Suggestions for a Wedding

[M-5]

If I do end up doing this wedding, I'll definitely not accept any money then. It certainly looks like the way to go.

I wouldn't categorize it as harsh, more like tough love.

I think everyone who has chimed in so far is just trying to help the OP understand the magnitude of the task they have taken on, and that it can go very wrong very quickly.

No one in this thread has been harsh, but I'm pretty sure that spinnerlys was referring to the OP in the thread he posted.

Thanks for the head's up though, the guy who I worked with to set up the site did not renew. Have just done it now though. The offer still stands to the OP though. And please, don't be so sarcastic next time.

And I really appreciate this. I'll look into your site when I can, because I still don't seem able to view it.

 

[Edge100]

Thanks for the head's up though, the guy who I worked with to set up the site did not renew. Have just done it now though. The offer still stands to the OP though. And please, don't be so sarcastic next time.

Sorry. Was having a snarky morning. I just re-read that and it was over the top.

 

[davegoody]

Getting off theme !

Sorry. Was having a snarky morning. I just re-read that and it was over the top.

Apology accepted . . . . I was really annoyed that the domain had expired, had only just done so, still awaiting re-activation of web space . . . . could scream at somebody at the moment. All I wanted to do was give a bit of help to the OP.

 

[davegoody]

If I do end up doing this wedding, I'll definitely not accept any money then. It certainly looks like the way to go.

And I really appreciate this. I'll look into your site when I can, because I still don't seem able to view it.

OP, My site should be back up again soon, thanks to the head's up from people letting me know my site was down, in the process of transferring the domain to myself as the guy who did the original site for me has disappeared off the face of the earth.

 

[chrono1081]

Oh! I've been in this situation many many many times. What I'm about to say has probably been mentioned but I didn't read the whole thread. Here is what I would say (also sorry if some of this is simplistic, I have no idea what your skill level is):

-Make sure up front they know that this is your first wedding, and you recommend hiring someone, and you can't guarantee awesome wedding photos. This will (hopefully) get any assumptions about superb quality out of their heads. It's really important that their expectations are realistic regarding the quality of the pictures.

-Give them a realistic turn around time for photo processing and don't give away any work until its processed. Ever....

-Shoot raw. Lots of times at weddings you run into mixed lighting and raw is by FAR the easiest way to processes it.

-Get the most out of this opportunity and use it as a learning experience. Splurge a bit if you can on some new gear and get comfortable with it.

-Get a lot of SD cards, you will need them.

-Make sure to have extra batteries.

-Get an external flash, learn it, and be comfortable with balancing flash and ambient light. This is a crucial skill for wedding photography.

-Plan the shots. Work with the bride on the shots she wants. Detail shots (brides dress, wedding invitations, shots of the music being played) are just as important for a lot of people as the people shots. Carry a little checklist with you and get 'em all. Despite what the bride says up front, she will always want more.

-Do some engagement shots this spring. This gives you a chance to work with the couple, take some pictures, etc.

-Practice low light shooting. Scope out the Church they are getting married in before hand and see if you can practice shooting in it. Make sure you know the rules for flash photography. Some preachers are very selfish and either A. Don't let pictures at all during the ceremony or B. Don't allow flash photography from the wedding photographer but don't seem to care about uncle bob in the front pew.

No flash during the ceremony is pretty common but like I said, be prepared because some selfish preachers won't let any pictures during the ceremony. The bride needs to be aware of this.

-Rent some fast primes. Something with reach like an 85mm or 135. 1.8 or 2 aperture. These will be VERY useful.

-Practice practice practice! Shoot plenty of portraits and detail shots. Your skills will drastically improve. Make sure to post them online for critique. Make sure you take a lot of low light shots. Most of your wedding will be in low light. Also make sure you can get nice bokeh in your shots. Believe it or not just a little bokeh is all that stands between a bland and an outstanding photo.

I could go on and on and muck you down with details of getting a second body, or how to bounce flash, etc (a demb flip-it is currently my favorite for bouncing flash but aside from that) I will leave you with those basics above.

Weddings are EXTREMELY stressful and the pressure is always on the photog to get great shots. No matter how good your shots are brides always want more.

Also be careful where you post that you arent charging for shots. Pro wedding photogs will ream you on forums for that (fredmiranda.com is an example).

