Studio Display with Mac Pro 2013?

[joevt]

• Since a single Thunderbolt 2/DisplayPort 1.2 port will not output higher than 4K the real output resolution will be 4K.
• SwitchResX will let you create a different “looks like” resolution to macOS’s System Preferences. But it will still be output at 4K, because that’s what a single TB2 connection can do.

DisplayPort 1.2 can do width > 4K but your old AMD GPU cannot (it will produce an image but it won't look good). You can test this by creating a 5K 43Hz CVT-RB custom timing in SwitchResX.

But maybe you can try creating a custom timing of 4096x2304 which might be slightly better than 3840x2160? If it works, then set it as the default scaled resolution base and look at all the "Looks like" modes again.

• The only way to get 5K out of the trash can (except perhaps with an eGPU) is to connect two of the thunderbolt 2 connections to a display that accepts dual DisplayPort 1.2 inputs and recognises them with the DisplayPort tile functionality. I have only read of three such displays all of which are out of production and now quite old. I've not found any adapters that will do this either but my search has not been exhaustive!

The only adapter that could do this is a Thunderbolt 3 add-in card. You could put one in an external Thunderbolt enclosure and it might produce an image but there's no software to enable PCIe tunnelling to support the USB functionality.
For eGPU - you could try Blackmagic eGPU or Sonnet eGPU Breakaway Puck X5500/5700 XT but you need some software to enable eGPU on Thunderbolt 2 Mac (goto eGPU.io website).

 

[Amethyst1]

Connecting the Studio Display with an Apple Thunderbolt 2 cable and an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter works.

It may not provide as much info as with a newer AMD GPU, but… could you provide the output of
/System/Library/Extensions/AppleGraphicsControl.kext/Contents/MacOS/AGDCDiagnose -a > AGDCDiagnose_a.txt 2>&1
here?
Zip the file and attach it to a post.
I think we don't have AGDCDiagnose info for a Thunderbolt 2 connection from a 2013 Mac Pro yet...
Thanks in advance!

The only way to get 5K out of the trash can (except perhaps with an eGPU) is to connect two of the thunderbolt 2 connections to a display that accepts dual DisplayPort 1.2 inputs and recognises them with the DisplayPort tile functionality. I have only read of three such displays [...]

Right. The Dell UP2715K, HP Z27q and Philips' 5K screen (which I've never seen) are wired up like that, and so are the two models of the LG UltraFine 5K, but the latter require the two signals to be encapsulated in a Thunderbolt 3 stream.

I tried to find one of the Dell UP2715K [...]

I was able to find one second-hand for about $500, which was a steal given how many pixels it offers. Unfortunately, mine has developed an issue where air looks to have gotten between the actual panel and the glass layer in front of it.

Also, really, there weren't very many computers that could actually use them back then. 5K seems to have never really caught on outside the Mac world. [...]

Pretty much any GPU with two DisplayPort 1.2 outputs capable of 4K60 can run these dual-link SST 5K displays. I ran my Dell UP2715K of the least powerful NVIDIA card that could do it.
The main reason 5K screens have never become a thing AFAICS is that there's virtually no demand from them outside of the small Mac user base.

 

[Killerbob]

I am now running 2 LG 32UL950-W monitors off my 2013 Mac Pro, and they look great with 4K on 32"...

Now I can change that to be even higher, like 5120x2880 settings on the Mac Pro side (using SwitchResX), but that looks bad - I can read it, but the scaling is off.

 

[Amethyst1]

Now I can change that to be even higher, like 5120x2880 settings on the Mac Pro side (using SwitchResX), but that looks bad - I can read it, but the scaling is off.

That just downscales a 5120×2880 framebuffer to 3840×2160. This is independent of the AMD GPU's inability to actually output a 5120×2880 signal to a monitor.

 

[joevt]

Now I can change that to be even higher, like 5120x2880 settings on the Mac Pro side (using SwitchResX), but that looks bad - I can read it, but the scaling is off.

I'm not sure what you mean by "off". Your 4K display is 16:9. 5120x2880 is also 16:9. So the scaling is proportional vertically and horizontally at least. Besides, you are using 5120x2880 whenever you use the "Looks like 2560x1440" HiDPI mode. in either case, it's scaling 5K framebuffer to 4K output to display.

