Surely Apple has employees who read these forums...

[iMcLovin]

Matt Casebolt and Chris Lattner does not sound good for Macs.https://9to5mac.com/2017/01/11/matt-casebolt-touchbar-macbook/

Nope that can't be good. But honestly it feels like the entire Mac development in apple has gone bonkers. And obviously they must have some big problems internally. I believe it's a result of many thing. Perhaps a management that doesn't care much of the devices that earns little money for the company and a design team bored of designing the same computers over and over and bored engineers that want to do something new.

Nonetheless, it's all really bad for the users. And I would think for apple as a company too. I don't understand that the company can't get into their heads that even if the macs earn little money compared to the iphones, but without them they will eventually go into pitfall. When the iPod took off, they didn't stop making computers.... for a good reason. Seems the current apple has forgotten their roots.

Oh well I have moved on. Also checking this forum less and less now. I'm never buying a Mac again. Their future is too risky and with too little information from apple. Just superlatives and empty words from Tim Cook....and touch bar is not the future of macs, nothing we need and for once an idea I think not even the other computer manufacturers will emulate.

 

[Crosscreek]

Oh well I have moved on. Also checking this forum less and less now. I'm never buying a Mac again. Their future is too risky and with too little information from apple. Just superlatives and empty words from Tim Cook....and touch bar is not the future of macs, nothing we need and for once an idea I think not even the other computer manufacturers will emulate.

Even tho I have built a hack I rely less on macOS and use my Windows 10 and Linux partitions most of the time.

Apple is now an IOS company and where most of the profits come from and macOS is their legacy OS with little more than maintenance coarse.

 

[CWallace]

Nope that can't be good. But honestly it feels like the entire Mac development in apple has gone bonkers. And obviously they must have some big problems internally. I believe it's a result of many thing. Perhaps a management that doesn't care much of the devices that earns little money for the company and a design team bored of designing the same computers over and over and bored engineers that want to do something new.

Macs still bring in over $20 billion in revenue a year. Sure, iPhone does that a quarter, but it's still serious money and a few billion more than what iPad has been doing over the same period. And since you can't develop for iPhone without using a Mac...

And if Jony Ive and company were bored with Mac, we would not have seen a new MBP - something they were clearly working on for some time based on leaks.

 

[iMcLovin]

Macs still bring in over $20 billion in revenue a year. Sure, iPhone does that a quarter, but it's still serious money and a few billion more than what iPad has been doing over the same period. And since you can't develop for iPhone without using a Mac...

And if Jony Ive and company were bored with Mac, we would not have seen a new MBP - something they were clearly working on for some time based on leaks.

Well to me that MacBook Pro seemed pretty uninspired and unmotivated. Maybe that's just me though. BUt going ONLY usb C and the touch bar seemed like ideas that only provokes change without actually be user friendly, so not as thought through and considered as the usual Apple we knew. And after 4 years of almost nothing on the Mac front, it felt more like something they had to release rather something they truly believed in.

 

[CWallace]

Well to me that MacBook Pro seemed pretty uninspired and unmotivated. Maybe that's just me though. BUt going ONLY usb C and the touch bar seemed like ideas that only provokes change without actually be user friendly, so not as thought through and considered as the usual Apple we knew. And after 4 years of almost nothing on the Mac front, it felt more like something they had to release rather something they truly believed in.

USB-C is the future. I'm confident that within a year we'll see Windows PCs with only USB-C and nobody will raise an eyebrow just as nobody raised an eyebrow over the rumor of Samsung dropping the headphone jack from the Galaxy S8 while everyone and their mother lost their minds when Apple did so with the iPhone 7. As they say, "You Can Recognize A Pioneer By The Arrows In His Back".

As to the TouchBar, that required a significant amount of engineering work and is something Apple worked on for years before it was ready. So they very much believe in it and it was very much not an afterthought.

 

[iMcLovin]

USB-C is the future. I'm confident that within a year we'll see Windows PCs with only USB-C and nobody will raise an eyebrow just as nobody raised an eyebrow over the rumor of Samsung dropping the headphone jack from the Galaxy S8 while everyone and their mother lost their minds when Apple did so with the iPhone 7. As they say, "You Can Recognize A Pioneer By The Arrows In His Back".