I've shot many weddings but I do not do it professionally. Two of the ones I shot were for friends because the wedding photog cancelled a week, or in the last case 12 hours before the wedding and I was the only photographer friend of the couple. Its hard to say no to a bride who shows up at your apartment at 2am of her wedding day, tears streaming down her face cause her photog cancelled. Luckily I had the gear and was prepared. All other weddings I shot were assisting friends who needed an extra hand (or bit off more then they could chew )

In the end it is a great learning experience and who knows, you may end up loving it.

Anyway GOOD LUCK! Make sure you keep us posted

 

[M-5]

<snip>

That's a great list of tips and suggestions, chrono. I haven't received any other word from the mom or bride yet with more details, so hopefully they've found someone else, but it's still way too early to tell. This thread has some very useful information and important aspects about shooting a wedding that anyone should be aware of. I hope I get more information soon, and if I end up shooting it, maybe I'll even post some of my results 10 months down the road.

 

[chrono1081]

Just another thought....


If I had to pick ONE technique I would deem most important to learn for shooting weddings, it would be learning to properly bounce flash (and fill in with ambient).

Granted, a lot of people think ambient light is the best light but good luck EVER finding enough ambient light at a wedding. A Church, no matter what it looks like to a humans eye is DIM to a camera's "eye".

Just a quick run of things to keep in mind while learning flash:

-Direct flash is often harsh, use something like a demb flip-it to make a larger softer light source (please avoid the gary fong lightsphere, its a beginner trap)

-If you bounce your flash off of walls make sure the wall is white. You won't like the results otherwise

-Learn how to "drag the shutter". It basically means expose for the background and use fill flash to illuminate your subject.

If you can get those three down pat (there are many more trust me) you should be pretty good to go with getting some decently lit shots.

 

[M-5]

Just another thought....


If I had to pick ONE technique I would deem most important to learn for shooting weddings, it would be learning to properly bounce flash (and fill in with ambient). <snip>

I'm very much inept when it comes to flash, but compuwar recommended that I purchase an SB-600. Would you recommend the same flash?

 

[blockburner28]

please don't end up like these ladies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7RzcdDcMs&feature=player_embedded#

 

[M-5]

please don't end up like these ladies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7RzcdDcMs&feature=player_embedded#

Haha, that's hilarious. And how ironic; I was just browsing YouTube right now, and the videos that I was watching lead me to some Judge Judy clips, and that's what I've been watching for a while right now.

I'm surprised on how knowledgeable the judge is about photography.

 

[chrono1081]

I'm very much inept when it comes to flash, but compuwar recommended that I purchase an SB-600. Would you recommend the same flash?

I'm not too familiar with Nikon gear but I have a friend who has that flash and loves it.

A fast recycle time for a flash is important for even photography (and high capacity rechargable batteries!!!)

Just be prepared to be frustrated at first. Learning to use flash properly can be a bear when you get started with it.

One of the easiest ways to start is start by learning "fill flash". Basically go outside, have someone stand with their back to the sun so that they are back lit, expose for the background (which will make them black but thats ok) and then fire. Your flash will fill the dark subject in.

 

[iPhoneNYC]

Just some thoughts:
1. Have equipment that you could get through the day without flash. Your 35mm prime sounds good.
2. Have at least two camera bodies, one with a zoom.
3. Remember that a zoom that says 2.8 is for wide and it could be 5.6 zoomed in.
4. Have a flash on one body as it may be your only way through a dark place
If you can scout, do that. Meeting people in advance will give better access given. Also, sometimes people weirdly say you can't do something and you have to be a little pushy.
5. You'll should check your "friend" status at the door. Always think like you're the photographer. Pictures come first, yapping with friends or having drinkees has to be second.
6. You know your limitations, so have a check list in your head: exposure, white balance, shaky shots because of slow shutter. Whatever it is, go through your list in every set-up.
7. You have time to become familiar with a flash. I would suggest to keep it simple. Don't try on flashing a huge place, etc as you'll easily get tripped up.
8. Think about what to do with the photos once the event is over. I also try to move fast. Color correct the next day (I use Aperture, what do you have, etc.) and make selects. Think about sequence and telling a story.
9. Can these be posted quickly to their Facebook page or whatever?
10. Make a book quickly for the couple. It can take a very short time to make a book in iPhoto or similar - but select in advance the path to take. Otherwise you could be in a mental hole of research that thats weeks to get out of. Having a book or two delivered to bride/family the same week will earn major brownie points.
11. And the final Zen question: What is a photographer? Expand your vision. I personally would look beyond the world of good commercial photographers. Do you know the work Winogrand, Robert Frank, Cartier-Bresson, Helen Levitt, Diane Arbus, Joel Meyerowitz? Where do good photos come from? You get the point.
12. Good luck.

