Supplies Mac Pro Constrained - New MacPro Coming??

[TheAnalogue]

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As Nanofrog said earlier, the Mac Pro's have only EVER been released with NEW Code Name CPUs.

New code name CPUs?

Ok, let me repeat again. Apple will release every year. If there are new CPUs, great, Apple will use them. If not, they'll do a revision anyway.

Heck, the 2007s, unless you got a quad core, shipped with the exact same processors as the previous revision.

The amount of spin here is crazy. Apple bases their release cycle on when Intel changes the code names of their CPUs? Please.

Q4 2011 is still this year.

I don't disagree. Apple has gotten early/first access to new CPUs before, if this custom CPU rumor doesn't pan out.

Of course the reason they get early access is because they pressure Intel because.... (and now repeat after me...)

You know what else happens once a year? ?

INTEL COMES OUT WITH NEW PROCESSORS. What a concept. So let's put 2 and 2 together.

Intel introduces new processors, and apple uses them. Yes apple could have a deal with intel to get them early. If Mac pros come out this summer that will be the case. The chances of apple introducing new Mac pros with out new processors, or with old processors is next to nothing

 

[goMac]

INTEL COMES OUT WITH NEW PROCESSORS. What a concept. So let's put 2 and 2 together.

So? There are newer Gulftowns right now. Why is it that people were saying Apple wouldn't do a rev for those?

Intel comes out with processors all the time, not just on a yearly basis. But again, Intel's processor schedule has no effect on that Apple revs their products once a year.

Isn't it funny that Apple needs to update the Mac Pro this year and there are rumors of a custom processor? It's almost like Apple said "Hey! Intel! We're releasing new Mac Pros this year like we always do and we need new processors! Make us something!"

But of course that would be impossible because Apple sticks exactly to whatever Xeon roadmap Intel has instead of their own internal yearly roadmap. I'm sure in since they aren't doing a Mac Pro this year they just sent the Mac Pro team down to Chucky Cheeses where they've been having a year long pizza party.

After all, it's been a quiet year. With Thunderbolt, new Final Cut Pro, Motion, and Lion, Apple knows Pro users are not in a buying mood this year.

Intel introduces new processors, and apple uses them. Yes apple could have a deal with intel to get them early. If Mac pros come out this summer that will be the case. The chances of apple introducing new Mac pros with out new processors, or with old processors is next to nothing

2007 revision. They continued selling Mac Pros with last revision processors.

 

[Umbongo]

So? There are newer Gulftowns right now. Why is it that people were saying Apple wouldn't do a rev for those?

Because there is no history of them doing that despite their being opportunities for it. Why on earth would Apple spend money to bring a system to market that has very small sales numbers and would be obsolete within 3 months?

You are entirely correct in that Apple have released new Mac Pro models each year, although the 2007 release was no different than the addition of the 3.33GHz quad core processor choice in December 2009 except that Apple gave it a new identifier.

I actually agree with you that if there weren't new processors coming out then Apple would probably have had a new Mac Pro this year using components that are out now, though they know far enough in advance that if that had been the case then I think they wouldn't have waited until August last year and the bump would have come in February or March this year when Intel updated the processors.

That isn't the situation though. The situation is Apple haven't updated yet, a new processor platform that replaces the existing one is scheduled for Q4 and as such it makes complete sense to believe that the next Mac Pros will be released with LGA 2011 Xeons based.

What people were saying originally was "hey look they are scheduled for Q4, they are the most likely thing Apple will use, but just be aware that last time Apple waited 5 months, they don't do system releases in December, last time there was a Q4 release it wasn't until January when workstation vendors were shipping so it could be 2012.

Saying "Apple release new Mac Pros every year so one will come in the next x months" is true, but not as helpful.

 

[Robellyn]

New processor? An Opteron Valencia perhaps? (Apple/Intel contract expiring ... these new chips set for global launch in Q3 2011?)

