

3.5in drives typically are 7200RPM. 5400RPM is pretty low.

 

[Dmac77]

3.5in drives typically are 7200RPM. 5400RPM is pretty low.

OK thank you! As you can probably tell hard ware isn't my thing, I'm content with software though. Another question (sorry) I was looking on newegg, and saw 3.5" drives that were 5400-7200 RPM, does this just mean that they spin down to 5400 RPM when not in use?

Don

 

[prostuff1]

OK I need serious Help designing my setup. I'm very technically able but my head is just scrambled at the moment. Just lost a laptop (crashed completely, I'm trying to fix it at the moment, the hard drives good luckily)
I need to change my network completely for alot of reasons. Its a family network hence the amount of pc's
My current NAS is rubbish and has about 40GB of space left so I will need to replace it anyway and hopefully before I loose all my media since its not backed up and I recon the NAS hard drive is going...
I think its best to draw a picture so here it is.
Any questions please ask!
Please HELP

PS. The remote access isn't that important so don't concentrate on that, just need to know how to use the same itunes library as described, and what would work.

The remote access is a little tricky so i will forget it for now and move on.

I am a huge fan of the homebuilt server and unRaid. Just do some searching for my username and you should be able to find some of the posts. My setup right now consist of a homebuilt server with 2x750GB HD and 1x500GB HD (with another 500GB to be added shortly), along with 2 laptops on the network. I have the NAS wired to my router (not a Gig router right now, but soon to be). The way i have it set up is the server houses my DVD collection, music collection and general storage. I use a program called MultiTunes to manage the multiple library's i have. I have a "server library" that has all my music, video's, and audio books and then i have a "mobile library that contains all the music i might need when i am traveling. The mobile library is a fraction of the size of my server one. It can be a little tricky to set up the two separate libraries and it might take a few tries. Just make sure you ALWAYS have a backup of your library that you are not messing with, and ALWAYS let MultiTunes create the new library for you (i.e. do not use the "hold option key trick when starting iTunes").

I suggest connecting the NAS/server to the network via ethernet and not USB, the speeds over Ethernet will be much better. And look into building your own server. It does not take much power to run one and you could even use an old computer you have laying around. A little research on the subject and some time and you can have one up and running pretty quickly. The most expensive part about the server is actually the drives.

Backing up all that stuff wirelessly is going to take a while and will not be fast, by any means.

My current setup (which sucks), is made up of my iMac acting as my main computer and entertainment center a 80GB Lacie external HDD, an AirPort Extreme, and my iBook.

The iMac has all of my media on it, and streams to my iBook. The most important content (Rolling Stones catalog, and the Beatles Catalog) in my iTunes library is backed up on the LaCie Drive. The iMac is wired to the AEBS, and the iBook is connected wirelessly to the network. I also have my XBOX 360 wired to the AEBS.

I have a DROBO on my christmas wish list, and if I get it, I'll pop 2 1TB drives in it, and split it up in to two partitions. One for TM, and the other for my media. I'll then use it to stream media to my XBOX 360, iBook, and iMac.

Question to those with a DROBO, do you recommend getting it with drives already in it, or buying them yourself?

Thanks! Another question, will I notice speed differences if I get 7200 or 10000 RPM HDD's? I'll be using FW800, with the DROBO. Will the FW800 cap the speed below what a 7200 or 10000 RPM drive can read and write?

Thanks!

Don

Like i said above, with a server you can move all that stuff off of your iMac and leave the task of housing the music to the server. You just have to point iTunes and the other programs to the correct spots. For drive i would get the standard 7200 RPM drives and buy them yourself.


If you have question about the setup i run for iTunes let me know.

 

[prostuff1]

OK thank you! As you can probably tell hard ware isn't my thing, I'm content with software though. Another question (sorry) I was looking on newegg, and saw 3.5" drives that were 5400-7200 RPM, does this just mean that they spin down to 5400 RPM when not in use?

Don

You were probably looking at the WD Green Power drives. The 5400-7200 tag just means they can run at either of those speeds. They come from the factory at one of those speeds (almost always 5400) and that is were they stay. The speed DOES NOT vary and will not change, ever.