 

[blockburner28]

Haha, that's hilarious. And how ironic; I was just browsing YouTube right now, and the videos that I was watching lead me to some Judge Judy clips, and that's what I've been watching for a while right now.

I'm surprised on how knowledgeable the judge is about photography.

lol yeah I ran into it and thought about your thread. Goodluck man I know you will do much better!

 

[chrono1081]

please don't end up like these ladies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7RzcdDcMs&feature=player_embedded#

Ouch! $2500!

Not to mention the damage done to the business.


I didn't think the pics were terrible. Wedding photography is a "you get what you pay for" type of business.

As far as the gear it was definitely sub-par but the pics are what I would expect from $1300 (the ones that I saw).

If you want a pro wedding photog you will pay pro prices. Generally $3k and up depending on where the market is and what options you want.

 

[M-5]

I'm not too familiar with Nikon gear but I have a friend who has that flash and loves it. <snip>

From what I've been reading in this thread, learning how to properly use flash seems very invaluable. I wasn't aware that if you were good enough you could properly create shots with flash that didn't look like 'flash' photos.

Just some thoughts:
<snip>

Thank you for the tips and that great list of photographers. What would be a reasonable time to get the photos back to the bride and groom?

lol yeah I ran into it and thought about your thread. Goodluck man I know you will do much better!

Thanks blockburner. Not sure if you ran into this similar clip, albeit from Judge Judy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CTyBE3rPGM&feature=related

Ouch! $2500!

Not to mention the damage done to the business.


I didn't think the pics were terrible. Wedding photography is a "you get what you pay for" type of business.

As far as the gear it was definitely sub-par but the pics are what I would expect from $1300 (the ones that I saw).

If you want a pro wedding photog you will pay pro prices. Generally $3k and up depending on where the market is and what options you want.

Yeah I agree, the photos outside weren't terrible, but the ones inside were very lacking. And those effects that they added to the photos (and that selective coloring as well) were pretty tacky. You could sense their frustration, especially when they were trying to explain the situation that not all pastors allow photographers to use flash inside their church, but that's what you get with judges who have the power to shut you up and allow themselves to talk all day if they wanted to. You could hear her whisper to her friend, "How dare him--embarrass us like this".

 

[st1ngo]

Recipe for disaster !
As a pro photographer for 25 years I shudder when I see posts like this
The very best thing you can do as a friend is offer to pay a professional

I see time and time again pics from people asking if I can retouch or "fix" their wedding pics

I dont want you to fail but there is a reason people employ professionals !

 

[M-5]

Recipe for disaster !
As a pro photographer for 25 years I shudder when I see posts like this
The very best thing you can do as a friend is offer to pay a professional

I see time and time again pics from people asking if I can retouch or "fix" their wedding pics

I dont want you to fail but there is a reason people employ professionals !

I am definitely not offering to pay for a friend's sister's wedding photographer. I only talk to that friend every so often, and I've never met the bride or groom. That's just not an option. And if they don't want to hire a professional wedding photographer, because they feel the event will be very small, and all they need are some nice family photos, then I'm better than no photographer at all.

 

[maddagascar]

please don't end up like these ladies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7RzcdDcMs&feature=player_embedded#

hahahahahaha. that was goood, he did know a lot about photography, and i think i would've been well more prepared than them. atleast have a few different lens and quality lenses..instead of the lens kit.

 

[macbrooke]

Recipe for disaster !
As a pro photographer for 25 years I shudder when I see posts like this
The very best thing you can do as a friend is offer to pay a professional

I see time and time again pics from people asking if I can retouch or "fix" their wedding pics

I dont want you to fail but there is a reason people employ professionals !

Oh really... and how do you expect people to ever get experience and make that jump to the other side? the OP has clearly stated what is going on, and he has clearly informed the family he is NOT a pro, heck he's not even charging! In fact he has a year to prepare!

I find it humorous when the "pro's" get so defensive, there is plenty of reason why people hire aspiring amateurs as well.