I know, I know ... not possible (Thunderbolt is the least of these reasons), But it would explain some things!

 

[goMac]

Because there is no history of them doing that despite their being opportunities for it. Why on earth would Apple spend money to bring a system to market that has very small sales numbers and would be obsolete within 3 months?

Because Xeon volumes probably won't ramp up until a few months after release, and that's assuming it releases on time.

Apple has done as short as 6 month cycles on computers (and shorter in some cases). A late summer 2011 followed by an early/mid summer 2012 model would fit with pervious behavior.

I actually agree with you that if there weren't new processors coming out then Apple would probably have had a new Mac Pro this year using components that are out now, though they know far enough in advance that if that had been the case then I think they wouldn't have waited until August last year and the bump would have come in February or March this year when Intel updated the processors.

Apple doesn't necessarily care about users getting outdated right away. But they know there is likely a segment of pro users waiting for Thunderbolt, and the longer they wait on shipping an upgrade, the more annoyed those users are going to be, and the less Thunderbolt is going to be adopted.

Previous patterns also point to new hardware revisions around Final Cut Pro releases (Thunderbolt entirely aside.) If you look at Apple historically, the evidence is practically screaming that a Mac Pro upgrade is inbound.

That isn't the situation though. The situation is Apple haven't updated yet, a new processor platform that replaces the existing one is scheduled for Q4 and as such it makes complete sense to believe that the next Mac Pros will be released with LGA 2011 Xeons based.

If the processors ship on time and in volume, which traditionally has never happened. Usually Apple waits at least a few months after processor release, if not more.

What people were saying originally was "hey look they are scheduled for Q4, they are the most likely thing Apple will use, but just be aware that last time Apple waited 5 months, they don't do system releases in December, last time there was a Q4 release it wasn't until January when workstation vendors were shipping so it could be 2012.

I'm not sure this argument ever made sense. I agree that Q4 is unlikely (but not impossible) for a Mac Pro launch, but that automatically assumed Q3 was also not an option. In fact, if we were going to assume that a new Mac Pro was coming Q1 or Q2 2012, Q3 2011 would be an even safer bet because it spaces out the revisions a little better.

Saying "Apple release new Mac Pros every year so one will come in the next x months" is true, but not as helpful.

It is when it's in context of people saying there would be no Mac Pro revision this year, which is not typical Apple behavior. I think people are confused because they came on after the Intel transition, so they think it's somehow linked to Intel chips. I've been following Apple upgrade cycles for 15 years, and it has nothing to do with the processors. If anything, Apple will force the processor vendors to release new chips every year for their timeline (which IBM and Motorola consistently complained very publicly about.)

 

[sbb155]

very wise, people like nan*** for example, spread that there wont be processors so there wont be a mac pro (a few weeks ago stated in several threads)
actually, if you look back several years, there is no correlation between timing of processors. Apple upgrades the line every year usually. Processors come out all the time, and there are several now

 

[TheAnalogue]

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INTEL COMES OUT WITH NEW PROCESSORS. What a concept. So let's put 2 and 2 together.

So? There are newer Gulftowns right now. Why is it that people were saying Apple wouldn't do a rev for those?

Intel comes out with processors all the time, not just on a yearly basis. But again, Intel's processor schedule has no effect on that Apple revs their products once a year.

Isn't it funny that Apple needs to update the Mac Pro this year and there are rumors of a custom processor? It's almost like Apple said "Hey! Intel! We're releasing new Mac Pros this year like we always do and we need new processors! Make us something!"

But of course that would be impossible because Apple sticks exactly to whatever Xeon roadmap Intel has instead of their own internal yearly roadmap. I'm sure in since they aren't doing a Mac Pro this year they just sent the Mac Pro team down to Chucky Cheeses where they've been having a year long pizza party.

After all, it's been a quiet year. With Thunderbolt, new Final Cut Pro, Motion, and Lion, Apple knows Pro users are not in a buying mood this year.