 

[SpotOnT]

• Connecting the Studio Display with an Apple Thunderbolt 2 cable and an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter works.
• Since a single Thunderbolt 2/DisplayPort 1.2 port will not output higher than 4K the real output resolution will be 4K.
• “Looks like" 2560 x 1440 looks better in 4K than it does on the old Thunderbolt Display (2.5K) but not as good as it looked on 5K (27" iMac) I was worried about potential fugliness others have raised but it wasn’t an issue.
• SwitchResX will let you create a different “looks like” resolution to macOS’s System Preferences. But it will still be output at 4K, because that’s what a single TB2 connection can do.
• The only way to get 5K out of the trash can (except perhaps with an eGPU) is to connect two of the thunderbolt 2 connections to a display that accepts dual DisplayPort 1.2 inputs and recognises them with the DisplayPort tile functionality. I have only read of three such displays all of which are out of production and now quite old. I've not found any adapters that will do this either but my search has not been exhaustive!
• The camera is flaky so far…When it works I see the washed out colours reviewers have reported. It works with MS Teams and Photo Booth. When I try FaceTime, Skype or Zoom the green light activates but no picture comes through. I have no idea if this is an adapter issue or a video API issue or what. I think I'll have to wait until my Mac Studio comes to see for sure when I have no adapters in the way.
• The speakers are great but I've also had a bit of flakiness. They weren't working this morning but power cycling the display and restarting the MP has fixed it. I've tried System Preferences (setting the alert tone), Apple Music and Deezer and get audio from all of them.

Thank you for sharing your experience with this combination of hardware. It is an idea I am still playing around with in my mind (get the Studio Display now, and the Mac Studio later).

One quick question. Any chance you could try booting your 2013 Mac Pro with macOS Mavericks? Just curious how the Studio display handles such an old OS. Specifically wondering if functions like the screen brightness can be adjusted from the Mac Pro in Mavericks.

 

[iPhoneBlog]

Hi everyone.

I have a trash can MP and am waiting for a Mac studio. The Studio Display has arrived much faster…here are my conclusions/opinions so far followed by a bit more discussion below. Remember, your experience may differ from mine!

• Connecting the Studio Display with an Apple Thunderbolt 2 cable and an Apple Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter works.
• Since a single Thunderbolt 2/DisplayPort 1.2 port will not output higher than 4K the real output resolution will be 4K.
• “Looks like" 2560 x 1440 looks better in 4K than it does on the old Thunderbolt Display (2.5K) but not as good as it looked on 5K (27" iMac) I was worried about potential fugliness others have raised but it wasn’t an issue.
• SwitchResX will let you create a different “looks like” resolution to macOS’s System Preferences. But it will still be output at 4K, because that’s what a single TB2 connection can do.
• The only way to get 5K out of the trash can (except perhaps with an eGPU) is to connect two of the thunderbolt 2 connections to a display that accepts dual DisplayPort 1.2 inputs and recognises them with the DisplayPort tile functionality. I have only read of three such displays all of which are out of production and now quite old. I've not found any adapters that will do this either but my search has not been exhaustive!
• The camera is flaky so far…When it works I see the washed out colours reviewers have reported. It works with MS Teams and Photo Booth. When I try FaceTime, Skype or Zoom the green light activates but no picture comes through. I have no idea if this is an adapter issue or a video API issue or what. I think I'll have to wait until my Mac Studio comes to see for sure when I have no adapters in the way.
• The speakers are great but I've also had a bit of flakiness. They weren't working this morning but power cycling the display and restarting the MP has fixed it. I've tried System Preferences (setting the alert tone), Apple Music and Deezer and get audio from all of them.

I bought my trash can two and a half years ago. I was swapping from a retina 27" iMac and my only concern was giving up too much in terms of display beauty and sharpness.

I initially bought an Apple Thunderbolt Display which is a 27" 2560 x 1440 (2.5K) monitor. It was seamless but I couldn't handle going back to non-retina!

I tried to find one of the Dell UP2715K dual DisplayPort displays because I wanted my Retina display back but couldn't find one. They are now quite old and it seems like they weren't the most popular display given their price at the time. Also, really, there weren't very many computers that could actually use them back then. 5K seems to have never really caught on outside the Mac world. Even now, if you go looking for screens for a PC many shops stop at 4K. Even for screens much larger than 27".

I bought an HP z27 4K screen which is quite a nice screen, sturdy base, non-plasticky design. macOS (then) gave me options to run it at various "looks like" resolutions including (sorry, imperfect memory) 1920 x 1080 (too big), 2560 x 1440 (matches iMac but I wanted a little more!), something that started with 3xxx which was too small and 3840 x 2160 (native resolution, way too small!).

"Looks like" 2560 x 1440 on the 4K screen was not fugly. It was much sharper than the Thunderbolt Display but noticeably not as sharp as the iMac had been. I was quite happy with it. Apparently the z27 was not a great screen for gaming due to refresh rates but I don't game much.

SwitchResX allowed me to use different "looks like" resolutions in between the ones that macOS gave me. I tried 2880 x 1620 and 2800 x 1575 and they were almost just right but in the end I went back to the 2560 x 1440 (Hmmm...did Apple get it right, or am I just getting older?)