As to the TouchBar, that required a significant amount of engineering work and is something Apple worked on for years before it was ready. So they very much believe in it and it was very much not an afterthought.

Well I tend to disagree, but that's my personal opinion. USB c is the future yes just the way thunderbolt 1 and two were. But no company decided for it to be the only port in their machine. And even if USB c has greater potential and can be used for a lot more it still makes the machine less user friendly to only have that (and nobody knows if it will be THE new standard, though apple wants it to be). And also quite tedious to carry around a ton of dongles. In addition, the iPhone has lighting ports which creates a complete mess to the whole setup imo. Even if it would have made the machine less streamlined I think a lot of people would have appreciated at least one USB 3 slot or 2, it would have made the whole thing a lot easier to connect your phone, USB drive or whatever. Actually nobody will have the need to connect 4 USB c devices before this machine is outdated any way. So it's just stupid arrogance from apple in my opinion.

As for the touch bar, probably yes it's been designed thoroughly, I agree. But for what purpose? What exactly will it accomplish? I don't see any serious work where it will actually increase efficiency. Except when typing smilies. For photoshop or fcpx or any other program, no serious professional work without a mouse and keyboard anyway, and reaching those few extra options you get on the touch bar won't be any easier than doing it with a simple keystroke or your mouse. So to me it seems more like apple so desperately wants to stick with the idea they had 5-6 years ago that no work laptop would benefit from a touchscreen, so they are vigorously trying to find other solutions... but in the process forgot to re-visit that idea or look to competitors. If OS X would be optimized for touch, would you still prefer a touch bar than a touch screen and it being a drawing tablet as well? To me the touch bar seems like the most pointless invention coming from apple for a long while, and I have yet to be proven otherwise. And for this reason apple has changed from what is was, were every feature served a purpose, if not, it wasn't present.

 

[aaronhead14]

The thing that ticks me off the most is that Apple knows creative professionals rely on the Mac Pro, yet they're leaving us in the dark anyway. The future is going to be pretty bleak for you, Apple, if you really think we can do our job on iPads, iMacs and laptops! (Hint: we can't!)
What's Apple going to do when they start producing more original television content? Hire post-production facilities that use Windows and Linux? Because that's what they're going to have to start doing unless they freaking update the Mac Pro already.

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

It is a bit ridiculous.

I have a small production company, cutting on Avid and using Adobe for graphics purposes.

There would be little financial penalty for moving to PC, the main thing holding me back is the learning curve on the IT side of things. Programs like Aftereffects would actually benefit hugely from PC/Nvidia performance-wise.

I have no problem with the design concept of the nMP either, all my storage is on a seperate RAID, as is I/O. So I quite like it. Mind you I wouldn't care if it was a tower either.

But with little clarity about whether the professional side of Apple is going to see much development, I may take the leap to a Dell this year.

Shame, I love the design of Apple machines, they look great in the office. It would be nice to see some assurances that the gear I do have will be supported.


If I make this leap, I may also reassess my iPhone.

 

[Blair Paulsen]

If there is one theme that repeats on these forums it's the deep frustration of pros/power users that Apple has left us out in the cold. Whatever the reasons are, many of just can't imagine why a company with an established user base and plenty of resources wouldn't keep building proper workstations - even if it represented a small fraction of their sales - as long as it turned a profit. Most businesses, even if they have flashy new product lines, don't abandon a market segment they've spent years acquiring unless they lack the organizational wherewithal to do both simultaneously.

Assuming a $500 billion corporation could easily keep more than one ball in the air at a time, why gift the workstation market to other players? It's one thing to say that there is no point slugging it out with Dell/HP/Lenovo/etc in the low-mid range desktop market with it's razor thin margins. OTOH, workstation performance with an elegant OS/GUI (U/X) that appeals to artists/media pros/etc does have a viable niche. What gives?

 

[aaronhead14]

If there is one theme that repeats on these forums it's the deep frustration of pros/power users that Apple has left us out in the cold. Whatever the reasons are, many of just can't imagine why a company with an established user base and plenty of resources wouldn't keep building proper workstations - even if it represented a small fraction of their sales - as long as it turned a profit. Most businesses, even if they have flashy new product lines, don't abandon a market segment they've spent years acquiring unless they lack the organizational wherewithal to do both simultaneously.