Intel introduces new processors, and apple uses them. Yes apple could have a deal with intel to get them early. If Mac pros come out this summer that will be the case. The chances of apple introducing new Mac pros with out new processors, or with old processors is next to nothing

2007 revision. They continued selling Mac Pros with last revision processors.

Do o have to quote myself? I already posted in this thread about this, a 0.133GHz speed increase isn't even noticeable, I'll use the same analogy, if you had a car with a 600 horse power engine, would you sell it to get the exact same car but with better speakers and a 610 horse power engine? The answer is no. A processor upgrade isn't worth it unless there is a 10% increase in processing power.

I fully expect a 2011 Mac pro, maybe even in July/August. But I know one thing Apple isn't stupid. They won't use the same CPU generation when if they wait a few months (still in 2011 thus a 2011 Mac Pro) they have the latest and greatest. Plus if you think about it, they might get new intel processors early. But the closer to the actual launch date the more likely.


Can we all agree that none of us know anything for sure? I mean really NONE OF US DO. so let's try to be civil. I love a good debate, but there needs to be a line, and some of us have crossed it.

 

[sbb155]

They can't even update that often if there's no parts. So they're stuck dealing with Intel's schedules just like everyone else.

Unfortunately, the Xeons are getting more and more complex, so it's taking longer to develop than it did a few years ago (to be expected IMO though when in 3 years they've gone from 771 pins to 2011 pins).

amazing how wrong the speculation has been... MPs are coming contrary to 'experts' beliefs a month ago

 

[Mike Biggen]

amazing how wrong the speculation has been... MPs are coming contrary to 'experts' beliefs a month ago

Until new Sandy Bridge Mac Pros are actually released, the speculation isn't actually wrong. I hope they do release them this week because I plan to buy one as long as it meets my criteria (Sandy Bridge, 6Gbps SATA, etc). Rumours have been wrong many times before, so don't go jumping the gun just yet.

 

[goMac]

amazing how wrong the speculation has been... MPs are coming contrary to 'experts' beliefs a month ago

No, next is the debate on if the new Mac Pros will really count as a revision.

If they don't adopt a new processor model, I expect said debate will be long and arduous.

 

[Inconsequential]

amazing how wrong the speculation has been... MPs are coming contrary to 'experts' beliefs a month ago

That is just that. Speculation.

Rumours vs. Intel roadmap.

Either way I have the money for a SB ready so i'm not bothered.

 

[zephonic]

Because there is no history of them doing that despite their being opportunities for it. Why on earth would Apple spend money to bring a system to market that has very small sales numbers and would be obsolete within 3 months?

I'm not convinced new MacPros are due this week (although I do hope they are), but Apple did do a mid-cycle upgrade for the 2006 MacPro when the first quadcore Clovertowns became available.

From a marketing POV, I can see why they would want a new MacPro with the introduction of Lion as the whole range has been updated and it would look lame if the MacPro was not.

So it is conceivable that a new design, ThB, SATA3, better GPU and current Westmeres are considered enough to justify a new model now, with quiet upgrades to LGA2011 when they become available.

Or maybe Apple is gonna pull a rabbit out of the hat...

 

[Umbongo]

I'm not convinced new MacPros are due this week (although I do hope they are), but Apple did do a mid-cycle upgrade for the 2006 MacPro when the first quadcore Clovertowns became available.

They added a single processor choice which they did this in December 09 too. Wasn't anything more than that.

From a marketing POV, I can see why they would want a new MacPro with the introduction of Lion as the whole range has been updated and it would look lame if the MacPro was not.

So it is conceivable that a new design, ThB, SATA3, better GPU and current Westmeres are considered enough to justify a new model now, with quiet upgrades to LGA2011 when they become available.

Or maybe Apple is gonna pull a rabbit out of the hat...

