Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

chrono1081

macrumors G3
Jan 26, 2008
8,634
4,945
Isla Nublar
From what I've been reading in this thread, learning how to properly use flash seems very invaluable. I wasn't aware that if you were good enough you could properly create shots with flash that didn't look like 'flash' photos.

Absolutely. Remember, a flash is just a light, its how you modify the light to get what you want.

Think of shining a flashlight directly in someones face, thats how you would get the "flash" look when using a flash, point it directly at someones face.

Now think of taking that flashlight and pointing it at the ceiling, the bright hot spot is on the ceiling and softer light falls down and illuminates the surroundings.

Granted the above example would be hard to do with a flashlight since they are in no way near as powerful as a flash but hopefully you get the idea :)

Products like the Flip-it (my new personal favorite) give you a white card to sit on your flash that will bounce it and make it larger and give you softer light. These are worth looking into.
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
I'm not too familiar with Nikon gear but I have a friend who has that flash and loves it.

...

One of the easiest ways to start is start by learning "fill flash". Basically go outside, have someone stand with their back to the sun so that they are back lit, expose for the background (which will make them black but thats ok) and then fire. Your flash will fill the dark subject in.

The SB600 will do matrix balanced fill flash automatically. I tend to back the flash power off 1/3-1 stop off of the total auto setting to make the light less obvious, but it's pretty good for a beginner who's starting off as it comes automatically.

Paul
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
Products like the Flip-it (my new personal favorite) give you a white card to sit on your flash that will bounce it and make it larger and give you softer light. These are worth looking into.

It looks a bit ghetto, but I much prefer the "Better bounce card" made out of craft foam from pick-your-box-retailer (if you find good cement instead of using staples it looks better.) The nice thing is you can adjust how much "cup" it has, so you can control the angle of disbursement in ways that I don't see on commercial products and it's cheap to make 3 or 4.

Paul
 

Clix Pix

macrumors Core
I own a Nikon D5000, a 35mm 1.8, an 8 GB SD card, and no flashes. I'll definitely need to purchase extra SD cards, but how many? I'd look into flashes, but I have no experience operating them. As for the lenses, I'll probably need to rent some, but which ones should I look into for this small wedding? I like the 35mm, but it's really only best suited for very close portraits, and I'd like to capture more of the body (the dress included) while still having a nice out of focus background. Would I be able to achieve this with an 85mm 1.8? I'm considering this lens because of its price, but perhaps I could attempt to rent a 135mm f/2. I'm leaning towards purchasing prime lenses. Thoughts? And I apologize for the long post.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the event is on January 1, 2011. Yes, 1/1/11, tehe.


Since you are going to be using a D5000, be aware of the limitations when it comes to lenses. That is, you'll need to be sure that any lens you rent is an AF-S lens. I don't believe the 135mm f/2 is, I think it's AF only. Yes, you will need some sort of telephoto length and you'll also want a wide-angle in order to capture the full wedding party for the "formals."

Good luck!
 

iPhoneNYC

macrumors 6502a
Nov 25, 2007
549
0
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhoneNYC
Just some thoughts:
<snip>
Thank you for the tips and that great list of photographers. What would be a reasonable time to get the photos back to the bride and groom?


I'm always a big proponent of speed. Can you edit your photos in 48 hours? Then let's say you have between 50 - 100 to color correct. Do this the next day. If you've done your research they can go straight to a website, say a Facebook page. There's no technical hangup there because you've figured out how to do this in advance. That's within three or four days of the wedding. Then you lay out a book - you've pre-selected the place (say, Apple) and pre-selected the look (large book, formal theme, black cover; for instance) and you spend the next afternoon doing a lay-out and send it off. It will be back within the week (it's probably worth five bucks more for priority shipping.) The cost of the book is your wedding present. It's been less than two weeks and your signed, sealed and delivered. Everyone is impressed.

Now, on the other hand, people can not like this photo or that. Can't make a selection. Have no idea how to upload a photo, etc. You blink and nothing has been done for three months. You have good excuses, life goes on. You deliver the same exact stuff as above but it's maybe six- eight months later.Your friends say thanks but think you are a loser.

Some thoughts about flash:

1. First, you've scouted the church and taken test photos and you're confident that you don't need flash - great info. But be sure to take photos so you know they is enough light for non-blurry photos.
2. Flash is easy if you know what you're doing and have a set-up you're used too. So give yourself assignments in the next months.
3. Bounce flash is great but can give you bright tops of heads and faces in shadow. That's why people use those white cards.
4. The suggested flip works great. So does a white 3 x 5 taped to the flash. What you what to do is both bounce and send some additional light straight forward.
5. You can also get a flash unit with two flashed - a big head to bounce and a small front fill.
6. Or you can get a bounce flash that fires when you click or has a slave detector and use your camera flash to fill.
7. Keep in mind flashes are daylight balanced so you can fill outside. However, if you church has lovely candle lit oranagy glow your flash will mess with this. Remember I discussed a scout?
8. With group photos you're probably best doing them outside or uses the big flash direct.
9. When I do this type of thing I use a bracket under the camera and a twin flash off to the side. Carry extra batteries. Keep all the equipment you need on you - don't have that one extra whatever in the car.
10. A 2.0 prime will mean you can flash much less. Be nimble and quick. Also, by the way, remember there are a bunch of easy photos that will help get you thru a lay-out: wine glasses held by the waiter, close-up of the cake, an exterior of the church, backstage in the kitchen. The bride putting her dress on is fun, groom hanging out before. Be creative.
11. And the closing zen thought: your job is to take pictures, say take pictures. Don't let anyone or yourself self edit "I shouldn't take this photo" or this day you're existence is to take pictures.
 