I think you have been given a lot of superb advice in this thread OP! generally this place is so helpful and positive

 

[macbrooke]

hahahahahaha. that was goood, he did know a lot about photography, and i think i would've been well more prepared than them. atleast have a few different lens and quality lenses..instead of the lens kit.

That was funny.. the outdoor pics were so so, but she paid almost nothing for it! and I found it odd the photographers did not even know their own equipment very well... the judge clearly knew more than them.

I seemed to notice that there is possibly other things going on aside from the wedding fiasco, notice how there was a comment about their children going to school together? perhaps a soccer mom fall out? LOL

 

[maddagascar]

That was funny.. the outdoor pics were so so, but she paid almost nothing for it! and I found it odd the photographers did not even know their own equipment very well... the judge clearly knew more than them.

I seemed to notice that there is possibly other things going on aside from the wedding fiasco, notice how there was a comment about their children going to school together? perhaps a soccer mom fall out? LOL

hahaaa, wow..he was even listing off the better cameras and how she used the cheapest lens. LOL!

 

[anubis]

please don't end up like these ladies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js7RzcdDcMs&feature=player_embedded#

Hmmm... I apologize ahead of time for contributing to the hijacking of this thread

That clip doesn't really sit well with me. Although the photographer didn't do herself any favors by not knowing the speed of her lenses and constantly yelling and interrupting, I think the heart of the matter is how do this bride's photos compare to the samples she was shown and hired the photographer based on. If the bride's photos are similar in style and quality to what she was shown prior, then you could understand the photographer's position. The problem I have is that the judge made the case based purely on whether the equipment was professional quality, and you'll find no shortage of people in this forum who will tell you that in the right hands, a mediocre camera (by today's standards) can yield amazing results.

Not picking sides one way or another. I'm just saying it would have been interesting to actually get the full story from both sides.

 

[macbrooke]

Hmmm... I apologize ahead of time for contributing to the hijacking of this thread

That clip doesn't really sit well with me. Although the photographer didn't do herself any favors by not knowing the speed of her lenses and constantly yelling and interrupting, I think the heart of the matter is how do this bride's photos compare to the samples she was shown and hired the photographer based on. If the bride's photos are similar in style and quality to what she was shown prior, then you could understand the photographer's position. The problem I have is that the judge made the case based purely on whether the equipment was professional quality, and you'll find no shortage of people in this forum who will tell you that in the right hands, a mediocre camera (by today's standards) can yield amazing results.

Not picking sides one way or another. I'm just saying it would have been interesting to actually get the full story from both sides.

For sure! and as I mentioned the whole thing had this feeling of people who knew each other socially then something went wrong and it all fell apart. How else would the photographer know the Brides son? and how else would they know the Brides father paid, did anyone else notice the photographer originally stated "we have done hundreds of weddings" and later towards the end her assistant piped up "your honor this is only our second wedding"

I really question if those shows are even real! LOL

 

[blockburner28]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CTyBE3rPGM&feature=related[/url]

lmao@ that video btw i'm sorry man I didn't think that video would hijack the thread. My mother-in-law ask me to shoot at her mother's surprise birthday party April 3rd lol so we kinda in the same boat. I just don't have enough time to prepare

 

[jampat]

For sure! and as I mentioned the whole thing had this feeling of people who knew each other socially then something went wrong and it all fell apart. How else would the photographer know the Brides son? and how else would they know the Brides father paid, did anyone else notice the photographer originally stated "we have done hundreds of weddings" and later towards the end her assistant piped up "your honor this is only our second wedding"

I really question if those shows are even real! LOL

Sorry to the OP for continuing the threadjack.

Those court shows have a pool of money (normally about 5K) that gets split between the parties. By awarding 2500, the photogs got to keep their original 1300, but did not get anything extra. The bride lost her original 1300, but got paid 5K to be on the show.

I can't believe those ladies have done multiple weddings like that. I have better (but not the best) equipment and I still have trouble in many wedding situations getting the shots I want.

Walmart images can be decent if you find the right walmart with a machine that prints decently. Most (all?) walmarts use a decent printing machine, but do nothing to calibrate it. If you can figure out what corrections you need to make to your images to cancel out the mess in their printer, the results are fine (but it can be a lot of work to get there).

To get things back on track, the OP should also make it clear to the bride (maybe they have already) that they won't be delivering prints, just the digital images. That eliminates one more area that can cause problems. If the OP wants to make prints, go ahead, but if they are just trying to get out as painlessly as possible, it is a good place to draw a line.