For the audience of the Mac Pro I don't think that would be good marketing to update with a processor line that is going to be obsolete within a few months. I also don't think that there is any need for Apple to get Mac Pros out as soon as possible, they showed that with the 2010 models when they came out a long time after all the components they use. Mac Pros have also come a long time after OS releases. It is the one area where I expect the majority of buyers (as it is in the PC workstation arena) are more clued up on hardware because they are buying it for productivity rather than play and that product life-cycles of over 12 months are expected.

Apple getting LGA 2011 processors early seems far more likely to me than them designing new logic boards (for TB) to use old processors.

 

[IceMacMac]

For the audience of the Mac Pro I don't think that would be good marketing to update with a processor line that is going to be obsolete within a few months. I also don't think that there is any need for Apple to get Mac Pros out as soon as possible, they showed that with the 2010 models when they came out a long time after all the components they use. Mac Pros have also come a long time after OS releases. It is the one area where I expect the majority of buyers (as it is in the PC workstation arena) are more clued up on hardware because they are buying it for productivity rather than play and that product life-cycles of over 12 months are expected.

Apple getting LGA 2011 processors early seems far more likely to me than them designing new logic boards (for TB) to use old processors.

Good thinking, Umbongo. A premature Mac Pro, crippled by a lesser processor when much more powerful Intel goodies are less than 6 months away?

That would make pro users less than happy, and far more reluctant. It just doesn't seem like Job's style. Apple seems like the most patient tech company in the world.

So unless we see Intel surprise us with an accelerated release...I'm dubious Apple pushes the MacPro out the door.

 

[goMac]

Good thinking, Umbongo. A premature Mac Pro, crippled by a lesser processor when much more powerful Intel goodies are less than 6 months away?

That would make pro users less than happy, and far more reluctant. It just doesn't seem like Job's style. Apple seems like the most patient tech company in the world.

Apple's done it before on the pro line... And yes it made users unhappy. And no Apple didn't care.

A year, six months, what does it matter? Eventually the machine is going to get updated.

 

[nanofrog]

So unless we see Intel surprise us with an accelerated release...I'm dubious Apple pushes the MacPro out the door.

Unfortunately, SB-E5 started with a Q3 2011 release, was pushed back to Q4 2011, and now there's recent information it's to be postponed again to Q1 2012 for SB-E5.

Given past history of Apple getting chips from Intel early, the dates show a single quarter, not 2. So 6 months early seems extremely unlikely.

Apple's done it before on the pro line... And yes it made users unhappy. And no Apple didn't care.

I nor have others said another socket isn't possible, but it would mean that the MP is changing to a different machine (becomes an SP model only for example).

The problem with this however, is it's quite a step backwards in terms of performance (i.e. LGA1155 based). Particularly in the case of PCIe lanes (SB-E3 only has 20 usable lanes vs. 36 in current systems). Core counts could be an issue as well for some users, particularly as they currently offer a 12 core system.

As expansion is one of the main features that sets it apart from other models, dropping to a 20 lane design via SB-E3 seems a mistake.

A year, six months, what does it matter? Eventually the machine is going to get updated.

Seems quite a change from just a couple of days ago.

The MP, at least for the moment, would make better sense if it's based on the SB-E5.

But as mentioned before, the information available on Intel and the LGA2011 parts, indicates it will take some time (figure ~ 6 months if Intel is on time for Q4 2011, and gets Apple enough parts to begin manufacturing 1Q earlier than other vendors). March or so is realistic if not.

Say by the time Haswell rolls around, that could be used in either the iMac or a tower (enough lanes for I/O and cores on a single die) that an SP only model could be possible for a larger number of users (what I've said before), and not require an arm + leg + first born.

Where the iMac came in, was consider it's current market + former MP users that could benefit from such a system (many would in terms of the core count) - the combined sales volume would make such a system less expensive to produce due to the increased economy of scale.

Now some will differ on this, and that's fine, as it's a discussion. But the concept behind it seems reinforced when considering the focus Apple is giving to their consumer products vs. the enterprise market (iDevices in particular).