MacNoobie

macrumors 6502a
Mar 15, 2005
545
0
Colorado
After shooting a bunch of weddings one summer I'd like to point out:

http://tzzdc.deviantart.com/journal/26495301/

This is my personal take on shooting weddings, observations and limited gear selection but basically GLASS and BACKUP's are going to dominate your lineup. Having a backup for everything from cards to bodies basically is where you're going to spend the money and especially if you're in it for the long haul.
 

jampat

macrumors 6502a
Mar 17, 2008
682
0
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPhoneNYC
Just some thoughts:
<snip>
If you've done your research they can go straight to a website, say a Facebook page.

Facebook is the devil. It will take decent pictures and make them look like crap. It ruins all color correction. I'm not saying the concept is bad, just saying don't use facebook to do it.
 

M-5

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 4, 2008
1,107
102
Since you are going to be using a D5000, be aware of the limitations when it comes to lenses. That is, you'll need to be sure that any lens you rent is an AF-S lens. I don't believe the 135mm f/2 is, I think it's AF only. Yes, you will need some sort of telephoto length and you'll also want a wide-angle in order to capture the full wedding party for the "formals."

Good luck!

That's a great point about the focus motor that I almost forgot about.
 

st1ngo

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2008
90
0
Oh really... and how do you expect people to ever get experience and make that jump to the other side? the OP has clearly stated what is going on, and he has clearly informed the family he is NOT a pro, heck he's not even charging! In fact he has a year to prepare!

I find it humorous when the "pro's" get so defensive, there is plenty of reason why people hire aspiring amateurs as well.

I think you have been given a lot of superb advice in this thread OP! generally this place is so helpful and positive :D
Yep all you need is a bit of advice on a web site and youre all set to go
People gain experience by assisting qualified and experienced professionals
Not by making a mess of someones wedding
Please do not under estimate my profession
Would you like a plumber turning up to fix your leak with no experience ?
 

Pikemann Urge

macrumors 6502
Jan 3, 2007
276
0
melbourne.au
Yep all you need is a bit of advice on a web site and youre all set to go
This is just a caricature. You just proved macbrooke's point about being defensive.

People gain experience by assisting qualified and experienced professionals
No disagreements here.

Not by making a mess of someones wedding
A presumption.

Please do not under estimate my profession
And do not underestimate a client's willingness to take risks with non-pros. Besides, nobody who has any love for the craft ever thinks that it's easy.

Would you like a plumber turning up to fix your leak with no experience ?
Why not? If it isn't critical and I knew the person I'd be happy to let them have a go.

So. Do you have any further objections?
 

st1ngo

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2008
90
0
This is just a caricature. You just proved macbrooke's point about being defensive.


No disagreements here.


A presumption.


And do not underestimate a client's willingness to take risks with non-pros. Besides, nobody who has any love for the craft ever thinks that it's easy.


Why not? If it isn't critical and I knew the person I'd be happy to let them have a go.

So. Do you have any further objections?

Just gotta love the troll
If you knew what you were talking about it your points may be valid

Ive just looked at your flicker pics and wow you are so not qualified to get into a discussion about professional photography
 

MattSepeta

macrumors 65816
Jul 9, 2009
1,255
0
375th St. Y
Just gotta love the troll
If you knew what you were talking about it your points may be valid

Ive just looked at your flicker pics and wow you are so not qualified to get into a discussion about professional photography

WOW. Go shove it man. Could you be any more conceited?

Their flickr pictures are better than yours, which are no where to be found.
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA

JeepGuy

macrumors 6502
Sep 24, 2008
332
110
Barrie
There is lots of good technical advice here, I would like to add that if at all possible you should have a helper, even if it's just to help wrangle up people for group shots. I use to do lots of weddings ( I did it full time for 10 years back in the film days), and always had my wife as the helper/wrangler it made for a much better experience, and a lot less stressful.
 

CrackedButter

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2003
3,221
0
51st State of America
There is lots of good technical advice here, I would like to add that if at all possible you should have a helper, even if it's just to help wrangle up people for group shots. I use to do lots of weddings ( I did it full time for 10 years back in the film days), and always had my wife as the helper/wrangler it made for a much better experience, and a lot less stressful.

In addition to your addition, I would say that if you don't have a helper, convince those getting married that you could use their Best Man or Master or Ceremony. More than likely, they will know who everybody is.
 

Sdashiki

macrumors 68040
Aug 11, 2005
3,529
11
Behind the lens
Just so we're clear, are you questioning me having viewed the website?