I notice in Monterey that macOS gives me 2560 x 1440, 2880 x 1620 and 3200 x 1800 on the Studio Display which seems much more likely to please more people.

The MP used the Studio Display immediately through the Thunderbolt 3 to 2 adapter. I had a bit of weirdness after that when it seemed to stop sending video to it for a couple of restarts but it's fine now. I can't tell you what happened there. The MP is now 7-8 years old… In between I connected the Display to another computer to check it was working fine (partner's PC laptop which had TB3) and it was. I have it connected to the bottom left thunderbolt port on the MP (above the HDMI port) which is Thunderbolt bus 0, or in my head, the "first port".

The last thing to mention now that I have the Studio Display and until I get the Mac Studio is the 5K/4K/5K issue. With the HP display my MP was internally drawing the interface at 5K (retina for 2560 x 1440) then sampling it down to 4K to send to the 4K display. With the Studio Display my MP is internally drawing the interface at 5K, sampling it down to 4K to send to the display but the display is now resampling it to show on a 5K display. People may wonder if this creates any fugliness...it doesn't to my eye. I think it's just as nice as my HP was. But it's happening in there somewhere.

Cheers

Thanks for sharing. It worked right away for me too. Unfortunately I hit the update button and now I am stuck in Restore mode (loop).

I have to find a semi-modern Mac and see if this helps me out of it. Or are there other good ideas?

Update: Found a "modern" Mac and updated without problems.

 

[2mw2]

I just got my Studio display - everything working as expected with the TB2/3 adapter and an Apple TB2 cable

AGDCDiagnose shows

Window (Active) 3840 x 2160
Window (Scaled) 6400 x 3600

Got into the same situation as others have mentioned - don't update the firmware with the trash can mac pro. Used the TB cable that came with the Studio monitor and plugged it into my 12" macbook (TB) and managed to recover the monitor.

 

[SpotOnT]

I just got my Studio display - everything working as expected with the TB2/3 adapter and an Apple TB2 cable

AGDCDiagnose shows

Window (Active) 3840 x 2160
Window (Scaled) 6400 x 3600

Got into the same situation as others have mentioned - don't update the firmware with the trash can mac pro. Used the TB cable that came with the Studio monitor and plugged it into my 12" macbook (TB) and managed to recover the monitor.

Are you able to boot into old versions of Mac OS with the Mac Pro and Studio Display?

I have seen lots of reports of success (albeit with downscaling) using the Studio Display with Big Sur and Monterey, but nothing about if it can be used with something as old as Mavericks, Sierra, etc.

 

[arw]

The only adapter that could do this is a Thunderbolt 3 add-in card. You could put one in an external Thunderbolt enclosure and it might produce an image but there's no software to enable PCIe tunnelling to support the USB functionality.
For eGPU - you could try Blackmagic eGPU or Sonnet eGPU Breakaway Puck X5500/5700 XT but you need some software to enable eGPU on Thunderbolt 2 Mac (goto eGPU.io website).

Would a stock GPU with USB-C in an eGFX enclosure also work for 5K@60 and the USB features?
Like a Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6800 XT SE which has 1x USB-C with DisplayPort 1.4a.
Run in a Sonnet Breakaway Box and a properly configured Mac Pro with Kryptonite.

 

[joevt]

Would a stock GPU with USB-C in an eGFX enclosure also work for 5K@60 and the USB features?
Like a Sapphire Nitro+ Radeon RX 6800 XT SE which has 1x USB-C with DisplayPort 1.4a.
Run in a Sonnet Breakaway Box and a properly configured Mac Pro with Kryptonite.

I think so. I know the USB-C port of a W5700 works. I forget if people reported success with USB devices for the USB-C port of 6000 series GPUs. You can probably look for a post that mentions that.

 

[doccho]

Club 3D | HDMI to USB Type-C 4K60Hz Active Adapter M/F

The Club 3D CAC-1333 is a HDMI™ to USB-C Adapter which allows you to transmit signal from HDMI™ source (Laptop, tablet, PC etc.) to USB-C display devices(TV, monitor, projector, etc.) through a Type-C M/M Cable. This adapter is Uni-Directional it only works from an HDMI™ Source device to an USB...

club-3d.com

I purchased this adapter to connect Nintendo Switch to ASD, and found out that it also works in connecting Mac Pro 6,1 to ASD.

 

[arw]

Club 3D | HDMI to USB Type-C 4K60Hz Active Adapter M/F

The Club 3D CAC-1333 is a HDMI™ to USB-C Adapter which allows you to transmit signal from HDMI™ source (Laptop, tablet, PC etc.) to USB-C display devices(TV, monitor, projector, etc.) through a Type-C M/M Cable. This adapter is Uni-Directional it only works from an HDMI™ Source device to an USB...

club-3d.com

I purchased this adapter to connect Nintendo Switch to ASD, and found out that it also works in connecting Mac Pro 6,1 to ASD.

