Other Subsidy prices or just $0 down? Apple and carriers would do BETTER!

[x-evil-x]

It doesn't change the overall price. Carrier plans were more expensive during subsidies; you were paying for part of the subsidy in the plan. There are no free lunches. Sometimes you actually paid more than they subsidy you got up front.

Maybe someone with bad credit, so bad the carrier wont finance the phone as they dont run your credit, doesnt need to buy a $1,000 phone would be the better statement. They should stick with a $300 budget phone or used iphone and rebuild their credit first.

I was never paying a premium for my single line grandfathered plan. It never changed from 80$ a month.

 

[calderone]

But you do own it. It was paid in full via a 0% interest loan. If you stop paying that loan, they send it to collections, but they don't repo the phone. It's your property from day one. When you buy a car with a loan, or a house with a mortgage, do you consider yourself a renter then, too?

"Own" could use some unpacking here.

You don't truly own the car or the home, the lender has a lien meaning they effectively own it until you pay the lender. For these large assets, the lenders are able to pursue them more easily (repo, foreclosure).

For a phone, it just depends on the terms. You didn't pay it in full, the lender paid it and expects you to pay them back. It is up to the lender if they want to pursue the phone or the cash. Since it is difficult to pursue the phone, it is more likely it will go to collections.

Now, the question is do you "own" the phone? Sure, you maintain possession of it despite being taken to collections. But, if you want to clear that negative mark, selling the phone is the most obvious way to get the funds to pay it. Strictly speaking you own the phone, but if you look at the reality of the situation one could make the case that you truly don't or more accuratlely the true cost is greater since you decided not to pay.

 

[gurase]

I was never paying a premium for my single line grandfathered plan. It never changed from 80$ a month.

Behind the scenes, ~$20-30 of your monthly fee went toward your phone and the rest was for the plan. Ideally your plan would have been discounted $20-30 a month after your 2 year contract ended. But that wouldn’t have worked, because the plans were crafted based on a certain number of people NOT upgrading after their contract ended. Those people effectively subsidized those who did upgrade.

Also when grandfathered unlimited data existed, carriers did not expect people to use data the way they do now. People tended to use more voice minutes, which is why carriers loved charging ridiculous per minute overages. When they started using more data, those plans were no longer profitable. Now data is more expensive, but most plans have unlimited talk/text because usage has shifted to data.

 

[seinman]

"Own" could use some unpacking here.

You don't truly own the car or the home, the lender has a lien meaning they effectively own it until you pay the lender. For these large assets, the lenders are able to pursue them more easily (repo, foreclosure).

For a phone, it just depends on the terms. You didn't pay it in full, the lender paid it and expects you to pay them back. It is up to the lender if they want to pursue the phone or the cash. Since it is difficult to pursue the phone, it is more likely it will go to collections.

Now, the question is do you "own" the phone? Sure, you maintain possession of it despite being taken to collections. But, if you want to clear that negative mark, selling the phone is the most obvious way to get the funds to pay it. Strictly speaking you own the phone, but if you look at the reality of the situation one could make the case that you truly don't or more accuratlely the true cost is greater since you decided not to pay.

Sounds like a bunch of nitpicky crap just to be argumentative. Face it, you don’t call yourself a renter when you have a mortgage or auto loan. Same with cell phones. You’re not a renter, you’re an owner.

 

[x-evil-x]

Behind the scenes, ~$20-30 of your monthly fee went toward your phone and the rest was for the plan. Ideally your plan would have been discounted $20-30 a month after your 2 year contract ended. But that wouldn’t have worked, because the plans were crafted based on a certain number of people NOT upgrading after their contract ended. Those people effectively subsidized those who did upgrade.

Also when grandfathered unlimited data existed, carriers did not expect people to use data the way they do now. People tended to use more voice minutes, which is why carriers loved charging ridiculous per minute overages. When they started using more data, those plans were no longer profitable. Now data is more expensive, but most plans have unlimited talk/text because usage has shifted to data.

But my plan amount never changed when that two year subsidy was out of contract. It didn’t drop by 20-30$. I still don’t see where the hidden chargers where at for people with that plan.

 

[gurase]

But my plan amount never changed when that two year subsidy was out of contract. It didn’t drop by 20-30$. I still don’t see where the hidden chargers where at for people with that plan.

Exactly my point....

But that wouldn’t have worked, because the plans were crafted based on a certain number of people NOT upgrading after their contract ended. Those people effectively subsidized those who did upgrade.

It just wasn’t spelled out/itemized on your bill. Kind of like when tax is included in the price of something. Doesn’t mean you aren’t paying it.

 

[1144557]

But my plan amount never changed when that two year subsidy was out of contract. It didn’t drop by 20-30$. I still don’t see where the hidden chargers where at for people with that plan.

So maybe you're just getting double ripped off then? Paying in the old subsidy portion the carrier factored in for the phone into the plan price and then paying monthly for a phone.