Just so we're clear...your point was pointless in this topic because you only mentioned it in passing and not actually directing it towards Wedding photography which is what the OP was asking about.

Im not saying anything about YOU personally. I was merely trying to keep it on topic that what works for you, wont probably work for others especially when it comes to wedding photos.

If you can do them in low light without flash, awesome. Id say most everyone else cant especially if they are asking for help here.
 

CrackedButter

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2003
3,221
0
51st State of America
Just so we're clear...your point was pointless in this topic because you only mentioned it in passing and not actually directing it towards Wedding photography which is what the OP was asking about.

Im not saying anything about YOU personally. I was merely trying to keep it on topic that what works for you, wont probably work for others especially when it comes to wedding photos.

If you can do them in low light without flash, awesome. Id say most everyone else cant especially if they are asking for help here.

Just so you're clear, I asked you that question because I linked to my site which features wedding photography AND in my original post i quoted rhomsy which was in reference to him mentioning how flash should be used at a wedding, i even made the effort to delete everything else in his post so I was being specific.

I got the impression you hadn't viewed my site from your first post, now it seems like you glazed over what I was quoting, sure I can see how you would need to join some dots, but I didn't feel I needed to make my post brain dead simple to understand either. I think I was pretty clear in my post and it wasn't going off topic.

I also know you weren't saying anything about me personally, you don't know me well enough to make those kinds of judgements. Like I said I just figured you didn't look at my site nor read my post since I said I use natural light, then provided a link to 3 wedding portfolios.

This isn't about me being awesome either, I'm simply countering a blunt statement from rhomsy who said you can't do a wedding without flash when that simply isn't true.
 

M-5

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jan 4, 2008
1,107
102
There's a wealth of information in this thread already. The wedding is still not until January, but I'm not quite sure I'm going to be involved with it anymore being that she hasn't come to me with any other information. I'm relieved, since I'm aware that it is a lot of work even if it is a really small wedding.

I was however asked to take some shots of her baby shower next month.
 

acearchie

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2006
3,264
104
I use natural light, then provided a link to 3 wedding portfolios.

Not really adding anything to this thread but I thought I would say that I really think you have taken some really nice images!

I agree that in some of the shots the flash would have ruined the feel and the atmosphere!

Can I ask how much you would charge for a full day wedding? And what camera do you shoot on to maximise the low light capabilities?
 

CrackedButter

macrumors 68040
Jan 15, 2003
3,221
0
51st State of America
Not really adding anything to this thread but I thought I would say that I really think you have taken some really nice images!

I agree that in some of the shots the flash would have ruined the feel and the atmosphere!

Can I ask how much you would charge for a full day wedding? And what camera do you shoot on to maximise the low light capabilities?

Your questioning will add something to this discussion. :)

For a 12-15 hour shoot, ideally, I'm aiming for £1400 with an assistant. I'm not there yet as I'm just starting, so I got a little less than that.

Gear wise, nothing special, a 1Dsmk2, 1Dmk2N, 24mm f1.4 L, Sigma 24-70 f2.8 HSM. I do carry a Rayflash and 580EXmk2 with me even though I don't use it often. I have a very steady hand and it helps that the gear is heavy, I can hand hold at 4th or 8th of a second but I try to never go above ISO 800 either, don't need to worry about it though with the 24mm f1.4. I use Aperture 3 btw.

Also each camera holds 2 memory cards and I write to both at the same time.

There is some noise in my images but the printing process does tend to smooth that out, nobody has ever complained about it though. Experience has told me that if the image is good enough, nobody cares. My documentary work is deliberately noisy and nobody questions it as much as one would think. If it is a problem LR3 will clear that up with its noise reduction tool. :)

----- ----- -----

iPhoneNYC mentioned a 48 hour turnaround with images, again that would be very great but most people go on honeymoon so you have that luxury of time to get the editing done, so no need to stress oneself out. But it isn't a numbers game as such "50-100 in 48 hours". I find it takes me 7-10 days to make a selection alone, an edit of what should go in the book, never mind actually modifying Raw files. All my clients get a book and whatever doesn't go in the book, goes on a disk. My last two weddings were on the 29th and the 30th of May and the clients haven't received anything yet. Keeping them up to date on my process (inviting them to see the proof for example) helps and there have been no complaints. But both clients should get their books next week all going well.

My two weddings were roughly 1500 images each, with another 1200 from my assistant for one of the weddings, he edited his own down and gave me 200 of his best. I roughly have about 200 images which go into a book! All the rest were provided on disk for my clients who are free to print whatever they want.

One book can be found here: http://www.blurb.com/books/1424868 and it holds around 250 images from the day, a very tight selection. It could have been tighter but I always show the clients a digital proof before sending to blurb and they said leave it as it is.
 

st1ngo

macrumors member
Oct 25, 2008
90
0
Heres a thought........
I shot a wedding on friday
Being good old UK summertime it peeded down ....

I carry a full lighting kit in my car to jobs and so was able to shoot the main groups at reception venue in the dry
Result ..... A dry bride, a happy bride and a lovely album

Thats why people employ experience.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.