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finally some sense is made, a quote from the above link.




'As for the Mac Pro, MICGadget is also claiming that the new MacPro will be come in a "rack-mountable" design in their new server version to help replace the Xserve. We've heard this before as well, but they are also claiming that Apple will be using a "unique CPU" developed for the Mac and not seen in the PC.
Sandy Bridge and Thunderbolt are coming to the new Mac Pro, and at the same time, an unique CPU will be developed for Mac. This unique CPU is not seen in PC.' .

What will this stop from happening. a repeat of my 2010 quad 2.8 to a hex 3.2 cpu upgrade . Apple has a history of killing off really good upgrade paths. My upgrade was easy peasy less then 30 minutes and for about 400usd net a quad became a hex. a 10000 geek bench moved to 15500. Apple did this with mac minis. from 2009 and 2010 they can not be upgraded. 2007 was doable.
 
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as usual, the people who said no upgrade untiul q4 or 2012 are continuing to be wrong as more information comes out! This is going to be awesome! New processors as some of us had hoped for.
New procs will be good, and the 2010 MP is looking very old now. AWESOME!!!!
 
Again, processor release timelines don't matter.

Apple refreshes products every year. Sometimes they use the same processor. Sometimes they use a different one. The processor argument is a red herring.

You are very wise, and of course correct. All smoke and mirrors, the idea that there aren;t processors. There are always processors to upgrade to. after a few monhs
 
The "custom" part worries me. We'll just have to wait and see. This would represent a strong change in the way the Pro's are sourced. AND would start a nifty new PC vs. Mac power struggle in who is fastest:) It was pointless previously as they both used the same exact parts.
 
The processor argument is a red herring.
So they can magically add processors that haven't been developed in the real world whenever they want? :confused:

Let's take a look at history shall we...
Apple switches to Intel in 2006...
  • 2006 model = brand new boards and new CPU's from Intel (51xx series)
  • 2007 model = same board in the 2006, but new CPU's are available (53xx series allowed Apple to release the 1st Octads)
  • 2008 model = new boards (due to different chipset) + new CPU's (54xx series)
  • 2009 model = new boards (different socket, chipset, ICH) + new CPU's (35xx and 55xx series for SP and DP systems respectively)
  • 2010 = new boards (added the latch mechanism to the DP daughter board as a means of running standard IHS equipped DP CPU's) + new CPU's (36xx and 56xx series, which allowed for Hex and Dodeca systems)
From one model to another since the Intel switch, there's been new CPU families introduced.

So how can you claim that the CPU changes in each new Intel model are a Red Herring?
Seriously.... I'd like to know what you guys are smoking. :eek: :D :p

If you notice, the newer systems are based on Intel's new Tick-Tock cycle (2009 on), which means a socket is supported for 2 years (new architecture followed by a die shrink, which allows for more cores = more efficient parts). 2006 - 2008 was before this was initiated, and the actual socket was LGA771 (but Intel still managed to release new CPU's on that socket).

This has been clearly stated by Intel, and there's plenty of sources on this. Granted, this has no bearing on the 2006 - 2008 models, but does from 2009 on, which means, that Intel is poised to introduce a new socket with Sandy Bridge Xeons (in fact, there's 3; LGA1155 for the entry level, LGA1355 for the mid-level, and LGA2011 for the high-end).

The Intel Roadmap alone is sufficient proof, but there's articles on this if you're interested (BTW, their source is the publicized Intel Roadmap).

Please note both the sources (links, which are a round-robin of sites linking each other as sources) and this bit from the front page...
MICGadget has not previously published many original rumors, so their reliability is unknown.....
That simple statement (bolded text) is critically important.

Yes, it's what some people want to hear, and it can fit the other rumors' timeframe for a new MP release.

But if you dig deeper, it all adds up to very unreliable sources (and in the case of Apple v. Intel relations, there's more to it than what's linked on MR's page, as it appears Apple screwed Intel over on PCB manufacturing <where the real money is> when they switched to Foxconn - it seems they used the contract dates to their advantage, and didn't re-sign with Intel). Somehow, I doubt Intel looks all that kindly at Apple over that situation (more per unit profit in PCB manufacturing than CPU's). Ye olde raw materials v. finished goods bit in terms of profit per unit.