Well, it works… but at 4K @ 30Hz maximum (the Mac Pros HDMI port is 1.4).

 

[doccho]

Well, it works… but at 4K @ 30Hz maximum (the Mac Pros HDMI port is 1.4).

True. I wanted to remind of the cable that enables HDMI to USB-C/TB since most cables are USBC to HDMI out in the market.

I purchased a higher-tier base model ($3,999) from eBay last Friday, and I am so happy.
I am now browsing which small monitor I can attach to the Mac Pro since my primary machine is ASD+M2 Mac mini. This Mac Pro is a remote server I can access from my work thru Chrome Remote Desktop. So, whenever, I need Mac-oriented works, I can do it thru this setup. I have been using iPad Pro so far, but Mac does better in most jobs.

 

[IsaacFOK]

Hi all, new here.

Just wanted to add some MP6.1 LG 5K screenshots. What I dont get, why I am seeing the exact same image quality with the LG 5k connected to the MP6.1 as I am with a 2019 15" i9 MBP with TB3 at the same default resolution of 2560 x 1440 as the MP6.1. Its not my eyes, before someone chimes in with that.

Why is everyone saying the quality is not as good from the MP6.1 over TB2>TB3 when it's impossible to tell apart.

Screenshots from the MP6.1

 

[Amethyst1]

Hi all, new here.

Welcome.

Just wanted to add some MP6.1 LG 5K screenshots.

Your screenshots prove that you are not getting 5120×2880 resolution on the monitor.

The "Active" row (on your first screenshot) confirms the monitor is being driven at 3840×2160 ("4K"). The "Scale to" row only means macOS is set to a 2560×1440 HiDPI mode, using a 5120×2880 framebuffer. But the dimensions of the framebuffer have nothing to do with the fact the monitor is being driven at 3840×2160. The "Scaled resolution base" (on your third screenshot) being set to 3840×2160 also confirms that is the case.

If you hook up the monitor to the 2019 MBP and post the same SwitchResX screenshots from that, I'll point out the difference.

Why is everyone saying the quality is not as good from the MP6.1 over TB2>TB3 when it's impossible to tell apart.

I have seen the difference between a 5K monitor being driven at "4K" using 2560×1440 HiDPI and it being driven at native 5K using 2560×1440 HiDPI myself. The difference is very obvious to me. Definitely not impossible to tell apart.

 

[IsaacFOK]

What is the difference that we should be looking at exactly? Do you have any photos of this?

I will try and get some and post them up.

 

[Amethyst1]

What is the difference that we should be looking at exactly? Do you have any photos of this?

On your first screenshot, the "Active" row needs to state 5120 pixels by 2880 lines on the 2019 MBP.
On your third screenshot, "Scaled resolution base" needs to be set to 5120×2880 on the 2019 MBP.

 

[IsaacFOK]

I should have been more specific, what's the difference should we concerned with seeing with our eyes on the display. Not the low level system activities.

 

[Amethyst1]

I should have been more specific, what's the difference should we concerned with seeing with our eyes on the display.

Set the display to 2560×1440 HiDPI on both Macs. Then, text should be clearer and sharper when using the 2019 MBP.

 

[IsaacFOK]

Understood, I will grab another 5k Monitor and attempt to take a photo of both at the same time.

 

[IsaacFOK]

So there must be something wrong with my MBP as SwitchRes X is basically showing the same numbers as MP6.1

I cannot see any difference on between the actual screens side by side.

MBP

MP6.1

Side by side......

So what's going on? MBP is connected using Apples TB4 braided cable.

 

[Amethyst1]

So there must be something wrong with my MBP as SwitchRes X is basically showing the same numbers as MP6.1

Yes, that’s not right. It looks like you're only getting a single DisplayPort 1.2 connection to the monitor (which tops out at 4096×2304@60Hz in case of the LG UltraFine 5K), not two connections which are necessary for 5120×2880@60Hz. System Profiler reports "Current Link Width: 0x1".

So what's going on? MBP is connected using Apples TB4 braided cable.

Try a different Thunderbolt cable, such as the Thunderbolt 3 cable that came with the monitor.

 

[IsaacFOK]

Ill try and find a cable.

My point stands, the image quality is the same between the two.

 

[Amethyst1]

Here's something you can try until you find a cable: set your 15" MBP's internal 2880×1800 LCD to the pixel-perfect "looks like 1440×900" setting (it's important to use this exact setting). Do you find that text looks sharper and clearer on the MBP's screen than on the UltraFine then?

If you do, that's the kind of sharpness and clarity you can expect from the UltraFine at 2560×1440 HiDPI... once it runs at full 5120×2880.