Assuming a $500 billion corporation could easily keep more than one ball in the air at a time, why gift the workstation market to other players? It's one thing to say that there is no point slugging it out with Dell/HP/Lenovo/etc in the low-mid range desktop market with it's razor thin margins. OTOH, workstation performance with an elegant OS/GUI (U/X) that appeals to artists/media pros/etc does have a viable niche. What gives?

The thing that's so backwards though is lately Apple has had an enormous interest in producing its own original TV shows. It's ironic, but Apple is going to be forced to hire filmmakers who use Windows or Linux, because of the lack of Mac Pro updates. It's so dumb and ironic. Almost no post houses are using Macs anymore because of Apple's lack of updates. But if they'd just release a new Mac Pro then that would fix all the problems!

 

[Blair Paulsen]

I often wonder what the real scope of the audio/video production/post market is. Let's assume that there are plenty of affordable options for editing compressed HD video with basic transitions/titles. How many editors/VFX artists/3D artists/colorists/finishers are out there who need workstation level hardware? FWIW, even the outdated nMP 6,1 can run FinalCutProX quite well.

If Apple released a proper workstation in 2017 that ran OS X with horsepower to burn at $8,000 well specced, how many could they potentially sell? Even with the improvements in Windows as of version 10, a lot of the people I work with would happily return to the Mac for OS X and ProRes if given a valid option.

Bottom line - are content creators and power users who prefer OS X enough of a market to entice the Apple of 2017? Or would it still represent a "rounding error" in proportion to the iOS device bonanza?

 

[itdk92]

Just make Federighi CEO already. It's the only one who seem to care about the Mac.

Even Shiller seems to have totally lost his way, after I that comment/tweet about the (lack of) 32Gb RAM on the '16 MacBook...

 

[Barry Bishop]

It is a bit ridiculous.

If I make this leap, I may also reassess my iPhone.

I am in the same boat, minus I know the PC variants. Apple has 2017 to win me over, than I'm leaving, as well as IOS. I've got a Mac Pro and the new MacBook Pro as well as three other mac laptops. We are a mac house, but I will convert us if I don't start seeing computers designed around my needs. I ended up switching from my iPhone Plus to going back to the old iPhone 5 and have been loving it. I am starting to see what Apple is doing to it's customer base and I am not okay with it. I will show my disappointment by not buying Apple products. 2017 is your year to salvage our relationship.

 

[Blair Paulsen]

I am in the same boat, minus I know the PC variants. Apple has 2017 to win me over, than I'm leaving, as well as IOS. I've got a Mac Pro and the new MacBook Pro as well as three other mac laptops. We are a mac house, but I will convert us if I don't start seeing computers designed around my needs. I ended up switching from my iPhone Plus to going back to the old iPhone 5 and have been loving it. I am starting to see what Apple is doing to it's customer base and I am not okay with it. I will show my disappointment by not buying Apple products. 2017 is your year to salvage our relationship.

Hear, hear! For the short term I'm only buying storage devices that support TB2 or better AND USB3.1 SS so I can keep rolling my cMP 5,1 12c via USB3 HBA (avoiding the internal SATAII choke) and quickly move to a TB2/3 interconnect if Apple decides to actually release a credible nnMP in 2017.

Like many of us, I'd happily embrace a return to a tower form factor for MacPros - but I find it hard to imagine Apple taking what would be perceived as a step backwards. Therefore I advocate a taller second gen cylinder that retains the heat chimney/big fan form factor - AND - can host 2 regulation size PCIe cards and M.2 flash, 750W PSU, CPU/MoBo that has plenty of PCIe3 lanes on package to properly support 4x TB3 ports - AND- other USB-TypeC devices discretely - AND - still has 32 lanes for the 2 internal cards.

The parts for such a beast should be available in quantity during 2017, but is Apple still in the workstation game at all???

 

[AidenShaw]

...but is Apple still in the workstation game at all???

No, Apple left that market in 2010.

 

[Dekema2]

NowI see why you all complain about the Mac Pro,

I just downloaded the demo version of "X-Plane 11." I have been either trying or buying X-Plane since Version 9, and every time I use it, it fails miserably.

X-Plane 9 on 2010 Mac Mini: Okay on average graphics settings, but flops when the pressure is on.