To give you an idea, Foxconn reduced their bid on assembly due to the lucrative PCB manufacturing (assembly is typically a "looser", so companies need to make up for it in another area). You can research this, as the information is out there (it was even a Front Page article in MR IIRC).

as usual, the people who said no upgrade until q4 or 2012 are continuing to be wrong as more information comes out! This is going to be awesome! New processors as some of us had hoped for.
New procs will be good, and the 2010 MP is looking very old now. AWESOME!!!!
Again, you're not digging into the information (dig into the sources and pay attention), and latching onto opinion and calling it proof.

It would truly be in your best interest to learn the difference.

All smoke and mirrors, the idea that there aren;t processors. There are always processors to upgrade to. after a few monhs
The only smoke and mirrors are the sources you keep latching onto.

Check the sources. If you have a brain in your head, you'll see that there are canyons there, not just holes in them.
 
well, maybe the poster is AGAINST the updates, and has been from the get go.. There were those of us that said there would be an upgrade. We are pro-upgrade this summer.

So now that upgrades are obviously coming, it will be interesting to see how the revisionist history goes along

"No processors to upgrade to" - yeah right. Ever heard of the 3.2 hex???!!!

What a joke.
 
So they can magically add processors that haven't been developed in the real world whenever they want? :confused:

Again, Apple does not care about the processors. They are a computer company. They make computers. They upgrade those computers once a year. Always has been the rule, always will be.

This entire processor revision discussion is a tempest in a teapot. Apple operates on one year cycles. Even if there were no new processors this year (and I'm pretty sure that Intel has faster processors in the same series they've added), there are plenty of other components to add.

Again, Apple is a products company. They refresh each product (each major product) once a year.
 
Again, Apple does not care about the processors. They are a computer company. They make computers. They upgrade those computers once a year. Always has been the rule, always will be.

This entire processor revision discussion is a tempest in a teapot. Apple operates on one year cycles. Even if there were no new processors this year (and I'm pretty sure that Intel has faster processors in the same series they've added), there are plenty of other components to add.

Again, Apple is a products company. They refresh each product (each major product) once a year.

Gomac - you are so right. There are naysayers. And there already are processors! The 3.2 hex for example could replace the 2.8 quad!
New MPs are coming. The naysayers are less reliable than the source of the information!
 
Again, Apple does not care about the processors. They are a computer company. They make computers. They upgrade those computers once a year. Always has been the rule, always will be.

This entire processor revision discussion is a tempest in a teapot. Apple operates on one year cycles. Even if there were no new processors this year (and I'm pretty sure that Intel has faster processors in the same series they've added), there are plenty of other components to add.

Again, Apple is a products company. They refresh each product (each major product) once a year.

Yet they have only release Mac Pros with new processors and closely following Intel's schedule.

Gomac - you are so right. There are naysayers. And there already are processors! The 3.2 hex for example could replace the 2.8 quad!
New MPs are coming. The naysayers are less reliable than the source of the information!

It makes no sense to release a workstation with processors that would be 6 months old come August and would be set to be made obsolete within 2-3 months.

Apple do not need to release Mac Pros every year, nor are they in a rush to sell them. The majority of customers are not waiting for new models, they buy them as a tool when they are needed. Most customers also won't be rushing to buy them anyway as new OS + new system for production is a no-no in many fields. This is how the workstation market is. It isn't a highly marketable product, it doesn't sell in huge volume, and the competing hardware products are on the same schedule.

It makes absolute sense for Apple to follow Intel's workstation road maps if they are going to continue to have a professional system.
 
Again, Apple does not care about the processors. They are a computer company. They make computers. They upgrade those computers once a year. Always has been the rule, always will be.

This entire processor revision discussion is a tempest in a teapot. Apple operates on one year cycles. Even if there were no new processors this year (and I'm pretty sure that Intel has faster processors in the same series they've added), there are plenty of other components to add.

Again, Apple is a products company. They refresh each product (each major product) once a year.
They can't upgrade if there isn't suitable parts. And in such situations, they can't stick to a yearly upgrade cycle.