It may just be a lull, but the current evidence doesn't support this from my or others' perspective. And since their professional software is not tied to a particular system, such as the MP, that can at the very least open the possibility there will be a shift in how the systems are positioned in a few years time (i.e. when Haswell rolls around).

 

[zephonic]

No cigars, apparently:

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/1...-and-white-macbook-part-numbers-not-mac-pros/

 

[philipma1957]

so my oct prediction is still good to go for a new pro! I was hoping to get a new mini so I actually prefer the mistake!

 

[Inconsequential]

No cigars, apparently:

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/07/1...-and-white-macbook-part-numbers-not-mac-pros/

Hah.

Knew it wasn't going to happen

Q4 it is then, good times.

 

[mdgm]

so my oct prediction is still good to go for a new pro!

You could be right

I was hoping to get a new mini so I actually prefer the mistake!

+1. As much as I'd like to get a Mac Pro, getting a new Mini would be far more affordable. I just can't justify buying a 2010 Mini at current prices when the 2010 Mini is mostly inferior to my late 2009 one. Then again, I expect the Mini update won't be as good as I'd like and I'll continue to want a new Mac Pro.

 

[xgman]

Hah.

Knew it wasn't going to happen

Q4 it is then, good times.

I know it has to do with Intel's schedule, but we are always dead last for the newer technology and updates. Getting tired of that.

 

[telequest]

[snip]
I nor have others said another socket isn't possible, but it would mean that the MP is changing to a different machine (becomes an SP model only for example).

[snip]
Now some will differ on this, and that's fine, as it's a discussion. But the concept behind it seems reinforced when considering the focus Apple is giving to their consumer products vs. the enterprise market (iDevices in particular).

It may just be a lull, but the current evidence doesn't support this from my or others' perspective. And since their professional software is not tied to a particular system, such as the MP, that can at the very least open the possibility there will be a shift in how the systems are positioned in a few years time (i.e. when Haswell rolls around).

I'm not sure how directly Apple's philosophy on pro software applies to pro hardware, but their recent actions regarding Final Cut Pro are a worrisome model for Mac Pro users. With FCP 7 they had a mature industry-leading product and an avid base of users whose businesses depended on it. Yet Apple had no qualms about canceling FCP 7 and replacing it with a much more consumer-oriented product (FCP X) despite the predictable outrage from these users.

If Apple decides it can make more money from killing or greatly modifying (i.e. dumbing down) the Mac Pro, there's not stopping them. I'm not saying it's gonna happen soon, but the FCP X debacle is cause for concern.

 

[philipma1957]

You could be right

+1. As much as I'd like to get a Mac Pro, getting a new Mini would be far more affordable. I just can't justify buying a 2010 Mini at current prices when the 2010 Mini is mostly inferior to my late 2009 one. Then again, I expect the Mini update won't be as good as I'd like and I'll continue to want a new Mac Pro.

I have about 1400 in gift cards that will get me a new mini not a new pro. Maybe with a t-bolt external. I would like to get the lacie t-bolt with hdds in it pull them out and put my own ssd's into it.

http://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10549



While I would love to get a new pro and do a quad cpu to an oct cpu upgrade thread I would need to sell the quad to hex 2010 pro to afford to do it. I think waiting until oct is better for that.

 

[Umbongo]

I know it has to do with Intel's schedule, but we are always dead last for the newer technology and updates. Getting tired of that.

I replied t you somewhere else, maybe you didn't see it. But always last to get what exactly? They were first to get Core 2, Penryn, Nehalem, Westmere.

 

[Inconsequential]

I know it has to do with Intel's schedule, but we are always dead last for the newer technology and updates. Getting tired of that.

As the guy above me said, Apple on a few occasions has had things first.

Besides, the Mac Pro is a pro machine.

Enthusiasts want the best as fast as possible, pro users, don't really care.

I'm in the middle because being an enthusiast I want faster, but I also want it to work, perfectly, out of the box. The latter takes time and I'm all for it.