X-Plane 10 on 2010 Mac Mini: Same settings are needed, slower performance.

X-Plane 11 on 2014 Retina Macbook "Pro:" All graphics settings need to be set to low. And even then I still get 10 FPS!!!!

Didn't want to say this, but I have been buying Apple products for almost a decade now. The first was an iPod nano back in 2007 or 08 for my dad for Father's Day. If they decide to phase out the computer market, I will never buy from them again. They are very arrogant when it calls to slapping the "pro" label on it's products, but when you put it next to a homemade PC it'll be like putting a clydesdale up to race against a pony.

Apple, you should be ashamed of yourself. Greed will get you nowhere, and that's what this is all about at the end of the day. Worst graphics card in the best computers, why??? There's nothing "pro" about that at all when you can buy something cheaper to do more, even if it is ugly.

WHat a joke!!!

View attachment 680570 View attachment 680571 View attachment 680572

After thinking about it for a couple of months, I've just decided to build my own mid tower anyways. I need Mastercam for school, can't do that on the rMBP. I want to use AutoCAD without the silly ribbons, can't do that. I don't like being attached to a while all the time for power. But I don't want to pay a ton of money for a PC either. So I'm going in the $850-875 range and using part of my tax refund to buy the components.

Of course my rMBP will still be used for most things like productivity, browsing the web and the video editing I tend to do. I can't take Microcrap off of my desk to bring to school, but it'll be more powerful at home than as a laptop. With the Ryzen and Vega news dropping every day, it makes the idea of building one at this stage much more appealing.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: Kingston Savage 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($63.98 @ PCM)
Storage: ADATA XPG SX8000 512GB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($219.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: PNY GeForce GT 710 1GB Video Card ($29.89 @ Jet)
Case: Phanteks ECLIPSE P400S TEMPERED GLASS ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: be quiet! 500W 80+ Gold Certified ATX Power Supply ($64.90)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($9.99)
Wireless Network Adapter: Gigabyte GC-WB867D-I PCI-Express x1 802.11a/b/g/n/ac Wi-Fi Adapter ($29.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Other: AMD Ryzen 5 1600x ($260.00)
Other: MSI B350 Tomahawk ($110.00)
Total: $878.73
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2017-02-21 21:56 EST-0500

 

[Blair Paulsen]

No, Apple left that market in 2010.

Can't argue that.

 

[nerdynerdynerdy]

I often wonder what the real scope of the audio/video production/post market is. Let's assume that there are plenty of affordable options for editing compressed HD video with basic transitions/titles. How many editors/VFX artists/3D artists/colorists/finishers are out there who need workstation level hardware? FWIW, even the outdated nMP 6,1 can run FinalCutProX quite well.

I've actually noticed an increase in mac-based Avids around the industry. A maxed out iMac does offline editing at HD res quite well.

But things like rendering and exporting are relatively slow, and I think they're quicker on PC.

It's mainly in the colourist/motion graphics department, particularly 4K where some more grunt is needed.

Pretty much all the big post places run Avid, nobody's really that keen on FCP as far as I can tell.

 

[MH01]

USB-C is the future. I'm confident that within a year we'll see Windows PCs with only USB-C and nobody will raise an eyebrow just as nobody raised an eyebrow over the rumor of Samsung dropping the headphone jack from the Galaxy S8 while everyone and their mother lost their minds when Apple did so with the iPhone 7. As they say, "You Can Recognize A Pioneer By The Arrows In His Back".

As to the TouchBar, that required a significant amount of engineering work and is something Apple worked on for years before it was ready. So they very much believe in it and it was very much not an afterthought.

USB-C only PC will not exist within a year, the just released kaby lake hardware is finally getting USB-C support and that tends to be one port, full replacement maybe 3-5 years, the USB-B Is far too popular and most devices still sold are not USB-C, USB-C Is actually such a minor player at the moment. In time yes it's the future, but will be slow.

 

[Chancha]

I've actually noticed an increase in mac-based Avids around the industry. A maxed out iMac does offline editing at HD res quite well.

But things like rendering and exporting are relatively slow, and I think they're quicker on PC.

It's mainly in the colourist/motion graphics department, particularly 4K where some more grunt is needed.

Pretty much all the big post places run Avid, nobody's really that keen on FCP as far as I can tell.