BTW, on the consumer side, there were logical reasons for sticking with existing CPU's; specifically, they didn't want to deal with integrated GPU's on the CPU die. They wanted better GPU's in their systems, so they went with non IGP based CPU's and added an embedded GPU chip to the board.

But the biggest issue you don't seem to grasp, is that the consumer side /= enterprise. This is what Umbongo is trying to convey as well. They're totally different markets with different relevant factors (what's used to base decisions on).

Let's take CPU efficiency into consideration. As enterprise customers run racks full of systems, rather than just one here and there, it has a direct relation to costs, such as the physical building size (smaller building = cheaper to build or rent), HVAC system needed to keep those racks cool (cost of the unit, installation, and maintenance), and the electricity all of it uses (you've never seen a high electricity bill until you've seen one for a data center full of rack mounted systems and storage - EXPENSIVE vs. a bill for a house or apartment; I'm talking about thousands of dollars per month here).

So they sweat those sorts of details vs. a home user (cheaper operations costs can translate into higher profits).

BTW, the reason Intel caters to the enterprise market like this, is because that's where most of their profit margins come from. So their requests are a big deal to Intel and other companies that sell enterprise grade equipment (storage, networking, whatever).
 
They can't upgrade if there isn't suitable parts. And in such situations, they can't stick to a yearly upgrade cycle.

No, again, Apple always upgrades yearly, always.

Even if there were no CPUs, there are plenty of other parts. GPU, Thunderbolt, case design, etc. Even faster clocked processors of the same series.

CPU release cycles do not matter. Apple always upgrades yearly. Keeps the products fresh. Keeps the products selling.

Heck, the iPhone 3G didn't even feature a new processor or GPU. It was the same device, with a new case, 3G antenna, and GPS. Not at all a radical re-working. Just a refinement.
 
No, again, Apple always upgrades yearly, always.

Even if there were no CPUs, there are plenty of other parts. GPU, Thunderbolt, case design, etc. Even faster clocked processors of the same series.

CPU release cycles do not matter. Apple always upgrades yearly. Keeps the products fresh. Keeps the products selling.

Heck, the iPhone 3G didn't even feature a new processor or GPU. It was the same device, with a new case, 3G antenna, and GPS. Not at all a radical re-working. Just a refinement.
What you're claiming is fine and dandy for consumer products, but you don't seem to understand the differences between consumer and enterprise systems (Xeon = enterprise). Totally different set of determining factors - from performance criteria to marketing and everything in between.

Enterprise parts are more complicated, which takes more time to develop and test (not just make sure the bugs are worked out, but more time is spent testing areas such as reliability as they need to be capable of 24/7 operation @ 100% load for 5 years). And this is all before system vendors ever get their hands on RTM versions. Then system vendors have to verify they'll work in their boards that are rolling off of the assembly line as they're supposed to (system validation and QC testing).

They don't put as much effort into consumer systems (less complicated + less validation = shorter development cycle).

Simply put, it's not the same (you're comparing Apple's to Oranges). So don't confuse consumer development cycles with that of enterprise systems.
 
Although I have taken Intel's Xeon roadmap for granted as the de facto indicator for new MacPros, I am thinking that it may well be different this time.

Even when you disregard the bespoke CPU rumors, it would make no sense for Apple to wait for the SandyBridge Xeons (unless they get them early).

Their entire product line has been updated or is about to be updated (MBA/MM) in anticipation of Lion/iCloud/MacAppStore, but they are gonna let their flagship machine just sit and get long in the tooth because of some lousy CPU's?

From a business POV, it makes no sense.

A case redesign with ThB, new GPU and a CPU speed bump is enough of a change to tout it as all-new.

I'm not saying they will, I'm just saying it makes sense. New CPU's or not.
 
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While I would tend to side with N-frog in these arguments I am thinking that apple has a T-bolt/iCloud/Lion concept and has cut a deal for a unique cpu for the pro. So While My guess was Oct-Dec for the last few months of these threads An order date in Aug with Sept delivery looks more likely. If it happens like that it will be interesting to see how good these machines are.

Rack mount only for a mac pro? Al la server?
 