Certainly a possibility.

 

[x-evil-x]

Still don’t see how I was paying on anything if my bill didn’t change after the two year contact was up.
I think the subsidy pricing worked best for people with single plans.

 

[1144557]

Still don’t see how I was paying on anything if my bill didn’t change after the two year contact was up.
I think the subsidy pricing worked best for people with single plans.

Ok say your bill was $80 a month. You bought a $799 full price iphone for $399 on contract. Where did you think the other $400 came from exactly?

The $400 was built into the plan pricing; thats why it was $80/month for 2 years and not $63.33. you were paying $16.67/month for 2 years extra in your plan to pay back the $400 the carrier "gave you" as subsidy. The carrier already paid the phone manufacturer the full phone price of $799 in this example.

Carriers didnt eat hundreds of dollars per customer.

So if you're still paying $80 it may really only be a $63.33 worth plan. But if the plan works for you because its grandfathered and the monthly price still is comparable then great.

For most it didn't work out that way as using lots of texts and data wasn't really a think even a few years ago; using 1gb/month was a "crazy" amount of data to use so those plans would make no sense today

 

[x-evil-x]

Ok say your bill was $80 a month. You bought a $799 full price iphone for $399 on contract. Where did you think the other $400 came from exactly?

The $400 was built into the plan pricing; thats why it was $80/month for 2 years and not $63.33. you were paying $16.67/month for 2 years extra in your plan to pay back the $400 the carrier "gave you" as subsidy. The carrier already paid the phone manufacturer the full phone price of $799 in this example.

Carriers didnt eat hundreds of dollars per customer.

So if you're still paying $80 it may really only be a $63.33 worth plan. But if the plan works for you because its grandfathered and the monthly price still is comparable then great.

For most it didn't work out that way as using lots of texts and data wasn't really a think even a few years ago; using 1gb/month was a "crazy" amount of data to use so those plans would make no sense today

Not really though. The grandfathered unlimited data plan at 80$ was the cheapest single line deal out.
There was no 60$ plan without a phone on your contract. Still don’t see how there was added fees that never appeared after the two years.
If my bill without a phone was 80 and 100$ with a phone I’d notice but it never changed.
Subsidy deals with single line plans seemed the best. I have no idea how the pricing was with family plans.

 

[ftaok]

Still don’t see how I was paying on anything if my bill didn’t change after the two year contact was up.
I think the subsidy pricing worked best for people with single plans.

Once again, the are some folks who did not see their bills drop after the subsidy plans went away. You're proof that they exist. Folks like you have the unique trait of being a grandfathered unlimited data user with Verizon or AT&T. This was basically the only group of people who didn't see their plan prices drop after T-Mobile blew up the subsidy model ... note that some folks with single family plans and/or weird FAN discounts could also be in this group.

Most other folks have basically broken even after the subsidy model went away. Grandfathered Unlimited users have the distinct pleasure of being ripped off by Verizon/AT&T because the carriers wanted you off of those plans. They didn't drop your bill by $25/line on purpose. They wanted you to switch ... preferably to a shared data plan, but they wouldn't even mind if you dropped them entirely.

 

[x-evil-x]

Once again, the are some folks who did not see their bills drop after the subsidy plans went away. You're proof that they exist. Folks like you have the unique trait of being a grandfathered unlimited data user with Verizon or AT&T. This was basically the only group of people who didn't see their plan prices drop after T-Mobile blew up the subsidy model ... note that some folks with single family plans and/or weird FAN discounts could also be in this group.

Most other folks have basically broken even after the subsidy model went away. Grandfathered Unlimited users have the distinct pleasure of being ripped off by Verizon/AT&T because the carriers wanted you off of those plans. They didn't drop your bill by $25/line on purpose. They wanted you to switch ... preferably to a shared data plan, but they wouldn't even mind if you dropped them entirely.

I see. well it made sense for the grandfathered plan people then. Id use the money selling the phone after 2 years to pay for the new subsidy. It always seemed the best way to always have the newest phone without actually paying for it. Upgrading every year for people now they have to dish out 550$ for a phone over 12 months and never keep their phones.

 

[ftaok]

I see. well it made sense for the grandfathered plan people then. Id use the money selling the phone after 2 years to pay for the new subsidy. It always seemed the best way to always have the newest phone without actually paying for it. Upgrading every year for people now they have to dish out 550$ for a phone over 12 months and never keep their phones.

I've never had an unlimited plan, so I don't know the answer. What's so good about the grandfathered plans on AT&T and Verizon that prevents you from switching to the current unlimited plans? Is it cost or do you have a really good discount that doesn't apply to the new plans?

I know that the grandfathered plans don't have tethering. Do they still throttle you if you use "too much" data in the month? Perhaps the new unlimited plans are more expensive, then I could see you guys staying on the old plans.