Final Cut ever since FCPX is apparently gearing itself towards the prosumer or web-based content creators crowd. With all due respect as to how much value these guys offer to culture overall, but they ultimately have different criteria in how to use and what to find in a computer, and by definition they are less "pro" as a tool user because they ask for less in a tool. The core problem is that Apple used to offer line ups of machines which were either flexible or powerful enough to encapsulate different needs from smaller segments of "creative industries". Whereas lately Apple chose to streamline their products into a much clearer and narrowly defined use case that inclines to the youtuber target audience.

 

[niploteksi]

Well to me that MacBook Pro seemed pretty uninspired and unmotivated. Maybe that's just me though. BUt going ONLY usb C and the touch bar seemed like ideas that only provokes change without actually be user friendly, so not as thought through and considered as the usual Apple we knew. And after 4 years of almost nothing on the Mac front, it felt more like something they had to release rather something they truly believed in.

I sometimes get the feeling that the new Macbook Pro is a desperate attempt to innovate just because "it's that time in the cycle". In my opinion they would have been better off just bumping specs, pressing prices and getting the line up in order. It's possible to on making better or new software instead of just squishing stuff into a thinner package. I'm not totally dismissing the idea of touch bars or smart keyboards, but I don't think this implementation of a, adaptable interface was thought through.

The reasons for not buying Apple merchandise rapidly increases.

 

[richinaus]

It is a bit ridiculous.

I have a small production company, cutting on Avid and using Adobe for graphics purposes.

There would be little financial penalty for moving to PC, the main thing holding me back is the learning curve on the IT side of things. Programs like Aftereffects would actually benefit hugely from PC/Nvidia performance-wise.

I have no problem with the design concept of the nMP either, all my storage is on a seperate RAID, as is I/O. So I quite like it. Mind you I wouldn't care if it was a tower either.

But with little clarity about whether the professional side of Apple is going to see much development, I may take the leap to a Dell this year.

Shame, I love the design of Apple machines, they look great in the office. It would be nice to see some assurances that the gear I do have will be supported.


If I make this leap, I may also reassess my iPhone.

In a similar boat and not really a huge deal to move over. All my main apps work on Windows anyway, so is easy.
I am not entirely sure what Apples game is, as it is actually quite simple to drop it all. MS are certainly looking more attractive as time goes by.

 

[Chancha]

I sometimes get the feeling that the new Macbook Pro is a desperate attempt to innovate just because "it's that time in the cycle". In my opinion they would have been better off just bumping specs, pressing prices and getting the line up in order. It's possible to on making better or new software instead of just squishing stuff into a thinner package. I'm not totally dismissing the idea of touch bars or smart keyboards, but I don't think this implementation of a, adaptable interface was thought through.

The reasons for not buying Apple merchandise rapidly increases.

The touch bar is such an half-arsed concept that come with an expense of losing tactile function keys, adding hardware cost, creating software bugs, without offering even tangible increase in productivity in a comprehensive manner. I am always very curious as to what other prototypes that this design actually ended up winning over, I find it very hard to believe that Apple's ensemble of engineers couldn't come up with something better.

 

[niploteksi]

I am always very curious as to what other prototypes that this design actually ended up winning over, I find it very hard to believe that Apple's ensemble of engineers couldn't come up with something better.

Maybe in terms of development this was the least silly and costly way of doing something "new". It also only takes one or two people in an authoritarian system to make something "a great idea".

 

[Chancha]

In a similar boat and not really a huge deal to move over. All my main apps work on Windows anyway, so is easy.
I am not entirely sure what Apples game is, as it is actually quite simple to drop it all. MS are certainly looking more attractive as time goes by.

Apple is clearly not interested in investing too much further on Macs, at least not in a form that appeals to traditional workstation users or even heavy duty laptop users. But they can't vocally admit their departure from this market segment since there are still professionals who may be lucky to find the newer Apple products do fill in their workflows nicely, for better or worse.

MS on the other hand is trying hard to catch back up all the lost ground during the Ballmer days. I don't think they ultimately are too focused on creative pros segment, but as a start it is a nice ground to base on their Surface line up since there is an apparent void left open by Apple not caring, and this crowd was first attracted to Apple in the first place by the seamless marriage between OS and hardware which MS is trying to push now.