Hardly. The Mac Pro is huge and has more horsepower than I will ever need. What I want to be able to do is open my computer case easily without having to resort to using items more likely to be found in an autobody shop than in a home toolbox. Replace a drive easily if it goes bad, Have two internal hard drives (main and backup) and an optical drive that I still use.

Lack of a Mini Mac Pro or some sort of headless Mac between the Mini and the Mac Pro is causing me to pause and try to decide on leaving Apple.

You can claim that the product lines are simple and defined but the product lines so not meet my needs.

The product lines meet my needs, but not my desires by a long shot.

I agree I want to be able to do those things. I really want to be able to add an SSD to my iMac that sits along side my large HD but of course I can't reasonably. With Thunderbolt maybe, but it isn't elegant.
 
The product lines meet my needs, but not my desires by a long shot.

I agree I want to be able to do those things. I really want to be able to add an SSD to my iMac that sits along side my large HD but of course I can't reasonably. With Thunderbolt maybe, but it isn't elegant.

Well iMacs are an aside. I have always thought that the hdd/ssd access to them borders on a criminal act of theft. A simple 4 screw panel in the back allowing just ssd/hdd access would really help the iMac user.
 
No, again, Apple always upgrades yearly, always.

What you're claiming is fine and dandy for consumer products, but you don't seem to understand the differences between consumer and enterprise systems (Xeon = enterprise). Totally different set of determining factors - from performance criteria to marketing and everything in between.

Honestly I don't know why you keep responding to someone who is clearly just saying the same thing over and over to get your riled up. ;) He just wants to be right. (And very well may be given today's rumor)
 
well, maybe the poster is AGAINST the updates, and has been from the get go.. There were those of us that said there would be an upgrade. We are pro-upgrade this summer.

So now that upgrades are obviously coming, it will be interesting to see how the revisionist history goes along

"No processors to upgrade to" - yeah right. Ever heard of the 3.2 hex???!!!

What a joke.

LOL.

I'm going to be buying the Sandy Bridge Mac Pro, and hence I want to get my hands on it. So hardly against the update, why the hell did you think that would be a clever thing to say!? :confused:

Mac Pro 2009 - Mac Pro 2010 - Possible MP2011

Single CPU
1. W3520 2.66Ghz Quad-> W3530 2.8GHz Quad-> W3540 2.93Ghz Quad
2. W3540 2.93Ghz Quad-> W3565 3.2GHz Quad-> W3580 3.33Ghz Quad or W3670 3.2Ghz Hex
3. W3580 3.33Ghz Quad-> W3680 3.33GHz Hex-> W3690 3.46Ghz Hex

Dual CPU
4. E5520 2.26Ghz Quad-> E5620 2.4GHz Quad-> E5630 2.53Ghz Quad
5. X5550 2.66Ghz Quad-> X5650 2.66GHz Hex-> X5670 2.93GHz Hex
6. X5570 2.93Ghz Quad-> X5670 2.93GHz Hex-> X5680 3.30Ghz Hex

Is it *really* worth a new generation for 133Mhz which barely does anything worthwhile? Really?




Again, Apple does not care about the processors. They are a computer company. They make computers. They upgrade those computers once a year. Always has been the rule, always will be.

This entire processor revision discussion is a tempest in a teapot. Apple operates on one year cycles. Even if there were no new processors this year (and I'm pretty sure that Intel has faster processors in the same series they've added), there are plenty of other components to add.

Again, Apple is a products company. They refresh each product (each major product) once a year.

Actually, the last two Mac Pro updates were 420 and 511 days apart. Thats *more* than a year, however you cut it...


IF Apple have managed to get a deal on the LGA2011 Xeon chips then yes July could very well be a new launch.

Please note: Not even the ENTHUSIASTS (they are still using 2600K which however you cut it is THE WRONG SOCKET), who get chips EARLY have access to samples of SB-E... *THIS IS AN IMPORTANT NOTE*

However IF they are launched there are a few possible scenarios:

Most Likely to Least Likely:
1. No new Mac Pro until Q4 2011 as this is the LGA2011 launch date.
2. New Mac Pro but shipping Q3 2011.
3. New Mac Pro but ship July.
4. New Mac Pro with TB, new GPUs and a simple speed bump (VERY unlikely).