 

[x-evil-x]

I've never had an unlimited plan, so I don't know the answer. What's so good about the grandfathered plans on AT&T and Verizon that prevents you from switching to the current unlimited plans? Is it cost or do you have a really good discount that doesn't apply to the new plans?

I know that the grandfathered plans don't have tethering. Do they still throttle you if you use "too much" data in the month? Perhaps the new unlimited plans are more expensive, then I could see you guys staying on the old plans.

well the way it is it now you cant use discounts with the new unlimited plans. but they've raised the prices on the grandfathered plan so much its a different of 5$ savings with my discount still. Not really worth it.

 

[brofkand]

I have good credit but I didn't always, and I empathize with people who can't afford the new phones. I can't afford them either.

Having good credit doesn't imply that you can afford something - just that you have the credit to make payments on it.

My cellular costs have dramatically decreased in the post-contract era, simply because I am using an iPhone SE that I bought outright for $159 on a prepaid carrier.

If you want the newest phone on a postpaid "non" contract service, your costs will absolutely be higher than they were in the iPhone 4 era.

Prepaid is an actually competitive market so costs are reasonable. With postpaid, everybody is in a contract paying for their phones so they don't switch carriers often - the carriers reward this forced loyalty with higher prices. I can switch my carrier right now at very little cost and no penalty (except for the rest of the month of my prepaid service - since I've already paid for it I doubt I'd get a refund).

Buy phones you can afford and switch to the best prepaid carrier for you.

 

[theshoehorn]

I think it comes down to a couple points in my opinion.

• 0% financing in the end allows you to get a phone with no extra costs
  • In my opinion, why wouldn't you choose 0% especially when you can afford it in full? that extra $1000 can sit in a bank and earn more, compared to spending all at once.
• Bad credit means they don't trust that you will make all the payments
  • It doesn't necessarily mean you can't afford something, just that you made mistakes in the past but not following through on your commitments.
• If you want an expensive phone but can't get approved for credit: save the money you'd pay monthly and then purchase it at full cost when you've saved enough.

 

[brofkand]

I think it comes down to a couple points in my opinion.

• 0% financing in the end allows you to get a phone with no extra costs
  • In my opinion, why wouldn't you choose 0% especially when you can afford it in full? that extra $1000 can sit in a bank and earn more, compared to spending all at once.
• Bad credit means they don't trust that you will make all the payments
  • It doesn't necessarily mean you can't afford something, just that you made mistakes in the past but not following through on your commitments.
• If you want an expensive phone but can't get approved for credit: save the money you'd pay monthly and then purchase it at full cost when you've saved enough.

With the rates on most interest-bearing accounts nowadays, I'd rather just pay in full and not have to worry about being in debt for a cell phone personally.

 

[ftaok]

I think it comes down to a couple points in my opinion.

• 0% financing in the end allows you to get a phone with no extra costs
  • In my opinion, why wouldn't you choose 0% especially when you can afford it in full? that extra $1000 can sit in a bank and earn more, compared to spending all at once.

On my large purchases, I use my credit card that provides and additional 2 years of extended warranty. If I were to take the 0% down option, I would not be covered past the included 1 year Apple warranty.

The amount of interest (and lack of liquidity) that I lose out on for a $1,000 purchase is neglible. I'd rather have the extra two years of warranty.

 

[gurase]

I have good credit but I didn't always, and I empathize with people who can't afford the new phones. I can't afford them either.

Having good credit doesn't imply that you can afford something - just that you have the credit to make payments on it.

My cellular costs have dramatically decreased in the post-contract era, simply because I am using an iPhone SE that I bought outright for $159 on a prepaid carrier.

If you want the newest phone on a postpaid "non" contract service, your costs will absolutely be higher than they were in the iPhone 4 era.

Prepaid is an actually competitive market so costs are reasonable. With postpaid, everybody is in a contract paying for their phones so they don't switch carriers often - the carriers reward this forced loyalty with higher prices. I can switch my carrier right now at very little cost and no penalty (except for the rest of the month of my prepaid service - since I've already paid for it I doubt I'd get a refund).

Buy phones you can afford and switch to the best prepaid carrier for you.

Exactly....on Verizon we were paying $140-145 a month for 2 lines - unlimited data at first, then 2GB per line after accepting subsidies which ditched unlimited - and the price was the same in or out of contract. Assume the subsidies were about $20 per month per line, then it was roughly $100 for the plan for 2 lines. Now on Cricket we’re sharing a plan with my parents and pay $50 a month for 2 lines, 5GB each. It would be $70 if we had 2 lines on our own plan. And the longer we go before upgrading phones, the more money we save.

 

[calderone]

Sounds like a bunch of nitpicky crap just to be argumentative. Face it, you don’t call yourself a renter when you have a mortgage or auto loan. Same with cell phones. You’re not a renter, you’re an owner.

Ahh. Everything is black and white. You nailed it. /s