Nano, I think we should leave it there.

Time will tell who is right.
 
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Honestly I don't know why you keep responding to someone who is clearly just saying the same thing over and over to get your riled up. ;) He just wants to be right. (And very well may be given today's rumor)

Cause people are talking in circles to get around that Apple updates every year. :p

What you're claiming is fine and dandy for consumer products, but you don't seem to understand the differences between consumer and enterprise systems (Xeon = enterprise). Totally different set of determining factors - from performance criteria to marketing and everything in between.

Rabble rabble rabble rabble.

The Mac Pro is also sold to consumers. I'd say pretty much every computer sold in the Apple Store is intended to be sold to consumers, and they all obey the upgrade once a year rule. XServe was never sold straight to consumers.

I'm pretty sure at some point Apple even directly said in a report they update once per year...

Regardless, I'm going to repeat it again. You can talk in circles all you want, but Apple updates once a year. Always.


Actually, the last two Mac Pro updates were 420 and 511 days apart. Thats *more* than a year, however you cut it...

And in what years? 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006...

Yes, they may not be 360 days apart, but they are once a year.
 
And in what years? 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, 2006...

Yes, they may not be 360 days apart, but they are once a year.

Yes, and we still have half this year yet to go.

As Nanofrog said earlier, the Mac Pro's have only EVER been released with NEW Code Name CPUs.

2006 - Woodcrest (Duals)
2007 - Clovertown (Quads)
2008 - Hapertown (Quads)
2009 - Bloomfield & Gainestown (Quads)
2010 - Gulftown (Hexs)
2011 - Sandy Bridge (No codename for the LGA2011 CPUs that I can find)

So lemme see, every update has a new codename CPU.

The next code name CPU is.... Sandy Bridge LGA2011!

What makes this year any special? :confused:
 
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I dont know what to get in the middle of this. But how about this. Supposedly apple is upgrading the mac pro servers. How about a new mac pro server machine with intel Beckton 8 cores?
 
Well iMacs are an aside. I have always thought that the hdd/ssd access to them borders on a criminal act of theft. A simple 4 screw panel in the back allowing just ssd/hdd access would really help the iMac user.

I really don't understand why Apple feels a hard drive with a mount system like the MP, a single railed system behind a plate, wouldn't work.

Open the access door, push a button and the drive is 'ejected' on rails. Change out the drive on the rails, slip it back in, replace plate. Drive connectors, data and power, are standard now. Oh well, pie in the sky. My iMac will go on Ebay as soon as the Mac Pros are announced IF they are a reasonable upgrade.
 
As Nanofrog said earlier, the Mac Pro's have only EVER been released with NEW Code Name CPUs.

New code name CPUs?

Ok, let me repeat again. Apple will release every year. If there are new CPUs, great, Apple will use them. If not, they'll do a revision anyway.

Heck, the 2007s, unless you got a quad core, shipped with the exact same processors as the previous revision.

The amount of spin here is crazy. Apple bases their release cycle on when Intel changes the code names of their CPUs? Please.

Q4 2011 is still this year. :p

I don't disagree. Apple has gotten early/first access to new CPUs before, if this custom CPU rumor doesn't pan out.

Of course the reason they get early access is because they pressure Intel because.... (and now repeat after me...)
 
New code name CPUs?

Ok, let me repeat again. Apple will release every year. If there are new CPUs, great, Apple will use them. If not, they'll do a revision anyway.

Heck, the 2007s, unless you got a quad core, shipped with the exact same processors as the previous revision.

Code names : Woodcrest, Beckton, Conroe, Penryn, Windsor (AMD), San Diego (AMD), Merom, etc...


What we seem to be arguing about is if Apple will speedbump the line or wait 2/3 months and use a new socket.

I am firmly in the camp for the latter.

It's a case of:

July/August: TB + ATi 6xxx GPUs + Speedbump + Re-design (maybe).
Late Q3/Q4: TB + ATi 6xxx GPUs + Sandybridge + Re-design (maybe).

There is pretty much no question the MP will be updated this year, just people won't get their hands on one in July or anytime before late Q3/Q4.
 
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